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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 10, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
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A friend and I were just discussing the Fifty Classic Climbs, and I mentioned I would like to see the modern version. On the original list is nothing outside of the Western US, nothing from Mexico, nothing from Nevada. Have any of the climbing mags done an article like this?
Speaking only for my area of familiarity, I would probably substitute at least one of the long wonderful routes in Red Rocks for one of the California routes.
I haven't climbed on it but people are always RAVING about the Incredible Hulk. Which of the 50 would you remove to include your favorite Hulk route? It seems like the Regular route on Fairview and the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral are similar enough that one of them could go.
And I understand there are some fantastic long routes in El Potero Chico. Is there a Classic there that people would want to see included?
it would be interesting to hear from people who have DONE the routes why they might substitute something else.
Alaska and the Yukon
Mount Saint Elias, Abruzzi Ridge
Mount Fairweather, Carpé Ridge
Mount Hunter, West Ridge
Denali, Cassin Ridge
Moose’s Tooth, West Ridge
Mount Huntington, West Face 5.9 A2 with “severe snow and ice”
Mount Logan, Hummingbird Ridge
Middle Triple Peak, East Buttress VI 5.9 A3
Western Canada
Mount Sir Donald, Northwest Arete III 5.2
Bugaboo Spire, East Ridge III 5.7
South Howser Tower, West Buttress V 5.8 A2 or 5.10
Mount Robson, Wishbone Arete V 5.6
Mount Edith Cavell, North Face IV 5.7
Mount Alberta, Japanese Route V 5.6
Mount Temple, East Ridge IV 5.7
Mount Waddington, South Face V 5.7
Devils Thumb, East Ridge IV 5.6
Lotus Flower Tower V 5.8 A2 or 5.10
The Pacific Northwest
Mount Rainier, Liberty Ridge
Forbidden Peak, West Ridge II 5.6
Mount Shuksan, Price Glacier
Slesse Mountain, Northeast Buttress V 5.9 A2
Mount Stuart, North Ridge III 5.9
Liberty Bell Mountain, Liberty Crack V 5.9 A3
Wyoming
Devil’s Tower, Durrance Route II 5.6-5.7
Grand Teton, North Ridge IV 5.7
Grand Teton, Direct Exum Ridge III 5.6
Grand Teton, North Face IV 5.8
Mount Moran, Direct South Buttress IV 5.7 A3
Pingora, Northeast Face IV 5.8
Wolf's Head, East Ridge II 5.5
Colorado
Crestone Needle, Ellingwood Ledges III 5.7
Hallett Peak, Northcutt-Carter Route III 5.7
Petit Grepon, South Face III 5.7
Longs Peak, The Diamond, D1 V 5.7 A4 or 5.12a
The Southwest
Shiprock, III 5.7 A2 or 5.9
Castleton Tower, Kor-Ingalls Route III 5.9
Fisher Towers, The Titan, Finger of Fate, IV 5.8 A3
California
The Royal Arches, Royal Arches Route III 5.6 A1 or 5.9
Lost Arrow Spire, Spire Chimney III 5.5 A3 or 5.10 A2
Sentinel Rock, Steck-Salathe Route V 5.9 A3
Middle Cathedral Rock, East Buttress IV 5.9 A1 or 5.10
Half Dome, Northwest Face VI 5.9 A3 or 5.12
El Capitan, Nose Route VI 5.11 A3
El Capitan, Salathé Wall VI 5.10 A3
Mount Whitney, East Face III 5.7
Fairview Dome, North Face III-IV 5.9
Clyde Minaret, Southeast Face IV 5.8
Charlotte Dome, South Face III 5.7
Lover's Leap, Traveler Buttress II 5.9
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RyanD
climber
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
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Cool thread idea phylp.
Haven't climbed enough to chime in but would say any little or unrepeated climbs get removed and updated since classics should have some confirmation to be deemed as such. At this point there is much more consensus.
Probably add ironman traverse and nix hummingbird ridge for starters ;-)
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SethKane
Ice climber
Bozeman, MT
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
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I've always thought the Black Canyon, Zion, Red Rocks, EPC, Elephants Perch, and The Squamish Chief along with some long pure ice route were notably missing from that list. I am also slightly opposed to having multiple routes on the same formation (3 routes on the Grand?).
This website is pretty cool and I mostly agree with their suggestions:
http://lamountaineers.org/NAC/browserf/other/misc/whyroute.htm
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
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Phyl-
The Northcutt-Carter Route on Hallet Peak no longer exists in the form in which described. Massive rockfall eliminated the lower portion--it simply fell off! I did the route in 1961 with Layton Kor, and it WAS a true classic climb. So...it needs to be replaced on the list.
I've not climbed in the Red Rocks, but there are several routes there that would certainly qualify!
Added in edit: Is Shiprock still "off limits" with the Navajo Tribe? If so, it needs to drop off the list for legal/social reasons.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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Crestone Needle, LOL. Bring yer hoe.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
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Sierras
Carl Heller east arête Class "3" (lower 5th class)
3rd Pillar Mt. Dana III 5.10a ish
Lucky Streaks III 10b
Crescent Arch II 5.9+
Whitney Portal
Ghostrider IV 10c
Suicide rock
Sundance II 10b
Moondance II 11b
Insomnia 11b+
Tahquitz
The Vampire II 11b
The Edge 11b
The Flakes 11b
Joshua Tree
Figures on a Landscape 10c
Solid Gold 10b
Las Vegas
Yellow Brick Road III 10?
Epinephrine IV 9
The Delicate Sound of Thunder II 11a/b
Should eliminate several of those stupid snow climbs and the Royal Arches.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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Three routes on Grand Teton is a bit "excessive" for a single peak/formation. El Cap? The Nose and Salathe need to remain. What about the RNWF on Half Dome? How much has it changed from rockfall?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
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The Royal Arches, Royal Arches Route III 5.6 A1 or 5.9
Lost Arrow Spire, Spire Chimney III 5.5 A3 or 5.10 A2
Sentinel Rock, Steck-Salathe 10B
Middle Cathedral Rock, East Buttress IV 5.9 A1 or 5.10
Half Dome, Northwest Face VI 5.9 A3 or 5.12
El Capitan, Nose Route VI 5.9 C2
El Capitan, Salathé Wall VI 5.9 C2
Mount Whitney, East Face III 5.7
Fairview Dome, North Face III-III 5.9
Clyde Minaret, Southeast Face IV 5.8
Charlotte Dome, South Face III 5.7
Lover's Leap, Traveler Buttress II 5.9
Positive Vibrations, Incredible Hulk
Evolution Traverse
Astroman
for modern 'classics'
Whodunnit, Tahquitz
Third Pillar of Dana
The Vampire, Tahquitz
more reasonable climbs
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 10, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
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The origional list is heavy on aid climbs and light on 5.10 free climbs and has no big ice routes. keep it for what it is. A great story book. i always read it for the storys. when it comes to climbing make your own list :)
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
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I'd say get rid of Ellingwood ledges on Crestone Needle--it's like
a one move climb, and it's not 5.7.
Maybe the Prow on Kit Carson. Rated 5.7, more like a 5.6 boulder
move, then moderate climbing with tons of exposure. Loads of fun.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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East Face of Whitney & Royal Arches can go. No longer classic with so much really great stuff out there.
I agree with one per area or formation.
You could go with the top 50 places to climb and do the most popular route at each.
Oddly that would put Finger Trip at Tahquitz and Three Pigs at Stoney Point on the list.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
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Thanks for that link Sethkane. They address the point Brokefown and others made about why certain routes should be removed in a 2016 version.
I think you are all making interesting comments. Weston I agree with your post.
Take out Royal Arches for sure. So many other choices for a long easy route.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
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That list should not be altered, imo.
Not so much "should not be altered," as "can't be altered."
It was published in 1979, which means it was written in the mid-to-late 70s -- almost 40 years ago. "Updating" it is simply not possible. Might have been possible in 1985, but the climbing landscape in North America is so different now that it is far too late to update the Fifty Classics.
In fact, even trying to come up with a 2016 version of "Fifty Classic Climbs of North America" doesn't make sense. "Fifty Classic Multi-pitch Rock Climbs of the Eastern Sierras" maybe. Or "...of the Canadian Rockies" or "...of Alaska"
Still, ya gotta try, doncha?
But before we get to fisticuffs, there need to be some rules set. Rock? Multi-pitch only? Ice? Alpine? Sport? (is there even such a thing as a "classic" sport climb?) Aid?
Seriously Phyl, ya gotta set some rules. Otherwise, I'm going to come up with something like "Fifty Classic Ice Climbs Within Half an Hour of Field."
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
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Convert the book to metric. Then you could have the 80 classic climbs.
You'd still have the same fights, though.
And if you want to add three pitch routes, it opens up a lot on the East coast.
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T?S
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Jan 10, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
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Positive Vibrations is the best route I have ever done.
And I think this grade is a nice sweet spot for a more modern list. Long 5.11 routes, maybe even a few 5.12 routes could be in order. Anything harder is clearly out of reach for the every man. Astroman and Rostrum come to mind in this class.
Fishhook Arete may deserve a nod. Or any of the classics on Russell. That is such an unbelievable summit.
Temple crag is also an obnoxiously good summit and overall hike/experience. Which one goes on the list? Dark Star is longer and harder, but I've heard complaints that it gets to feel like a slogfest, whereas I really enjoyed sun-ribbon, and the unique tyrollean kinda puts it in a class of its own.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 10, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
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Sounds like an unrewarding project. Go out and do new stuff.
;>)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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No updating makes sense until we recall the principles that guided Roper and Steck to begin with. Perhaps an update should occur within the framework they described, or perhaps the framework itself needs revision. As noted in the quotes below, there are no climbs done after 1970 in the book. In a few years the 50 CC's will be 50 years old.
Of course, a classic is, or should be, a classic, the timelessness of the experience being on of the defining characteristics. So if Roper and Steck have done their job well, there should be little to delete. Perhaps some of the routes, now with close to another 50 years of hindsight, have indeed lost some of their luster. Perhaps even entire ranges---the Tetons come to mind---are no longer at central to the North American climbing experience as they once were. But by and large, it seems to me that what is needed now is 100 CC's; the 50 we already have, give or take a few, and fifty more done in the period from 1970 to, say, 2000 (see the quotes below on the subject of eliminating what might be called "instant classics.")
Here are some of the principles they appealed to. Everything past here is a quote from 50 CC's.
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Three basic criteria: the peak or route should look striking from afar, have a significant climbing history, and offer excellent climbing.
As a rule, excellent climbing should take precedence over general appearance, which in turn should outweigh historical significance.
Predictably, however, after determining that excellent climbing should take precedence over history and appearance, we began to make exceptions...[for example] the North Face Route on the Grand Teton...although the climbing on the north face is not extraordinary, the fame, history, and ruggedness of the wall made it obligatory for our list.
In choosing the climbs, we also decided that a number of years should have elapsed since the first ascent of a route so that we could discern whether the route has continued to attract climbers or was simply a passing fad. [First published in 1979, the list contains no route done after 1970.]
Reluctantly, we decided that climbs shorter than 500 feet would not be considered...Unfortunately, so many fine two and three-pitch routes are found in North America that their representation would have been limited to only a paragraph and a photograph for each. True to form, however, we found exceptions. Devil's Tower and the Lost Arrow, for example...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
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The question arises almost immediately as to the prospective audience! Are we going to fill it up with climbs that only the super-elite, 120 pound, 24 year old dirtbaggers can do, OR are we talking about routes that most seriously dedicated and experienced climbers can realistically aspire to doing? I am against a book of Fairy Tales and mostly wishful thinking! Classic, to me, means routes done more than just once under ideal weather and ice conditions; on the other hand I'm not talking about "Trade Routes," either.
Alas! Production of such books usually leads to degradation and possibly destruction of routes. i.e. Nose on El Cap; whoda' thunk it, that disposal of human wastes would become a major issue, back when the original Steck-Roper was written?
All of that said, I still aspire to a couple of the routes contained therin: Petit Grepon, Fairview, Bugaboo Spire East Ridge, just to name a few. Yeah, and the Grand Teton Direct Exum Ridge; forget the other 2.
Added in edit, since my post was being written as RGold had his posted. I would agree that any update should be more of an expansion than pruning and editing away. Climbs from other areas need to be included; the uber classic "Great Arch" on North Carolina's Stone Mountain leaps to my mind immediately. Not very hard, but it is--or was originally--long enough to consider w/r to number of pitches.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 10:28pm PT
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Thanks RGold, I was just about to post that...
I just looked it up on Wiki to remind myself (do not own a copy of the book any longer).
The criteria themselves are interesting. I had forgotten about the 500 foot rule, which certainly eliminates thousands of phenomenal routes. (Like many on DEE E's list)
Since we're so many years on, "history" and "endurance" rather than a "passing fad" have evolved too. Much new experience has been accumulated.
This came up because a friend from England who posts here (I'll let him chime in for himself), was saying he had an idea to structure a road trip around completing some of the "fifty classics" that were within his reach. He likes long crack routes.
And my comment was, well with limited time, are those REALLY the routes you should bother to do in those areas. Or are those even the areas you should go to. Of course the Valley is great, but if I had one day there I would much prefer to do Serenity/Sons over Royal Arches. It seems like a more "classic" Valley route to do because it's got more crack nature to it. If I were good enough to do Astroman, maybe I would pick that
And if I had one day in the Meadows, I would rather do Cathedral Peak or Lucky Streaks than the Regular route on Fairview.
I haven't seen the book mentioned, "Fifty favorite climbs". Will have to take a look at that list...
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
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Just to say, I have not enough travels to other areas to make up a list myself.
I just thought it would be nice to have more climbing threads on the front page.
But this probably would be useful for visitors to the US:
"50 best long free climbs of North America for the 5.6-5.8 climber"
"...for the 5.9-5.10 climber"
...for the 5.11-5.12 climber"
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 10, 2016 - 10:57pm PT
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Alaska and the Yukon
Mount Saint Elias, Abruzzi Ridge Done maybe 4 times?
Mount Fairweather, Carpé Ridge Done twice?
Mount Hunter, West Ridge Done 4 times?
Denali, Cassin Ridge Uber classic
Moose’s Tooth, West Ridge Dangerous but meh
Mount Huntington, West Face 5.9 A2 with “severe snow and ice”
Anything on Huntington is classic
Mount Logan, Hummingbird Ridge Can death routes be classics?
Middle Triple Peak, East Buttress VI 5.9 A3 Done twice?
Western Canada
Mount Sir Donald, Northwest Arete III 5.2 Definitely
Bugaboo Spire, East Ridge III 5.7 Pretty classic
South Howser Tower, West Buttress V 5.8 A2 or 5.10 Duh
Mount Robson, Wishbone Arete V 5.6 Yes!
Mount Edith Cavell, North Face IV 5.7 Easiest big N face is worthy
Mount Alberta, Japanese Route V 5.6 Mostly a descent route
Mount Temple, East Ridge IV 5.7 Anything on Temple
Mount Waddington, South Face V 5.7 It is Fred's route, right?
Devils Thumb, East Ridge IV 5.6 The Devil made me do it!
Lotus Flower Tower V 5.8 A2 or 5.10 Hard to surpass
The Pacific Northwest
Mount Rainier, Liberty Ridge Good descent route or ski piste
Forbidden Peak, West Ridge II 5.6 Meh - replace with Goode NE Buttress
Mount Shuksan, Price Glacier Maybe Fred does smoke?
Slesse Mountain, Northeast Buttress V 5.9 A2 Waay over-rated but big
Mount Stuart, North Ridge III 5.9 Noice if you do the whole thang.
Liberty Bell Mountain, Liberty Crack V 5.9 A3 Sweet line
Wyoming
Devil’s Tower, Durrance Route II 5.6-5.7 Meh
Grand Teton, North Ridge IV 5.7 I guess so
Grand Teton, Direct Exum Ridge III 5.6 Nice for n00bs
Grand Teton, North Face IV 5.8 Historic = classic, I guess
Mount Moran, Direct South Buttress IV 5.7 A3 I guess so
Pingora, Northeast Face IV 5.8 Worth the walk?
Wolf's Head, East Ridge II 5.5 Ditto
Colorado
Crestone Needle, Ellingwood Ledges III 5.7 Bring yer hoe
Hallett Peak, Northcutt-Carter Route III 5.7 Good tuneup for Canadian Rockies
Petit Grepon, South Face III 5.7 Pretty sweet
Longs Peak, The Diamond, D1 V 5.7 A4 or 5.12a Yeah, pretty classic
The Southwest
Shiprock, III 5.7 A2 or 5.9 Mega
Castleton Tower, Kor-Ingalls Route III 5.9 Looks cool
Fisher Towers, The Titan, Finger of Fate, IV 5.8 A3 Didn't Jeremy's mom do it?
California
The Royal Arches, Royal Arches Route III 5.6 A1 or 5.9 Fred was definitely smoking
Lost Arrow Spire, Spire Chimney III 5.5 A3 or 5.10 A2 If you enjoy a good thrash
Sentinel Rock, Steck-Salathe Route V 5.9 A3 Just lock me in the closet for a few hours
Middle Cathedral Rock, East Buttress IV 5.9 A1 or 5.10 POS
Half Dome, Northwest Face VI 5.9 A3 or 5.12 It doesn't even require a rope!
El Capitan, Nose Route VI 5.11 A3 "Mommy, it smells bad here!"
El Capitan, Salathé Wall VI 5.10 A3 Ticks all the boxes
Mount Whitney, East Face III 5.7 Uh, no.
Fairview Dome, North Face III-IV 5.9 Classic queues
Clyde Minaret, Southeast Face IV 5.8 Looks cooler than it is?
Charlotte Dome, South Face III 5.7 Too Far To Walk Rock
Lover's Leap, Traveler Buttress II 5.9 Fred's idea of a joke?
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RyanD
climber
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Jan 10, 2016 - 11:06pm PT
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^^^
Great info Reily.
Cmac put u back on payroll for 2016 or something?
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Dan McDevitt
Trad climber
yosemite
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Jan 10, 2016 - 11:21pm PT
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But this probably would be useful for visitors to the US:
"50 best long free climbs of North America for the 5.6-5.8 climber"
"...for the 5.9-5.10 climber"
...for the 5.11-5.12 climber"
this seems like a great idea Phylp!
50 great routes in each catagory, then you can pick the route to the grade you most enjoy
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Jan 11, 2016 - 12:27am PT
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Reilly
Roper and Steck wrote 50 Classics, not Uncle Fred.
No, the S Face of Wadd is not one of UF's routes. He and his brother made the 2nd asc. FA was done by House and Weissner.
Uncle Fred recently wrote "100 Favourite North American Climbs". Somewhat biased, as one might expect, but worth a look. The selection is limited to climbs which he has done himself, so is not all inclusive--although he had thousands to choose from. None of the routes are marked on the photos, making it hard to determine where the face climbs are located. Lots to do there.......
Cheers!
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Bababata
Mountain climber
Utopia
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Jan 11, 2016 - 02:50am PT
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Nice post, Rgold!
Given the criteria and what I've climbed personally, I'd get rid of the EB of Middle Cathedral, the Royal Arches, Traverler's Buttress (these three don't even reach true summits), and Fairview Dome... and I'd replace them with Positive Vibes, Epinephrine, the Rostrum, and Snake Dike, all of which have better climbing, appearance and exposure (plus some great history).
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 11, 2016 - 04:19am PT
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the book is what it is. a great read and an inspiration to the new climbers of the eightys. there is Zero need to change anything about it. A modern book would start from scratch and be completly different. If the book was at all succesfull it would probobly ruin a bunch of climbs....
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Keith Leaman
Trad climber
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Jan 11, 2016 - 06:24am PT
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Why leave out Eastern Canada? Thor and Asgard were climbed in 1953 and other routes put up in the mid '60s. Could have been called "...of Western North America".
Very clever, Reilly.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jan 11, 2016 - 07:07am PT
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Those formations in Baffin are out of this world. God put them there for the sole purpose of tempting climbers.
Really striking.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 11, 2016 - 07:36am PT
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Hamie, they had to have consulted with Uncle Fred as there's no way those guys would have
included some of those heaps like Price Glacier and Crestone Needle. And how else to explain
Waddington S Face and Royal Arches?
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jan 11, 2016 - 07:36am PT
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First, you may not choose two routes on same formation.
As others have said, you need ice routes.
You have nothing on east coast, think about that.
There are plenty of 1-5 pitch classics you skip all over, but routes to be here must be 3 pitches minimum
there should also be two lists,
mortals- one that can be done
immortal- best line but hard-
think like Ken Wilson.
//special place in my world for triple crown, totem pole (original route), cleo, spider rock.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 11, 2016 - 07:43am PT
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Rick D. apparently you know little about ice...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:05am PT
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Most suggestions here say even this new book should be named "50 Ancient Climbs" - for those interested in continually reliving the past.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2016 - 08:06am PT
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Great post, Reilly - very funny!
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:15am PT
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East Face of Whitney & Royal Arches can go.
I disagree Chris, If only from an historical perspective.
There should be more ice routes, both pure, and mixed.
Widows Tears? Even though it only forms sporadically.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:41am PT
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...there are no climbs done after 1970 in the book. Actually, Middle Triple was done in 77, I think there may be 1-2 others.
That's the biggest issue with the book today, is that it was published before the free climbing revolution.
Modern climbers are interested in working their way through the free climbs - Naked Edge, Astroman, Moonlight, etc.
The magic and popularity of 50 CC is the apprenticeship it so masterfully laid out. Here is a step by step book, follow this path - from the Royal Arches to Middle Triple.
But today it's nearly irrelevant. The sport now is all about free climbing.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:44am PT
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Just leave the book alone, Mr Grumpy, Write your own.
This + 100.
You can't "rewrite" it, the book is it's own snapshot in time. Anyone can write their own "list" guidebook. Self-publishing has made that possible. Get busy, put out your own book, then stand back and reap the maelstrom of climbers demonstrating that they can't agree on anything, most especially a list of "classic" climbs.
The sport now is all about free climbing.
Says the lumberjack of the tree.
I bet there are those that would say the sport is all about bouldering... and others that would say it's all about mixed... and...
It's all climbing.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:51am PT
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Certainly, I'd exchange NE Butt of Higher for East Butt of Middle Cat. Or Braille Book.
Traveler's at the Leap? Hmm, surely there are many that are more classic than that.
Something at the CA Needles, for sure. Atlantis or Don Juan Wall are just a couple. Spooky, if you're looking for a moderate.
J-Tree is a pile of piles, nothing there classic enough to rank in the top 50. But City of Rocks? Perhaps, but those are just piles too.
As for writing another book, there are several--but it sure is fun thinking of your favorite 50.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:54am PT
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^^^ so whatever happened to the book, Chris?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 11, 2016 - 08:55am PT
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.. is there a book called '50 favorite climbs' which has a really cool list of climbs?
50 Classic n00b Climbs, that's the title bro.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 11, 2016 - 09:06am PT
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^^^^^^ Uh.....Yea!!
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jan 11, 2016 - 09:28am PT
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Best way to go is call them "Routes That Don't Suck".
Gives you a pretty wide latitude, unless it's around here, and you're talking about Traveler Buttress.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jan 11, 2016 - 09:33am PT
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yea tradman, only lived in Cody for just three years.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 11, 2016 - 09:52am PT
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I bet there are those that would say the sport is all about bouldering... and others that would say it's all about mixed... and... It's all climbing. Right, and the common denominator is a focus on unaided movement harder than V0.
Most suggested additions and replacements to the original 50 (ie, C-macs 100, the LA Mountaineers top 25, 50 Favorites, etc) seem to involve replacing routes that are too easy or involve bits of aid for free climbs 5.9 and harder.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 11, 2016 - 09:52am PT
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Should eliminate several of those stupid snow climbs and the Royal Arches.
Good post by dee dee.
And Half Dome is likely not as classic... :)
BUT the book was not trying to gather the BEST 50 climbs, it was simply the picks of the author of climbs that were either good or significant historically, in their opinion. Remember, the authors, are accomplished climbers, obviously, but they are humans like you. Any individual that climbed a ton of sh#t can have their pick of 50 classics. Don't take this list too seriously.
I would substitute the Royal Arches with Snake Dike, and take off the reg. NW face and substitute it with the Direct NW face, if that is intact. OR maybe with S Face of Watkins. Even though I have not done either of those, I think they would make a better alternative at the time. I can easily come up with a 100 climbs that are worth doing in the NA.
South Face of Moro Rock could easily replace the Royal Arches. (I am not hating on RA because it is 'too easy for you,' I climbed it when it was an appropriate for me and both my partner and I didn't like the climb. The views are good, but the views are good from the Arrowhead Arete too. That climb is more interesting as well.
One many have not heard... Texas Tower Direct to Texas Hold'em to Lonestar link up, in Red Rocks. MEGA good.
Silk Road on Calaveras Dome and War of the Walls.
One of the routes on Prusik Peak (Solid Gold and Stanley Bergler...likely f-up the last names) or maybe Dragontail could be a great addition (Leavenworth Area).
About 10 routes on the Hulk that could be there haha. Many on Mt. Russell, S Face of Conness, Evolution Traverse.
Wind Rive Range climbs (the traverse)
Seems like Cassin on Denali, N buttress of Hunter and Ham and Eggs could be a contender, as it is the most popular route in Ruth Gorge?
Longer routes from Black Canyon deserve to be there..
Inti Watana to Resolution Arete link up in Red Rocks
Rostrum/Astroman
Honestly, new route a friend and I did on the Cherubim Dome (What Dreams May Come) and Subliminal Verses on the South Face of the Hamilton dome, are both REALLY f-king good. No only because I am somehow mentally invested in them because we climbed them. So is the Emperor on Bubbs Creek Wall (amazing long route), Tokopah Reality on Lower Tokopah Dome. And Wild West Crack on Serpent's Tooth. Very very good routes.
Ho Chi Minh Trail can substitute the East Buttress on Middle.
OZ with Gram Traverse
Don Juan, Atlantis, Airy Interlude, Igor Unchained, Pea Soup, Hardly Wallbanger and like everything else at the Needles.
Widow's Tears
Moonage Daydream on the Watchtower
Kitty from Hell on Chimney Spire
I can go on forever...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 11, 2016 - 09:52am PT
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ever hear of newfoundland? even without going that far north if you were doing a classic Ice list it would be hard to not have a look at Le Promenade, The last Gent, called on account of rains, China Shop, black dike, fafnir, Repentance and Remission.. heck even Ragnarock deserves a look
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 11, 2016 - 10:03am PT
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Looks like Gary's list/website is still up:
http://lamountaineers.org/NAC/browserf/other/misc/
Pretty good list of classic climbs.
I've always wondered about a few of the "classics" in the book. If a route has only been done once? Seems strange that it would be a classic.
I'd sub out the Hummingbird Ridge on Logan for the East Ridge (having seen both and climbed the East Ridge).
The classic on St. Elias doesn't get done anymore. Its a historical route, to be sure, but... If there is a classic on St. Elias...what would it be? Harvard Route? Mira Face? Boundary Route? Maybe not enough traffic to be considered classic...?
Mooses Tooth...sub out West Ridge for Ham and Eggs or the Crouch/Donini? West Ridge to the true summit...more busy than classic...
Huntington: Colton/Leach.
Middle Triple? Hmmm.
Devil's Tower: Durrance for the Weissner?
Probably find a spot for Moonlight Buttress in Zion.
Edit to add: Fifty Favorites has some beauties! Liked the mix of seasoned climbers and their favorite routes. Touched a lot of terrain and climbers!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 11, 2016 - 10:20am PT
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again. 50 classics ia a snapshot in time. it stands for what it was. Our lists will be new and flavored by our place in time..
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:02am PT
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ok, if you could do only one route in each state/province which would it be? The showpiece climb, free, aid, whatever? sorry florida, nebraska etc.
A summit?
A multi pitch free route?
an ice route?
alpine route?
single pitch free climb? (can this represent a state like california?)
death route?
Can there be aid involved (ala mexican hat)
I could not support shiprock for sake of bad rock.
Sundevil is a real line vs original route.
edith cavell as a great rockies line?
reg route on half dome is gone.
sorry, ne ridge of bugaboo is not that good, and going down the cain route blows.
/and i climbed in 10 degree weather in lake willoughby, great area when if the temp was 15 degrees warmer.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:14am PT
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Great now we can look forward to multiple rescues occurring on the new list.
For example the East ridge of Mt Temple saw a number of deaths and rescues within 1 year of 50 Classic Climbs being printed.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:50am PT
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Tami, mountainproject.com comes to mind. People vote on what is good or not good. You can check how popular something is by clicking on the route and seeing how many members have 'ticked' it. Of course, it does not always reveal the full story, as it is limited to those with an account, those who are ticking and rating.
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Andy Fielding
Trad climber
UK
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Jan 11, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
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When "50 Classics" came out, the name was quickly changed to "50 Crowded Climbs" by the pundits.
Something similar happened here in the UK when Ken Wilson published Hard Rock. I was involved in rescuing a father and son from the easiest route in the book. They fully admitted they were only doing it to get a Hard Rock tick.
How many of us go to a new area or a new crag and only do the 3 star routes listed in the guide book? I've done it in France and Spain because I only had a limited time there. So how do we know which are the best places to go and therefore the right guide book to buy. As it has been said above perhaps the answer lies in cyber space but with so much information out there I think there is still a place for a list of the 50/100 best rock, ice, multi pitch, sport, aid climbs....etc.
By the way if someone does decide to update the list or the book please don't delete Royal Arches. It's the only one I've done. :)
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jan 11, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
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While I will not contribute an opinion because I am not worthy, I wanted to thank you, Phyl, for starting a climbing related thread.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jan 11, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
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Have them all be 50ft sport climbs.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Jan 11, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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Andy mentioned the book "Hard Rock". It is one of a 4 part British series called "Classic Rock", "Hard Rock" "Extreme Rock" and "Cold Climbs" covering climbs in the UK. The latter covers ice climbs.
This division of climbs by difficulty illustrates that it is unrealistic to use one book or list to compare climbs of different character or grade. A two day alpine route in Alaska cannot be compared to a two day rock route in California. That's like comparing apples, oranges and peaches. It would be more meaningful to have three or more lists such as:
......50 Classic Alpine Routes
......50 Classic Rock Routes
......50 Classic Ice Routes
Besides choosing 50 routes, the other problem would be getting consensus on what constitutes a "classic".
I once had a visit from a Hong Kong radio disc jockey. He headed for the bookcase, and pulled out "Hard Rock". His look of disappointment was "classic".
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:04pm PT
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After thinking about this for a day or two, I do agree that any list of "classic" or "best" climbs quickly turns into crowded climbs.
My old climbing pal Gary Clark, does seem to have the best overall list of long classic climbs in North America. Although he has retired from the task, the Los Alamos climbing club maintains the valuable database.
http://lamountaineers.org/NAC/browserf/other/misc/
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:13pm PT
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why 50? How come not 32 or 69, or 71?
From the introduction:
"Only fifty routes, we felt, could be described adequately in a book this size."
"This size" means about 300 pages. The authors started with a list of nearly 100 climbs and pared it down.
The book was intended to be much more than a tick list, but also something different from a guidebook. It is coffee-table sized and each route gets 5--6 pages, so that's where 50 came from. Terms like "a celebration' or "an appreciation" are appropriate; I think the authors hoped to define what it meant to be a North American classic in 1979. In doing so, they were trying to bring into focus the entire North American mountain culture as they understood it and experienced it.
Part of that culture is the spectrum of mountain challenges it embraces, from the Cassin Ridge on Denali to, yes, the Traveler's Buttress on Lover's Leap, an inclusion that violated the author's 500-foot rule, at least partially because Robbins was so enthusiastic about the climb.
One of the ways that the text is a cultural document and not a tick list or selected climbs guide is reflected in the authors' criteria for inclusion. Yes, a route had to have "good" climbing, but it also had to have a place in the history of the endeavor, it had to be striking in form and milieu, and it had to have stood the test of time.
The authors leave some of their underlying intentions to a quote from Gaston Rebuffat in his book, Starlight and Storm:
Some mountaineers are proud of having done all their climbs without bivouac. How much they have missed! And the same applies to those who enjoy only rock climbing, or only the ice climbs, only the ridges or the faces. We should refuse none of the thousand and one joys that the mountains offer us at every turn. We should brush nothing aside, set no restrictions. We should experience hunger and thirst, be able to go fast, but also know how to go slowly and to contemplate.
Rebuffat wrote these words in 1954; he could hardly have imagined the fracturing and intense specialization that would characterize climbing development, nor could he have guessed that the Access Fund would have to embark on a program that attempts to sensitize climbers to the natural environment they practice their specializations on.
I think Roper and Steck, although situated in the American tradition, belonged more to Rebuffat's world than our current one, and this makes their book seem quaint---it isn't simply that the routes are now rather old. Their book was a book of dreams, as DMT says, but the dreams of a another time, the dreams of Pete Sinclair's "last innocent Americans" perhaps. But those dreams were the work of people who loved their subject and thought deeply about it, and their dreams did not spring from a soulless crowd-sourced statistical monstrosity culled from the content-free star ratings of Mountain Project. Save us, dear god, from such compilations!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 12, 2016 - 07:23am PT
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Thanks for this thread Phl!
That book was an inspiration, as well as a gestalt of the climbing idom in 1979.it was a less fragmented time, and rock lumbers were still pretty close to the mountaineering tradition; I do t think a 21st century book would have the '500' rule'.
The beauty of Steck's and Roper's book were the dreams it helped to foster. Thank you DMT! I suspect that it's not clear to contemporary climbers of whatever niche, how influential that book was.
Books reflect the times they were written, as well as, hopefully,some universal truths. Otherwise we wouldn't still be reading Crime and Punishment.
Climbing today is much more fraction/factionated then it was back in '79. And that book is a step in the road to the specialized disciplines we see today. Back then I thought that bigwall climbing was the Apogee of the rock climbing experience. But living in laramie ( Vedauwoo) I found an Unlooked for niche in Wyde cracks,when I lead my first 5.12 in '80 or so, my own path started to form, and I knew that those Alaska mtn snow climbs were going to the back burner ( I figured you could do that sh#t when you were old). Shortly after that the crack climbing in Indian took off, and showed us a glimpse of were we could go in that direction. I became obsessed with cracks ( esp, but not exclusively, Wyde) and walls and long free climbs, alpinism be damned.. I think we all found our own compromises.
Today, a book withe the wide spectrum would be even more hypothetical than that one was.we are ust more compartmentalized, now.
If books ( and lists )reflect their times, they also reflect their authors. Today there could be a myriad of these book / lists reflecting the reasons a diversity of people climb today
I could create a quirky Jaybro's pick volume one , aka the dicks picks in the grateful dead world. It would be an idiosyncratic, psychological manifestation of a long term climber influenced by, among other things, a book called @ Fifty classic climbs", there wold be hard Wyde climbs interspersed with easy classics.
What if, a bunch of diverse,disparate climbers made such lists? It could be its own thread
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
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and their dreams did not spring from a soulless crowd-sourced statistical monstrosity culled from the content-free star ratings of Mountain Project. Save us, dear god, from such compilations!
That's pure gold, RGOLD!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 12, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
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My first main climbing buddy bought a house right next to Sugarloaf (across the street from the gas station) because of the dreams fostered by Traveler's Buttress and our first aborted winter foray and seeing the For Sale sign in the window of the realty office while walking back to the car on unplowed roads. Would have never thought of going there if not for the 50 Classics.
There is something genius in picking a spot on a map or a line in a book, fantasizing about it, building yourself up to be ready (or not), and then just doing it. And then spraying about it online to form a community of folks who dig the same sort of thing.
The spontaneous adventures with no guides have their place too of course, but both are part of the great spiritual delight of climbing.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 12, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
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For a while I was working on a project to list the best desert climbs.
Glad I didn't.
But since the cat is out of the bag vis a vis 50 Favorite Climbs, Charlie Fowler's choice of Sunlight Buttress would apply.
(but only real men climb in the Kolob so those that go in as rescue bait are more likely to leave in a bag)
And I am so glad that I got to do Northcutt Carter twice, and then meet them both (even put up some short routes with Harvey.)
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 12, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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The concept of redefining the 50 Classic Climbs was a great exercise in creative spray. It became apparent after only a few posts that most here haven't been around climbing LONG ENOUGH to understand what the book did for the entire concept of climbing in America. Complaints about not enough hard free climbs? That wasn't the concept of that moment, or as DMT so succinctly called a snapshot in time, The Germans have a great word for what it represented: Zeitgeist; the "spirit of the times."
I personally LOVED that book, and it had a great influence on me and what it meant to be a climber. But...times have changed, so a NEW book is needed for OUR Zeitgeist.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 14, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
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And not worrying about the risk of offending anyone here, any new book MUST be less Kalifornia-centric! Any new book of--say 100 Modern Classics--should include some of the slightly shorter climbs of the Right Coast. I'm sure that the Gunks classic "High Exposure" would make the cut (even though I haven't done the climb, many of my partners have), as would several routes at Seneca and Stone Mountain in North Carolina. How about some more of the Desert Spires that wouldn't be an Indian Tribal access issue? Some of the longer climbs at the Red Rocks, as well as Squamish?
Revisiting the past can be fun, but history as it exists, should not be rewritten. Rewritten; there's a great climb in Eldorado, but Yellow Spur is even better.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 15, 2016 - 12:33am PT
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I'm totally sympathetic to leaving the "right coast" out of the n classic climbs.
High Exposure, for instance, has tremendous historical value and a nice setting, but honestly, it consists of a forgettable first pitch and a steep bucket-haul for the classic part of the rating.
The history part is cool. You have to imagine Hans Kraus in 1941, probably with a hemp rope (I think nylon was after WW II) tied around his waist, some tight tennis sneakers on his feet, armed with a few soft-iron blade pitons that wouldn't go in too many places, and having no idea what lay ahead on that wall (just a few feet to the right it is 5.8+ and not far to the left it is 5.11)---then you might commune with the historical context. But in the modern world, with all the gear and beta, not to mention the superior conditioning of most climbers, I don't see it in some list of the 100 best in North America.
There are some routes on Cannon Mountain that pass the 500 foot test, but they're on granite and so have a lot of competition. I'll leave those questions to those who know more than the VMC's, which in addition to the Whitney-Gilman is really all I've done up there.
Actually, the Whitney-Gilman is another interesting historical case, 5.7 by Hassler Whitney in 1929 is mighty good by US standards, the route is over 500' but not by much, is on an impressive ridge, and although on granite, has all the potential instability associated with high alpine terrain.
By the way, I've done ten of the fifty CC's. I came by them honestly, having done them all before the book came out.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Jan 15, 2016 - 09:41am PT
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Stone Mountain? are you f'n kidding me??
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 15, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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Grand Funk Railroad, The Great Arch, Great White Way...all classic climbs IMHO. If 3-4 pitch routes qualified...
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Jan 15, 2016 - 11:08am PT
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Yeah maybe. There's probably several hundred domes like that in the Sierra and no one's arguing for their classic status. If that thing wasn't in North Carolina, no one would care about it.
Now Moore's Wall, Whitesides, Linville Gorge, the Glass- those have some cool climbing. Most don't make the 500' mark but they're nonetheless pretty unique.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 15, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
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Not sure about several hundred, but, yeah, Tuolumne alone has several. No need to argue...we know they're classic...well established classics...
Sharing the wealth geographically makes for a more interesting list methinks. And, considering the historical perspective too.
The Nose at Looking Glass...1966...fun line, 4 pitches.
I've always enjoyed climbing in North Carolina. Still think Zoo View is one of the best pitches of 5.7 anywhere (Moore's Wall).
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Jan 15, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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why 50? How come not 32 or 69, or 71?
Of 32, 69 or 71, I like 69 best.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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I have never liked this book or any of the various lists and publications that try to identify the best climbs, best this, best that. Some magazines make their living on these kinds of lists, which are always subjective. Early on in my guidebook efforts I had a section called "recommended climbs" and immediately regretted it, when everyone and his brother attacked those climbs, when the masses overran many beautiful places of solitude. One has to ask what the motivation is for such publications. To make money? To convenience people who want to visit an area? To draw attention to your own personal favorites? I have never known anyone who agrees with any of these lists. There are so many climbs and places and different kinds of climbs and places. Let people discover them. Part of why we love a certain climb is because of the experience we had there with some special friend on some beautiful day. How can one quantify such experience? My list will never be yours. Don't advertise good climbs and good places. Too many of them have been ruined, as a result. But maybe my call here comes all too late.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Burn the guidebooks , block the roads , move the trails, throw casings and needles around, make hella Sasqatch noises.
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jwalseth
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Well this is a fun topic if not taken too seriously. "50 Classic Climbs" is like a personal list of the authors, changing it does not really make sense but everyone should enjoy making their own list. My climbing partner and I passed some time on the drive home recently trying to ID the "50 classic climbs of Washington State".
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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The title was never The 50 Classic Climbs of North America.
It was a somewhat arbitrary compilation of 50 climbs that the authors thought were historically significant, aesthetic, or especially fun. There was never any real attempt at a ranking, impartial or otherwise — it was more "qualification" than "quantification."
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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I see the book as symbolic of where climbing was in the decade before its publishing. Much more mountaineering oriented, with size, line, and summits as high value factors. Today it could be called Classic Climbs in the '50s.
Some of the routes chosen endure as true classics, but most have been stripped of that status in comparison to routes that are the product of climbings' astounding evolution since the book was published.
Even when it first came out, I saw it as mostly product of outdated standards. All that aside, the book has awesome photos and historical content. It's value is as a glimpse of the what climbing was in the past more than as a collection of the 50 most classic climbs North America has to offer.
Fairly sums up my feelings about this book. Still, it is a classic in the literature because of its historical content.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Answering the thread title:
I'd mention the rotten tree was gone.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Part of why we love a certain climb is because of the experience we had there with some special friend on some beautiful day. How can one quantify such experience? My list will never be yours.
+1
On the other hand... some of my first climbing adventures were inspired by the 50 Classic Climbs book. Now with the Internet it is trivial to suss out details of an unfamiliar place and start making plans to climb a specific line, and organize a trip, but in the pre-easy-beta days, the 50 Classic Climbs was a great resource. After I got a little more experience I also liked just picking a line upon visual inspection and giving it a shot if I thought I could do it. Sometimes it was awesome, sometimes it was a disaster.
Having the standard classic list also makes it easier to assess the experience of potential partners.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Loads of great thoughts in this thread, from what the original book meant at the time, to what it means now, to the folks who tried to tick some or all, to creating new books of like mindedness.
50 Greatest Top Ropes
50 Greatest Boulder Problems
50 Greatest Ice Climbs
50 Greatest Grade IIIs
50 Greatest 5.10a Climbs
50 Greatest Climbs 5.8 and below
50 Greatest In Yosemite
50 Greatest in California
50 Greatest East of Colorado
50 Greatest on Private Property
50 Greatest FAs
Boggles the mind, I can imagine books on 'em all.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Don't overlook 50 Greatest Chosspiles aka 50 Greatest Ways To Have An Epic
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Hahaha, Tami! I think to keep it under 50 pages, we need a Cliff Notes version!
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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Fantastic idea,,although theres way more than 50 most crowded climbs ,yes we will all share,,starting with one per area ,seems good,so also the americas,or western hem.also,,mixed could work but with this crowd ,rock primarily,,probably over a few pitches,,thinning out some sporty spots,,still the dessert has enough to go around,,,tetons are a pile of chos compared to the winds,,then theres the buggaboos,,on and on ,,seems like I say great idea,great place to start,,
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Somebody needs to do a 50 Classic Boulder Problems of North America book. I'd hit that.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Posting here is probably a waste of time, but I'd update it to be 50 classic and rewarding climbs that an ordinary person on an ordinary budget could reasonably complete in an ordinary lifetime. To me, that means 5.10 at most, with some kind of access by foot or fixed-wing aircraft that's no worse than Waddington. They should also introduce people to a wide variety of areas.
For example, Hummingbird Ridge on Logan is way too logistically complex and expensive for most normal people. And unless you're independently wealthy or getting paid to climb, you're highly unlikely to mount expeditions to all of the "Alaska and Yukon" peaks within your lifetime. One or two of these climbs would give the flavor, but there are too many in the current version.
Also, there's nothing in Montana, the far northern Cascades, or the southwest. I think anyone who loves mountains should visit the Crazies, Beartooths, Pickets, and something like Baboquivari or Cochise if they can.
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SethKane
Ice climber
Bozeman, MT
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Also, there's nothing in Montana, the far northern Cascades, or the southwest. I think anyone who loves mountains should visit the Crazies, Beartooths, Pickets, and something like Baboquivari or Cochise if they can.
What in the Beartooths would qualify as classic though? Even most of the stuff that's really good nobody knows about even in Montana. Cali Ice maybe?
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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What in the Beartooths would qualify as classic though? I don't have enough experience to say. But they seemed unique enough when I was there -- basically, the Canadian Rockies with the ice fields all melted off and better rock underneath. There should be at least one fun, classic line to be found, and it's telling that even most locals don't know about your "really good stuff." "50 Classics" aims for a balance of quality, position, and history. If you could pick one 4th-5.10 alpine rock route, or one WI3-5 ice line, that shows the Beartooths at their best (like Matthes Crest for the Sierra) or was an iconic local climb, what would it be?
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
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Seano, thanks for posting. Very interesting comment.
There have been a ton of thoughtful, fun responses to this thread. Thanks to everybody for their input.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Cochise? Like the Apache chief? Where is that, is it in the southwest?
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Feb 13, 2016 - 09:22am PT
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Matthes Crest should be on there instead of E.Face Whitney.
Also, Astroman instead of E. Butt Middle Cathedral.
If I remember, the Muldrow route on Denali isn't on there, and it truly is a classic. Anything to reduce the annual traffic jam on the West Buttress.
But frankly, it seems that all that happened to the "50 classics" is that they then became the 50 crowded climbs.
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Feb 13, 2016 - 09:25am PT
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Oh, and that nice 5.8 route on the west side of Snowpatch spire (the one that goes by surf's up ledge) is WAY nicer than that pigeon spire thing Roper put in there.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:13am PT
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Here's an addition for K-man's list:
The 50 Schittiest Schitt Climbs in the U.S.....
Just an irreverent thought....
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| Messages 1 - 90 of total 90 in this topic |
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