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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2019 - 08:34am PT
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This is great.
It will never work in Pussy sterile America with it's 10 billion st00pid rules on everything .....
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Chaz
Trad climber
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Jan 10, 2019 - 08:45am PT
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... in Soviet Russia, wood burns you. What a country!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 10, 2019 - 09:27am PT
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Ever heard of a snorkel stove? Wood fired hot tub. Redneck spa. I want one.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 10, 2019 - 10:13am PT
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^^^
Beauty. Do you use it, Walleye? Did you have to restore it?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 10, 2019 - 11:00am PT
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Hoe man I love that bucket setup....
Functional too.. imagine the iron mass there once heated.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jan 10, 2019 - 12:10pm PT
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yes indeed on the snorkle stove.
have no worries about the functionality of the firebox as long as it has adequate flue height and never ever fails to remain submerged.
deployed in a basic tub, an awesome thermocline develops, meaning toes freeze while a scald line across the shoulders defines the water level. a bucket for bailing in place or a paddle is primitive solution #1 for off grid use though the condition is quick to return. a thermometer reading is one thing in a freshly stirred bath, well before the end of the session a wide range of temps will be recorded based on depth ... so circulation is an issue that wants to be addressed.
the initial h2o temp determines the proper fuel load as will regulation of the burn rate in order to achieve a target temp at a future time. it's an art to time the doffing of clothes just as the (stirred) h2o temp reaches optimum given the lag time it represents vs. the stove output curve which takes on it's own trajectory absent some pretty attentive intervention.
it's disappointing to stand wet and shivering alongside the tub, evicted because it's either to hot or too cold while it's proceeding to get either hotter or colder depending. meanwhile it's definitely separating hot from cold in the vertical sense while you wait.
perfection is the intersection of two independent functions as they chart themselves over your intended bath schedule. it's a very satisfying skill to master
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TLP
climber
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Jan 10, 2019 - 12:43pm PT
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Classic wood stoves are certainly cool looking historic relics, but they belong in museums and not in use. A few years back I looked into the subject and it turns out that, assuming proper installation and use (which are probably rarely achieved; and this doesn't count the smoke that billows out during ignition), an EPA "phase 2" wood stove emits only about 1/3 as much smoke as non-EPA stoves. That's still a LOT of smoke anywhere you don't have 20-acre or larger parcels. And the continually expanding scientific record is clear that the health effects are a lot worse than formerly thought, especially on children, older folks, and anyone with otherwise compromised health.
In addition to the fire hazard from chimney fires or incorrect installation, there's another huge fire hazard from the stored firewood itself, namely, ignition by flying embers from wildfires that have gotten into communities and become urban fires. Anecdotal and other evidence from several recent (last 10 years or so) fires in California and Colorado shows that a lot of houses that burned were lost because there was firewood or lumber stored in the yard, which ignited into a raging blaze that couldn't be controlled even by fire crews who were right there and well equipped. Not an issue everywhere, but where it is, you definitely want the firewood stash enclosed in a manner that totally precludes access of embers.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 10, 2019 - 12:50pm PT
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Thanks hooblie, your experience with the snorkel answers a lot of questions I had about operating the thing. Even without the water factor a woodstove does require some experience to operate properly. It is more difficult than just building a roaring campfire. I have seen a couple setups using different tubs but never seen one actually being used. One of the more interesting was a galvanized tub ranchers use to water their stock. At first glance I thought it was a way to keep the water from freezing. Overkill? I figured it out when I heard about the snorkel stoves. Great idea.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 10, 2019 - 12:57pm PT
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Yes TLP, I agree with everything you say. Why are the still used so much? Economics. Heating costs and infrastructure issues in depressed rural areas keep these dinosaurs going. Look at China. Not just heating but cooking food. I wish there was an easy solution. Forget about how cozy they are.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Jan 10, 2019 - 07:20pm PT
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assuming proper installation and use (which are probably rarely achieved; and this doesn't count the smoke that billows out during ignition), an EPA "phase 2" wood stove emits only about 1/3 as much smoke as non-EPA stoves. That's still a LOT of smoke anywhere you don't have 20-acre or larger parcels
While possibly technically true (any specific reference?), this doesn't begin to give due credit to newer EPA stoves. When run well, neither old nor new stoves should emit any visible smoke after start up. Run optimally, an EPA approved stove may produce 1/3 the measurable particulates of an older stove run optimally, but it is easy to run a pre-EPA stove badly, producing huge quantities of smoke throughout the burn. On the other had, an EPA approved stove is much more difficult to burn badly and will produce very unsatisfactory heat when run that way. This leads many longtime wood burners, to cuss out these gubmint regulations when the damp wood they just cut and split last week won't burn like it did in their old smoke dragon. With properly seasoned wood (<20% moisture), there is no reason for a modern stove to emit any visible smoke 15 minutes after startup, and that stove should be capable of running 6-8 hours or for some models, 10-12 hours without reloading.
Additionally, modern stoves with dry wood (even pine!) produce almost no creosote, and use about 1/3 less wood for the same heat output.
TE
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jan 10, 2019 - 07:52pm PT
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Wayno...Get a snorkel stove...You'll love it...Nothing better than listening to the fire roaring inside the submerged firebox inches from your nose...Had one on the front porch about 50 yards from East Side Linny's place...Takes a while to heat the water but once you do it's well worth the wait....
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 10, 2019 - 08:39pm PT
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Additionally, modern stoves with dry wood (even pine!) produce almost no creosote, and use about 1/3 less wood for the same heat output.
SO true... with older stoves I'd have to scrape and chisel 1/4" or more of rock hard creosote off of our chimney every year. Sucked. With the new reburning Jotul there is zero creosote..... I mean none. I scrub with the brush a few times, inspect all the tiles and done.. 20 minutes tops.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jan 11, 2019 - 12:58am PT
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 11, 2019 - 09:29am PT
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I have a question for you snorkel stove owners. Can you put one in just any tub? I would think that immersion in water would dissipate the heat from the box enough that it wont burn or melt your tub. I can score a used fiberglass tub for nothing. I can even hook up a pump to circulate the water and make the jets work. Tell me more.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 11, 2019 - 10:04am PT
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wayno, I would imagine you could put a stove in a fiberglass tub if you used wood setoffs to keep it away from the fiberglass. Supporting the weight might be an issue, those tubs are not that beefy.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jan 11, 2019 - 11:45am PT
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well with circulation in play, there would be advantages (after abdicating the sweetest advantage, simplicity) to dropping the snorkel into a companion tank of various descriptions, basically turning it into a water heater. to answer the question you asked ... yes, if depth and crowding can be solved the water volume buffers and moderates peak temps but won't change the max temp tolerance of the fiberglass or any insulation. mounting is typically by way of (4) stainless bolts thru a cylindrical wall of redwood staves (self sealing via swelling), or legs with feet resting on a flat tub floor. if the tub in question wouldn't easily accommodate either scheme, suspension from a davit might be an option. when cooled, cleanout is by scoop from above, so good ergonomics will be rewarded. remember also, a barrier preventing any contact with flesh must be accounted for space wise, and blocking the existing jets might be a downer
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 11, 2019 - 12:02pm PT
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Thanks for the info guys. I am intrigued by the possibilities. I think the simplicity factor should be maintained. I could imagine a bunch of installation situations that could get tricky or expensive. KISS. I do think a separate tank for the snorkel and a pump would not be too hard to put together and still keep it simple. Somehow sitting next to a burning stove in a big tub of water makes me think of frog soup.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jan 11, 2019 - 06:27pm PT
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Wayno....I salvaged a worn out abandoned red wood tub from a condo project...took it home re-assembled it and got it to hold water with the redwood quickly swelling enough to hold water....I ran a skill saw around the circumference to lop off a foot from the height...didn't put much thought into the whole project and it turned out great....circulated the water by hand....nothing better than soaking in clean water and gazing at the stars...
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Jan 11, 2019 - 11:14pm PT
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Soaking is becoming my go-to remedy for my sore and tired joints. Too many projects exacts its toll. The bathtub inside is just ok.
So I just scored that old cookstove that I showed earlier in this thread. Maybe I can use some redneck tech and get that to heat my tub. My tub Is still in Cali, from a Daoist remodel. Free if I can get it up here. I have a bunch of copper pipe from another remodel. I will need a soak after I bash myself from building the thing.
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