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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 12, 2016 - 11:44am PT
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(2 "True cause is Islam. You have blood on your hands for being an apologist."
Apologist? No.
Nature, do you believe this?
Werner, what are your thoughts on Islam in general, and what are your thoughts on LGBT?
I am no fan of religion, and in general, I say Fvck religion altogether. But to lump wahabism or radical Islam with all Muslims is wrong.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 11:46am PT
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Survival, I appreciate your speaking up about fundamentalist Islam and its doctrines and Islamism. But this...
I don't think there is anyone who denies that Islamic Terror is a problem.
C'mon!!!!
Werner, what are your thoughts on Islam in general,
lol
Eighth graders, what are your thoughts on Islam in general?
.....
"to lump wahabism or radical Islam with all Muslims is wrong."
and nobody but Trump and gang and rightwing extremists do this.
nuance based on being informed is required here
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 12, 2016 - 11:54am PT
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C'mon!!!!
Who, specifically, denies that Islamic terror is a problem?
HFCS, I know that you think religion in general is one of the roots of the problem, and I would agree. But would you say that all Muslims must be hated, or all religion must be hated? Is putting all religious people to death the compassionate thing to do?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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But would you say that all Muslims must be hated... Is putting all religious people to death the compassionate thing to do? -Survival
Is this REALLY where we're at - you and me - in the conversation?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 12, 2016 - 11:58am PT
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No, not at all. I'm just asking what your suggested solution is. We obviously can't exterminate all religious people.
Edit: My suggestion (not that it would ever be implemented) is that Muslims take back their own religion. KSA needs to get a grip on fundamentalism (Sunni Funds are just as dangerous, or more, than Shia Funds these days) Reject Wahabism in KSA, Reject ISIS loudly by Muslims around the world. Reject Imams in American mosques who are preaching hate, etc.
Too much to ask? probably.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 11:59am PT
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No, not at all. I'm just asking
So why would you even make such a statement? or ask such a barbaric question?
Your two posts and their respective questions are wildly different.
...
what your suggested solution is.
the problem is exceedingly complex. I'm sure you realize this.
The public far and wide should be able to discuss possible solutions without name-calling and ad hominem.
Obviously one start is to (begin to) distinguish between (1) criticism of Islamic dogma and (2) denigrating Muslims.
Obviously trying to have a discussin about these complex subjects on a public forum of rockclimbers brings with it its own complexities incl misunderstandings as well.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
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What is wildly different? And why did you cut off half my question?
***Yes, complexity is barely scratching the surface. And that's why I see Trump as dangerous as anyone out there.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
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So let's agree. We can't let Trump anywhere near the White House. His only public platform should be Twitter at most.
Yes, education is key. If not the keystone solution to all this.
....
HFCS, I know that you think religion in general is one of the roots of the problem...
btw, note if Abrahamic religion (esp C and I) were more like Buddhism or Jainism it wouldn't be one of these roots, not at all.
The whole shebang in its originial trad form is based on a warrior god, a warring theology, warring and subjugation. That makes it one of the roots.
If America were only half as theologically illiterate as it is scientifically illiterate (but thank goodness this is quickly changing now) it would get this immediately.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
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HFCS, +1
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
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Education is the answer...
Locker
+ 100,000,000
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
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(CNN)
The gunman who killed 50 people at an Orlando nightclub pledged allegiance to ISIS and mentioned the Boston bombing in a 911 call, according to a U.S. official.
Suspect Omar Mateen made the call more than 20 minutes into the attack, a law enforcement official said.
In the past, the FBI investigated Mateen for possibly having ties or being a sympathizer to Islamic extremism, according to a law enforcement officials and a U.S. official.
There were two cases opened on Mateen in the past, the law enforcement official told CNN.
The investigations didn't find evidence to charge him with anything, the officials said.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
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The investigations didn't find evidence to charge him with anything, the officials said.
and that IS one of the very real problems in trying to stop, in advance, terror
anyone, anyone, can buy a assault weapon advertised in any newspaper in the country without any background check required
so forget "gun control", even right after Sandy Hook congress failed to even require that
bottom line: government agencies such as Homeland Security, FBI, CIA are given billions and billion of tax dollars to do the best they can to sniff out and try to prevent acts of terror
they do catch some people ahead of time but with some 350 million people in America the fact is maybe we should be grateful that such mass murders do not happen multiple times every day
maybe that is our future, some say we can't do anything about it, it is the "price" for living in a free America with total access to firearms so just deal with it privately
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
(CNN)
In the past, the FBI investigated Mateen for possibly having ties or being a sympathizer to Islamic extremism, according to a law enforcement officials and a U.S. official.
There were two cases opened on Mateen in the past, the law enforcement official told CNN.
The investigations didn't find evidence to charge him with anything, the officials said.
And he got to keep his concealed carry permit?
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
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And he got to keep his concealed carry permit?
absolutely, he had not been charged with anything, same rights as you and I to carry
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
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Stupid Radical Islamic Terrorist
I hate those guys
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
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however, the more devout one gets in the faith,
The more one becomes like you?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
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Klimmer, go away.
Here's Obama. Not one mention of the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Not one mention.
Not one word, even so much as an adjective...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RFM9HdreI
If somehow the upcoming election is lost to Trump, this failure to accurately name a core component of this "terrorism" (just as the Right does) will be a factor in the mix.
...
Stupid Radical Islamic Terrorist
I hate those guys
Thank you, Craig.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 12, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
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Nature, do you believe this?
no I was +1-ing his image. I think you know by now you and I see pretty much eye-to-eye on most of this stuff. Same goes with HFCS
Until parents stop brainwashing their children with ridiculous LIES, it will continue...
dad, don't get me started! ;-)
Stupid Radical Islamic Terrorist
I hate those guys
WTF with the assuming here? how about
Stupid Radical [insert your choice of religion and their version of their imaginary friend] Terrorist
I hate those guys
seriously... Islam has no corner of the market in hating gay people. See: westboro baptist church
His dad is on record as stating he became very upset when he saw two men kissing.
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