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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Bill,
TBI = Traumatic Brain Injury, ABI = Acquired Brain Injury (i.e. not born that way).
John,
Good thing you have 2 usable arms, even though one is weaker.
The reason I like the chain hoist is that it is already assembled, and it doesn't drop you if you let go. The normal version probably has too much mechanical advantage, so it would just take too long to lift your torso.
So I like the Superwinch better. Fast, and nearly as low cost as the chain hoist ($72). Although you would probably want to look it up to AC power so you don't have to put a battery on it, so add some $ to get it wired in.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015U6VLQ/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687502
I think you would want it (or an eyebolt if you prefer using climbing gear) installed above the outer edge of your bed. That's the location to transition from standing in the walker to sitting/lying down.
For the chest harness, I still think it would be good to have something like a cloth seat from a swingset with metal triangles on each end.
You clip them together when you want to hoist.
Unclip and lay the thing flat on the bed under you for sleeping.
Although this chest harness by Edelrid looks pretty minimal, too:
Are you going to need a secondary hoist to get your legs into / out of bed?
I am thinking if you can walk with a walker, you still have the hip strength to move them.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Touché I am well cuffed in brilliant style and can tell from the tone that you can understand,
The spirit of my last post , if not then I am sorry that I offended you.
The thing is I have attended to or been there, and seen the rigs used to move severely
Injured, some comatose some full aware and frustratingly fully paralyzed.
Also I have visited hospitals as I mentioned.
The advise from C. Cummins is considered sage around here, in case you can't tell.
large flat straps are used in various places one being operating rooms to move patients
After surgery.
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 02:43pm PT
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Jim Brennan -- Thanks for your thoughts. Now that I can sign on hopefully I can provide more pertinent and detailed information.
Regards, John
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
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couchmaster -- I guess Clint defined the acronyms for you. Just type TBI or ABI, same thing, into a search engine. Find a link that Looks promising for discussing potential symptoms. I suffer from most. Among other things, it's like having a 135 IQ and in an instant going to a 120 IQ. I'm sure there are plenty of climbers who suffer from this, maybe unknowingly. There are also thousands of vets suffering with this.
No tick issues.
Thanks couchmaster.
Regards, John
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
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Clint,
Based on another posters comment I searched your name. Thanks for taking the time to help me. Are you still at Stanford? Funny story about Stanford and my youth, but that's for another time.
Yes, 2 'usable' arms are vital to me. Without both I'm like a plane with one wing. That's why the busted arm and succeeding paralysis of the same arm screwed with me so much. Both injuries forced me to be in bed or a wheelchair. Before those injuries I walked with a stick/cane and drove. After I've been on a walker and not driven mainly due to a loss of muscle memory and loss of just plain muscle throughout my body.
To your last question, yes I can get into bed on my own and up until a few days ago I could with some difficulty get out of bed. The problem is I am always messing up one part of my body or another that prevents me being able to exit the bed solo. Most recently it feels like a bulging disk really sparks when I try to pull with my left arm and roll onto my right elbow/forearm. Don't really know if that is the issue, I just know it hurts and prevents my egress from the bed.
Regarding my legs, they become a more difficult issue getting out of bed. Minimal abducters, a right hip that should be replaced but can't because the knee, ankle and foot on that leg are too hosed, a compromised lower back and spine and I can't come close to ONE situp (there are more issues, but I'm trying to keep it simple) combine to make getting out of bed an unwelcome but necessary event.
A person posted this on Rock Climbing:
"A sewn loop of webbing will work nicely for a sleeping harness. You may need to try different lengths to fit your chest but I would imagine a 24" loop would be about right and worn as you described as a figure 8 with the 'x' on your back. When you are ready to use it just clip the ends into the caribiner at your chest.
As far as rolling to your sides and getting your legs off the edge of the bed I imagine another loop of webbing would work. You could loop around one or both legs with a short runner rope to attach to the rope at the proper distance. This would allow your legs to be pulled toward the edge of the bedjust before your chest assisting in getting into the seated postition.
My first thought was to just girth hitch your legs with the loop and then clip to the runner. If reaching the proper place on your legs to girth hitch would be an issue you could place one on each leg when getting into bed. The nylon webbing is supply and would be pretty much un-noticed while sleeping."
I know I'm 'pushing' back at a legend (respectfully), but the hoist, without any disrepect, might be efficient, but it doesn't address my legs and rotating everything 90'. If I am forced into a sitting position with my legs in front of me, I can't move them.
Site unseen I know it's near impossible to visualize what I can and can't do. My hope, and it may be misguided, is to pick the communities brains and actually learn some climbing terms, equipment setups and lots of pictures. Then see if I can put something together that ultimately will work for me. A plus is that it challenges my brain, and my brain needs work. Also, in my mind it seems a rather elegant solution to a mundane task and I like that.
This Petzl harness is something like a figure-8 jury-rigged I imagined:
Thanks very much Clint. I appreciate and respect your help.
Regards, John
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 07:19pm PT
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Gnome -- No worries. I got it. I just thought I'd spoof a little back-at-you.
Regards, John
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 11, 2015 - 01:05am PT
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John,
Thanks for posting the additional details.
I was wondering if you might have lower back problems.
These could affect the way you run a hoist.
You might need to get into a light back brace for the hoist.
I did that back in the day for many months after my T12 fracture.
I could roll into or out of the back brace while in bed.
But I had fairly good use of my legs for this.
If your hip muscles are too weak to move your legs to the edge of the bed,
you may need to use some paraplegic type tricks to do it.
Saw you use a hoist to get into a sitting position in bed.
If you have some pajama pants on, you could use a "grabber hand" to reach
down and grab a pant cuff near your ankle, and bring it to the edge of the bed.
Maybe you already have one of these (helpful for putting on pants if you can't bend over far enough to reach your ankle). I have one from the days when I had to wear a back brace except when lying down in bed.
This is like the one I have:
Another way would be something like what fng posted on rockclimbing.com .
He suggested girth hitching a sling to each leg/ankle, but those could be a hassle to put on and take off.
Instead, you could use a long sling which attaches to the edge of the bed,
and your legs are put on top of it when you get into bed.
Then to "eject" your legs, you pull on the sling. I'll post some photos.
I have a website at Stanford, but I'm not an employee or a student there. I have an old friend who is a Prof there who sponsors it.
 Clint
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 11, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
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Clint,
For me the second setup in your series of pics looks like a more doable leg solution. Simple and effective. Cheers.
Regards, John
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 11, 2015 - 02:36pm PT
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Cool, John, glad you like that second setup.
I can send you that 1" webbing, sling and biner in a box if it's a hassle to get it.
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perswig
climber
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Mar 11, 2015 - 03:08pm PT
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I think I have that Petzl chest harness; if so and if it looks to help your setup, I'd be glad to mail in out. Let me check the gear stash tonight.
Dale
edit: affirm on the Petzl harness; if this can be of use and someone's pooling gear, let me know (perswig at aol.com, ST PM FUBAR for me).
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
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You are all blowing me away with your help and generosity.
Clint, Perswig. THANKS!
Hold off sending anything, I'm still formulating a strategy.
The first thing the occupational therapist asked me was "You'll have to learn to write allover again, so which hand do you want to use?" I was still in bad shape, but it had become apparent that the damage to my spinal cord had left the motor neurons affecting my right side slightly worse off than my left side. Conversely the sensory neurons affecting my right side were marginally better off than on my left side. Confused? I was right-handed, yet movement on my right side was somewhat worse off. Without hesitating I said my right hand, because it is the weakest if I don't use it the discrepancy will just get greater.
I have thought about that over the years. I made that choice because my step-father was a jock and supported any athletic interests I had. I remember early September 1960 he said one morning "Let's take a ride". "Where?" "It's a nice day, I thought we would just drive up the coast, maybe get breakfast." "Sure Dad." He 'snaked' me. About an hour later we are parking in front of Hobie Surfboards in Dana Point. I'm this amped little 10 about to be 11 year old kid walking into the Hobie shop to order a new custom surfboard. $115 he paid. That was a chunk of change in 1960. I was buying damaged, cracked top or fingerprint, Sam's Cheesecake for 50 cents a piece back then. If you knew San Diego in the 50's and 60's, particularly Mission Beach, You knew Sam's.
Sorry about that mind trip. I guess I wrote it to emphasize that his mentoring was not forced, it was more nurturing.
Early on I learned the importance of first focusing on strengthening your weaknesses. That's why today my scribbles are still right handed.
I sometimes take forever to get to what I want to say. My brain drifts.
The Petzl harness was an example of what I think I can jury-rig using 1", 2" or 3" tubular strapping. This link describes the device: http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/47/frogrvsd.html
Wait and bear with me on this.
I saw this setup, similar I think to what Clint first mentioned as a possibility: http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Jug.htm
My wifey is splitting in about a month to go on a 2 week cruise with her mom. I'll be home alone. My recently further aggravated back that has prevented me from getting out of bed without wifey's help for the last handful of days is what has driven me to ask your help in devising a 'foolproof' method of exiting the bed no matter how f-upped my back or whatever is. I understand nothing is perfect, but I've been finding ways to get by for over 46 years. I am confident it can be done again.
Here's the real kicker. If I fall down or go down what I call 'softly', sort of a unintentional 'controlled' descent, I can't get myself up. I wear a cheap clam-shell phone around my neck with some numbers of some younger stronger guys that when I'm down I call and wait. I don't want to have to wait, sometimes for hours. I think I only need a few spots around my 'territory' since I don't even visit half the house. These spots would consist of a similar(?) setup to the one by my bed. The trick is I wear my jury-rigged figure-8 harness with a carabiner pulling the loops together at my chest. I can wear it over or under my shirts (I wear button-up). That way when I am down I can slither to one of the devices, hookup and pull my self upright as long as I get a suitable mechanical advantage to have the strength to hoist this old body. I swear I think it is possible if I set it up right. WHEN it works I'll be MORE independent.
Am I crazy and deluded? Might I actually improve my life? Hey, this excites me.
Please humor me on this last point. I appreciate that you provided what you feel, with minimal knowledge of my complete situation, is the best solution to the issue I first asked for your help with. But chain hoists and winches somehow have the 'smell' of giving up the walker and being upright for the safety of a wheelchair. I can't help it. Ropes, pulleys, carabiners, ascenders, strapping, etc. seem more flexible, intellectual and elegant.
You have all inspired me.
Regards, John
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jwcwilly
climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 14, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
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I apologize for my last post.
Slap me up alongside my head when I get off issue, which is to get me out of bed. Right now all else is secondary.
Clint the leg-moving setup looks simple and effective, but I will add that piece when necessary. Right now I can make do without.
Now I need to settle on my setup. If necessary I'll get a chain hoist as a backup. My timeline is getting shorter and I need to start putting sh#t together.
Thanks all. Sorry for getting off track.
Regards, John
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