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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
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More Truth.
This is how adults debate.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
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Madbolter, youi are clearly very, very both uninformed and misinformed.
Oh, yeah, that's clearly a problem I've always exhibited.
The Democrats never, ever during Obama's Presidency, had 60 Dems in the Senate.
I never claimed that they did. In fact, my arguments PRESUME that they did not, as I keep claiming that they clearly did NOT need 60 dems in the Senate.
What part of that do you not understand?
Pot calling Kettle!
For a very short period of time they had 58 Dem and need both Independents to vote with them to override the Republicans in the Senate.
WHATEVER they had to get Obumblecare through was enough; they could have done the SAME with single-payer. The SAME process could have been performed for single-payer, but THAT would have pissed off their corporate masters. So, Obumblecare is what we got, rather than single-payer.
For this you can blame entirely the Demoncrats, who, just like Rebumblecons, are OWNED lock, stock, and barrel.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:41pm PT
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Single payer panacea? Nobody knows. Under the ACA states can implement single layer starting in 2017. Let's see how that goes and if voters can be convinced to pay for it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:51pm PT
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That August West quote is dead-on.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:53pm PT
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Bernie shook Hillary's hand because he's an honorable gentleman, they are friends and he knows the e-mail baloney is an over-hyped partisan diversion by the Republicans. And he's honest. He's talking to thousands of people every week and nobody in his range gives a rats ass about the issue.
Then he's living in a "fools paradise."
It may well be the people he talks to don't give a rat's ass about Hillary's crimes, but a lot of voters will.
Hillary reminds me of this guy (who was a bit before my time, but I'm sure a lot of you remember this the first time around):
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 14, 2015 - 05:56pm PT
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That August West quote is dead-on.
Maybe, but if we all think and act that way, we are all F'ed.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Oct 14, 2015 - 06:01pm PT
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Hear you there,cannot understand anything but optimism .
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philo
climber
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Oct 14, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
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"Hillary's crimes"
What a laugh.
If you think emails are an issue look at Jeb Bush's use during his Governorship.
He actually did break the rules.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 14, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
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Say hey, don't badmouth Mr. Nixon, the greatest foreign policy president of all time.
Richard Nixon is generally considered one of the worst American Presidents - impeachment and resignation tends to have that effect. But his foreign policy record is more mixed. His accomplishments are among the most consequential of the Cold War, in particular, his opening to China in 1971 and his efforts at détente with the Soviet Union. Considering that these had been his two overriding priorities upon taking office it's even more impressive.
Of course the ledger on the other side is pretty ugly. It took Nixon four years to wind down the Vietnam War (with tens of thousands more American dead as a result). This came after he and his top foreign policy adviser, Henry Kissinger, had scuttled a potential breakthrough only days before the 1968 presidential election (an act that to the less charitable might be considered borderline treason). His decision to bomb and then later invade Cambodia led to the ascendance of the Khmer Rouge and the death of a million Cambodians. He escalated the bombing of North Vietnam to get a final peace deal, which led to horrible civilian casualties; and then when that deal was reached his political problems at home over Watergate helped to undermine the case for continuing to support South Vietnam. There was also the deposing of Prime Minister Allende in Chile, Nixon's virtual nervous breakdown during the Yom Kippur War (although Kissinger's subsequent shuttle diplomacy paved the way for the Camp David Accords) and, the stain of Watergate badly undermined the US image in the world.
From the narrow perspective of US interests, Nixon had important successes and might even be considered an above average presidency; but with the fuller range of human consequences of his policies is considered it's much harder to give him a passing grade.
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10b4me
Social climber
Retired
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Oct 14, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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My vote is still for Bernie because he is focused on what I see as the biggest threat to our democracy- the rise of power of corporations and ultra-rich to the detriment of most individual citizens.
IMO, that is hardly the biggest threat to our democracy.
Once again, you all are forgetting that the president can't do a whole lot unless he/she has a cooperative congress.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 14, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
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While there are lots of folks with health insurance now due to the ACA, it is not what it could have been. Any way you look at it, the act capitulates to the health insurance industry. The deal is sour and, in my view, Obama sold us a book of promises.
I say no deal is better than a bad one. He should have put the good deal on the table and let others vote it down. Is that getting nothing done? No, it's moving the ball forward, even if a little bit.
Why is it that the US is the only "Western" nation without health care for all? And don't just say "Republicans," cause that ain't it.
Now, tell me more about how great the TPP is for we 99%-ers...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 14, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
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IMO, that is hardly the biggest threat to our democracy.
10b, what do you think is the biggest threat to our "democracy"?
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Oct 14, 2015 - 07:25pm PT
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I am about ready to join the "nuked threads" list, you Tards!
I merely stated at the outset that "we weren't ready for Bernie"
but now you all have to go and make it all "political" %^)
Can't a guy make fun of a long-shot without the sh#t-storm?
You guys (and it IS "ALL GUYS" FYI) just stick to your regularly formatted Donald/Hillary/Jeb circle-jerks, and leave an honest man alone.
Fukking Jackals.
Oh, and thanks August West.
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John M
climber
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Oct 14, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
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get a grip Eric.. It wasn't that bad today and I'm usually one of the ones to complain. There was actually some conversation today, but do whatever you want.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 14, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
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10b4me
Social climber
Retired
Oct 14, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
My vote is still for Bernie because he is focused on what I see as the biggest threat to our democracy- the rise of power of corporations and ultra-rich to the detriment of most individual citizens.
IMO, that is hardly the biggest threat to our democracy.
Once again, you all are forgetting that the president can't do a whole lot unless he/she has a cooperative congress.
Or better yet, He/She "Cooperates/Works" with Congress. NOT against.
Good post 10b.
PS: I concur that corporations are NOT the biggest threat to democracy. But some corporations such as Monsanto, are indeed a threat to Mankind as a whole.
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John M
climber
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Oct 14, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
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LOL.. okay.. I still haven't figured out your sense of humor.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 14, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
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Erik....
Corporations/Banks and DC are NOT a new thing. They have been around and have played a heavy hand since oil and the railroads first came on the scene back in the late 1850's. Hell, the Slave Traders and Tobacco Growers etc. had "Clubbists" in DC influencing major legislation and policy back in the late 1700's.
Here is one proposed to comprehend all the functionaries of the government executive, legislative & Judiciary, all officers of the army or navy, governors of the states, learned institutions, the whole body of the clergy who will be 19/20 of the whole association, and as many other individuals as can be enlisted for 5. D. apiece. For what object? One which the government is pursuing with superior means, superior wisdom, and under limits of legal prescription. And by whom? A half dozen or dozen private individuals, of whom we know neither the number nor names, except of Elias B. Caldwell their foreman, Jedediah Morse of Ocean memory their present Secretary & in petto their future agent, &c. These clubbists of Washington, who from their residence there will be the real society, have undertaken to embody even the government itself into an instrument to be wielded by themselves and for purposes directed by themselves. Observe that they omit the President’s name, and for reasons too flimsy to be the true ones. No doubt they have proposed it to him, and his prudence has refused his name. And shall we suffer ourselves to be constituted into tools by such an authority? Who, after this example, may not impress us into their purposes? Thomas Jefferson 1822
http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/founders/default.xqy?keys=FOEA-chron-1820-1822-02-25-2
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