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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jan 23, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
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Fritz..If we tax the 1% ers too hard they will stop creating jobs and re-locate to Somalia...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jan 23, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
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I love sand...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jan 23, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
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Something about pounding it?
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the czar
climber
meyers, ca.
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Jan 23, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
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cesar chavez was born in the USA, by the way.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jan 23, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
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That was a Springsteen hit also...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 23, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
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there are two places where sand is not cool. Somalia is one of them.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 23, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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Private companies are in fact accountable to market forces and consumers who look for their own best deal, but certainly many functions need to be public.
I am not against private schools in bad districts. (Where do the wealthy democrats in DC, including the president, send their kids?)
I do not support public employee unions (Who is the union "protecting" the workers from?).
Private companies are in fact accountable to market forces and consumers who look for their own best deal, but certainly many functions need to be public.
The financial crises in nearly every states is a direct result of over-promised, under funded defined benefit pension programs.
Our immigration system is broken and laws on the books are purposely ignored. Should we just rescind immigration laws? What's your fix?
Accountability seems to be on the back burner to the public sector workers.
Another EPA scandal in Flint after the fiasco in Colorado.(A corporate officer would have been jailed)
Another IRS hard drive erased 3 days ago after a federal judge had ordered it preserved.(How many is that now? A corporate officer would be jailed)
This is crazy talk
you can find 2 public employees that you think should be fired??
That makes them accountable, they can be fired for screwing up
But the blame for the Flint fiasco goes to the Governor, not the EPA like Fox News wants you believe
"The financial crises in nearly every states is a direct result of over-promised, under funded defined benefit pension programs." Pure BS, it was conservative policies that spent the money when they were supposed to be putting it in the Bank
I didn't say anything about immigration, why bring it up?
Private Companies have rigged the system so they control the markets, the opposite of your Market accountability.
You think you have the power to influence the price of oil?
overall, it is just a bunch of delusional libertarian talking points
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 23, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
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Stalin, Mao, Castro,
were Communists, Not Socialists
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERERNCE
Almost all of the Western European Countries have Democratic Socialist Governments, they are not communists, they hate communism
They are doing way better than us when it comes to almost everything.
Communism is when the Country owns everything, and all the people work for the Gov.
Communism only works well for small tribes, not for Countries.
Democratic Socialism is when the Gov. pays for the commons only.
SS, Healthcare, education, science, clean water etc.
people work for the Gov. or private companies, just like we have here in the USA.
The Gov. does not make cars or computers, they are still made by private companies and capitalism goes on unencumbered.
The Gov. regulates companies so they don't harm the economy, humans or the environment.
Jesus espoused Democratic socialism, the people must take care of their own. Jesus is the archetype Progressive Liberal, believe it or not, his every fight was a fight for social justice and against the right wing establishment.
So why is that you can't understand the difference between Socialism and Communism?
Are you just stupid, or is it that you been brainwashed to believe stupid things?
What is it?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 23, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
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pyro posted
Ohh shit!
Poor and Lower Middle Class getting an instant tax hike of 30+%...
WOW how can that happen!?!
And immediately get to stop paying for medical insurance if they currently do, get medical coverage if they don't, get free education that would allow them to increase their income and whatever else was baked into that plan.
So basically a tax hike that pays for access to all the things that actually allow for socio-economic mobility. I'd take it.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jan 23, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
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With you there.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 23, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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HighDesertDJ! Per your post about Pyro's post on Bernies's budget.
Pyro can't read a bar chart correctly, he was Rong!
Yesterday Pyro posted this chart from the Vox website with no link shown.
And he included this commentary:
Ohh shit!
Poor and Lower Middle Class getting an instant tax hike of 30+%...
WOW how can that happen!?!
So-----now I have found the article on Vox and I can offer a link to their long and somewhat complicated article on Bernie's Tax plans. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates
I did disagree with Pyro asserting the poor & middle class would get an instant tax hike of 30%, but instead of arguing that he can't read bar charts, let me just quote the article.
If you add these taxes to the existing US tax code — including the income tax, Social Security payroll taxes, Medicare payroll taxes, and additional Medicare taxes added by Obamacare — you get the rates in the chart above. Most taxpayers would see a single-digit increase in their marginal tax rate. People with taxable income below $250,000 would see an 8.8 percentage point increase.
Bernie does want to tax the rich at higher rates & the ultra-rich at still higher-rates, but again the article mentions more of interest on that subject.
For the very richest Americans, with more than $10 million in taxable income, Sanders's proposal would produce a 77 percent marginal rate. That's not unprecedented — under Dwight Eisenhower, the top income tax rate was 91 percent — but it's higher than the top rate at any point since 1964.
Now, marginal rates aren't everything. Most people wouldn't see an actual tax increase of 8.8 percent, even if their marginal rate goes up that much. Effective tax rates — the amount you're actually paying as a percentage of income — also depend on deductions and credits.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jan 23, 2016 - 08:32pm PT
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Craig Fry posted
overall, it is just a bunch of delusional libertarian talking points
They are my own opinions. Just as valid as yours. None of this is science. If it was you could disprove counter factuals. Not possible.
And dismissing someone's opinions as "talking points" could be considered projection considering your overwhelming partisan positions. NTTAWWT :-)
I won't say you are guilty of "crazy talk", that any of your statements are "Pure BS, or "delusional".
You own those ad hominems.
I brought up immigration because it is a current issue, no? What's the fix, unless it makes you uncomfortable to say.
I post as much to have my idea's challenged as to practice the art of debate.
Can't say I take any of it as serious as you, but I respect your passion and understand your stances.
Fewer ad hominems would bolster your creds. Just sayin.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jan 23, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
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You know there is no end to interpretation of "the commons" Craig. Democratic socialism is but a way step on the path to a fascist communist or dictatorial communist state. Develop the testicles to admit your just a goddamn commie. Was your family planted here by the KGB in the fifties? Get with the times, even Russia has abandoned the dismal experiment.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jan 24, 2016 - 06:43am PT
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.....what utter bullsh#t....We've survived it before, heck even thrived and in fact our "golden years" were built on it.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jan 24, 2016 - 06:55am PT
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Larry posted They are my own opinions. Just as valid as yours. None of this is science. If it was you could disprove counter factuals. Not possible.
And dismissing someone's opinions as "talking points" could be considered projection considering your overwhelming partisan positions. NTTAWWT :-)
I won't say you are guilty of "crazy talk", that any of your statements are "Pure BS, or "delusional".
You own those ad hominems.
I brought up immigration because it is a current issue, no? What's the fix, unless it makes you uncomfortable to say.
I post as much to have my idea's challenged as to practice the art of debate.
Can't say I take any of it as serious as you, but I respect your passion and understand your stances.
Fewer ad hominems would bolster your creds. Just sayin.
Great post, Larry.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 24, 2016 - 09:54am PT
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Democratic socialism is but a way step on the path to a fascist communist or dictatorial communist state.
Republican capitalism is but a way step on the path to impoverished slavery under an oligarchy.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 24, 2016 - 10:20am PT
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I won't say you are guilty of "crazy talk", that any of your statements are "Pure BS, or "delusional".
You would say that if you had proof that what I claimed was proven to be wrong and nothing more than debunked partisan talking points.
Were is your proof that any of your opinions that you posted were factual?
There is none, it's just conservative opinions fabricated by right wing medias and Fox news
I listen to the right wing all day long, you don't know how many folks say the same thing and are then presented with facts that prove them 100% wrong
Pensions bankrupted the states??
show me some data, there is none
The pension money was spent rather than put in the bank, fact.
Contracts were broken, and by who? Conservative Governors.
Sorry I came off harsh, I just reflexively challenge talking points that I know for a fact as wrong.
Tell me again why Unions are bad.
You know Ronald Reagan was the President of the Actors Guild, Ironic.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 24, 2016 - 10:38am PT
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Unions have been under assault by the Right Wing from day one
Why?
Because they are one of the only groups of people that can take on the right wing Fascists
Regular working people pooling their energy behind a group that speaks for them, and works for them, and fights for them
and has the power to take on Corporations
and the Republicans working for the Corps that want less wages and less worker rights
And they have won, now the unions are gone, the wages suck, we are at the mercy of tyrant boss and the majority of people think unions are bad thing through the constant union bashing
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 24, 2016 - 11:34am PT
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You know Ronald Reagan was the President of the Actors Guild, Ironic.
Probably not a good example. He was a FBI informant who turned names over to McCarthy's House Unamerican Activities Committee while in that position. Not exactly a great moment in Unions.
And union busting started under his administration, starting with the Air Traffic controllers.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 24, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
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FLASHBACK: Ronald Reagan Called Union Membership ‘One Of The Most Elemental Human Rights’
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/02/25/146460/flashback-reagan-union-right/
Yet conservatives may be shocked to learn that their idol Reagan was once a union boss himself. Reagan was the only president in American history to have belonged to a union, the AFL-CIO affiliated Screen Actors Guild. And he even served six terms as president of the organized labor group. Additionally, Reagan was a staunch advocate for the collective bargaining rights of one of the world’s most famous and most influential trade unions, Poland’s Solidarity movement.
They don't mention him being an FBI informant
wasn't Bush I at the head of the FBI?
then I Goggled
public pensions bankrupting states no states have become bankrupt because of Public Pensions
other than IT May happen in Illinois, unless reforms happen, a Red State
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