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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 28, 2015 - 11:26pm PT
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THe three main man killers in Africa, Hippos, crocs and lions are routinely harvested by trophy hunters where they become deadly issues for local tribes. And the tribes get everything but the skin/skulls. Its a good working system there. Just an fyi.
Ron I try to avoid reading anything you post but read this by mistake.
I don't expect you to listen to anything I have to say because you are the worst kind of ignoramus. One who thinks he knows what he's talking about and is a blowhard trying to misinform others. And you probably have no capability to actually take a step back and consider that you might be wrong. It's much easier to be defensive, stick to your guns, and find excuses to believe you are right. In other words take the coward's approach.
There are so many errors in your statement I don't know where to start. But no point in pointing them out because you need to believe all your bullshit to keep yourself from seeing how wrong your beliefs really are.
Let me just say this actually true statement, the money from hunting in Africa (which goes to just a few people like govt. officials and guides) is a small fraction of that from non-consumptive tourism where people just view or take pictures, which is funding national parks and game wardens. Lion populations continue to decline. When the big animals are gone the tourists will be gone too and a huge source of revenue for these poor countries will be gone.
Edit to add: there's huge difference between allowing hunting/culling of overpopulated animals vs. animals in decline like Lions.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2015 - 04:25am PT
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Elcapinyoazz,
I'm glad you mentioned the mighty hunter / dentist's 2008 conviction for poaching bear in Wisconsin.
For the hunting of Cecil the Lion, Walter James Palmer claims he relied on local guide expertise and was confident the hunt was conducted in a legal way; however, his history and behavior demonstrate a willingness to try to bend the rules.
Ron,
I appreciate your perspective but disagree. I get it that the trophy hunting industry is structured to benefit the population of critters at risk, and that without it these critters may be at greater risk, but I don't think the numbers are there. That is, there are many more people bringing money into the economy by way of 'photo safari' hunting.
Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas and analysis of this sad event.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 29, 2015 - 07:55am PT
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There should be an open season on total d#@&%ebags like him.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jul 29, 2015 - 07:59am PT
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Endangered or not, what is the point?
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2015 - 08:38am PT
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jonnyrig,
I'm still learning about this and depending on the source you get different answers. The following article suggests the benefits from the managed hunting industry are overstated and that photo-safari is the way to preserve these critters.
http://www.ifaw.org/united-states/news/new-report-economics-trophy-hunting-africa-are-overrated-and-overstated
Local African communities are key stakeholders for conservation, and they need real incentives for conservation,” said Jeff Flocken, North American regional director, International Fund for Animal Welfare.
Non-consumptive nature tourism–like wildlife viewing and photo safaris–is a much greater contributor than trophy hunting to both conservation and the economy in Africa. If trophy hunting and other threats continue depleting Africa’s wildlife, then Africa’s wildlife tourism will disappear. That is the real economic threat to the countries of Africa.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Jul 29, 2015 - 08:44am PT
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Ron - do a bit of research. Ecotourism in gameparks in Africa brings in ~15 times the income of trophy hunting and that number is growing every year. There is no economic argument for trophy hunting.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jul 29, 2015 - 08:51am PT
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I think birth control will do more good than 500k
Just saying...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 29, 2015 - 09:07am PT
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I've only looked at the last page of this love fest and I didn't see anyone calling out the Arabs
and Chinese who are the ones driving the poaching and the corrupt African officials who turn
a well compensated timely blind eye. A d#@&%ebag American hunter is not even a drop in the
bucket. As usual y'all are arguing about a tempest in a teapot.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 29, 2015 - 09:46am PT
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Really hard for me to know exactly is going on over there. None of the sources listed for "facts" are unbiased in my view. "Facts" from the internet are hard to believe. But an alternative view to the pro hunting argument follows. From Wikipedia
Controversy[edit]
Lion hunting is a subject of controversy in modern times. Currently, the lion is listed as a vulnerable species by the IUCN, fewer than 40,000 survive in the wild, a reduction of 30% from the last two decades, mainly due to poaching of them and their prey, further influenced by excessive legal trophy hunting and habitat destruction.[7] Other reasons cited by opponents are that trophy hunting of lions primary kill large and prime males, leading to other males taking over the hunted male's pride, killing its cubs and possibly passing "weaker" genes, slightly decreasing lions' general size over time. Limits on which lions can be killed or how many are also rarely recorded or enforced.[8] Also, there's no proof that the fee paid by hunters actually significantly contribute goes to local communities, despite their claims, only 3% actually does.[9] Principles of fair chase are also cited, claiming that it's very easy to approach lions in some areas.[10]
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philo
climber
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Jul 29, 2015 - 10:58am PT
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In this day and age trophy hunting by it's very nature is a repugnant abomination and defending it is an act of self serving myopia. In Nature the predators never go after and take down the "trophy" animals they instead go after the week, ailing, injured and elderly thus insuring a healthier, stronger gene pool. The humans in their ignorance, arrogance and ego centrisity do the exact opposite.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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I think we can all agree that trophy hunters are lowlife pieces of sh#t, and anyone in that "industry" including guides, gun sellers and taxidermists are lowlife pieces of sh#t. statistics and internet posts about wildlife will never explain killing animals for "sport". You would have to be seriously f*#ked up in the head to think its ok to travel to other countries (or the US) to kill wild animals for fun.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:32am PT
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A hunter brings in $50k a photo safari couple brings in $10k. How many more people are going on photo safaris vs hunters with $50k to drop? I guarantee its more than 5 times as many.
I think hunting does have its place. And I understand the appeal of being a predator. But to think it can compare with ecotourism as a long term sustainable way to preserve African wildlife is laughable.
Wanting to hunt a Lion knowing where they stand in this day and age is lame. A cowards errand for those too afraid the really challenge themselves. They must arm themselves and kill something badass to try to prove their own worth. Pathetic.
Ad this discussion is about tourism to hunt in Africa. Yes there's much greater atrocities over there but thats another discussion. Not focused on the actions of Americans personal actions.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:42am PT
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The whole argument that something is not so bad because there are things that are worse is laughable and a pathetic attempt at misdirection.
People that kill for fun with zero risk are:
A. Cowards
B. People with serious self esteem issues
C. Psychotic
D. All of the above
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:56am PT
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Ron is wrong...as always. "A 2011 study (pdf) published by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature states that in 11 sub-Saharan countries, 272 million acres (roughly 14.9% of the land) is open to trophy hunting. Though hunters abscond with thousands of trophies each year, they invest only an average of 44 cents per acre. In some countries, like Tanzania—home to some of the continent’s lushest game reserves—they invest as little as two cents per acre. “The average contribution of hunting to GDP is 0.06%. This means they are the least economically productive lands in the country,” researchers found. “Trophy hunting does therefore not represent economically valuable land use, especially in the context of the need to abate poverty and hunger.” These reserves are essentially blood-soaked playgrounds for the rich."
http://qz.com/465691/cecil-the-lion-didnt-have-to-die-why-trophy-hunting-is-bad-for-africas-environment-and-economy/
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philo
climber
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Jul 29, 2015 - 12:03pm PT
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Completely BS????
Prove it wrong. You cant.
Your opinion is not a fact it's just an opinion.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jul 29, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
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Name calling Ron at it again, with no proof to back his statements.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 29, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
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Bill trophy hunting or the use of skins and animal parts as adornments has been going on since the stoneage, right up to N American Indian tribes, to modern day.
Juss sayin..
yeah. So has cannibalism. Rape and torture of captured women.
perfect, logical reasoning.
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