Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Oct 20, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
|
Stay off the routes those geezers put up!
Go find yer own.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
|
Oct 20, 2014 - 07:42pm PT
|
That, too. Go find a climbing gym.
Don't get so many tattoos.
Use that iphone 5 another year.
See if you can get an advance on your trust fund.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
Oct 20, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
|
Explain to the entitlement generation why your generation is entitled to subsidized fees in our parks and social security money from my paycheck.
my generation has been paying into ss for 40+ years. we're subsidizing you troll.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2014 - 02:55am PT
|
I don't mind increases to keep up with inflation but
in 1997, it cost $5 to get in the park. Now it's going to cost $30. I live in the park all this time. Have campgrounds been improved since 1997? ..no, in fact there are fewer. Has much of anything dramatically improved to match this huge increase in fees? No, can't say that either.
and this is a lot more than keeping up with inflation. The real political game is keeping taxes low for the rich while shifting revenue towards user fees that don't seem like taxes but are borne by those less likely to afford them.
And don't forget, these increased fees come along with an NPS whose concession contract diverts FAR more money to the NPS than before Delaware North came aboard. (creating a conflict of interest if you ask me, where, the more money the concession brings in, the more money the Park Service gets, which is in the business of regulating the prices DNC charges, that it will receive a kickback on)
And ya, the NPS wants $24 for a campsite, basically on the law of supply and demand since there are no showers anywhere, sometimes no electricity or hot water, it's not really comparable except to other places where they can charge anything due to location.
Give Seniors a break. You'll all get there one day and your pension will not give you 500% cost of living increases to cover NPS fee increases that exceed inflation
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2014 - 06:31am PT
|
No more fees without more showers, damnit!
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
|
bump..
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
|
They will need that money to fence off ElCap meadow and build the boardwalks.
|
|
Bad Climber
climber
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
|
I'm sorry, but I better get some damn nice full-body massage from a platoon of hottie cheerleaders in thongs and wet t-shirts if I'm paying $30 freakin' dollars to get into Yos. That's crazy! What Karl said ++100. Nothing improves, nothing changes, just more money down a black hole of pensions and waste. I remember when Adventure Pass fees went into effect for the Angeles Crest, and guess what improved? Not a damn thing. A year after the fees were imposed, the campground near the now-closed Mt. Williamson STILL had no bear-proof dumpsters, which should have been freakin' job one. I don't have much respect for these bureaucracies any more.
Grrrr.....
My only consolation is that my wife will be in the official "senior" range before I will, so we'll get a break then. Still a few years off, though. I've no problem with seniors getting a break, never have. They've been paying taxes for WAY longer than the youngsters. Time to get a break.
BAd
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
|
Isn't this fee increase still in the public commentary phase? While the bureaucratic juggernaut may well just push it straight through, there's a far better chance of political impact via commentary in the process, vs. this Forum.
The Adventure Pass is NOT a done deal, either. There's still room to push back against it...if/when the USFS manages to make fee access permanent, there will be no hope of seeing it reverse.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2350994/Is-the-National-Forest-FEE-project-dead
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 04:39pm PT
|
I say charge each person $10 per day and impale any seniors who try to sneak in (too many darn people in this world, and the rent is too damn high).
Climbers, however, and legit and get free passes to any park where they can rope up.
Should I run for congress?
|
|
Rick Krause
Trad climber
Madras, Or
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
|
This is a lot bigger problem, than Yosemite
"It appears the reason for such a drastic hike in the contract’s franchise fee is the NPS decision to use $25 million in Park funds and another $75 million borrowed from other national parks to “buy down” Xanterra’s LSI. This decision will in turn, by NPS’ own admission, result in cutting budgets of its staff, implementing hiring freezes and furloughing of NPS employees at a number of national parks. Additionally, the NPS recently
announced its intention to raise visitor entrance fees at many parks across the country."
Hotel concessionaire sues Park Service over Grand Canyon deal.
Read the full article
http://www.thecherrycreeknews.com/hotel-concessionaire-sues-park-service-grand-canyon-deal/
|
|
KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
|
"The additional revenue from the fee increase will be used to enhance visitor services, including repair and maintenance of park facilities, restoration and rehabilitation of visitor service buildings, additional park programs and transportation services, and increase resource protection."
|
|
Bad Climber
climber
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 - 06:35am PT
|
Thanks for the link, Rick. I read the whole thing. If the information is accurate,sounds like the NPS is psychotically out of line. Who the hell is running that circus? While I think too much private enterprise in parks can be a problem, the Xanterra folks have been there since before Grand Canyon was even a park! Certainly any construction/expansion/alterations of services must be cleared through park officials, so I don't see problems coming from that direction unless the NPS wants it. There's no way a private company would come in having to pay over 14% to the NPS. That's a guaranteed bankruptcy rate right there. Who would take such a contract? I don't understand the NPS reasoning on this. They must have some plan. Is it to somehow drive out Xanterra and takeover the concession services itself? Again, if the facts are straight in the linked article, I'm siding with Xanterra on this one and hope they win, although I deplore the tax money that will got to fight it. That's the problem with so much the gov't does: Officials are not playing with their own money and feel too little obligation to those who will pay.
BAd
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 - 10:50am PT
|
"There's no way a private company would come in having to pay over 14% to the NPS. That's a guaranteed bankruptcy rate right there. Who would take such a contract? "
When Yosemite's contract came up for bid last time, Delaware North offered the Park Service the moon and the stars to get the contract as they wanted this flagship park as their foot in the door and feather in their cap with a plan to expand to other national parks where their customers would be a captive group with no competitive choice, just like their other customers in airports, dog and horse racing tracks and private prisons.
This gave NPS the idea that they could use concessionaires as a profit center to finance ever increasing budgets (While the feds wean them from money so they don't have to raise taxes)
14% of GROSS receipts is a huge cut, unless of course, room and food rates are seriously inflated, which they will be in a monopoly situation where the NPS wolf is regulating the concession chicken coup rates. Yosemite prices (and fees) have far exceeded the rate of inflation
Peace
Karl
|
|
jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 - 11:35am PT
|
What needs addressing is the $10 senior pass and what a scam that is.
You're just sore that most of us geriatrics climb harder than you.
|
|
Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
|
Seniors enjoy YNP, perhaps not as much as climbers. They mostly seem to take pictures of the falls, hang out in their RV's, drive up to Glacier Point, take ranger tours, etc. For the most part they don't stay at Camp 4, or line up for Serenity Sons, nor do they use the backcountry much. They aren't clogging the bivi ledges on the Nose or knocking rocks on other parties. Basically with few exceptions they use the resource differently and don't compete directly with climbers. Sure the valley is crowded, but most climbers are happy if they have good weather, can find a place to stay, and can tick some climbs. Seniors are happy if they see a bear, enjoy the sun, and make it home in time for their next doctors appointment.
A special fee for oversize vehicles is fine with me.
(By way of full disclosure, I am an ageing and decrepit rock climber who is patiently looking forward to his first Senior Pass next year. The discount will be nice, but small compensation for my lost youth).
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
|
you all have blather in control go say something nice about Todd skinner
That the fee is going to go up is something that you can do naught about !
Have a favorite place a thread that means a little more than this one? I will say thank you
inadvance please remember this is a child who missed out on her Dad and could hear anything that a Dad might say or if that is to much of a stretch be nice and post a hey he was in every magazine I read. post up tonight please Read the posts you'll understand.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2014 - 06:32pm PT
|
you all have blather in control go say something nice about Todd skinner
That the fee is going to go up is something that you can do naught about !
Have a favorite place a thread that means a little more than this one? I will say thank you
inadvance please remember this is a child who missed out on her Dad and could hear anything that a Dad might say or if that is to much of a stretch be nice and post a hey he was in every magazine I read. post up tonight please Read the posts you'll understand.
Good idea..done
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Oct 26, 2014 - 01:20am PT
|
And my social security paid for the generation in front of me. If there isn't any left when you retire blame the folks you elected to fight stupid wars with the money.
Not true. If the SS fund was not lent at interest, it would be even more insolvent. The politicians we should excoriate are those that refuse to deal with the Fund's actuarial insolvency, their enablers such as AARP, and liars such as moveon.org that allege there's no problem.
As for fee increases, I'll gladly pay more for camping if they actually give us back the campsites we had as of, say 1960. Hell, by now, almost 20 years after the Great Flood, I'd almost settle for the sites available in 1970. I find it ridiculous that every day in summer has the "no campsites available" sign up.
I do, however, appreciate my Golden Age Passport, or as jstan calls it, the Golden Turkey.
John
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
|
Oct 26, 2014 - 01:32am PT
|
You mean to give a break to those who squandered the country, so that the next generations wouldn't have it as easy as they did? Already, they took over campgrounds with their filthy, polluting, noisy RVs and a normal tent camper can not enjoy these camps supported by their own taxes--they are nothing but RV parking lots. They book the sites up in advance and park the trailers for 2 weeks, making it a residence and a weekend tent camper is forced out.
You are welcome.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!