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John M.
Trad climber
Tempe, AZ
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 3, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
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You are belaying 4 pitches up on a difficult traditional multi pitch climb. The belay is at a tiny stance, so small you are basically in slightly more comfortable version of a hanging belay.
Your partner climbs up and 20 feet left around and over a large bulge and out of sight. You pay-out an additional 75 feet of rope as your partner progresses.
After a minute or so of inactivity on the rope, you feel yourself suddenly catching what appears to be a large fall. It's windy, but you did hear your partner scream during the fall. Your partner is still out of sight, and isn't responding to any of your shouts. Your belay is holding all of your partner's weight as far as you can tell. You fear she is completely unresponsive and in need of immediate attention.
You don't know the condition of the protection that caught her fall, the condition of the rope beyond what you can see, or what terrain lies above the bulge (other than what is on your hand drawn topo, which shows a finger size crack, a few small ledges, and a brief section of face climbing.)
...
What's next?
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Phone call. :-)
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MikeMc
Social climber
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I only climb with bros, so your example is nothing I'll ever have to deal with.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Review the beginning of Vertical Limit. If that doesn't answer your question, consider tying of the belay and going for a beer until your partner quits napping and joins you.
There's always the option of tying off the belay and going to see what happened. Course, that would depend on where you're climbing, whether anyone else is around, what kind of resources you have with you, etc etc. If it was me, I'd damn sure be trying to establish line of sight with the partner as a minimum. How to go about doing that would be very situationally dependent.
By your hypothetical description, it sounds like you would be about mid-rope, so if the two of you were fairly matched, you could follow the route, using the existing pro to clip into, with yourself basically on rope-solo. Additionally, if the partner's rope followed the route close enough, I suppose you could latch onto it with a prusik as well. Either way, what you describe is sort of a nightmare of a situation, right? So, either you've faced it, you truly are trying to be prepared for the worst case scenarios you can imagine, or you're trolling easy waters. Whatever the case, what-ifs can be fun.
What if, instead of holding your partner's weight, the line goes slack?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Lower the pardner until in sight, tie her off, then lasso the lass. Lower and pull in.
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WBraun
climber
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other than what is on your hand drawn topo, which shows a finger size crack, a few small ledges, and a brief section of face climbing.)
This is stupid.
A good climber always scouts the route before the ascent to get a good idea of everything up there.
Topo is useless without foresight ......
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John M.
Trad climber
Tempe, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
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Thanks Johnny and Rick,
I guess ya, I am trying to describe a worst case scenario. I am actually describing a pitch I climbed recently where I played out a worst case scenario in my head, and I didn’t have the answer, and it bothered me, alot. We were far from nowhere, and help other than my own wouldn’t have come for multiple days.
I've had the luxury of climbing with people much more experienced and stronger than me from the very start, but that has also put me on relatively hard trad routes in remote places maybe before I have some of the other requisite skills for big backcountry adventures. This was the first time I truly gave a solid introspective look at my responsibility to the people I climb with to be prepared for the absolute worst scenarios.
This alarming lack of experience and knowledge is my own fault, I get it. But I am trying to reduce my ignorance.
I've never epic'd, so outside of practicing at my house the basics of escaping a belay, which I understand and am confident I could perform in this scenario, and a few other super basics like the munter and prusik, I guess I feel like I would be shitting my pants without any idea of what to do to best help my partner.
I should have included that we are on a 50m rope, so in my scenario, we are probably beyond halfway point. No tag line. But even if we weren't, or had a second rope, I wouldn't know what to do to get my unconscious partner back to me because of the 20ft traverse I described. Rick, “Lasso the lass” doesn’t compute with me… What do you mean? Am I literally trying to throw a weighted bight of rope to "lasso" her somehow?
What is my first objective? Trying to get my partner from (presumably) hanging in space? Trying to get to a point where I can see my partner’s condition? Something else?
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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"Cut the rope. John! " "You're limping Ben."
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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First off John I assumed at least a 60 m rope-pretty much standard now a days. So if you're on a 50 m, tie her off and solo up the line using a prussik on the weighted rope to protect yourself (perhaps anchoring the rope to some pro points as you pass) to assess the situation. Might have to use any remaining gear on the gals rack, or in the crack on the way up, to set up another belay and anchor the injured off as comfortably as possible while you figure a way to either lower her off, or rap off to seek help. At a minimum always bring a second rope on remote multi pitch routes.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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You're a sick man Cosmic. LOL.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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First thing I'd do, go buy yourself a modern rope. I haven't owned a 50m since about 1999, and the 60s that get cut down become either my Joshua Tree rope or minitrax line.
Rick's solution of ascending the line is what I'd do, to the point you could see what's going on with the partner at least. I started writing how you could ascend the line, using the other half as a self-belay and clipping it through whatever gear was good, but then you added the part about it being a 50m and over halfway.
So you have little to no options. Get to the climber, rig a chest harness to keep them upright, stop any bleeding, go from there. If they need medical attention and cannot move on their own, you better start screaming and hoping someone is around. Otherwise you're into ridiculously complicated schemes of lowering or grabbing the rack from her, going back down to the belay, cutting the excess rope off, using the gear and rope fragment to rap to the ground leaving gear as needed for rap anchors, and calling a rescue.
That's a two minute version, top of my head, probably tons of holes in it.
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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I concur with attempting to ascend the rope on prussiks to at least assess the situation. If you are indeed able to reach your partner- first thing would be to try to get them upright, ABC's, stop and fix any life threats. After that, try and assess the top piece which is at this point holding the weight of both of you. Even if that piece is well above you, it might be worth putting in a good backup if one is available. Then re-rig yourself for rappel on the same single strand on which you ascended. At this point, if you simply clip a long draw from your belay loop to your partner's belay loop, and start rappelling, the rope will pull through the top anchor as you rappel and you will be able to rappel with your partner for the maximum distance the halved rope allows- although the best course obviously will be to stop and make a belay at the first good spot. Thinking ahead will save you trouble here, if you have an extra Purcell prusik on hand, be sure to use it to park your partner on the new anchor especially if they are not ambulatory or able to help. The Purcell is a release-able device so, if you believe you are able to continue assisted rappelling, you won't have to try and lift their dead weight off the belay, you can transfer tension to the rappel device using the Purcell.
For most climbs I now carry one 6mm Purcell prusik and one 6mm loop. The Purcell serves as a personal anchor for the descent, the loop as an autoblock, and in the event of a grim scenario such as this, it gives me a lot of options for rescuing my partner.
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overwatch
climber
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Take a class or get the books and practice with a partner using a belay back up. You might need a third person for this. The subject is too complicated and the scenarios possible are too numerous to learn it on the internet. Using standard terminology so that everyone is on the same page is also important.
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jstan
climber
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Agreed, getting your priorities right as soon as you can see the leader is important. One priority that
occurs to me may be to get your descent line back to the route you climbed. You know where to get
rappel anchors on the route. Getting out on an entirely blank or overhanging face four pitches up is
something to worry about.
You have only 60' feet of rope so letting any of it out is a big decision.
Absolutely worst case.
You tie off short the available rope at the belay and climb the lead rope to the top anchor. Rig a
backup and proceed to leg lift the hopefully light leader to that anchor. Put the leader on that
anchor and get the rope free. Rappel/pendulum back to the other end of the rope and retie it off as
long as possible. Climb back to the leader and tie off there so the rope is stretched as tightly as
possible between the two points so it acts a little as a tyrollean. You can then put the leader on
rappel with you counterbalancing her weight, both of you linked to the tyrollean. Do a simul rappel
till the stretch in the tyrollean puts you below the original belay. Tie off the leader, batman up, leg
lift her and tie her off. Now go back to the high point and rappel. Rope now free and you are on rock
you know. Resist the impulse of doing further simul rappels. Hell on the rope.
If the leader has a broken neck you are in a world of hurt. Wherever she is get her anchored with
the weight off her back, get the rope free and go for help if at all possible.
Edit:
Leg lift: Using the largest muscles we have to do physical work.
Edit2:
Letting all the rope out is a commitment/decision that cannot be reversed short of going to the top
protection, and being fortunate/able to set up a good anchor there. And the decision is based on
the mere hope that the leader will come into view. A view you can get without making a decision by
climbing a short distance up the rope. You never know. That sixty feet connected to the belay may
be enough to allow the leader to be swung back to the route.And in a real pinch you may have to cut
it off.
A trick I have found very useful in decision making. We generally make decisions thinking we
already know the answers. Before making a decision I ask myself, "What am I going to say if this
does not work out as I expect?" This leads to much better planning and better hedges.
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overwatch
climber
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Shouldn't need to "leg lift" anybody with proper use of load releasable hitches.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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At a minimum always bring a second rope on remote multi pitch routes.
Totally agree. Even if it's a thin-line, it gives you many options you don't otherwise have.
On routes like you described, particularly where you know that you may be out of earshot/eye-contact, it's well worth bringing a tiny walkie-talkie each. There's a huge element of not-knowing when you can't get a response to a yelled attempt at communication. Is your partner unconscious? Or is she simply unable to hear you? Can she hear you but is too wounded to yell back? Can she contribute ANYTHING to your self-rescue efforts? The questions go on and on. With electronic communications, you have better options to try to answer such questions.
Nothing is a silver-bullet, and devices can get damaged in an impact, of course. But I've found walkie-talkies extremely helpful on long pitches, even when they just make normal communication possible over the wind.
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overwatch
climber
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link it, yo!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv thanks, Mr. Stannard
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Use double ropes so you have more options, besides the drone and the phone.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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In all these sorts of scenarios it never hurts to have some rope soloing experience.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Since 99% of all the above is good advice... just lacking pix or diagrams
To the ExAcT scenario of the o.p.
Climber may be trying to make hard clip w/ drag... or trying to walk across a ledge... or is bleeding unconscious. .. or just chilling after a little fall...
So how about:
Let out rope Slowly... shout ...listen... lower..
repeat till response or sight or slacking of rope...
Then begin thinking of self-rescue. Maybe a good priority to get closest to partner, as make shift juggling sixty ft may take a LONG time, without lots of practice.
Please criticize
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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...without lots of practice...
Experience with various techniques counts in any scenario however you acquire it. Trying to self-rescue with no experience of any kind beyond belaying and climbing is going to be challenging.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Good thread.
Its one of the reasons KS and I frequently climbed with a double rope setup. That and we always had to do moderate routes with heavy rope frcition to accommodate my largess.
I had to self-rescue down 3 pitches with a female after rockfall wrecked her knee. Without 2 ropes, that task would have been nigh impossible. Especially since the rockfall basically severed one of the lines.
Even if you don't need 2 ropes for the climb, having a thin line in a knapsack with the powerbars isn't such a bad thing.
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John M.
Trad climber
Tempe, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2016 - 09:21am PT
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Many wise words above, and from the other thread linked...
A few more questions (for the exact scenario) **I agree we should have climbed with an additional line, and some sort of communication, like a beacon or sat phone. The fast and light thing certainly clouds sound safety judgement.
To me it seems like letting out some rope to hopefully get my partner to some sort of resting point above that bulge would be step one (and maybe, best case scenario, getting within shouting distance if she is conscious, or within eyeshot if not) after, yes, waiting a solid 5-10 minutes of inactivity and holding weight. No need to rush to any dire conclusions if communication could be obstructed by wind and distance.
Upthread, jstan said,
You have only 60' feet of rope so letting any of it out is a big decision.
My question is, what is the downside of letting out this rope? What options am I losing? Why is this such a big decision?
I probably have little to no gear on me aside from a cord, personal anchor of some sort, and a couple lockers, so to get off of a big route with a short rope, I am going to need a lot more gear. Essentially I am already committed to going up on a prusik and rope soloing, right? (assuming my partner is in fact unresponsive)
Is the only downside to letting out this initial rope that I am adding work for myself down the line since my partner is now further down from the piece that caught her?
This is where my logic starts to get foggy. Basically steps 5-10 on the other thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2274069&msg=2274164#msg2274164
It seems like I would just be giving up a few more pieces of gear since I wouldn't go as high up the route to get to her in elliot.will's procedure. (but this also confuses me, why couldn't I continue to prusik/solo above the injured climber to retrieve additional gear if it was needed?)
Thank you all for making this thread of high quality! It had a rocky start, ha.
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overwatch
climber
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you can use the back side of the rope, what they call the side tail, for many purposes including a substitute for slings you may be lacking and belaying yourself.
in fact with the Penberthy hitch you can transfer the load and escape the belay without any slings using the side tail
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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having to undo the rope from the anchor is probably the last and worst case scenario...
Johnm, I also wonder why not lower climber slowly... try to gain communication
If I was dazed in a fall, I wouldn't want to just be tied off...
Even if unconscious, better slumped on ledge?
Werner?
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overwatch
climber
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good post bear breeder and also in the other thread as well. I totally agree. does the addition of Blake and Hedden with the two hitches indicate a variation in the hitches themselves or is it just an alternative name?
I know the Penberthy and the Klemheist but I never heard those names added to it
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overwatch
climber
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so the first pic looks like the Klemheist/Mariner combo which I'm familiar with. as you said it is just upside down. There is actually no difference in how it is formed or am I missing something?
Thanks for the scoop on the Blake! Similar to the Penberthy but useful in more situations.
very cool and useful
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overwatch
climber
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okay man I get it now it took me a little bit. thank you that's awesome.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Thanks bunches bearbreeder, great friction hitches.
That last one should even work to use a too short guitar string
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Wow! Too cool... I've tried the zeppelin hitch, only works on low strings.
What do you think:
is lowering (presumed)injured, out of sight/communication leader to try and "ledge" them, and getting them closer to you a good protocol?
Most scenarios seem to imply simply tying-off an unknown injury
I once saw someone begin to lower haul bags onto the leader, leader runnout hand jamming the bottom of the stovelegs...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I'm all for thinking through different accident situations, but has anybody out there ever been in this situation and self-rescued? For many years (athough not lately) I read all of the Accidents in North American Mountaineering reports (and I would recommend all climbers reading them). I can't remember a single party self-extracting from the situation the OP described.
Anyone have an actual example?
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CCT
Trad climber
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A good lesson here is that both partners should always bring their cell phones, keep them charged, and hope they work. Another lesson is the leader must not fall on run-out alpine trad, especially when out of site of their belayer.
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overwatch
climber
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I remember reading that full account, tragic and moving. I know it was a heavy loss around here.
To answer that question myself, I say better to know it and not need it than need it and not know it.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Anyone have an actual example?
Not exactly the same scenario, but Celia Bull's rescue of Paul Pritchard on the Totem Pole in Tasmania comes to mind. I don't remembers the exact details, but it involved a him sustaining a serious head injury from rock fall, her rigging a mechanical advantage to raise him to a ledge to stabilize him and go for help. He wrote a great book about the accident and his long recovery.
Don't need those skills often, but when you need them, you really need them.
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overwatch
climber
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Multi pitch climbing.com is a great resource. Good link
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Thanks davidc, tons (TONS) of info to look at for me later..
I'm still thinking of the QUICKEST, yet still redundant way to reach an injured leader.
1. Tie off belay device
2. tie butterfly below tied off belay. Clip in.
3. Arrange anchor as needed for up pull with a master point, clip belayers end of rope So it is retrievable
4. Lastly free climb with leaders counter weight pulling you up... adding prussic if necessary (leader hits ledge or roof)
If you need more rope you could untie from end of rope, and either make a big slip knot cinched back to the anchor, or just untie and pull all the way thru if you need the extra rope.
Just thinking about some one with just minutes to live
Thanks for all the input
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overwatch
climber
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A big way to save time is to always have a multi-directional anchor.
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John M.
Trad climber
Tempe, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
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Overwatch, can you honestly say that you always build an anchor on multipitch climbs meant to withstand upward forces??? If I am honest, I nor anyone I have ever climbed with has done this... While it may be a good thing to consider while building an anchor (can I equip this anchor with a piece to accomadate an upward force) I think saying always building your anchors in this way is a very "lab test" perfect scenario way of describing how things should be done. Sure, anchors, in theory, should always be multidirectional, just as every piece we place should be bomber, but it isn't always and never will be the absolute case.
David c. What an awesome resource. Thank you for sharing that. Google was not as kind.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Lower them out into space and then pull them in with the tag line (didn't say we couldn't have a tag line, I always carry a tag line on boulder problems and trips to the library to check out some new audiobooks)
(this might be a joke)
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overwatch
climber
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When making anchors with gear on multipitch routes, yes I do, not hard or slow with practice. Bolt anchors are already multi directional.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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omni-directional anchors and a tagline are ideal, but I'd guess less than always used
I still think counter-weight free-climbing (prussic if deemed necessary) off a tied off belay device might be best... 90% of the time
Secure bottom rope end at anchor, climb with self-belay backup
The sad case of the strangulation in the hung up gear sling is so unique... had the partner jummared off the victim.. either she'd be pulled free and lived, or she may have died anyway.. them wondering if the jugging may be to blame.
Edit
Thanks,down beloooooowwww.
Probably easy to happen on low angles.. good argument against shoulder slings (which I love)
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Someone asked for an example. My partner and I were up 600 feet on Hallets in RMNP when he fell (about 30 feet). A lot of good info to getting together with your partner.
But that's only the first step. My partner had 3 crashed vertebra. He could move his legs. It was afternoon and the thunder showers. Lighting was all around us. We were getting wet so getting cold was in the future. Partner was doing well but I was thinking shock. So, I decided we would lower off. I would lower him 50 to 80 feet to a ledge. Tie him off. I then would rap. Tie him in and pull the rope. Repeat. Got to the base still in the light. Rope only hung up once near the bottom. Still light when we got to the base.
Was on an adrenaline rush for 4 hours. Got to the hospital and things turn out pretty well. Partner had to fly home and I drove the car. Partner bought me dinner a few weeks later. Took him about a year to get back to climbing.
The next time was easier. A doc I climbed with in Bolivia. We were doing an ice climb in NW Montana. He fell and broke both ankles. It was nice to have the medical help. Only had a couple of raps and then a crawl out. The doc was suppose to help fill in at the ER where my wife also covered. New rule at the ER was the providers couldn't climb with me.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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^ good idea clipping gear sling to harness
Hard rock, I can imagine the adrenaline rush/shock... any difficulty in reaching the injured climber?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Knowing your partner really well would be of great benefit in these situations. I have never had a situation like that presented by John in the OP.
But I have been in situations that were AFU, my partner was out of sight, and we could not communicate with each other. I knew my partner well enough to know what he would have done in a variety of situations, so I responded appropriately despite the problems. When we finally did get back together, he told me that he also knew that I would know what to do, and I did it. He knew just to sit there and wait for me jug up to him.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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The long write up where the leader landed on a ledge is a way different scenerio when you have a party of three versus a party of two.
And a blocky descent where there are ledges that the injured leader can be lowered down to and they can get all of their weight off the rope is also different.
I was thinking specifically where the leader is out of sight, weight on the rope, apparently unresponsive and there are not any ledges to lower down to. Thankfully, I think this situation is pretty rare. I'm not trying to say it is impossible to self-rescue from this situation, but I think it would be beyond the abilities of the average trad climber.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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but I think it would be beyond the abilities of the average trad climber As a caver, I see a lot of differences between cavers and climbers, despite the fact both cavers and climbers like to climb and like vertical work.
One major difference is rescue - cavers are really into rescuing each other, there is a national cave rescue organization, and most cavers get at least the level 1 training of cave rescue.
Cavers who engage in vertical work also spend quite a bit of time learning - and practicing - how to "pick off" an unconscious caver from a rope.
http://ncrc.info/
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Thanks SLR... I've learned tons of little tricks from cavers... and canyoneers, sailors, tree surgeons, slack liners ...
I like the different perspectives, and techniques.
V v v too true .....
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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That is a sad story about the woman who died, but there was nothing that could have been done. She probably died in 5 minutes. There was absolutely nothing that could have been done, and the nature of what happened is incredibly rare.
There is the old story about Duane Raleigh and his shoulder sling. He had just soloed a new route on The Organ in Arches NP. He leaned back for the first rap from the summit and was somehow not attached to his rap device. To this day, he doesn't know how in hell that happened.
He freefell for maybe half of the 400 foot route until an old tag line attached to a shoulder sling caught in a crack, stopping his fall. His tag line had somehow snaked into a crack during his fall and stopped him.
All he had left was the shredded tag line. The sheath had been stripped from much of it. He managed to use what was left and continue with it to the ground. I believe the rangers showed up, but he was able to self rescue from where he was, with the shredded rope. They put a spotlight on him so he could see what he was doing, because it was dark before he could recover enough shredded line to come down. And that thing is dead vertical.
Talk about should be dead. He has had a couple of other miraculous saves since then while ice climbing. They have some sort of nickname for him..whatever "Hard to kill" in Spanish is. I don't know if he soloes much anymore, though. He did on a daily basis back when we climbed together.
You have to add up the shear amount of climbing that he has done, though. He is in his 50's and still putting up hard routes. He climbs all of the time. So do all of the others at Rock & Ice.
He told me that a guy in Colorado recently died when an ice pillar he was on broke. Sad story.
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overwatch
climber
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I was practicing with the hitches BB posted about, very cool by the way, both the Hedden and especially the Blake. I was using an old rope that is fairly stiff and using the side tail to Penberthy back to itself failed. It just would not cinch down and bite. So I tried the same maneuver with the same rope but using the Blake and it worked great! Very handy, you can ascend the rope using just the side tail and a grigri. In fact the grigri is very useful in self rescue situations and is worth the weight in my opinion. It has many uses which is the criteria as to whether to include something in the kit.
Good s h i t BeerBreather! (No offense, messing with avatars is just my own little diversion)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 11, 2016 - 11:04am PT
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That is the most incredible save I've ever heard of Base. Did he have any thoughts to recount on his 200 foot freefall?
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