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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 18, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
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You know that saying about the definition of insanity? Repeating the same action, and expecting different results?--the Die Hard Apogee
It kind of seems like your harp needs to be restrung, Apogee.
What is your problem? Manstruation cramps?
Gnome--When is the bass season in Cuba's lakes--or do you not know? Can we get a straight sentence from you on anything?
A simple yes or no is a complete thought, an acceptable sentence. :0)
I get all the sugar that I need from a small store here which sells productos de Mexico. It's called peloncillo. It's a little "cone" of brown sugar that only goes in my Vietnamese coffee. Muy sabroso.
Susan--I am certain that you may have a chance to go back to the days before the Soviets stuck their member into "our" hemisphere. "Our Man In Havana" is one helluva read.
I look at another immigrant population that fooled everyone when they got here to the USA, the so-called melting pot nation...the Hmong people, from Laos, as well as Cambodians and Thais, all up-rooted by US militarism and the CIA, who were only not following orders, but moving smack.
The biggest reason that Cuba had casinos and prosties and the rest is (quite possibly--lots of room to debate this) that nobody had any reason to stop them from doing just what they did. I'm talking about "The Boys," some of whom were simply "innocent investor(s) living on their pensions," in South Florida of all places!
I applaud Mr. Obama's efforts. I deplore the opposition's need to step in front of a train.
You know what they say about the definition of insanity, don't you?
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Rolfr
Sport climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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Dec 18, 2014 - 08:39pm PT
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I will not be holding my breath for any significant change, Whoopee now you can bring home $100.00 of cigars. Congress still has to approve the removal of sanctions, doubtful if that will happen any time soon.
Just a PR exercise, nothing will change till both Castro dictators die, their human rights violations are on par with N Korea and their population live in fear. Communist Cuba is still communist.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Dec 18, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
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I have not followed events in Cuba, so can someone direct my attention to what the nature of the human rights violations occurring in Cuba is?
EDIT: Thanks for nothing.
So what is being talked about is torture, political imprisonment, government killing and other forms of repression?
Seems like I've heard that before.
Cuba is clearly in the bottom half of the distribution but its record has improved somewhat over the past two decades. The graph also highlights two Communist countries with whom the United States has had troublesome relations. Critics of the policy change highlight North Korea, which has a much worse record than Cuba, which has gotten even more atrocious in recent years. Vietnam, emphasized by President Obama in his speech, is a better comparison. Indeed, the two countries have a nearly identical human rights record according to this measure (it may be different if we would focus on other rights than physical integrity rights, which include torture, political imprisonment, government killing and other forms of repression).
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crankster
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 06:26am PT
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Smoke a little BC bud, Rolfr...pretty grim assessment, yours.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 19, 2014 - 06:48am PT
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"I applaud Mr. Obama's efforts. I deplore the opposition's need to step in front of a train."
Ummm, I do too, mouse. Think we're in the same camp.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Dec 19, 2014 - 08:41am PT
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Guess those that live there and actually fight the f*#ked up sh#t going on there don't really no what they are saying in the statement below. They just don't get it I guess.
Cuban Dissident Leaders React to Obama's Announcement
Cuban dissident leaders react to President Obama's announcement to normalize relations with Castro's dictatorship:
"Sadly, President Obama made the wrong decision. The freedom and democracy of the Cuban people will not be achieved through these benefits that he's giving -- not to the Cuban people -- but to the Cuban government. The Cuban government will only take advantage to strengthen its repressive machinery, to repress civil society, its people and remain in power."
-- Berta Soler, leader of The Ladies in White.
"[Alan Gross] was not arrested for what he did, but for what could be gained from his arrest. He was simply bait and they were aware of it from the beginning... Castroism has won, though the positive result is that Alan Gross has left alive the prison that threatened to become his tomb."
-- Yoani Sanchez, Cuban blogger and independent journalist, 14ymedio.
"The Cuban people are being ignored in this secret conversation, in this secret agreement that we learned today. The reality of my country is there is just one party with all the control and with the state security controlling the whole society. If this doesn’t change, there’s no real change in Cuba. Not even with access to Internet. Not even when Cuban people can travel more than two years ago. Not even that is a sign of the end of the totalitarianism in my country."
--Rosa Maria Paya, daughter of murdered Christian Liberation Movement leader, Oswaldo Paya.
"[Obama's announcement] is horrible and disregarding the opinion of [Cuban] civil society sends a bad message. The acceptance of neo-Castroism in Cuba will mean greater support for authoritarianism in the region and, as a consequence, human rights will be relegated to a secondary role."
-- Antonio Rodiles, head of Estado de Sats.
"Alan Gross was used as a tool by the Castro regime to coerce the United States. Obama was not considerate of Cuban citizens and of the civil society that is facing this tyrannical regime. In Miami, Obama promised that he would consult Cuba measures with civil society and the non-violent opposition. Obviously, this didn't happen. That is a fact, a reality. He didn't consider Cuba's democrats. The betrayal of Cuba's democrats has been consummated."
-- Guillermo Fariñas, former Sakharov Prize recipient.
"The Obama Administration has ceded before Castro's dictatorship. Nothing has changed. The jails remain filled, the government represents only one family, repression continues, civil society is not recognized and we have no right to assemble or protest... The measures that the government of the United States has implemented today, to ease the embargo and establish diplomatic relations with Cuba, will in no way benefit the Cuban people. The steps taken will strengthen the Castro regime's repression against human rights activists and increase its resources, so the security forces can keep harassing and repressing civil society."
--Angel Moya, former political prisoner of the Black Spring (2003).
"We are in total disagreement with what has transpired today. It's a betrayal of those who within Cuba have opposed the regime in order to achieve definitive change for the good of all Cubans."
-- Felix Navarro, former political prisoner and co-head of the Cuban Patriotic Union (UNPACU).
"It's discomforting that the accounts of the Castro regime can grow, as the first step will be more effective repression and a rise in the level of corruption."
-- Jose Daniel Ferrer, former political prisoner and co-head of the Cuban Patriotic Union (UNPACU)
"This is a betrayal that leaves the democratic opposition defenseless. Obama has allied himself with the oppressors and murderers of our people."
-- Jorge Luis Garcia Perez "Antunez," former political prisoner and head of the National Resistance Front.
"I feel as though I have been abandoned on the battlefield."
-- Dr. Oscar Elias Biscet, former Cuban political prisoner and U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 08:44am PT
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The wheels of change are spinnin', d-clod, there ain't no going back. Look to the future, not the past.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Dec 19, 2014 - 09:10am PT
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Oh that Obama, he is a sneaky one. You see, our Kenyan born mooslim socialist has no intention of bringing democracy to Cuba. His anti-American agenda involves bringing commie-ism to the godly USofA.
Rush and Bluey were right about Obummer!
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:04am PT
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I'm not looking to the past I'm learning from it. I do not trust Communists and I will not start now. This has nothing to do with making the life of normal every day Cubans better. I truly do hope I'm wrong though.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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John, I am not sure that I understand the chest beating about Cuba having won.
They did win. They defeated the US in armed combat.
So did Viet Nam. And they shouted it from the roof of our embassy.
And we survived that just fine.
So, basing a foreign policy on a fiction, to probably the detriment of our country, makes no sense to me.
Obama actually ran the first time on altering the relationship with Cuba. He took some minor steps in his first term (and, GASP, our country did not collapse). Clearly, there is NO possibility now, of Congress dealing with this, so it is time for the President to do the only thing that he can. And he did.
Frankly, I think it is long overdue. If it had been done 30 years ago, we'd be arguing NOW about whether Cuba should be it's own state, or part of Florida.......
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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By the way, those who walk in fear of Raul Castro, and what he will be doing.......
He is 83 years old. I don't think you'll have to wait long for regime change.
I hear that one of the Castro daughters might be in line, and is much more a pragmatist.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:41am PT
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Lost in all this is an appreciation of where this comes from. President Obama considers one historical US politician to be the role model he tries to follow.....Lincoln.
People are all up in arms about Obama changing the relationship with our enemy.
Lincoln said: "If I change my enemy into my friend, have I not defeated my enemy?"
It's a process. It will take time. but it is not unprecedented.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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“To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
― Sun Tzu
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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I am your enemy ......
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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I thought desire was the enemy?
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
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As a traveller, I'm looking forward to my trip to Cuba, and interacting
With the people there.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Dec 19, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
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What were Castro's three biggest legacies to the Cuban people?
Breakfast
Lunch
Supper.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Dec 19, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
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“To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.”
― Sun Tzu
"We have met the enemy and he is us." ~ Pogo
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Dec 19, 2014 - 07:27pm PT
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A truly sad day for the poor enslaved Cuban people.
....because they had it so great under Fulgencio Batista, ( and Meier Lansky, and Sam Giancana)...
Who we put in office and supported against Castro until 1959. Then we supported Castro.
In fact, Batista came to power in a coup with the help of US embassador Summer Wells. He then ran for president as a Democratic Socialist ( think who democratic socialist countries were) with the help of the formal Cuban Communist party.
Obama had nothing to do with it.
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