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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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No more Dick's nut tool.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Donini is talking like an old sailor.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Caitlyn Jenner is a self proclaimed Christian and registered Republican.
Perhaps she doesn't fit your personal definition of Christian.
Meanwhile Hucklebee is resolutely marching backwards.
The former Arkansas governor made the comments while discussing religious liberty in February at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Nashville, Tennessee.
“For those who do not think that we are under threat, simply recognize the fact that we are now, in city after city, watching ordinances say that your seven-year-old daughter, if she goes into the restroom, cannot be offended and you can’t be offended if she’s greeted there by a 42-year-old man who feels more like a woman than he does a man,” Huckabee said.
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Huckabee said. “I’m not against anybody. I’d just like for somebody to bring their brain to work some day and not leave it on the bedstand when they show up to govern.” Good advice
So now he's afraid Caitlyn is going to molest a seven year old girl in the women's toilet? How is the girl going to even see what Caitlyn's private parts are? It's not as if they'll be standing side by side at the urinals.
Surely he's got transgenders confused with that Evangelical Christian Dugger paedophile.
By the way, according to reports Caitlyn hasn't yet had The Surgery. Huckleberry had better watch his back.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I didnt see crag say anything like that..
So Klimmer.. Only non-sinners are Christians? Thus there was only ever one christian? It's a bad thing to say someone is not a christian no matter how bad a sinner you think they are.
I'm not a fan of the judgmental /unforgiving/intolerant versions of Christianity.
If the bible has a problem with this then the bible is wrong. Which is not big news.. it has many glaring errors in it starting with different genealogies for Christ.
Now when I die if there is a Jesus and all that.. then we will have a talk..I'll be glad to admit I have been a d#@&%e in many ways in life undoubtedly many ways I'm not aware of....he better have a solid explanation for having a problem with gay or transgender people .. but I suspect he doesn't regardless what the bible says...That is assuming he exists.
Looking good Caitlyn! I really hope you are enjoying your life and are excited and happy with the changes you have made.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Who knew a superstitious religious nutjob / political moron would have so many liberal supporters here on the Taco?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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One only needs to read the bible to find understanding..
A couple truths to not forget, Mr Jenner is a FATHER of 6. He can NEVER be a mother.
Those are simple physiological facts. So what does constitute the difference between a Mr and a Miss? Is it only the physical attributes. Seems that would be the picture Ms Jenner has portrayed. Seems like if Mr Jenner was truly a female at heart back in the 80's he would have had a closer more nurturing relationship with his children. By their testimonies he just up and left! History shows us in single parent households, most of the time it's the man that flees the family. And very few women will choosenly leave their offspring. Seems like if Bruce was any kind of real person he could have used his femalinaty along with has masculinity to help raise his children in a positive loving manner.
Serious question; putting the physical aside for a moment, what would be the characteristics that a boy would have that would make him believe he was a female??
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Yeah Her kids have done so horribly in life eh? NOT!
They might not be your cup of tea (they are not mine) but those kids seem to have done unusually well so far. Successful in difficult careers, raising kids of their own now..haven't heard of terrible issues with drugs or other destructive behaviors. Seem like decent people.
Lot of people do waaaay worse.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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That's nice, but it doesn't attain to my question.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I don't know blue.. I can guess some things but it's not been my particular issue.
I'm quite fine with accepting that it is a serious issue for some people.. I hope they resolve it well for themselves. Life is an adventure for all of us. Each have their own issues to deal with. I won't pretend theirs are not serious for them. I wish all well. I certainly don't want to add to the difficulty.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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To me it's a fascinating case, particularly as Jenner has pushed this issue squarely into the public's face.
What attributes of a "person" do gender pronouns really reference? Are we talking chromosomes? Are we talking "look and feel?" Are we talking "as reported from the inside?" The list of such questions is lengthy.
Here are a couple of interesting articles, both of which press on the fundamental question of what attributes our gender pronouns might or might not pick out. And beware of "common sense!"
http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/transsexuality.htm
Anybody claiming to "know" at this juncture is being pretty arrogant. I've studied this stuff more than most, and I would not even imagine to claim that I "know" what's going on.
So, far be it from us to be judgmental. And here, "Christians" would do well to be sober, calm, and not "Bible-thumping!"
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Bad Climber
climber
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GDavis wrote: When people say she is brave they are referring to the fact that she's been going through this transition since the late 80's and decided to go public with it to allow herself to live her life normally without being harassed by paparazzi chasing her everywhere she goes.
I see your point, but as someone else said, Jenner is maybe even more about chasing the limelight than anything else. I heard a great transformation of the old Socratic truism: The unexamined life is not worth living.
Modern TV/social media/24-hour-news-cycle/selfie edition:
The unwatched life is not worth living.
Mz. Jenner is doubling down on that paparazzi business.
The positive spin, which may have some weight, is that hir show and ultra-broadcast transformation will ease the transition for other transgendered people and, perhaps, ease the bigotry as well.
I'm with other posters here: Jenner had to have some courage for making this public knowing many, many people would find newly-her a freak.
BAd
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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If you really in your heart of hearts believe that this is all one big marketing ploy I don't know what to tell you. There are hundreds of celebrities in the limelight, from Iggy Azalea to Floyd Mayweather to Schwarzanegger and every other 'name' that pops up on tabloids.
Why does Jenner get this hate, why do we question her more than others? Why is this persons intentions being judged as if we know?
We are a prudish country and our culture is in the dark ages when it comes to acceptance of other lifestyles and understanding of gender identity. You are all looking to yourselves for the answers instead of exercising empathy and that's the problem. It doesn't matter what YOU think or what YOU would do.
It isn't surprising me that the majority of the crass and terrible comments are coming from posters who are openly religious - western religion is the biggest reason why trans people aren't accepted in our country and are treated like pedophiles and sickos when they are just humans going through some rough sh#t.
I hope to meet some of you in person and have this discussion. After talking to my family about it after a kid in my high school decided to end their life rather than face these questions they understood. Maybe you will one day, but doubtful.
http://endtransdiscrimination.org/PDFs/NTDS_Report.pdf
41% of trans individuals attempted suicide according to a 2011 study.
Maybe not be shitty?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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It isn't surprising me that the majority of the crass and terrible comments are coming from posters who are openly religious
they can sit with their heads inside the big book Bible..
as for Caitlyn I feel bad for that accident he got himself into a couple months ago killing an innocent person..
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Again, that's not all posters, as many like Crag are open minded and understand that everyone has their own walk. I just get a bit frustrated seeing people who I respect have such antiquated ideas of how to treat trans people : /
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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"Oh, Little Big Man, I don't know which is worse, being marginalized by crazy people for my gender choice or for my ancestry."
"Let's go see if Old Lodgeskins has some vittles. We can talk it over with him.""We are a prudish country and our culture is in the dark ages when it comes to acceptance of other lifestyles and understanding of gender identity."--GDavis
Ironic, but there it is.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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About twenty years ago I was sent to Germany on an assignment to cover a male-to-female transgender surgery. I spent ten hours, gloved & gowned, shoulder-to-shoulder with the surgical team in the OR. In addition I did an extensive interview with the surgeon (a woman, if that matters), and also with a psychiatrist (a man, if that matters) who dealt with transgender issues.
What is interesting to me in the current debate, both here on ST and in the US in general, is how little it has in common with Germany twenty years ago.
To put it simply, in Germany at that time, there was no debate. Both society and the medical community seemed to accept that the sense of being born in a body of the wrong sex was a real, and serious, issue, and that one treatment for it was transgender surgery. It was simply no big deal.
Not that anyone could just walk into a hospital and get a sex-change on the public dime. To qualify for the surgery, patients had to be certified as requiring it by two separate psychiatrists, and also to have fully lived life as the opposite sex for a period of two years.
The theory seemed to be that it was in the interest of the country to give these individuals what it took to make them economically and socially productive members of society. Better for them, better for the country, and cheaper in the long term.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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If you really in your heart of hearts believe that this is all one big marketing ploy I don't know what to tell you. There are hundreds of celebrities in the limelight, from Iggy Azalea to Floyd Mayweather to Schwarzanegger and every other 'name' that pops up on tabloids.
Why does Jenner get this hate, why do we question her more than others? Why is this persons intentions being judged as if we know?
He's using a personal decision to get as much attention as possible.
Hey Everybody! Look at me! I'm a woman...
with a dick
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crankster
Trad climber
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Edward, you're making a fool of yourself.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Edward, you're making a fool of yourself.
Can't hold a candle to those Kardashians and Jenners.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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It is time to stop judgements of gender at birth. Individuals should decide for themselves as they mature rather than have their gender decided by whether they are born with a vagina or penis.
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