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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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A great read!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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From the Associated Press, March 9, 2016. . .
PORTLAND, Ore. The federal government on Wednesday leveled additional charges against Ammon Bundy and dozens of others who staged an armed takeover of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon. One weapons allegation carries the possibility of life in prison.
A grand jury indicted Bundy and most of his co-defendants on a new charge of firearms possession in a federal facility after the group seized the nature preserve in January to oppose U.S. land restrictions. Others are accused of a second firearms allegation, theft or damaging an archaeological site considered sacred to the Burns Paiute Tribe.
The new charges come as the government cracks down on Bundy, his family and others for leading armed standoffs in a long-running dispute over management of public lands in the Western U.S. Federal authorities have charged Bundy's father, Cliven Bundy, and several others in recent months with conspiracy, assault and threats in a 2014 armed standoff over grazing rights near the patriarch's Nevada ranch.
In a packed courtroom in Portland, the younger Bundy and others pleaded not guilty to the new allegations Wednesday. All 26 defendants were previously charged with conspiracy to impede officers of the United States.
Ammon Bundy's attorneys told the judge that he wanted to be advised of his rights. U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown denied the request, noting that they were read at three prior court appearances.
"I know I have no rights, so thank you," Bundy said.
He and eight others, including his brother Ryan, were charged with carrying a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, which has a maximum penalty of life in prison.
Oregon standoff in Harney County final hours: 11, 2016 file photo, authorities and demonstrators wait at the Narrows roadblock near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns, Ore. Dozens of armed occupiers who took over a national wildlife refuge in Oregon have been indicted on additional charges. An indictment unsealed Wednesday, March 9, reveals new counts against group leader Ammon Bundy and more than two dozen other defendants who were indicted last month on a federal conspiracy charge. (Thomas Boyd/The Oregonian via AP,File) MAGS OUT; TV OUT; NO LOCAL INTERNET; THE MERCURY OUT; WILLAMETTE WEEK OUT; PAMPLIN MEDIA GROUP OUT; MANDATORY CREDIT © Provided by Associated Press 11, 2016 file photo, authorities and demonstrators wait at the Narrows roadblock near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns, Ore. Dozens of armed occupiers who took over a national wildlife refuge in
Sean Anderson and a defendant whose name was redacted from the indictment were charged with damaging the tribal site "by means of excavation and the use of heavy equipment," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight said.
Three other occupiers were charged with theft of government property. Kenneth Medenbach took a Ford pickup, while Ryan Bundy and Jon Ritzheimer stole cameras valued at more than $1,000, the indictment says.
Prosecutors have said the armed group prevented government workers from doing their jobs and threatened violence against authorities that tried to end the 41-day occupation.
The judge scrapped an April trial date, agreeing with prosecutors to designate the case as "complex." The move ends the right to a speedy trial sought by the defendants. The judge cited the volume of evidence and number of defendants.
"I think any person looking at this room would have to concede this case is complex," said Brown, peering down at three rows of tables filled with men in prison garb and their defense attorneys.
Brown said she would wait until next month to schedule a date.
The indictment comes a day after a county prosecutor concluded that Oregon police were justified in shooting Arizona rancher Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, a key figure in the standoff who died during a Jan. 26 traffic stop that also led to the arrests of the Bundy brothers and others.
However, FBI agents are under investigation for failing to disclose they fired two shots during the confrontation with Finicum as he exited his truck. Neither of those shots hit Finicum. Oregon authorities say one of the two rounds hit the roof of the truck.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Good. I hope they occupy some federal territory for a long long time.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 10, 2016 - 01:09am PT
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You'll get no argument from me regarding eliminating subsidies. Let's start eliminating them tomorrow. All of them. How about we start with WICS. That work for you?
Great. We start with eliminating the oil depletion allowance, the mining depletion allowance, both on land you don't own, the subsidies for corn, wheat, upland cotton, rice, soybean, growing hay in deserts, and the farm income subsidy for not growing anything at all. Add the drought subsidies, tax exempt status for the NFL, MLB, stadium subsidies, and oh, yeah, I want back the $51 million we gave Volkwagen for producing clean cars.
Cut capital gain tax shelters for paying high interest on loans you make to yourself to turn income into Capital gains....the rich are the biggest recipients of free money.
And water subsidies...bust the Colorado River dams all to hell and let water flow to the sea again. Those damned desert dwellers can relocate to somewhere that makes sense. I'm not sure why somebody in a desert in Arizona should pay less for water than somebody like me who lives in a rain forest and me having to pay for it. It might be fun to see Jaguars in the river delta jungle like the conquistadors described.
Here in Portland we used sewer money dedicated to keeping sh#t out of the Willamette River to build a headquarters for the Royal Rosarians, whose sole function is to stand around in white suits at the Rose festival parade.
That's half a trillion dollars in subsidies each year. When do we start?
P
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Mar 10, 2016 - 05:33am PT
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Great. We start with eliminating the oil depletion allowance,...
It's more fun to let babies suffer with malnutrition.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 10, 2016 - 05:35am PT
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Gary posted It's more fun to let babies suffer with malnutrition.
How else will we foster the next generation of developmentally delayed adults with health problems and low job skills that we can poor shame?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 10, 2016 - 06:34am PT
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That's half a trillion dollars in subsidies each year. When do we start?
Is today too soon? Or should we hold off till after the weekend?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 10, 2016 - 06:39am PT
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Escopeta: "I'm totally not here to troll, guys. I'm an economist with Serious Business Questions About Liberty."
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 10, 2016 - 09:33am PT
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How far the collective wisdom has shifted that we can't envision a cessation of the "mana from heaven" mentality of across the board subsidy environment the US has fostered.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Mar 10, 2016 - 11:40am PT
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The 18 year old girl in the truck is part of a family singing group called the Sharp Family Singers (ie: The Osmonds). A lot of the people at the heart of this movement are fringe Mormons. Lavoy Finicum lived just outside of Colorado City (Warren Jeff's nutty polygamist town).
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The same mindset that does stuff like the protest ATV ride into Recapture Canyon. Theres a big problem in Utah with the locals raiding archaeological sites.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2016 - 11:49am PT
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The Sharp Family Singers are trying to get the attention of Leonard Pinth-Garnell
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 10, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
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Heartbreaker video Werner posted.
He was absolutely begging them to kill him. I wonder if being a martyr is all he hoped it would be.
So much for the pretend patriot lie that he was trying to surrender with his hands up.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Mar 10, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
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31 people charged so far?
Figure that probably 70% at least 20 people will be willing to inform on the various patriot movements they've associated with, in exchange for seeing the sun at some point in their future lives.
The 3%ers, Oath Keepers, militias et al. should be getting very paranoid at this point. I am going to guess that 50% or more of them, nationwide, are 1 or 2 degrees of separation from one or more of those charged.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 10, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
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So, out of curiosity, what exactly is it that they would "inform" on those groups? That they like to run around on the weekend and play Cowboys and Indians?
It's a pretty well known fact that most of the significant groups have Feds as members. Some under cover, others openly sitting in. So, is there something being hidden that these "informers" would have to offer?
These groups generally speaking are harmless (right now) which is why there aren't Feds lying around with perforations on a daily basis.
Or did you just say that so it sounds more mysterious and salacious? Which is fine, just wondering.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Mar 10, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
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you know that vid that werner posted just makes me sad...
mostly for the officers...
but also for the people in the truck...
while they brought on everything that happened, that video makes me feel like i'm watching a confrontation involving the mentally handicapped and/or emotionally ill...
and so regardless of their bringing this on themselves, they are/were human, and it makes me sad that fellow humans saw the world outside of themselves in the twisted fashion that they did.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 10, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
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Mar 10, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
Heartbreaker video Werner posted.
He was absolutely begging them to kill him. I wonder if being a martyr is all he hoped it would be.
So much for the pretend patriot lie that he was trying to surrender with his hands up.
6:13 of that video also shows our boy Ryan with a gun in his hand after Lavoy got shot. I could easily have been 2 dead or worse.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 11, 2016 - 06:25am PT
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A lot of the people at the heart of this movement are fringe Mormons
What movement would that be?
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Mar 11, 2016 - 07:31am PT
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^^ The movement they're talking about three threads over.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 11, 2016 - 07:38am PT
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nah000, I agree, I don't get the crowing and celebrating but plenty used to show up and
hurl insults at those about to be guillotined also.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 11, 2016 - 09:05am PT
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I wonder what will happen to the officers that claimed they didn't fired their weapons, but in reality actually did fire them?
Maybe their guns went off and they didn't notice? Lol
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