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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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About the worn shuts being "stronger". I remember reading something about the worn groove kept the rope at the bottom of the shut which kept the rope in line and prevented it from riding up the open side and bending it open. It was somewhere on ST, maybe a banquo thread?
Oops, wrong thread.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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^^^^^^^^^
Crunch,
you gotta love the design of that German anchor. Redundancy all the way to the single point of failure and then redundancy after that. Who designs these things?
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Yeah, that Euro single point anchor idea is just weird, all these bomber bolts then a single rap ring. Weird even if rings never wore down. Around 1999 or so we had Fixe make us a few "ASCA" trad anchors - the vertical ones with the two hangers connected by chain to a single ring - but we had them weld on a second ring on the lower hanger so it had redundancy (they probably thought Americans are crazy). Guess we should check them for the welded chain link, if we can remember where any of them are (I think one of them is at an upper belay on Stoner's Highway, and maybe there's one on the 3rd or 4th or 5th pitch anchor of the DNB?).
Never ordered them again since we didn't have the money, and we preferred re-using the original holes (old holes never lined up with the correct spacing - no surprise).
Edit: checked my old notes, looks like there are those ASCA double-ring-on-bottom-hanger Fixe trad anchors on pitch 4,5,6,7,8 anchors of Stoner's, and the pitch 5 anchor of the DNB. Anyone heading up there want to bring a camera and check on the welds on the uppermost chain links?
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Interesting to look at FIXE's ratings for the individual parts of their belay systems. Not easy to read the very light figures. These are for SS and the darker figures are for plated steel. The chain and the rings are the strongest parts. This is a page from an old catalogue I've just found in the depths of my desk:
What however is surprising is the angle at which they show the hangers - they will rotate and unscrew the nuts when loaded. I'm guessing this is just the draughtsman's error that has managed to get past their tech department?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Climb Tech bolt hangers were originally coming from China.
SS FIXE hangers used to be stamped 44KN but since the Fixe Bolt is rated to only 30KN, now the hangers are stamped 30KN to match the bolts breaking point. But the hangers themselves will still hold 44KN.
Climb X hangers had a bad batch of metal but that issue has been resolved. The Pitt Bull hangers on ebay are now being sold through Climb X.
The 1974 SMC hangers were over tempered and were cracking easily, and there are a lot of these still on the walls. If the SMC word is stamped horizontally you are dead. If the SMC stamp is vertical (sideways) the hanger is bomber (thicker metal).
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Marty- Those early SMC hangers were made from chromoly and not stainless steel which is why they fractured easily once deformed. The SMC folks claimed that they had never had a case of failure with their stainless steel bolt hangers placed properly when I made inquiries several years ago.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Thanks Steve. Many people have told me that they were cracking from being over tempered. But maybe they just assumed that. I replaced a few of these early SMC hangers on Sven Slab in the McDowell Mtns AZ because I could visually see the cracks under the rusty bolts. The newer SS SMC hangers are totally bomber. That 1970s rescue from Pinnacle Peak AZ where a climber decked off of the Requium was caused by a broken early SMC hanger.
Did you score that other Dolt hanger with the green tag?
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Marty, I've never heard from an expert source about the cause of the old SMC hangers cracking. I don't believe it is solely due to the materials choice of chromoly steel, as Steve suggests. I'm also skeptical that it is due to improper heat treatment. Chromoly hangers should be heat treated after the stamping and bending is completed.
I've long suspected that it is due to hydrogen embrittlement during the acid pickling and plating process. Hydrogen embrittlement is a well known problem affecting high-strength steel.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I don't get the fixation with useing the old holes for rap/ belay station replacement. If they are in the right place great. If the Fa did a botch job of it then the replacement crew has the opertunity to clean things up and do it right.
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pinckbrown
Trad climber
Woodfords, CA
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A photo of the two different SMC bolt hangers
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!