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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 28, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
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I was waiting for your entry. It was overdue.
.....
Tens of billions being spent every year now around the world to combat sectarian Abrahamic fundamentalist driven violence and bloodshed... right now unlike 300 years ago largely manifested in Islamism.... and those who actually choose the pen (or keyboard) in lieu of the sword or IED to push back against it and its supernatural theistic nonsense are pointed out as vessels of HATRED of religion.
Oh life is messy.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Aug 28, 2015 - 10:55pm PT
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Come on fructose, whoever said you were not a problem solver? It wasn't me. I just think you go off the deep end on religion, that's all. I personally think you would be more effective for your position, if you were a little more subtle about it, but that's evidently not your nature. It wouldn't hurt you though, to kick back, relax and have a glass of wine or something.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 28, 2015 - 11:04pm PT
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Nah, it's just my HATRED of religion is all.
whoever said you were not a problem solver? It wasn't me.
What a silly reframing and non sequitur. Nonsense.
Who could make heads or tails of any of it?
"While some will argue that science should be only a method, it has been made amply clear on this thread that it is also a world view and can become a personal belief system that replaces religion."
By the way, more nonsense. On many points.
Bye bye.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 28, 2015 - 11:08pm PT
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The moon is out and very bright and nice.
Very auspicious.
Seems to have negative affect instead and caused a meltdown to you .......
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Aug 28, 2015 - 11:09pm PT
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. There are old apple farms back there. You've never had real apple cider until you've tasted some of that local product. The See Canyon road continues on up and over the hills
Ha, small world. My moms lived in the house next to The Cider House from 99'- 2012'. One of the perks she received from the See's family ffor managing the bakery in The Red Barn "vegetable stand". I spent the summer in like 07' remodeling her house and the cider stand. I'd ride my single gear up and over those hills to SLO down to Santa Maria and everywhere inbetween :) there's some good craggin on those pimples around SLO town too. And some sick hard limestone out on Hwy 158. (there i threw in some climbing to keep it relative). Beautiful landscape around those parts! But I'm more partial to Santa Barbara area where I went to school.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Aug 28, 2015 - 11:35pm PT
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It wouldn't hurt you though, to kick back, relax and have a glass of wine or something.
HA. you can't drink alcohol when mainlining Testosterone, it sez so right on the bottle. It can cause Impenitence, strokes, heart attacks, etc. : (
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 29, 2015 - 12:09am PT
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Alright, Jan, on further thought, I take it back.
POINTS: (1) Language what it is, we have LOVE and HATE as words to work with. (2) It seems every group and ideology these days are using HATE, HATER, HATING etc. to express themselves. (3) What's more I frequently express myself as loving this and loving that e.g., loving adventure, loving the outdoors, loving science, etc.
So.... I guess it's only logical, reasonable, etc that if I don't have a LOVE of Abrahamic religion then I have a HATE or HATRED of it..... if I'm passionately AGAINST it... just as one has a hatred of guns or a hatred of big game trophy hunting or a hatred of animal farming or a hatred of racism or a hatred of cancer or a hatred of ignorance if he's passionately against any of these things and does not have a LOVE of it.
I'm just not used to that word. But it seems everybody else is using it on the internet these days, I just heard it expressed elsewhere in similar context, so be it alrighty then.
A hatred of religion. A hatred of disease. A hatred of senseless killings. A hatred of police brutality.
We're all HATERS then on something or other. Especially if we are in some problem solving mode or setting. In the game and not on the sidelines. Choose your HATE or HATRED i guess.
We'll see how it sounds tomorrow.......
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Aug 29, 2015 - 12:18am PT
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being so scientifically astute as you are, maybe jus stick with positive and negative?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 29, 2015 - 12:26am PT
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So Blu, if I don't have a LOVE for a number of ideas you've exressed here... and in fact I am passionately against them... then I guess... logically speaking... it's a HATRED of them?
Funny strange, eh?
.....
Logically speaking then, I have a HATRED of this...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJE_UcNxmfs
And I suppose you all heard about the 80 year old archeologist who was beheaded this week too by ISIS for defending these ruins. I HATE that, too. Man, I AM a HATER!
We'll see if this language makes sense tomorrow...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Aug 29, 2015 - 12:38am PT
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Fructose you're right, English is very imprecise and lacks nuance for expressing emotions. I learned this when trying to find English equivalents for Japanese expressions of emotions. We are totally impoverished in that regard even compared to Greek which in love at least distinguishes between philos, eros, and agape.
Then again, the word hatred has taken on a new meaning when we discuss the actions of ISIS for example, and since you are so immersed in the repudiation of that, I guess I can see where the word hate upset you. That was not my intention anyway. I try not to get bogged down in negativism, but I too can say I hate / despise ISIS and all its actions.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 29, 2015 - 12:52am PT
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Alright, Jan, thanks for that.
Sweet dreams. Sweet dreams of LOVING. :)
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Aug 29, 2015 - 09:48am PT
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I spent the summer in like 07' remodeling her house and the cider stand.
So, that's what happened to all the alcohol containing cider.
Hey , the cider house rules!
BB , pull some strings for me and get me a rental in See Canyon. Tell them I'll work on their apple farm , damn it. There could be a couple gallons of cider in it for you!!
But I'm more partial to Santa Barbara area where I went to school.
Yeah I'm familiar with the general Santa Barbara area as well, including Solvang/Santa Ynez/Lake Cachuma/ San Marcos Pass Road. I ran away from home as a minor and lived for a summer on the beaches primarily around Carpenteria. I had a girlfriend who lived in Santa Ynez on a working farm. We would ride her dad's fine horses all over that area, especially on trails near Cachuma. An entire herd of dogs would be trailing behind us.
Huge place inside where those memories dwell.
As far as the on-going Science vs Religion debate: I'll be tying all this seemingly irrelevant material together at some future time, in due course.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Aug 29, 2015 - 11:32am PT
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I just feel compelled to say if one hates the destruction by ISIS of ancient monuments please remember they're being destroyed because ISIS recognizes they are dedicated/they were built to honor "false " or unreal, non existent gods... it's the destruction of belief they (isis) are certain is simply untrue and they want to protect the public from those false deities...
In a sense aren't they correct? Why would anyone want to save monuments built to deities that don't exist? We atheists are certain those deities are imaginary maybe we should applaud those monuments being destroyed. Let's put an end to Abrahamic religion and then tear down the pyramids.
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Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
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Aug 29, 2015 - 12:52pm PT
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^^^ And bomb that eerie Spinx thing. KA-BOOM!!!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 29, 2015 - 01:04pm PT
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Napoleon's boys already shot the nose off
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Aug 29, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
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Caretakers or Care-takees?
As I have looked out the window from our home in the past, at the property, the earth, the trees, the dry grasses, and the fences, I have always believed that we chose this place to make our home, believing we were the the caretakers of it, with me carrying out the duties of official groundkeeper for this three acre plot of earth, assuming my position of maintenance man for the grounds and attendant dwellings and facility's.
But, today for some strange reason I looked out that same window differently, out at our world with new eyes, seeing beyond our little plot across the grandeur of the valleys and the foothills, towards the east and over the mountains rich with a history of long ago discovered gold, and to the cloud filled the skies above Yosemite, beyond the edge of the horizon.
I saw myself in the world today for the first time in a new light, not as a caretaker but as quite the opposite, as a 'care-takee' of sorts, as a person that cannot assume the mantle of being responsible for an entire planet, not that attempting to help to assume part of that role would not be without benefit to our ecosystem and our survival.
But I saw myself today as quite the pawn on a planetary scale and as a mere chest piece of evolution. This is not say that I should not feel a responsibility to practice ecologically sound principles in my role as an inhabitant of the earth.
But more to the point, I wonder that I am not as directed and ordered by a force and power much greater than any civilization or species.
This power and force being on a planetary scale, or greater, might be beyond our detection and comprehension outside of the obvious transient physical nature of the world we see around us.
I'm not speaking to the idea of an earth consciousness or some spiritual idea of a kind of karmic god power directing matters from within our world or from a grand cosmic scale.
I'm only speaking about an unseen force driving us and placing before us the environment and timetable for us to exist within. This small scenario, untested by science and trivial in it's simplicity, has been derived at by humans throughout our existence and I'm sure no one reading this has not entertained their own fantasy or theory of it in some theological or philosophical aspect before.
We have had so many mythologies and creation stories passed down to us over the generations that long before we reach adulthood our heads have become so full of fanciful fictions that it's hard to believe there is room in our skulls for a place where logic and reason could occupy a part of our thinking.
Yet necessity, biology, evolution, institution, or some part or combination thereof has provided us with the impetus and motivation to develop our current technologically advanced civilization, or so we believe.
Could it be the contrary? Are we directed by a physiological life force of which we have lost direct conscious communication with? Or are we directed by unseen forces of such clandestine nature that we have never been, nor will we ever be, in direct communication with it or completely consciously cognizant of it?
In conclusion, albeit this is probably just another tired fiction theory, these ideas are based upon what was undeniably a simple thought and feeling I experienced today. Am I a caretaker of a place in this world or just the opposite? Well to be honest at least on a human scale, as a child, a student, a patient, a parent, an employer, and a citizen, I have been both. Regardless of my present status there is one certainty, that when the earth I occupy has deemed I have outlived my usefulness, it will find another human to toil, till, and suffer it.
Or, it will be just fine doing without.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 29, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
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NYT's article about the authenticity and validity of scientific research. Reading the article you might note that other areas than social sciences are suspected of having the same problems (MikeL)
I'm not saying the hard sciences (and math) do not have this problem, but I would guess it's much more prevalent in the soft social sciences.
When mathematicians gain a certain level of prestige it is not unusual for colleagues to not be as diligent in their refereeing as they would be for an author with whom they lack familiarity. Particularly if the research is the run of the mill stuff. But, no matter who the author, referees are hypercritical inquisitors if the work is deemed important.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 29, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
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Jgill:
I'm sure I overstated the comment from the article. But the idea is surely evidently there.
It's an imperfect process in every way, but "things" get done (if you follow that double entendre).
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Aug 29, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
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Could it be the contrary? Are we directed by a physiological life force of which we have lost direct conscious communication with?
For as much as We know about the universe(besides earth), what would you say the "physiological life force" be called; maybe Cause-n- Effect? Today We do have a bit of a glimpse of understanding to our own solar system. And with the exception of earth, the rest of the planets seem to be just material pawns with strings being pulled by Natural Forces/Laws. And as far as earth is concerned, before the invention of the eyeball, Earth and all the plant life was a disciple of the environment/natural forces. By that I mean trees and plants sprung up where ever the wind and water allowed, randomly through cause-n-effect. Right? Bit when Animals showed up, they had "Choice". They could eat what they wanted to eat. They could roam to a more hospitable environment, and find better things to eat. But they still had to eat within their ability. The Elephant ate what he could reach, and the Giraffe ate at his limit, etc, as examples. Then along came Man. No where in our solar system do we see an organism with so many choices. Each of us not only has the choice to cut down any plant to eat, we can even trim a bush to look like an elephant. So we are not just blowin in the wind carnivores, We Are Creators! Stepping on cause/effect to create the whims of our pleasures. Man may be a product of the environment, but We are surely Anti-Nature ; )
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Aug 29, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
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If I put my brain in high gear, examine all the evidence, weigh the pros and cons, remember what mother told me, and divide by the square root of minus one, with luck I can choose a toothpaste.
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