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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
seriously... Islam has no corner of the market in hating gay people. See: westboro baptist church

C'mon!

Of course WBC does (eg, "hating gay people"). But so does radical islamic ideology.

Call it out. You're a lib, why don't you do this? Do you have any idea how many secular and liberal Muslims in the ME are under the thumb of fundamentalist Islamic culture and doctrine? who could use our help? instead of our (largely liberal) silence?

get real (modern, progressive, updated) on this issue. please!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Call it out. You're a lib, why don't you do this?

Fructose....

on a number of occasions you have maintained that "liberals" seem to have a problem with calling out radical islam

I know a hell of a lot of fellow liberals and every one of them has no problem whatsoever with that

where do you get that idea from, what people, did a couple of prominent libs in the media cycles refuse to call out radical Islam, I honestly then must have missed that and I read damn near everything he said modestly

but seriously? who are these libs you infer the rest of us libs from?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Craig, I had to turn the f*#king tube off (dad/locker taught me well) as I was ready to vomit. checked and seeing what you are saying. still, radical islam has no corner on the market for hate.


and i have no problem calling out radical islam. but f*#k those that will point to radical islam while ignoring their form of religion and the radicals amongst them.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
on a number of occasions you have maintained that "liberals" seem to have a problem with calling out radical islam...

Are you serious?

I just posted (last page) Obama's 5 minute response. Zero mention of "islamic" influence even as adjective (e.g. radical islamic terrorism, islamic extremism, Islamic jihadism, jihadist terrorism, etc)

Why don't you see/sense this? You must perceive that Republicans talk about Islamic this or Islamic that a magnitude more than Dems. So that's another way of looking at it.

Zero mention.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
and i have no problem calling out radical islam. but f*#k those that will point to radical islam while ignoring their form of religion and the radicals amongst them.

Really? Do we really need to do this? I'm supposed to defend my faith because another Muzzie listened to his Imam?

I guess you feel a need to equivocate my faith/your faith/whatever for another brainwashed child of Islam?

Maybe more Muslims should speak out in favor of gay rights. That would be a start, right?

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:13pm PT

Jun 12, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
And he got to keep his concealed carry permit?

absolutely, he had not been charged with anything, same rights as you and I to carry

Ah, yes. Second amendment. The threshold For concealed Carry is you can't be convicted of a felony.
( not what Florida handgun law says, btw)



No worries, then.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
Wait, another Chrissie thinks they're better than a Muzzie?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
Wait, another Chrissie thinks they're better than a Muzzie?


Better than that one? Probably. But hey, who am I to judge? I just try to stagger through life living as righteously as I can.

(it's not that hard, really)

EDIT:
I just try to stagger through life living as righteously as I can.

(it's not that hard, really)

This would be a fascinating discussion, the more I ponder it. Is living a "righteous life" as described by Abrahamic texts, really that hard? And what is that?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
President Obama and Hillary R. Clinton will not call out Radical Islamic Terrorism. They will not use those words, but that's exactly what it is. Why is that?

He just said it is "appropriately being investigated as a terrorist incident by the FBI."

Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?


Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
From Politifact

Presidents and Secretaries of State have to be much more careful in their selection of words than others, they are charged with maintaining responsible communication with other countries leaders, and the nuances of "islam" and "radical Islam" mean quite different things to Muslim leaders in the middle east.




"They try to portray themselves as religious leaders — holy warriors in defense of Islam," Obama said at the close of a summit on violent extremism Feb. 22. "That’s why ISIL presumes to declare itself the ‘Islamic State.’ And they propagate the notion that America — and the West, generally — is at war with Islam."

Obama went on to say "we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

This wording isn’t all that different from former President George W. Bush’s language following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and at the onset of the war in Afghanistan.

"This great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil," Bush said in January 2002.

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton prefers the term "radical jihadists," saying the GOP’s preferred phrasing "sounds like we are declaring war against a religion."

d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
Arc on the moon guy thinks its opinion matters.

bluetard quotes itself in the same post.

The thread that keeps on giving.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Norton I totally get that, I almost mentioned it myself.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4nIfLGqd9s

Oops, that wasn't the video I thought, but a good one nonetheless.
In another video, Fareed concedes that Obama as a head of state and politician has to treat the subject via language differently than others (eg, academicians, forum posters, electorates).

This subject like politics makes strange bedfellows. :)
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
Trump is not special to condemm radical Islam, Cosmic.

I am not aware of anyone who does not other than radical Islam.

What Trump gets so very wrong is that his brain does not understand
that radical Islam makes up a very small number of the 1.6 billion other
and peaceful followers of the religion of Islam
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
From Politifact

Presidents and Secretaries of State have to be much more careful in their selection of words than others, they are charged with maintaining responsible communication with other countries leaders, and the nuances of "islam" and "radical Islam" mean quite different things to Muslim leaders in the middle east.

This is the mindset that will continue to get innocents killed.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Found it.

Exactly this issue has been discussed by Anderson Cooper of CNN with Muslim reformist
(and former Islamist) Maajid Nawaz and Fareed Zakaria.

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/484505

I wish it were on youtube, couldn't find it.

...

Fareed Zakaria: The wording does matter, actually, in two senses. If you're a scholar, if you are trying to accurately present the phenomenon we're dealing with, of course it is Islamic extremism.

But the president of the United States is not a scholar. He's not trying to get this right in terms of the facts. He's a political leader. He's trying to ask, what is the most constructive way I can frame this so that I bring, you know, I attach myself to a large body of Muslims in countries like Indonesia, 300 million who are law abiding and non terrorists and don't, you know, don't demean them and their faith and ISIL, the extremists.

So I'm not going to play their game and call them Islamic leaders. I'm going to describe that the way I want to. They're terrorists. You know, in other words, if you're a scholar looking from the outside, you'd say, yes. You now, most of this violence is coming out of the world of Islam. So it's fair to call it Islamic extremism. The president is saying, I'm not going to legitimize them by calling them Islamic in any way.

So in a sense, both are right. The president is being a political leader. He's not trying to get at the factual accuracy here.

Anderson Cooper: Maajid, what do you make of that? Because the critics of the president's say, well look, unless you understand the enemy you're fighting, unless you call it what it is, unless, you know, you're able to fight this a war of ideas as much as a military conflict, you're not going to be able to truly defeat this enemy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1502/18/acd.01.html
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Cheesy Donald isn't going to do anything. One, he's not going to be elected. Two, even if he was, he's not going to stop a naturalborn, U.S. citizen from buying a legal semi-automatic rifle and handgun, and then committing mass murder with those weapons.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
^ Bingo!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Wait, you mean Captain Blowhard won't be able to stop homegrown lone wolf as#@&%es, even after the NRA endorsed him?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Nope. The NRA thinks every citizen , even somebody with known ties to isis, has a second amendment right to pack heat.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Interesting that this recent mass slaughter is a political topic. I've been listening to the talkers all day on/off.

The MSM is a big part of the problem. Their political correctness and their reluctance to call something what it is is telling. Their go-to topic was, "this brings up the a*#ault-rifle debate again". Really? Because they brought it up?

They are misleading us. The real topic is radical Islam. They will not bring themselves to confront it. And it will continue.

And many of you bury your heads as well for fear of being calling something. And that is part of the game. They use that to bully you into submission.

"you're a racist", "you're a sexist", and on and on.

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