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overwatch
climber
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Multi pitch climbing.com is a great resource. Good link
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Thanks davidc, tons (TONS) of info to look at for me later..
I'm still thinking of the QUICKEST, yet still redundant way to reach an injured leader.
1. Tie off belay device
2. tie butterfly below tied off belay. Clip in.
3. Arrange anchor as needed for up pull with a master point, clip belayers end of rope So it is retrievable
4. Lastly free climb with leaders counter weight pulling you up... adding prussic if necessary (leader hits ledge or roof)
If you need more rope you could untie from end of rope, and either make a big slip knot cinched back to the anchor, or just untie and pull all the way thru if you need the extra rope.
Just thinking about some one with just minutes to live
Thanks for all the input
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overwatch
climber
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A big way to save time is to always have a multi-directional anchor.
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John M.
Trad climber
Tempe, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
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Overwatch, can you honestly say that you always build an anchor on multipitch climbs meant to withstand upward forces??? If I am honest, I nor anyone I have ever climbed with has done this... While it may be a good thing to consider while building an anchor (can I equip this anchor with a piece to accomadate an upward force) I think saying always building your anchors in this way is a very "lab test" perfect scenario way of describing how things should be done. Sure, anchors, in theory, should always be multidirectional, just as every piece we place should be bomber, but it isn't always and never will be the absolute case.
David c. What an awesome resource. Thank you for sharing that. Google was not as kind.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Lower them out into space and then pull them in with the tag line (didn't say we couldn't have a tag line, I always carry a tag line on boulder problems and trips to the library to check out some new audiobooks)
(this might be a joke)
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overwatch
climber
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When making anchors with gear on multipitch routes, yes I do, not hard or slow with practice. Bolt anchors are already multi directional.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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omni-directional anchors and a tagline are ideal, but I'd guess less than always used
I still think counter-weight free-climbing (prussic if deemed necessary) off a tied off belay device might be best... 90% of the time
Secure bottom rope end at anchor, climb with self-belay backup
The sad case of the strangulation in the hung up gear sling is so unique... had the partner jummared off the victim.. either she'd be pulled free and lived, or she may have died anyway.. them wondering if the jugging may be to blame.
Edit
Thanks,down beloooooowwww.
Probably easy to happen on low angles.. good argument against shoulder slings (which I love)
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Someone asked for an example. My partner and I were up 600 feet on Hallets in RMNP when he fell (about 30 feet). A lot of good info to getting together with your partner.
But that's only the first step. My partner had 3 crashed vertebra. He could move his legs. It was afternoon and the thunder showers. Lighting was all around us. We were getting wet so getting cold was in the future. Partner was doing well but I was thinking shock. So, I decided we would lower off. I would lower him 50 to 80 feet to a ledge. Tie him off. I then would rap. Tie him in and pull the rope. Repeat. Got to the base still in the light. Rope only hung up once near the bottom. Still light when we got to the base.
Was on an adrenaline rush for 4 hours. Got to the hospital and things turn out pretty well. Partner had to fly home and I drove the car. Partner bought me dinner a few weeks later. Took him about a year to get back to climbing.
The next time was easier. A doc I climbed with in Bolivia. We were doing an ice climb in NW Montana. He fell and broke both ankles. It was nice to have the medical help. Only had a couple of raps and then a crawl out. The doc was suppose to help fill in at the ER where my wife also covered. New rule at the ER was the providers couldn't climb with me.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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^ good idea clipping gear sling to harness
Hard rock, I can imagine the adrenaline rush/shock... any difficulty in reaching the injured climber?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Knowing your partner really well would be of great benefit in these situations. I have never had a situation like that presented by John in the OP.
But I have been in situations that were AFU, my partner was out of sight, and we could not communicate with each other. I knew my partner well enough to know what he would have done in a variety of situations, so I responded appropriately despite the problems. When we finally did get back together, he told me that he also knew that I would know what to do, and I did it. He knew just to sit there and wait for me jug up to him.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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The long write up where the leader landed on a ledge is a way different scenerio when you have a party of three versus a party of two.
And a blocky descent where there are ledges that the injured leader can be lowered down to and they can get all of their weight off the rope is also different.
I was thinking specifically where the leader is out of sight, weight on the rope, apparently unresponsive and there are not any ledges to lower down to. Thankfully, I think this situation is pretty rare. I'm not trying to say it is impossible to self-rescue from this situation, but I think it would be beyond the abilities of the average trad climber.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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but I think it would be beyond the abilities of the average trad climber As a caver, I see a lot of differences between cavers and climbers, despite the fact both cavers and climbers like to climb and like vertical work.
One major difference is rescue - cavers are really into rescuing each other, there is a national cave rescue organization, and most cavers get at least the level 1 training of cave rescue.
Cavers who engage in vertical work also spend quite a bit of time learning - and practicing - how to "pick off" an unconscious caver from a rope.
http://ncrc.info/
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Thanks SLR... I've learned tons of little tricks from cavers... and canyoneers, sailors, tree surgeons, slack liners ...
I like the different perspectives, and techniques.
V v v too true .....
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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That is a sad story about the woman who died, but there was nothing that could have been done. She probably died in 5 minutes. There was absolutely nothing that could have been done, and the nature of what happened is incredibly rare.
There is the old story about Duane Raleigh and his shoulder sling. He had just soloed a new route on The Organ in Arches NP. He leaned back for the first rap from the summit and was somehow not attached to his rap device. To this day, he doesn't know how in hell that happened.
He freefell for maybe half of the 400 foot route until an old tag line attached to a shoulder sling caught in a crack, stopping his fall. His tag line had somehow snaked into a crack during his fall and stopped him.
All he had left was the shredded tag line. The sheath had been stripped from much of it. He managed to use what was left and continue with it to the ground. I believe the rangers showed up, but he was able to self rescue from where he was, with the shredded rope. They put a spotlight on him so he could see what he was doing, because it was dark before he could recover enough shredded line to come down. And that thing is dead vertical.
Talk about should be dead. He has had a couple of other miraculous saves since then while ice climbing. They have some sort of nickname for him..whatever "Hard to kill" in Spanish is. I don't know if he soloes much anymore, though. He did on a daily basis back when we climbed together.
You have to add up the shear amount of climbing that he has done, though. He is in his 50's and still putting up hard routes. He climbs all of the time. So do all of the others at Rock & Ice.
He told me that a guy in Colorado recently died when an ice pillar he was on broke. Sad story.
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overwatch
climber
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I was practicing with the hitches BB posted about, very cool by the way, both the Hedden and especially the Blake. I was using an old rope that is fairly stiff and using the side tail to Penberthy back to itself failed. It just would not cinch down and bite. So I tried the same maneuver with the same rope but using the Blake and it worked great! Very handy, you can ascend the rope using just the side tail and a grigri. In fact the grigri is very useful in self rescue situations and is worth the weight in my opinion. It has many uses which is the criteria as to whether to include something in the kit.
Good s h i t BeerBreather! (No offense, messing with avatars is just my own little diversion)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:04am PT
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That is the most incredible save I've ever heard of Base. Did he have any thoughts to recount on his 200 foot freefall?
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