"progression of climbing is from aid into free climbs"

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 21 - 40 of total 46 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2016 - 10:13pm PT

1pitch or more, no matter.

Kevin, what does this mean? Can you flesh out what drives this or what the basis is for it?

"Free climbing a route is always a superior accomplishment to aid climbing it."

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Feb 14, 2016 - 10:35pm PT

Climbing is about ascending. As climbers we use different method to go up. Crampons or axes, climbing shoes and so on. I think most will agree that the ascent is more enjoyable and requires much more skill if a climber is able to use his or her body in order to make upward progress. In an efficient way, without the use of devices that make the experience seem like engineering the way up, rather than climbing the way up. Much more training and skill is required.

Synchronicity

Trad climber

British Columbia, Canada

Feb 14, 2016 - 11:38pm PT

Kevin,

There's a few examples of aid climbs being retro bolted and then passed on from one generation to another of free climbers who can't free climb the route.

In the mean time, someone dangling on a rope screaming, is more sacred than someone standing in slings, grunting.

Jim pretty much nailed my point (pun intended)

Some great shorter aid climbs that see regular ascents, climbs that have interesting and varied tricky placements, are all of a sudden having fixed pins pulled, hooking flakes pried off, bolts added, and overall character completely changed just to create another mediocre 1 star 5.13 that few people ever bother to climb.

Sure, climbing as much free as possible before resorting to aid is the goal, and seeing classic old big walls go free is mega inspiring, especially when they are able to preserve the existing charcter of the climb, however, this idea that somehow any given pitch holds more "value" if it would just.... go.... free... seems pretty much like the next big "So what?" to me....

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Feb 15, 2016 - 12:52am PT

real climbers drop nuts and sink fingers, dughhhh

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Feb 15, 2016 - 05:42am PT

To each his own. Personally, I find free climbing to be INFINETLY more pleausurable than aid.

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Feb 15, 2016 - 07:16am PT

An aid route that is onsight free soloed should be renamed immediately and documented, just in case the next FFSO doesn't go well.

Tweeting may be the most progressive way to do this. Since I may not be the most progressive guy on the forum I will look up the definition of tweeting.

tweet
twēt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: tweeting
1.
make a chirping noise.
"the birds were tweeting in the branches"
2.
make a posting on the social media website Twitter.
"she talks about her own life, but she's just as likely to tweet about budget cuts and Keynesian economics"

and

[tweet]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
a weak chirping sound, as of a young or small bird.
2.
Digital Technology. a message posted on the Twitter social-media service and website: the message may include text, links, photos, or videos.
verb (used without object)
3.
to make a weak chirping sound.
4.
Digital Technology. to post a message on Twitter:
She tweets a lot about movies.
verb (used with object)
5.
Digital Technology. to post (a message) on Twitter for (people) to read:
He tweeted his fans after the event.

Oh my

Urban Dictionary
TOP DEFINITION
tweeting
(v.) To suck your own c*#k
Sean: "Hey Kevin, did you know there is no word for sucking your own c*#k?"

Kevin: "Nah bro, it's called tweeting"

So much for progression.

Oplopanax

Mountain climber

The Deep Woods

Feb 15, 2016 - 09:49am PT

every successful aid climb is a failure to free climb

aid climbing may be enjoyable, but so's masturbating, if you do it right

how many out there truly prefer masturbation to sex?

Reeotch

climber

4 Corners Area

Feb 15, 2016 - 12:56pm PT

So, What's Moonlight buttress looking like these days?

I was quite amazed that Lunar Ecstacy got freed. Not to take anything away from the FFA, but I doubt that line could have been freed in its original condition. I'm not even sure it was freeable when we did it in '98.

I wonder how many folks have acted on this sentiment: "Gee, if that pitch gets nailed a few more times it will make a nice finger crack."

How many El Cap Routes would go free if they had never been nailed?

Oplopanax

Mountain climber

The Deep Woods

Feb 15, 2016 - 01:00pm PT

How many cracks in modern granite destinations like Cochamo and Greenland are getting nailed multiple times before being freed?

vs.

How many are going up as proud free lines ground-up?

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Feb 15, 2016 - 01:27pm PT

Oplopanax says...

aid climbing may be enjoyable, but so's masturbating, if you do it right

So, you've obviously made mistakes in the past.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Feb 15, 2016 - 02:27pm PT

Agreed DMT. They should be happy with a recorded FFA.

Which is better form; freeing a route but using a piton or adding a bolt vs aiding it solo and clean?
With or without the inflatable sheep?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Feb 15, 2016 - 02:44pm PT

I still like to use "the Harding route".

I wish the next generation of climbers knew the history that they are a continuum of.

Reeotch

climber

4 Corners Area

Feb 15, 2016 - 03:40pm PT

"Pioneer" is a pretty strong word, Warbler. Can you give us a list of big wall climbs that were "pioneered" all free, ground-up?

It will be a pretty short list.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Feb 15, 2016 - 04:50pm PT

When the strongest of the sport are willing state that climbing has progression. I say, from where, to what?

Exactly. where to what. There are many types of progression in climbing.

There may be "Progression of a climb from aid into free" or "Progression of a climb from free to free solo" Or "Progression of a climb to being done clean". Progression from the NIAD to the trifecata solo.

If a aid crux is a string of sketchy hooks and someone later bolts it and makes it into a sport climb is that progress? Certainly not in boldness.

As far a renaming routes I usually like it when they come up with a cool new name. Astroman is way cooler than The East Face of Washington Column. Freeblast is cooler than The First Five Pitches of the Salathe Wall.

I'm sure I've told this story here before but I one time when I had the good fortune to talk to Royal Robbins and I asked him something about "The Dawn Wall", he stopped me immediately and said something like "I'm not sure what most people call it now, but I think Warren's name The Wall of Early Morning Light was one of the most beautiful and poetic names I've ever heard for a climb and I'll never refer to it as the Dawn Wall. I've called it The WOEML ever since. :-). But maybe the free route is the Dawn Wall.

eeyonkee

Trad climber

Golden, CO

Feb 15, 2016 - 04:55pm PT

When I did the FFA of Pipeline, Perry wanted me to name it Pipe Loads. While I loved the word-play, I loved the original name more. I guess I really would never have renamed it.

I love The Wall of Early Morning Light as well. Just like I like Call me Ishmael.

eeyonkee

Trad climber

Golden, CO

Feb 15, 2016 - 05:57pm PT

Not to denigrate Perry in any way of course. He was just riffing.

Btw, I did an early (1976) ascent of the "Dawn Wall" with Rick Piggott. As I recall, the name change was precisely BECAUSE of Robbin's chop. The original route (and, name) was no longer applicable because you could not start with the original bolt ladder. Rick and I ended up just doing the regular Nose route (with the Burner variation) and then traversed right into the main Dawn Wall dihedrals.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2016 - 07:07pm PT

Our language betrays our current biases. Opla, Mike and DMT make good points. I'll have to reread Warbler's posts. There might be some solid arguments in there to hang a principled approach on.

Is our bias toward free a bias from a clean climbing ethic? A forward looking passion fueled by our collective iron craft guilt?