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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Subys are great for what they are (an affordable car with great awd). But I wish they could do better than average long term quality.
I wish their partnership with Toyota lasted longer so they could have taken advantage of Toyota's scale and R&D. My new Toyota doesn't even need spark plugs until 120K. The long life fluids (tranny, brake) last over 100K.
Since my Suby is a second car now I'd be tempted to replace it with a Lexus RX300 crossover mentioned earlier or maybe a highlander. It would be nice to have the extra room. But I'd be giving up the fun to drive factor. And if I sold my Suby my wife would want to buy a convertible. Not that that's a bad thing. But then I'd need to take my big truck whenever I needed awd/4wd.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Toyotas track record isnt as great as it was in the 80s or 90s. The Korean mfrs are taking over the quality and reliability marks.
Definitely would include the Hyundais and Kias in your searches, def worth a test drive. They are definitely worthwhile.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Ledge rat, give us your cars specs. Whaddaya mean "specs?" Year?
2003 Forester XS
Had the head rebuilt and timing belt replaced at 150,000 miles
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Exactly, the EJ powered SF,SG's are way different thatn the later SH and current SJ, mostly due to the FB engine coming in 2011 in the SH. They were way different animals then, built out of the GF Impreza to start, then out of the GG chassis, progressing to the current. Issues that took place with those are different than what the SH/SJ models have as issues. Its an apples and oranges thing. There were a lot more head gasket issues back then for instance.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Their partnership with Toyota was a bit misleading. They co-authored the BRZ/FRS, but otherwise it was a manufacturing partnership, toyota using the SOA indiana plant to do runs of camrys. Its now over, and SOA is having some trouble keeping up with demand for some models. Not sure of they are still, but they were very recently.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Check out the long term quality index I posted and read their methodology. I think it's the best indicator of how long cars will last and be trouble free. Better than anecdotal evidence. Korean cars are a little above average like subarus. Toyota/Lexus is still well on top. The land cruiser is the best and other Toyota trucks are very good. And most of their cars are good too.
Some good American vehicles too. Full size gm and Ford trucks are great. My F250 has 200k on it and it's still like new. Only needed a tranny rebuild at 160k.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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I doubt the relevance of most of those type of things. Esp JD Power and such. They rarely relate to the real world. Not sure I found the right one, can you re-link? Curious if theyve adjusted for volume for instance, where toyota would have everyone beat by sheer numbers alone.
My main point is that people, the owner of the vehicle, is the most important variable. Most people dont have a clue on how or how often a vehicle needs attention or maintenance, and how the concept of wearout parts work, and so on. Folks confuse simple upkeep with repairs or reliability. The average person then furthers it by negecting proper upkeep, having an issue or breakdown as a result, and blame the car due to their ignorance. They therefore get a skewed idea of how a car really is. The price of a reliable Tacoma or Outback is a timing belt/water pump every 90k miles. If you think about it its a small price to pay. Many folks dont see it that way, and dont understand how mechanical things work so they discount it.
Case in point is the syncro vanagons from the late 80's with the wasserboxer. The AWD system needs a maintenance every 20k mi(?) in order to maintain reliability. Many folks would buy these things and go off hippie tripping and neglect to do the maintenance due to cost or skepticism of the need. They would consequently have a breakdown and a much larger expense. Thus the stories of how unreliable these things were got blown out of proportion.
Ive seen people take the best of cars, from a Subaru to a Tacoma to a Corolla and on and on, and ruin them by having wrong notions about how to maintain a car. Whether its having imcompetent people do the work, or not following the mfr's actual maintenance regimen or not doing the maintenance in the first place (I know many who think that bringing your car by the jiffy lube for regular oil changes is enough, despite having issues with their car), folks either get it or they dont, and sadly, most folks fall under the 'dont' category. Some know they dont get it and just follow the mfr's maint schedule and have the dealer do everything. Good for them, theyve admitted that this isnt something youre in understanding of and you just take it to the pros so your car stays solid.
The variables are endless. But the human variable is the most decisive for sure. Who knows? That head gasket might have been secondary to an oversight or bad move on part of the owner. That bad wheel bearing could have been from the driver hitting something over and over during the cars life that finally made it fail. That clutch might be due to a driver whos unaware that they ride the clutch, or had pep boys work on their car, or a shady shop work on their car, or tried to cut corners to save $ and ruined things as a result.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Yeah Ive been reading up on my american trucks lately, picking out the years/models to get and to avoid. There are so many variances and such between the model years. What Im actually hoping to do, is to finish my lease in 2017, and either purchase a Chevy Colorado with the small Duramax diesel or its competition. It just became available this year. Im hoping it will A) prove reliable as the new Colorado/Canyon platform is looking good. and B) prompts Toyota and Nissan and Ford to pony up with a midsize diesel from their global market. Thats all the new Colorado is, its the global truck.
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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Own 2002 Subaru Outback. Bought it new. Have 156,000 miles. This Subby is by far the best car I owned ( based on lack of problems) in the 49 years of driving. Change the oil every 4,000 miles, have it serviced by Subaru and the only problem so far, was a faulty radiator cap at 87,000 miles, and recently, a faulty emission sensor.
I live in Idyllwild, CA. the winter weather hovers at 32 degrees and by sun down, the roads can get pretty slick with ice. The Subaru AWD is absolutely awesome in these conditions. Don't know much about Forester, but I would recommend the Outback fully, based on my experience.
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Randall_C
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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o new cars have issues at 20k...that's not really an endorsement for Subaru...
Not necessarily true. The Subaru oil consumption issues have been well documented at lower mileages than 20k. Take my friends 2013 Outback for instance. She began to have issues at around 16k and has been dealing with the excessive oil consumption problem for the last 10k miles with little cooperation from the dealership. She should have started the lemon law process - I'm not sure she did so.
Here is an interesting article regarding the problem:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
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Lanthade
climber
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I'm 2 years into a 2014 outback - manual transmission. Great car, lots of power once you learn where the power lives. Handles like a champ in the snow, I've been surprised at what it's let me get away with.
My only complaint against Subaru is that they have eliminated the manual transmission on new outbacks as of 2015. I would have happily paid more money for a sunroof, backup cameras, and seat memory but those weren't an option with a manual transmission.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2015 - 11:25am PT
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Anecdotal evidence (with lots of encouragement by me and one of my long-term climbing partners) drove my wife's desire for a Subaru. My wife is a nurse, and many of the docs with whom she worked told her that their Lexuses (Lexi?) were trouble-free for the first 100,000 miles, then less so. Their Subarus, on the other hand, lasted forever.
My only real concern about Subarus was the behavior of their drivers in the San Joaquin Valley. They tended to drive sanctimoniously at precisely the speed limit, regardless of their lane or the speed of traffic. Then again, the slowest drivers here drive Toyota products (except Scions) and Acuras, so I had developed a natural bias against those products.
John
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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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I have a 2011 Outback and, so far, I like it a lot. The metal seems thin in places, but it is well designed and has been good in snow and hassle-free.
My experience with a Forrester was also positive. We borrowed one to take some kayaks to a lake on a track with some steep whoops. Where other cars would have bottomed out, the Subaru Forrester was styling and it seemed to have a short turning radius as well.
I have heard about the head gasket issue and have two friends/suby loyalists who have experienced it.
Also, I have a friend who has pretty high mileage on his outback and had to replace his cruise control.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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After needing head gaskets on my 2006 Subaru at 110k I'm sticking with Toyotas or 4 cylinder Hondas
same thing happened to my buddy! he is a ford owner now..
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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An outback pulling an outback improperly. Most definitely frying the center diff by leaving 2/4 wheels on the ground to spin.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Tradein quality index just doesnt seem reliable to me. It doesnt account for any car that wasnt traded back in to a dealer. Im always skeptical of these sorts of 'ratings' as there always seems to be some catch of sorts. That and my personal experiences dictate the opposite, I live in an area with mosty subarus. They are quite reliable amongst the eleventy thousand that are in my world. That said, I know of many who have created problems (with subarus, toyotas, nissans, etc) by not handling maintenance properly, or by taking it to a cheap (read shoddy) shop trying to save a buck on labor. Its amazing, most local shops tend to give folks a 'great deal' on not fixing their car. Got a great price, but their car still isnt fixed....
It could be statistically significant, but the variables are far too vast. Car repair and ownership is one area that folks at large just dont do right.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Great thread here. So where does the issue stand these days between manual stick and automatic? My "go to" preference for smaller vehicles like the older Legacys (90's & 91's) has been the 5 speed shift whilst enjoying some of the newer, high-tech automatics on larger, cruisier rigs. I just love the control, compression on downhill, reduced wear on brakes, etc with the manual. Never liked the quasi "manual" mode of the automatics either; not the same thing.
Can you still get sticks on these cars? Do you want them?
Arne
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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My opinion is that the reduced wear on brakes idea gets blown up in clutch replacement costs.
Why channel the heat to a more expensive repair?
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