wood burning stoves

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Messages 1 - 104 of total 104 in this topic
tinker b

climber
the commonwealth
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 11, 2014 - 02:41am PT
ahh, it is winter and the wood stove is one of my best friends. i am living in a trailer in england, and we have a stove...thank god. i always thought the stove works better with the door closed, but i have no information to back that up. the lovely gentleman who i cohabitate with thinks it works better to keep the door open.
so here i am asking the community to give me the advice i need to stay warm.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 03:02am PT
I was a stove guy and chimney sweep for several years. Make and model, please, or picture. A wood stove is engineered to work a certain way, and that way is with the door closed and using the air vents built into it for intake air. If it hasnt ben swept or if the vent pipe is damaged or installed poorly, it may not work without the door open, but that still isnt proper or safe. There would be a problem with the venting somewhere. Your buddy doesnt know how a stove works. If its not breathing out well, youll have to modify how it breathes in as a result. Fix any breathing out issues and youll be efficient and safe. Likely needs a sweep and service if it doesnt work well with the door closed, or doesnt have enought vent pipe height to build draw. That or there may be too many bends/angles/elbows in the pipe.

Post a pic.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:21am PT
tinker b dear,
check this out:

stove performance depends largely
on your chimney set up.

how far above your roof does the stove pipe climb?
how large of a diameter is your pipe?

with a proper pipe set up,
your stove should work equally well
with the door open or closed.

with a poor pipe set up,
smoke will exit the open door
and flood the trailer.

open doors are mostly for ambiance
(snuggling goes great with open door burns..)

get a screen if you do keep the door open
cause the wood will pop little hot zits and boogers
into your space which can be nasty ignition sources.

if you just crack the door open a wee amount,
the thing will get roaring because the fluid (oxygen)
movement across the fire increases.

so light it; open the door an inch or so until it well-establishes
a flame;

now open the door and put in your screen and make love
with the nearest warmth.

before bed close the door and stoke her up good with wood.

if you have a stove pipe valve, close that mostly-but-not-completely.

sweet dreams.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:23am PT
thanks for starting this thread, tinker.

i've been having a spout with my Vermont castings,
new-to-me vigilant wood stove.

these are great stoves but this one has been
puffing great bong hits into my living room
so regularly that the smoke wakes us up
in the night and i gotta go dick with it.

so i adore physics and enjoy learning
and understanding the processes upon which i rely.

i have a great stack of pipe above the stove,
due to a 12 in 12 roof pitch and a second story
thru which the pipe travels....

but this stove ain't drawing like it should...
so i cleaned the pipe last week;
still she has a smoking habit.

it only happens when i shut it down (intake and exhaust)
tightly for the night.

i burn dry and cured wood, mostly douglas fir...

so my analysis leads me to this conclusion:

the stove box is so tight that when i shut it down,
there is not sufficient fluid velocity (benoulii where oh where are you?)
to move the smoke column up the 45' pipe;

when it reaches a certain elevation (at the cooler pipe altitude)
the dense smoke (because i'm burning the wood so slow and cool)
becomes too heavy and it just f*#king falls back down the
pipe and burbs out around the door / lid rope.

i can hear the butterfly intake valve jump and rattle when
she exhales.

so my solution has been to close the damper before bed,
but keep the intake open more than I'd like
so it burns a little hotter and faster
and thus encourages the smoke out the pipe at a greater velocity.

am i a complete?
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:25am PT
hey there say, tinker b... i have twin buddies, with a wood stove, as well...

i will also ask them for info...
but, yes, can you post a photo of it... they would do better to see it, as well...


also, i sent you an email...
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:38am PT


steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:41am PT
All good comments here.

I've been burning wood for over 50 years, in various wood stoves, and all the above comments are valid.

I thought firewood in the U.K. was scarce?
Tork

climber
Yosemite
Dec 11, 2014 - 06:08am PT
Our Vermont Castings stove is also farter.
steve shea

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 07:05am PT
Pacific Energy is the company. Fusion is the model. The best stove I have had here in JH, land of way below zero. Top it off with an Ecofan or two and you are in business. Ecofan is made by Caframo. This is a great combination.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 07:12am PT
For your vermont castings, do they have catalytic converters? if so, theyre the most likely culprit. Otherwise the flap is also worth a check. Most folks dont know to maintain their catalysts, and they then melt down after clogging up with ash, and the noble metals in them deform, and are expensive to replace. technology has sort of left catalyst stoves behind.

I also dont think many of those brands would apply in the UK. Not sure what they use. Maybe some scandinavian stoves? Tulakivi?
John M

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 07:14am PT
An eco fan was one of the best additions I bought for my wood stove.
jstan

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 07:16am PT
When the column of air in the chimney is not yet at a temperature above that of the air outside there is not a high draw. Draw is caused by the differing weight in the air.

Wood burns when the temperature is high enough to cause destructive distillation of hydrocarbons in the wood/ Those hydrocarbons are the white vapor coming off the wood.

BUT

if the temperature is not at or above the flash point for those vapors you get a smoky fire that will tend to clog your chimney with recondensed deposits.

AND
if incoming air flow is not high enough to permit combustion you will hear a rapid series of explosions as the collected vapor ignites. Need to let in more air, burn down the wood a little, and then add new cold wood to lower the temperature so distillation is is not too fast for the amount of air you want to let in.

I got my air tight for $50. Then had to pay $900 for a double barrier chimney pipe that meets code and is less likely to burn the house down.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 07:40am PT
Modern engineering has taken care of most of that. Im here to flame you. Woodburning is viable, modern stoves are quite clean and efficient. They do need to be maintained properly and set up properly and many arent. People seem to think that if heat comes out, it works well. Not so much the case, you need to have heat without burning your house down and not belching tons of thick smoke and such.

Where I live, we get outages quite often, electricty isnt an option, and just becuse the pollution doesnt come from your home visibly, doesnt mean that electricity is clean. You just cant see its dirtiness;) Just like hybrid cars, theyre just as polluting as petrol cars, but not directly, its the manufacture thats dirty.

The folks who insist on not upgrading their old smoke belchers are dirtying up the air more, but are also losing out on heat and efficiency as well. If you put fire in ametal box, of course it will give off heat, thats easy. You need to do it efficiently, with modern reburn and air injection, you get burn from the wood, then another burn from the reignition of the gases put off by the original burn, thus more heat from the same amount of wood and less sh#t out the vent pipe.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:39am PT
Sure they are better than they use to be, but they still put off a lot of sh#t. Wood stoves still are nasty stuff. If everyone did it, we'd be sucking sh#t out of the air and all be dieing earlier. We just decided not to put in a sh#t, err, wood burner during a remodel, despite the prevalence of cheap wood in the area for that specific reason. It was a choice. Outages will easily be handled by a propane tank and a heater head attachment if and when we need it. I also recognize that what we have there now, electric forced air that came with the home, causes it's own troubles. The only true way to be pure is to not turn the heat on, and then the pipes are freezing - and that ain't gonna happen.


I'll admit there are a few times where they are the only choice for people. If that's all you have or truly can afford, God bless you and burn away. But most of the time folks basically are putting a wood stove in and saying "F** you and your breathing problems, and F* everyone else too, I think I'll save a nickel doing it this way and I don't give a sh#t about any environmental issues I'm personally creating by this choice so F* off".

ME ME ME. Seems to be a modern mantra.

Sorry I didn't answer your question Tinker b. Long ago, I lived for a winter burning pallets I'd score for free and cut up, you can find your own woodstoves characteristics best by paying attention to it.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:54am PT
Well okay mister exalted fancypants.

F*#k you then I guess? I didnt realize thats what I was saying when I lit up a fire.

But I will say go eat a penis, the size of your own choosing.

I highly doubt that you truly understand how a modern stove works.

Dont drive a car then. Dont plug anything into your wall outlets then. And definitely, dont talk then. If your so concerned about air quality.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:55am PT
LOL, when you don't have facts on your side a personal attack and adding a few detours on another subject or two will at least make you feel better.

BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:58am PT
"Not having facts on your side".....

must be an idiot. And a ranty little bugger at that.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:59am PT
Explain how a modern wood stove works without googling then, sir?
couchmaster

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:00am PT
Here, read up. As far as your suggestion of not using google, why would any rational person do that? If you can bring any facts to the table, instead of petty small penis offcolor attacks and bringing up non issues, lets see them.

An Engineer's Perspective on Heating with Wood and Other Solid Fuels
by Curt M. Freedman, M.S.E.M., P.E. (see resume)
In a blind attempt to stay warm for less money, many people are mistakenly choosing to burn solid fuels such as wood, wood pellets or coal this winter. The alleged popularity and benefit of heating with wood or other solid fuels is simply not justified by the expense, detrimental health impacts of "second hand" wood smoke, fire hazards, and poor heating performance of wood stoves. Newspapers and magazines as well as movies and television that promote the use of wood stoves and fireplaces as being romantic and natural do not responsibly present the detrimental health and safety ramifications of heating with solid fuels nor do they discuss more cost-effective alternatives that would promote improved energy conservation, health and safety.

Interest in energy conservation has increased recently due to the following developments:

a) Increase in natural gas prices caused by increased demand; the Wall Street Journal has reported that the increase in demand can be directly linked to the increased utilization of natural gas for electric power generation.

b) Increase in demand for oil and higher prices caused by the strong global economy;

c) Unrest in the mid-east;

d) Concern for price volatility caused by low domestic oil supplies;

As a licensed professional engineer in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts specializing in energy conservation and a technical advisor for "Burning Issues", (Burning Issues is an advocacy group that promotes cleaner burning fuels) [www.burningissues.org], I have two major concerns over the use of wood for heating (I am not a representative or spokesman for the oil, natural gas or propane industries nor do I have any financial interests in the above industries):

A) There is inadequate economic benefit to burn wood; a modern high efficiency oil, propane or natural gas appliance will out perform a wood or pellet stove.

The availability of split seasoned wood is decreasing and the cost is increasing; in fact, most of the firewood dealers that were contacted in the Springfield Yellow pages were completely out of wood. The energy cost value of wood products is not cheap. Wood at $140/cord is equivalent to oil at $1.53/gallon (I have locked in with my dealer @$.91/gallon) and natural gas $1.12/Therm (I obtain natural gas @ $.65/therm). Wood pellets @ $2.78 per 40 pound bag is comparable to oil @ $1.73/gallon and natural gas @ $1.27/Therm. When one adds the $1,500 to $4,500 initial equipment cost and the ongoing value of a persons time to clean the stoves and load the fuel, an investment in a solid fueled wood or pellet stove may be financially unsound.

B) There can be significant health impacts; a wood stove is 500-1,000 times dirtier than a modern oil burner.

Wood smoke emissions contain fine particulate pollution and can have similar detrimental health effects as tobacco smoke. Experts have documented that the chemical components in wood smoke cause irritation to the respiratory system causing bronchitis, asthma, and sinus infections weakening the immune system resulting in a lower resistance to infectious diseases. I feel that it is time for more responsible energy policies to direct citizens in a more environmentally and economically smarter route on the highway to the 21st Century. I feel that the public should know that returning home in a gas guzzling SUV to their glass enclosed family room heated with a wood stove and a redwood Jacuzzi heated with wood from an 80 year old red oak tree may not be environmentally friendly. I feel that we need to utilize equipment that has comparable emission levels and protects clean air quality standards. I feel we need to more aggressively promote energy & electrical conservation to reduce our emissions from, and consumption of fossil fuels. I do not feel burning formerly healthy hardwood trees is the proper utilization of our forests.

My experience with fine particulate air pollution began seven years ago when my neighbor installed an EPA approved wood stove (with a catalytic converter) that resulted in my normally healthy lungs bleeding from bronchitis and my son being hospitalized. I resolved the problem with my neighbor by investing in a natural gas hydronic heating system for their family room so they could choose to utilize a heating system that releases 1/500th the PM1O and PM2.5 pollution of a wood stove. After this experience, I became an advocate in my community identifying problems with the use of solid fuels and promoted Best Available Technologies or "BATs" utilizing conventional heating equipment.

Within the last few years, after I presented documentation to the Longmeadow Board of Health, the Longmeadow Bertucci's Wood burning Pizza Restaurant converted its wood burning oven to natural gas. The emissions from the wood oven became a nuisance after the wood smoke continued to detrimentally impact the occupants of a nearby commercial office building, including the chairman of the Longmeadow Board of Health, Dr. Robert Rappaport.

There are other very good reasons to utilize conventional fuels:

"Wood smoke is significantly associated with respiratory function decrements in young children with asthma." In Seattle area, "60%-90% of particles in residential neighborhoods ... are from wood burning year round."

-EPA report: "A Summary of The Emissions Characterization and Non-Cancer Respiratory Effects of Wood Smoke," 12/1993.


"Individuals can also help reduce particulate pollution through simple steps such as using energy efficient light bulbs and appliances, maintaining cars properly, insulating homes, and curtailing use of wood stoves for home heating in favor of cleaner fuels."

-NRDC report: "Danger in the air," 1996.

Summary and recommendations:

1) Everyone must know the detrimental effects of secondhand wood smoke; solid fuel appliances should have warning labels as do cigarettes; we all have a right to know of substances that are unhealthful; people will make better fuel use choices if better informed.

2) We should all aggressively implement energy and electrical conservation to reduce fossil fuel emissions in our homes and in our vehicles. Example: additional zones and/or nighttime set-backs will save energy in our homes and reduced highway speeds would improve mileage on our vehicles.

3) It is far better to convert from electric heating to conventional fuels instead of converting from electric to wood;

4) Re-establish the right of every citizen in this country to breath clean air and not be detrimentally impacted by fine particulate pollution; if we were putting Creosote in our water supply there would be a public outcry;

5) Inform the public that during periods of fog or nighttime inversions atmospheric conditions may not allow sufficient atmospheric ventilation to justify using a wood stove or fireplace 24 hours a day. A conventional heating system must also be installed so that cleaner conventional fuels can be utilized when atmospheric conditions do not allow sufficient atmospheric ventilation or when the solid fuel appliance becomes a nuisance to abutters

Substantial scientific evidence has shown that wood smoke can cause and/or contribute to: cardiopulmonary disease, asthma, bronchitis, emphysema and other problems such as eye irritation, sinus infections, and acid reflux.

Fine Particulate Air Pollution Is Not a Small Problem!
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:02am PT
No thanks. That is not very much news to me. I am largely aware. How about how a modern wood stove works?
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:03am PT
Never made a small penis insult. I just asked that you ate one of your own size choice.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:03am PT
"How about how a modern wood stove works? "

You put wood in it, light it on fire. Open the vents to your choosing, turn a fan on if you have one, and close the door.

Do I get a post card?
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:07am PT
there about us is fixed amount of matter,
just idling away awaiting its turn at phase change.
a large portion of the wood fuel will change phase
via environmental burn if we do not harness it
in our conditioned dwellings.

so what the f*#k do we gain by shite canning our wood stoves
and plugging in a electric unit that draws on dammed rivers?

or perhaps we should use a propane heater that
requires petroleum extraction, processing and delivery?

me me me f*#k me.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:08am PT
Theres a little more to it than that, but yes. Theres a secondary burn tube system that pulls air into those tubes that cross the ceiling of the firebox, then out their holes and the oxygen ignites at temperature, making a second burn of the gases emitted when the wood initially burns. Same principle as air injection smog equipment on 70's and 80's cars, except the stove doesnt need an air pump. The firebox is insulated with fire bricks and ceramic blanket, all to keep box temps higher and thus cleaner, while keeping more heat in the box for longer. The ceramic glass also projects heat pretty directly out the front as well. Basically making the most heat out of the least wood. Its then up to the user to have things properly installed and maintained, and to use it properly, service it properly, and burn good wood.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:41am PT
I used to hate it in Alaska when there was no wind and it was really cold -
you couldn't go outside for the damn air pollution and we only had like 6
neighbors within a half mile! The smoke would cool so quickly it would fall
back down to the surface.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:49am PT
Yup, cold air sinks that stuff in. I would bet folks were running 'dirty' systems and maybe even burning refuse. My work is surrounded by a small neighborhood where the cold just sinks in and condenses the overnight smoke and it takes until mid morning to rise and dissipate, we smell it in the hospital from about 4am till about 8am. Its older more modest housing and Im sure it would be less if people werent still running old dilapidated stuff. Ive been in many houses in town and have seen such a wide variety of setups its ridiculous. There are still a bunch of dirty old systems out there that people cant afford to replace or be without.
mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 11:32am PT
Buddhastalin is wrong. Even modern residential wood stoves emit WAY more harmful particulates that any other heating source, and that is under perfect advertising-test circumstances which do not remotely correspond to actual real-world operating conditions. When they're heating up (which takes a while), they're just as dirty as a 19th century stove. And Bs certainly knows that most of the wood burned around here is NOT good wood for the purpose, but instead pine, often not very dry. In the last couple of years, I've read hundreds of pages of the actual science papers and huge agency reports with a zillion references, and those are the undeniable facts. Wood burning is unequivocally very detrimental to the health of everyone in the area. That fact is not altered by the fact that other human actions produce pollution too (not nearly as much).

That said, wood burning is a nearly carbon-neutral way to heat, it's a consideration. But the health effects are adverse and significant.
WBraun

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 11:40am PT
What can be done!!!

You earthlings can never get your sh!t together.

Everything you do is harmful to everything else.

This proves you're on the wrong planet ......
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
^^^^^^ TOTALLYY! Things will be sooo much better on Mars! I can't wait!
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
out in front
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
SteveA- have no fear about having nothing to burn in England, there's plenty and stuff grows dang fast

You cant just wild harvest though, a lot of forest is state managed and you'll need a license
rincon

Trad climber
Coarsegold
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
Around here people burn things. Woodstoves are nothing compared to all the debris fires. Yesterday was leaf burning day for my neighbor...dude had like 4 or 5 piles going at once. I went down to town and on the way home, could see the plume of smoke rising from a mile away. I blew it by leaving the garage door open and letting all the smoke in, now it stinks like burnt leaves.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
Get a modern stove.

Jotul Firelight....

Just awesome.

The modern re-burning stoves are catalytic free. Once they heat up there's almost no smoke. We burn about 5-7 cords of hardwood a year and with the modern stove there is no creosote for me to brush at the end of the year, just a light carbon coating that comes out in 4-5 passes of the brush.

With the old Vermont Castings (circa '85) stove, that thing belched out smoke and creosote all day long. I'd have to scrape out about 1/4" of carmelized creosote at least 2-3 times during the season. Filthy thing.

The key is DRY hardwood and keeping the operating temps over 400 measured on the top.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 11, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
I bought a used Artic 25 years ago, burn all sorts of nasty wood in it, never have any build up in it. Smokes when I first light it, but once it is blazing away there is no smoke or smell outside. I have about 14 feet of straight up stove pipe and that stove draws a hell of a draft, and burns hot. The stove pipe rusts out before I have to clean it. I have only bought wood one year.
covelocos

Trad climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2279962&tn=0
Floorabove

climber
The Gunks y'all
Dec 11, 2014 - 02:55pm PT

Soapstone!!!

Hold the heat for a looooonnng time.

And EPA compliant for those that care
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:14pm PT
I've looked at soapstone stoves for my one room cabin. It seems like it might keep the temperature reasonably warm all night if hot when one went to bed?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 11, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
Pretty close to what mine was like.

You can look, but you better not touch.

Sure heated up the room fast. At bedtime, we'd jam it full with as much wood as we could, close everything up tight and it would smoulder pretty much all night.

BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 06:30pm PT
Wow what an old dinosaur! Fire-view? They definitely dont make em like that anymore!

For mongrel, perhaps I didnt communicate myself well, I never have thought that woodburning units were cleaner than gas and such. I assume thats what Im wrong about? I do however dont always like electricity as a source of power since its rarely 'clean' either, and as a truckeeite you know how often we can lose power, sometimes rapid fire like today in TD. I certainly cant give up my stove at this point in time, im just glad that I already have a modern type stove thats about as clean as woods gonna be and that I can burn good wood and so on. People dont acknowledge the impact of where things like electricity comes from and what it takes to manufacture their hybrid car, etc the impact isnt visible on the everyday, it makes that guilt less visible.

That said, sometimes that smoke settles in and when the conditions are right and theres lots of people burning, like around xmas, its like the summer when its was choked with widfire smoke. Ive aborted a daily run after a half mile because it felt like bejing out there.

Somewhere along the way in this thread, I hope the OP got his stove setup fixed.....
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Dec 11, 2014 - 07:54pm PT

http://us.rais.com/stove/rais-gabo-wood.aspx

Wood-burning stoves manufactured in Denmark must not produce any more carbon dioxide than if the wood were left to rot.
mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
Sounds like we're exactly on the same page then, Buddha. If you're going to burn wood, definitely have the best device, use it well, and so on.

Just for quantitative completeness of the thread, though, even "EPA certified" whoop de doo stoves emit an enormous amount of PM2.5, the worst stuff. And the chemical composition of wood stove PM2.5 (vs. dust PM2.5) is particularly harmful. If you look at the most current EPA certified list (Nov 2014), you see that efficiencies (I guess heating efficiency) are mostly in the range of 63-72 percent, and emissions are in the range of about 1.5 to 6 GRAMS per hour, probably an average for all certified stoves of about 3 or higher. A whole gram of wood smoke particles is a LOT of particles, and that's every hour, for maybe 6-8 months in Truckee for example, and doesn't even count the giant slug of emissions when you light it or when it's not burning perfectly. That's like 35 pounds of wood smoke particles every year, from the best stoves operating perfectly. No wonder we get smoked out when there's an inversion!

I do like the aesthetics of a nice wood fire, it is beautiful and mystical and very primal. But we're long past time to allow wood burning facilities in any new residential construction, period, except on parcels of a minimum or 20 or 100 acres, where it doesn't affect anyone else so much. If you gotta have flame, go gas. A go play outdoors! You don't need to heat the house much when you're out getting some.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:07pm PT
And thats just the modern ones, doesnt even account for all the old fishers and stuff still out there.

It is what it is, some of us are stuck with it, for now at least. Even though my house has NG already, getting it plumbed over adds so much to the $ of going with a gas stove, it makes it so much more of a big deal. It opens a big old can of worms too. If I was going to spend dough on going gas, Id be relocating the bugger. It doesnt do much good stuffed into the corner like it is now. I also have forced air, but when the power goes out, it useless of course. Not as crewed as some buddies on donner lake who have to deal with a pellet stove.

We just have to be mindful when we burn, not be cheap. It doesnt help in the long run anyway, junk wood gives junk heat. Too many people have to do it.
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
door closed
mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:34pm PT
Yes, a lot of people just don't have a realistic choice, and I have no complaint with them. It's the fancy ass spec houses that just have to have that wood fireplace for ornament that I'm peeved about. We are fortunate to have a choice, and we took it, yanking this piece of crap out for the $300 reward:



DanaB

climber
CT
Dec 12, 2014 - 12:47am PT
In areas of the world where burning biomass is the only way to cook and heat, that is one of the primary causes of COPD.
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
out in front
Dec 13, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
Nice post Ricky, woodstoves just look so homely
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
Dec 13, 2014 - 05:14pm PT
Also have the Jotul oslo. One of the best woodstoves I have
used. And I have dealt with more than a few.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 16, 2014 - 10:49am PT
Mongrel noted:
"Yes, a lot of people just don't have a realistic choice, and I have no complaint with them. It's the fancy ass spec houses that just have to have that wood fireplace for ornament that I'm peeved about."

Agreed, but there are people who still put them in as a retrofit just because they want too. Those folks neither need the wood, nor care a sh#t about their neighbors breathing their sh#t. In our evaluation, I was surprised to see how costly the current crop of stoves are, they aren't for poor people anymore that's for sure.





Well spoken Mongrel:
"Just for quantitative completeness of the thread, though, even "EPA certified" whoop de doo stoves emit an enormous amount of PM2.5, the worst stuff. And the chemical composition of wood stove PM2.5 (vs. dust PM2.5) is particularly harmful. If you look at the most current EPA certified list (Nov 2014), you see that efficiencies (I guess heating efficiency) are mostly in the range of 63-72 percent, and emissions are in the range of about 1.5 to 6 GRAMS per hour, probably an average for all certified stoves of about 3 or higher. A whole gram of wood smoke particles is a LOT of particles, and that's every hour, for maybe 6-8 months in Truckee for example, and doesn't even count the giant slug of emissions when you light it or when it's not burning perfectly. That's like 35 pounds of wood smoke particles every year, from the best stoves operating perfectly. No wonder we get smoked out when there's an inversion!

I do like the aesthetics of a nice wood fire, it is beautiful and mystical and very primal. But we're long past time to allow wood burning facilities in any new residential construction, period, except on parcels of a minimum or 20 or 100 acres, where it doesn't affect anyone else so much. If you gotta have flame, go gas. A go play outdoors! You don't need to heat the house much when you're out getting some. "
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Dec 16, 2014 - 11:04am PT

What a great thread. I feel at home here.

Though Norwegian ain't doin it right...
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Dec 16, 2014 - 11:09am PT
Trailer houses are built to tight for wood stoves to work properly. You'll need an extra outdoor air supply for the stove in order for it to draw sufficiently.
tinker b

climber
the commonwealth
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2014 - 05:01am PT
well the lad started to close the door on the stove without me needing to back up my opinion with scientific evidence the night i wrote the original post.

. i tried to include pictures, but i can't for some reason.

the idea of the trailer being airtight is laughable, although i have plugged up most of the drafts at this point, it is a shitty little trailer (aka static caravan)

the trailer is on twenty acres, and our closest neighbors are horses. i think it rains so much the particulate matter falls out of the sky pretty quick. the neighbors have not been complaining about the smoke.

we are running off of solar

there is plenty of wood in england. the lad is a tree surgeon and brings wood home from work. i have done a bit of gathering of dead stuff with a wheel barrow and a bow saw.

thanks for the advice and care. too bad people have to call each other names, but i am glad to see all the cool woodburners out there. the lad ordered the stove without me. looking at what is out there i wish i had had more say.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Dec 17, 2014 - 08:22am PT
No, they're not airtight, never said so. If your opening the door helps, well then, it's not getting enough air when the door is shut. The smaller area of a trailer coupled with a few small leaks doesn't make for a good draft to prevent it from 'puffing' when opening the door on the wood burner.

Ask some people that sell wood stoves.


From a quick google on stoves in trailers;
Before a woodstove may be installed in a mobile home, .......... Third, a hard ducting system for bringing outside combustion air directly to the stove's air inlet is required.

Also here, http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Wood_stove_in_a_mobile_home/
LearningTrad

Trad climber
Dec 17, 2014 - 08:41am PT
these modern stoves look awesome and expensive. Can a non-trustafari afford one?
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Mar 5, 2015 - 04:45am PT
my old vermont castings vigilante
had this aweful habit of burping smoke
into the house at night,
when i had her exhaust shut down tight.

i tried various fixes like sweeping the stack
and changing wood species for night burns.

to no avail.

most recently i replaced the rope
on the top-load lid with new
3/8" line.

but the lid didn't quite seat down
so i put a huge asse granite block on
top of the lid.

now she don't smoke with
the added bonus of
an attractive thermal mass.

so in hindsight,
i had the exhaust flue closed down,
but she was drawing full air around
the leaky lid.

i don't know.
i always connect these situations
metaphorically to my own phase change (death-to-life-to-death.)

and it's not a surprise that
both the stove and i
were gasping with forced intake
and a limited means to expel.
jstan

climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 06:18am PT
For my unheated house I got a great little AirTight for $50. The triple steel chimney meeting code cost $900.

CO2 is a conserved quantity. It is all a matter of process rate. CO2 can be stored for a long time in limestone or it can be released quickly by termites or a fire. Wood fires, a natural process, releases it quickly and is needed to return minerals for use by new growth. I also get firewood by clearing away landscape cuttings that have been dumped.

It helps mightily when your nearest neighbor is more than an eighth of a mile away.
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Mar 5, 2015 - 06:35am PT
door closed

Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
Mar 5, 2015 - 07:08am PT
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 5, 2015 - 09:25am PT
Perhaps 30% of my home's heating comes from an EPA stove, supplied with wood from my own property. A good wood stove isn't cheap, but neither is an efficient furnace, and I wouldn't be without either.

I'm not going to argue the environmental pros and cons of woodstoves, but I must add that EPA-test conditions are not intended to be representative of typical or optimal operation, they are intended as a reproducible test condition for relative comparison between stoves. They reflect worst-case operation with optimum firewood, unfortunately many people don't have the space or patience to leave slow-drying woods like hickory or oak to season for the 3+ years needed to achieve optimum burn.

If you wood burners somehow haven't discovered it yet, http://www.hearth.com is a great resource on wood stoves and everything remotely associated with them, from burning practices, to the gear, to the political and environmental issues.

TE
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 5, 2015 - 09:46am PT
Ran through almost 5 cords this year so far although it's almost done....

As mentioned above, properly seasoned/DRY wood is essential. Proper stacking and placement / covering / sun-exposure plays a critical role to dry that stuff out. Anyone trying to burn year-old red oak can attest to at least 1/2 the calories going to making creosote and steam....

stunewberry

Trad climber
Spokane, WA
Mar 5, 2015 - 11:04am PT
Here is the cat checking out the thermal properties of our Quadrafire 7100 insert back at Christmas time. We go through 4 to 5 cords of tam (western larch), norway maple, and birch in a season.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Mar 5, 2015 - 01:52pm PT
Changing the subject to natural gas fireplace heaters...

Are there some that are efficient (with room air blower & heat exchanger?)
Do you close the damper when not using it to keep warm room air from going up the flue?

Or are there gas wall heaters that make the flame visible, so it's sortof nice to look at like a fireplace?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 5, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
Splater, check out Fire Magic/Realfyre

http://www.realfyre.com/gas-fireplace-products/vent-free-collection/
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 24, 2018 - 10:32am PT
woodstove bump

We bought this fifty year old fixer a couple years ago and now I actually live in it. I love it. There is evidence that at one time there was a forced-air furnace and some baseboard heaters. When we bought the house it had a Blaze King catalytic stove. A true beast. I replaced the catalytic converter and the door gsket and some fire bricks. This thing can kick out some heat and I can get burn times well over 24 hours. It is downstairs and I don't spend much time down there but it keeps things toasty and the heat eventually makes it up. I then scored a barely used Lopi Revere insert for the upstairs. It is an EPA stove and it sticks out of the firebox enough to have a 10" x 2' cooking surface. Really nice stove that heats well. The house is tight and well insulated so it gets toasty.

Wood is my only heat source now except for a couple of wall heaters and an Edenpure space heater, but I rarely use them. Getting and storing and chopping wood is real work and it seems fun now but I'm sure that will get old as I will too. Eventually I'll get another heat source when I can afford it but for now this will have to do. Wood is cheap or free here, so that is a bonus but smoke is a concern. I will try to get some pics later.

Keep warm!
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Nov 24, 2018 - 10:57am PT
Pellet stoves really are a much better if you care about what you & your neighbors are breathing.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 24, 2018 - 11:21am PT
I have a pellet stove that I'm going to put in the shop. As for my neighbors, they all burn wood and my stoves burn much cleaner. The density here is negligible so no-one really gets smoked out. At this time of the year everyone is bundled up inside by their woodstoves. In a perfect world, I wouldn't need to burn but I do like to be warm and I can't yet afford the latest environmentally correct apparatus.

I had to remove more than a few trees from my property for fire safety and I now have a bunch of free firewood. The bigger trees went to the mill so I also have a bunch of lumber for home projects and furniture. 16'x26"x3" live-edge slabs for counters and tables and lot of it is blue from beetle kill.
Bargainhunter

climber
Nov 24, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
Did someone mention woodstoves? I like them so much I take mine climbing with me. This one (Solo Stove Lite) weighs 9oz and fuel is free everywhere, at least anywhere there are trees or bushes.

PS: What happened to Weege?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 24, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
When I was a teenager my folks bought a dilapidated old Amish farmhouse about 80 miles south of Buffalo. In the winter we'd stay down there and go ski touring in the Allegheny mountains. This was the heat source. Best used with the door closed. Mos def not EPA compliant.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 24, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
Up in Alaska even though I only had like 4 neighbors within a half mile on cold days the smoke would lie on the ground and make me pine for LA.

So how ridiculous is it that we all have to buy Teslas so the country bumpkins can go on polluting?

Have a nice winter, Wayno! 😉
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Nov 24, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
My parents in Washington have gone thru various stoves over 40 years.
Long ago it was a wood insert that required all the work of splitting and loading wood. Then a better one.
Those ended because of the creosote and 2 chimney fires, one enough to crack the masonry. Most wood in Washington is softwood, mainly fir.
Next went through 2 pellet stoves, with heat exchangers. First was a very early one, second was an improved dual auger version. Both of them burned well, eventually had the augers fail.
Now they can't load pellets anymore and have a propane fireplace insert. Had to add a propane tank outside also.
All of these are in addition to an electric furnace.

Some of the neighbors still burn logs and the smoke sometimes just sits around, when there is little wind. On the very worst days Puget Sound has burn bans, but these bans are extremely rare since it takes a lot of pollution to activate. Stage 1 bans use of non certified stoves. In all of Puget Sound it is illegal to buy, sell, exchange or give away uncertified stoves. Tacoma/Pierce county is the first to completely ban all non-certified stoves, as of Oct 2015. All uncertified stoves may not be used, regardless of when you bought it.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 24, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
I had one of those Ashleys in my tipi when i spent a winter in the snow.......when i got home at night the puppies would be lying underneath the stove to keep warm...
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Nov 25, 2018 - 08:53am PT
I updated my profile. I am not in Seattle. I wouldn't need or want a stove there. Where I'm at now is still in the Pleistocene so wood heat is kosher. Sure it is cozy but it is a pain to deal with the wood. I burn three kinds of wood. Ponderosa pine was from my property and free. It burns hot and fast when dry and is great for starting up and heating the fire box. I also buy Fir and mostly Larch. They burn better being denser. Fir not so much but Tamarack as it is called here is dense and practically a hardwood. The only deciduous conifer, check it out, they lose their needles every fall. Next year I will try and get my own wood. I get a permit from the Forest Service and I'm good for up to ten cords. I have a truck, a chainsaw, a winch and a peavey. I plan to cut it into logs onsite and then buck it at home and rent a splitter. Early or late because they close the forest to chainsaws during fire season.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 25, 2018 - 09:09am PT
Where I'm at now is still in the Pleistocene

C’mon, Wayno, this lovely clock doesn’t date from the Pleistocene!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Nov 25, 2018 - 09:37am PT
That's downright modern, Reilly. Nothin' like that in Republic. Maybe Omak, probably not Tonasket and surely not here.

Speaking of woodstoves, we scored an antique wood-burning cook range last week from some friends in Ontario, Oregon. It's from the Never-Break Range Co. in St Louis. Not as ornate as some but there is a lot of nickel plating and it is complete and probably still functions. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it but it was free and it is a beauty.


I got it out of the pickup without any help or lifting. Work smart.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 25, 2018 - 09:42am PT
It is Tonasket, braj! Why else would I have posted it? 🤨

Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Nov 25, 2018 - 10:08am PT
Tonasket it is. We love Chesaw. Almost bought a place there. Do you know how they got the name? About as remote as it gets around here. Did you check out Molson?


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 25, 2018 - 10:27am PT
Cause Chesaw rhymes with Hee-Haw? 🤡

It is sweet! And low fire danger!

For sale!
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Nov 25, 2018 - 11:03am PT

when the cold gray days of winter roll in there’s nothing quite as comforting as the radiating warmth and snap and crackle of a wood stove
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Nov 25, 2018 - 11:48am PT
I've heated our house for almost 20 years now primarily with wood. Although old stoves are certainly nostalgic they absolutely suck in terms of efficiency that correlates directly to how much wood you'll labor over.

I've got the biggest jotul freestander and it consumes 25-30% less wood thab an ancient vermont castings that was here prior.

Pollution aside, a new stove will likely save your back!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Nov 25, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
Yep, EPA stoves are the ticket and you don't have to spend a bunch. I found my Lopi on craigslist for 200 bucks. All it needed was a new door gasket, a couple of new firebricks and a coat of new paint.

Proper installation is the key. I bought my SS liner kit in Canada for cheap and did it myself. I did have some experience as an installer. It is up to code. I had to do some cutting of the old Heatilator metal firebox in the fireplace and remove the old damper. Sawsall was the ticket. I made my own surround out of aluminum. The hardest part was getting the stove from Seattle to here and then up some stairs but with a dolly not too bad. A little vinegar and that brass door really shines.

The previous owners had some scary homemade insert that was burned out and the install was atrociously dangerous. They hadn't swept the chimney in a while and I'm surprised they didn't have a fire. I'm not surprised that they burned up to ten chords. I should get by with three or four, but if I don't I always have a bunch of pine.
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:11am PT
Meanwhile in Russia....
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:26am PT
After a high speed wreck on the highway, I bet that'll have the cops scratching their heads.
WBraun

climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:34am PT

This is great.

It will never work in Pussy sterile America with it's 10 billion st00pid rules on everything .....
Chaz

Trad climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:45am PT
... in Soviet Russia, wood burns you. What a country!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 10, 2019 - 09:27am PT
Ever heard of a snorkel stove? Wood fired hot tub. Redneck spa. I want one.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 10, 2019 - 10:13am PT
^^^

Beauty. Do you use it, Walleye? Did you have to restore it?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 10, 2019 - 10:27am PT
A relative that works for a heavy Equipment/mining supply outfit -Sent us this picture back when we went through 7 cords + oil & electric heat,
gave up & moved to suburbia
Wood will heat you 4-5 times before you light a match...

Repurpose, Re-use, Re-cycle
A simple quick search

http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=95392.0

&
https://firewoodhoardersclub.com/forums/threads/track-hoe-bucket-stove.21912/



Yup , after solid everyday for a month and the residual radiant heat built up could be to haut.
.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 10, 2019 - 11:00am PT
Hoe man I love that bucket setup....

Functional too.. imagine the iron mass there once heated.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:10pm PT
yes indeed on the snorkle stove.
have no worries about the functionality of the firebox as long as it has adequate flue height and never ever fails to remain submerged.

deployed in a basic tub, an awesome thermocline develops, meaning toes freeze while a scald line across the shoulders defines the water level. a bucket for bailing in place or a paddle is primitive solution #1 for off grid use though the condition is quick to return. a thermometer reading is one thing in a freshly stirred bath, well before the end of the session a wide range of temps will be recorded based on depth ... so circulation is an issue that wants to be addressed.

the initial h2o temp determines the proper fuel load as will regulation of the burn rate in order to achieve a target temp at a future time. it's an art to time the doffing of clothes just as the (stirred) h2o temp reaches optimum given the lag time it represents vs. the stove output curve which takes on it's own trajectory absent some pretty attentive intervention.

it's disappointing to stand wet and shivering alongside the tub, evicted because it's either to hot or too cold while it's proceeding to get either hotter or colder depending. meanwhile it's definitely separating hot from cold in the vertical sense while you wait.

perfection is the intersection of two independent functions as they chart themselves over your intended bath schedule. it's a very satisfying skill to master
TLP

climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:43pm PT
Classic wood stoves are certainly cool looking historic relics, but they belong in museums and not in use. A few years back I looked into the subject and it turns out that, assuming proper installation and use (which are probably rarely achieved; and this doesn't count the smoke that billows out during ignition), an EPA "phase 2" wood stove emits only about 1/3 as much smoke as non-EPA stoves. That's still a LOT of smoke anywhere you don't have 20-acre or larger parcels. And the continually expanding scientific record is clear that the health effects are a lot worse than formerly thought, especially on children, older folks, and anyone with otherwise compromised health.

In addition to the fire hazard from chimney fires or incorrect installation, there's another huge fire hazard from the stored firewood itself, namely, ignition by flying embers from wildfires that have gotten into communities and become urban fires. Anecdotal and other evidence from several recent (last 10 years or so) fires in California and Colorado shows that a lot of houses that burned were lost because there was firewood or lumber stored in the yard, which ignited into a raging blaze that couldn't be controlled even by fire crews who were right there and well equipped. Not an issue everywhere, but where it is, you definitely want the firewood stash enclosed in a manner that totally precludes access of embers.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:50pm PT
Thanks hooblie, your experience with the snorkel answers a lot of questions I had about operating the thing. Even without the water factor a woodstove does require some experience to operate properly. It is more difficult than just building a roaring campfire. I have seen a couple setups using different tubs but never seen one actually being used. One of the more interesting was a galvanized tub ranchers use to water their stock. At first glance I thought it was a way to keep the water from freezing. Overkill? I figured it out when I heard about the snorkel stoves. Great idea.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:57pm PT
Yes TLP, I agree with everything you say. Why are the still used so much? Economics. Heating costs and infrastructure issues in depressed rural areas keep these dinosaurs going. Look at China. Not just heating but cooking food. I wish there was an easy solution. Forget about how cozy they are.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jan 10, 2019 - 07:20pm PT
assuming proper installation and use (which are probably rarely achieved; and this doesn't count the smoke that billows out during ignition), an EPA "phase 2" wood stove emits only about 1/3 as much smoke as non-EPA stoves. That's still a LOT of smoke anywhere you don't have 20-acre or larger parcels

While possibly technically true (any specific reference?), this doesn't begin to give due credit to newer EPA stoves. When run well, neither old nor new stoves should emit any visible smoke after start up. Run optimally, an EPA approved stove may produce 1/3 the measurable particulates of an older stove run optimally, but it is easy to run a pre-EPA stove badly, producing huge quantities of smoke throughout the burn. On the other had, an EPA approved stove is much more difficult to burn badly and will produce very unsatisfactory heat when run that way. This leads many longtime wood burners, to cuss out these gubmint regulations when the damp wood they just cut and split last week won't burn like it did in their old smoke dragon. With properly seasoned wood (<20% moisture), there is no reason for a modern stove to emit any visible smoke 15 minutes after startup, and that stove should be capable of running 6-8 hours or for some models, 10-12 hours without reloading.

Additionally, modern stoves with dry wood (even pine!) produce almost no creosote, and use about 1/3 less wood for the same heat output.

TE
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 10, 2019 - 07:52pm PT
Wayno...Get a snorkel stove...You'll love it...Nothing better than listening to the fire roaring inside the submerged firebox inches from your nose...Had one on the front porch about 50 yards from East Side Linny's place...Takes a while to heat the water but once you do it's well worth the wait....
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:39pm PT
Additionally, modern stoves with dry wood (even pine!) produce almost no creosote, and use about 1/3 less wood for the same heat output.

SO true... with older stoves I'd have to scrape and chisel 1/4" or more of rock hard creosote off of our chimney every year. Sucked. With the new reburning Jotul there is zero creosote..... I mean none. I scrub with the brush a few times, inspect all the tiles and done.. 20 minutes tops.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jan 11, 2019 - 12:58am PT
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 11, 2019 - 09:29am PT
I have a question for you snorkel stove owners. Can you put one in just any tub? I would think that immersion in water would dissipate the heat from the box enough that it wont burn or melt your tub. I can score a used fiberglass tub for nothing. I can even hook up a pump to circulate the water and make the jets work. Tell me more.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 11, 2019 - 10:04am PT
wayno, I would imagine you could put a stove in a fiberglass tub if you used wood setoffs to keep it away from the fiberglass. Supporting the weight might be an issue, those tubs are not that beefy.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jan 11, 2019 - 11:45am PT
well with circulation in play, there would be advantages (after abdicating the sweetest advantage, simplicity) to dropping the snorkel into a companion tank of various descriptions, basically turning it into a water heater. to answer the question you asked ... yes, if depth and crowding can be solved the water volume buffers and moderates peak temps but won't change the max temp tolerance of the fiberglass or any insulation. mounting is typically by way of (4) stainless bolts thru a cylindrical wall of redwood staves (self sealing via swelling), or legs with feet resting on a flat tub floor. if the tub in question wouldn't easily accommodate either scheme, suspension from a davit might be an option. when cooled, cleanout is by scoop from above, so good ergonomics will be rewarded. remember also, a barrier preventing any contact with flesh must be accounted for space wise, and blocking the existing jets might be a downer
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 11, 2019 - 12:02pm PT
Thanks for the info guys. I am intrigued by the possibilities. I think the simplicity factor should be maintained. I could imagine a bunch of installation situations that could get tricky or expensive. KISS. I do think a separate tank for the snorkel and a pump would not be too hard to put together and still keep it simple. Somehow sitting next to a burning stove in a big tub of water makes me think of frog soup.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 11, 2019 - 06:27pm PT
Wayno....I salvaged a worn out abandoned red wood tub from a condo project...took it home re-assembled it and got it to hold water with the redwood quickly swelling enough to hold water....I ran a skill saw around the circumference to lop off a foot from the height...didn't put much thought into the whole project and it turned out great....circulated the water by hand....nothing better than soaking in clean water and gazing at the stars...
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
Jan 11, 2019 - 11:14pm PT
Soaking is becoming my go-to remedy for my sore and tired joints. Too many projects exacts its toll. The bathtub inside is just ok.

So I just scored that old cookstove that I showed earlier in this thread. Maybe I can use some redneck tech and get that to heat my tub. My tub Is still in Cali, from a Daoist remodel. Free if I can get it up here. I have a bunch of copper pipe from another remodel. I will need a soak after I bash myself from building the thing.
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Jan 12, 2019 - 07:37pm PT
Rotting Johnny- which snorkel did you buy?

My dad and I have been trying to rig modern hot tub plumbing through an old coal stove. So far, not so good. We coiled some copper tube in the stove to heat the water, but we've had a lot of leak issues between plastic plumbing and hot copper.

We have a couple of redwood tanks. They swell right up when you want to use them, or throw a little sawdust in to stop the last leaks.

I've been eyeballing the snorkel stoves for a while now.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:33pm PT
Tom...It was a Snorkel Stove....I guess they have a bigger stove but i went with the smaller Snorkel...
F

climber
away from the ground
Jan 20, 2019 - 01:59pm PT

It takes a while to get the whole thing warmed up, but it takes even longer to cool down a thousand pounds of soapstone.
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Jan 21, 2019 - 02:02am PT
Heading out to the cabin and the wood stove and can’t wait!
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