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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 12, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
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For a while I was working on a project to list the best desert climbs.
Glad I didn't.
But since the cat is out of the bag vis a vis 50 Favorite Climbs, Charlie Fowler's choice of Sunlight Buttress would apply.
(but only real men climb in the Kolob so those that go in as rescue bait are more likely to leave in a bag)
And I am so glad that I got to do Northcutt Carter twice, and then meet them both (even put up some short routes with Harvey.)
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 12, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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The concept of redefining the 50 Classic Climbs was a great exercise in creative spray. It became apparent after only a few posts that most here haven't been around climbing LONG ENOUGH to understand what the book did for the entire concept of climbing in America. Complaints about not enough hard free climbs? That wasn't the concept of that moment, or as DMT so succinctly called a snapshot in time, The Germans have a great word for what it represented: Zeitgeist; the "spirit of the times."
I personally LOVED that book, and it had a great influence on me and what it meant to be a climber. But...times have changed, so a NEW book is needed for OUR Zeitgeist.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 14, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
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And not worrying about the risk of offending anyone here, any new book MUST be less Kalifornia-centric! Any new book of--say 100 Modern Classics--should include some of the slightly shorter climbs of the Right Coast. I'm sure that the Gunks classic "High Exposure" would make the cut (even though I haven't done the climb, many of my partners have), as would several routes at Seneca and Stone Mountain in North Carolina. How about some more of the Desert Spires that wouldn't be an Indian Tribal access issue? Some of the longer climbs at the Red Rocks, as well as Squamish?
Revisiting the past can be fun, but history as it exists, should not be rewritten. Rewritten; there's a great climb in Eldorado, but Yellow Spur is even better.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 15, 2016 - 12:33am PT
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I'm totally sympathetic to leaving the "right coast" out of the n classic climbs.
High Exposure, for instance, has tremendous historical value and a nice setting, but honestly, it consists of a forgettable first pitch and a steep bucket-haul for the classic part of the rating.
The history part is cool. You have to imagine Hans Kraus in 1941, probably with a hemp rope (I think nylon was after WW II) tied around his waist, some tight tennis sneakers on his feet, armed with a few soft-iron blade pitons that wouldn't go in too many places, and having no idea what lay ahead on that wall (just a few feet to the right it is 5.8+ and not far to the left it is 5.11)---then you might commune with the historical context. But in the modern world, with all the gear and beta, not to mention the superior conditioning of most climbers, I don't see it in some list of the 100 best in North America.
There are some routes on Cannon Mountain that pass the 500 foot test, but they're on granite and so have a lot of competition. I'll leave those questions to those who know more than the VMC's, which in addition to the Whitney-Gilman is really all I've done up there.
Actually, the Whitney-Gilman is another interesting historical case, 5.7 by Hassler Whitney in 1929 is mighty good by US standards, the route is over 500' but not by much, is on an impressive ridge, and although on granite, has all the potential instability associated with high alpine terrain.
By the way, I've done ten of the fifty CC's. I came by them honestly, having done them all before the book came out.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Jan 15, 2016 - 09:41am PT
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Stone Mountain? are you f'n kidding me??
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 15, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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Grand Funk Railroad, The Great Arch, Great White Way...all classic climbs IMHO. If 3-4 pitch routes qualified...
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Jan 15, 2016 - 11:08am PT
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Yeah maybe. There's probably several hundred domes like that in the Sierra and no one's arguing for their classic status. If that thing wasn't in North Carolina, no one would care about it.
Now Moore's Wall, Whitesides, Linville Gorge, the Glass- those have some cool climbing. Most don't make the 500' mark but they're nonetheless pretty unique.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 15, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
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Not sure about several hundred, but, yeah, Tuolumne alone has several. No need to argue...we know they're classic...well established classics...
Sharing the wealth geographically makes for a more interesting list methinks. And, considering the historical perspective too.
The Nose at Looking Glass...1966...fun line, 4 pitches.
I've always enjoyed climbing in North Carolina. Still think Zoo View is one of the best pitches of 5.7 anywhere (Moore's Wall).
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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why 50? How come not 32 or 69, or 71?
Of 32, 69 or 71, I like 69 best.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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I have never liked this book or any of the various lists and publications that try to identify the best climbs, best this, best that. Some magazines make their living on these kinds of lists, which are always subjective. Early on in my guidebook efforts I had a section called "recommended climbs" and immediately regretted it, when everyone and his brother attacked those climbs, when the masses overran many beautiful places of solitude. One has to ask what the motivation is for such publications. To make money? To convenience people who want to visit an area? To draw attention to your own personal favorites? I have never known anyone who agrees with any of these lists. There are so many climbs and places and different kinds of climbs and places. Let people discover them. Part of why we love a certain climb is because of the experience we had there with some special friend on some beautiful day. How can one quantify such experience? My list will never be yours. Don't advertise good climbs and good places. Too many of them have been ruined, as a result. But maybe my call here comes all too late.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Burn the guidebooks , block the roads , move the trails, throw casings and needles around, make hella Sasqatch noises.
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jwalseth
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Well this is a fun topic if not taken too seriously. "50 Classic Climbs" is like a personal list of the authors, changing it does not really make sense but everyone should enjoy making their own list. My climbing partner and I passed some time on the drive home recently trying to ID the "50 classic climbs of Washington State".
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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The title was never The 50 Classic Climbs of North America.
It was a somewhat arbitrary compilation of 50 climbs that the authors thought were historically significant, aesthetic, or especially fun. There was never any real attempt at a ranking, impartial or otherwise — it was more "qualification" than "quantification."
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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I see the book as symbolic of where climbing was in the decade before its publishing. Much more mountaineering oriented, with size, line, and summits as high value factors. Today it could be called Classic Climbs in the '50s.
Some of the routes chosen endure as true classics, but most have been stripped of that status in comparison to routes that are the product of climbings' astounding evolution since the book was published.
Even when it first came out, I saw it as mostly product of outdated standards. All that aside, the book has awesome photos and historical content. It's value is as a glimpse of the what climbing was in the past more than as a collection of the 50 most classic climbs North America has to offer.
Fairly sums up my feelings about this book. Still, it is a classic in the literature because of its historical content.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Answering the thread title:
I'd mention the rotten tree was gone.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Part of why we love a certain climb is because of the experience we had there with some special friend on some beautiful day. How can one quantify such experience? My list will never be yours.
+1
On the other hand... some of my first climbing adventures were inspired by the 50 Classic Climbs book. Now with the Internet it is trivial to suss out details of an unfamiliar place and start making plans to climb a specific line, and organize a trip, but in the pre-easy-beta days, the 50 Classic Climbs was a great resource. After I got a little more experience I also liked just picking a line upon visual inspection and giving it a shot if I thought I could do it. Sometimes it was awesome, sometimes it was a disaster.
Having the standard classic list also makes it easier to assess the experience of potential partners.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Loads of great thoughts in this thread, from what the original book meant at the time, to what it means now, to the folks who tried to tick some or all, to creating new books of like mindedness.
50 Greatest Top Ropes
50 Greatest Boulder Problems
50 Greatest Ice Climbs
50 Greatest Grade IIIs
50 Greatest 5.10a Climbs
50 Greatest Climbs 5.8 and below
50 Greatest In Yosemite
50 Greatest in California
50 Greatest East of Colorado
50 Greatest on Private Property
50 Greatest FAs
Boggles the mind, I can imagine books on 'em all.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Don't overlook 50 Greatest Chosspiles aka 50 Greatest Ways To Have An Epic
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Hahaha, Tami! I think to keep it under 50 pages, we need a Cliff Notes version!
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