Armed Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ

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Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 7, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
Reassuring that Rep. Greg Walden supports the Paiute Indians getting their lands back! Surprising for a Republican. Did I miss-read or mis-hear something?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 7, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
I think this is real. It's not the Onion. I could be wrong. But it makes sense

http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-standoff-member-caught-drinking-donation-money/

Morale at Oregon Standoff Collapses After Militia Member Goes AWOL, Drinks Away Donation Money

Dylan Hock | January 7, 2016

The enemy within.


The week-long Oregon standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, already the butt of many jokes, is already falling apart due to infighting between group members.

According to a Facebook video that he has since removed from his profile, Cai Irvin, one of the gunmen holding down the federal bird sanctuary, claimed that one of the “patriots” walked off the camp to stay in a hotel and drink away the donations he raked in to be part of the insurgency.

The man in question is identified as Joe O’Shaugnessy, otherwise known as “Capt. O,” allegedly a member of the Arizona militia. Capt. O had been arguing with others at the occupation and ended up checking into a motel room Wednesday night where other pseudo-supporters have been staying.

Infamous anti-Muslim organizer and fellow Arizonan militant John Ritzheimer, also present in Oregon for the standoff, went over to the motel to confirm O’Shaugnessy’s desertion. Ritzheimer found him drinking alcohol paid for with the donations given to him by fellow “patriots” wishing to support the effort, according to disabled National Guard member and group spokesperson Maureen Peltier.

“Ritzheimer did call me – he’s f*#king pissed, he’s mad, he’s upset. He told me to tell all of you that Joe O’Shaugnessy is a deserter and a coward,” Irvin said.


Since several of the militants have been seen in the local area dining at restaurants even as the standoff remains underway, the fact that Capt. O went to stay at a local motel wouldn’t have sparked too much surprise, nor indicate anything out of the ordinary was afoot. However, Ritzheimer’s message indicates O’Shaugnessy may be the second “deserter” among participants of the poorly-planned Oregon standoff. One of the insurgents who has already run off under the pressure is Brian “Buddha” Cavalier, who likely fled in shame after the media reported that he had lied about being a Marine, with the Marine Corps itself revealing that they had no record of his service.

O’Shaugnessy also argued with his fellow “revolutionaries,” taking issue with the fact that women and children are present at an occupation where the militants have been attempting to goad law enforcement into a gunfight to the death.

But despite the tiffs and miffs between the group and O’Shaugnessy, members of the militant group say they feel betrayed by Captain O, who had also been party to the standoff at the Bundy Ranch last year.

Having learned of Captain O’s recent fiery thirst, Irvin said:

“It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa. Come on, man.”

O’Shaugnessy, however, is not exactly wallowing in his crowdfunded beer. Instead, he’s written a small statement on his Facebook claiming the Malheur militants are now running a “smear campaign” on him, presumably for calling them out on the presence of women and children at a would-be gunfight and storming off. Captain O said:

“Because I have been vocal about not supporting the actions taken by the individuals inside the compound apparently they have desired to launch a smear campaign against me. Even though I am one of the only Patriots on the outside doing everything I can to try and prevent this from turning into another Wako [sic] And making sure to protect the safety of all involved. To what I say my reputation is sterling.”

With two prominent members already gone or seemingly ousted, it seems this standoff may end with a whimper rather than a bang.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 7, 2016 - 09:46pm PT
Walden is pretty much worthless.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 7, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
If nothing else, maybe the NPS could just hire these guys to stay on in the summer for bird security, maybe to keep the place tidy after hours.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 7, 2016 - 11:42pm PT

Jan 7, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
If nothing else, maybe the NPS could just hire these guys to stay on in the summer for bird security, maybe to keep the place tidy after hours.

They'd want overtime.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 8, 2016 - 12:28am PT
Re the last two posts from fear & Lorenzo:


Jan 7, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
If nothing else, maybe the NPS could just hire these guys to stay on in the summer for bird security, maybe to keep the place tidy after hours.
From Lorenzo:
They'd want overtime

The payment problem is: those folks want to be paid in cash, preferably in advance, and the Feds take about a month, plus a lot of intrusive personal information, before they mail you a paycheck.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 8, 2016 - 05:30am PT
I disagree... if they cut off the road, in a few cold weeks these guys will likely gladly work for Cheetos and/or Oreos...

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 06:38am PT
Jon Beck- That video was top notch.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:08am PT
The original title to almost all BLM land lies with the federal government (us). The federal government (we) administer that land in ways that hopefully provide benefit to us all. The fact that some ranchers hold grazing rights to our land doesn't mean they call the shots.

I keep reading where they want the public land "returned", "reclaimed" and "taken back" to the states. Since the states never had title to these lands, how can they be returned?

It's rough out there farming marginal land. The BLM screws things up sometimes, no doubt. But if they find federal land regulations too onerous, then stop using federal land.

Gary, +5

Jon Beck video, +5

Oh yeah, and the article Alpinista55 linked around post 570 is excellent too. Thanks Jay!!




Treating these guys like special spoiled children!!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:28am PT
Perhaps I can put a climbing related perspective into this thread. Ever been tooled by a ranger in Yosemite? I think the ranchers have a similar perspective. Picture a crusty old rancher who has been raising cattle just like his father and grandfather did. He knows the land where he works like his backyard because it is his backyard. Along comes some kid from New York with a degree in biology and a job with the BLM. The kid has never seen a cow before starting the job. The kid's job is to manage the grazing but the rancher objects. The two don't get along but the green kid has the law behind him. Trouble ensues.

I resent the fact that I can't simply go to Yosemite whenever I want, camp wherever I want and climb whatever I want. Camping at the litter box on 140 sucks as does sneaking into the woods and hiding in a bush all night.

Perhaps we should get our guns and go occupy Yellow Pine campground because that place is over regulated and under utilized. We can run the place better ourselves. Maybe we can get Ron to be our leader and spokesman.

However, I can hardly imagine what a mess the ditch would be if people were allowed to do whatever they want. People are simply not capable of self management. Every square inch of the valley would be a parked car (with tent), motor home, trash heap, or turd. The trees would have long ago been consumed in campfires and wildfires. The deer and bears shot for the fun of it and left to rot. Sounds like a libertarian paradise to me.
couchmaster

climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:28am PT
Kahrmes, great Greg Walden vid. Thanks for posting it. Its all good but more relevant 6-16:50 min or so.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:33am PT
Perhaps I can put a climbing related perspective into this thread. Ever been tooled by a ranger in Yosemite? I think the ranchers have a similar perspective.


Yeah it's really frustrating. I mean so what my bonfire spread out into Tuolumne Meadows for the second time? This is supposed to be a free country!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:49am PT
He knows the land where he works like his backyard because it is his backyard.

I think the point is that it's not technically his backyard. He's renting it for very little, and then starts thinking it's his.
golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:57am PT
If the ranchers had all the land then there would be barbed wire fences and no trespassing signs all over the place. The Steens are a beautiful mountain range near there as is the Alvord Desert. I have camped and been through there many times, as well as visited the wildlife refuge. Of course where I camped there had been cow pies all over the place, but hey, its Central Oregon, its part of the experience. Years ago in the City of Rocks it was like that too.

What needs to be made perfectly clear, is that we the people, through the BLM are sharing the grazing rights to this land with the ranchers. The ranchers then have an obligation to be good stewards of that land. They do not own it, it is not theirs, and if they don't like the rules then they don't have to play rancher. BTW, I am sympathetic to ranchers as I came from a family that farmed and ranched in Utah. My dad was a large animal vet for ranchers.

These guys are emboldened because nothing was done in Nevada with their daddy. They should have been thrown in jail and it makes me angry that unarmed people in Urban Areas get beat up or shot by police, but these armed domestic terrorists are treated with kid gloves.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/post_229.html

That link that Werner put up is interesting. Here is what Col. Dingling had to say:

It was stated, dare I say, TAUGHT to me today by a close friend who is an ex special forces operator, that wars are not won by people taking rash actions such as the ones that have been taken here. Wars are won with proper planning. That sh#t hit me like a brick.. And I Will NEVER forget those words as that is the smartest thing I have heard throughout this entire ordeal.

1. Plan
2. Equip
3. Rehearse
4. Execute

THAT’S how you win a battle. THAT’S how you minimize casualties.. THAT’S how you win a war.

What a moron. This is how you climb a big objective. Plan, Equip, Rehearse (or train) and execute. He claims to be a Colonel and is just now figuring this out? Really?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:01am PT
After a careful reading of the second amendment to the constitution, I do not see anything that prevents the Fed Govt and/or various other govts from requiring that all natural born U.S. citizens be armed at all times.


Immediate implementation of this policy will end once and for all the debate about whether there would have been less killing if only there had been armed citizens present, no?


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, then-Secretary of State:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Why did Jefferson change the spelling?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:03am PT
They think the county sheriff has a lot of say in federal land policy? They seemed upset that the sheriff didn't want to negotiate their "grievances."
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:15am PT
The U.S. Marshals should be there, not a county sheriff.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Why waste the Fed's time?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:57am PT
Why did Jefferson change the spelling?

He didn't. The first version is the signed hand written version that sits in the National Archives. It is the official Law of the Land. Copyists changed the spelling and punctuation, which gives subtly different meaning, and printed versions followed that, including with fewer commas. That was more economical for type setters.

Interestingly, the version without the extra punctuation is the version quoted by the SCOTUS in District of Columbia v Heller.


Some states apparently debated and ratified the version with fewer commas, then signed the original.I'd have to go back and see which states those were.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Jan 8, 2016 - 09:15am PT
I don't know why I am so interested in this event. But I am.

Very interesting analysis (oddly published on a rogue financial website) here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-03/oregon-standoff-terrible-plan-we-might-be-stuck?page=1

Key terms are "Fourth-generation warfare" and "Asymmetric warfare"

Whatever the Bundys are doing, they are losing the war for "hearts and minds"
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