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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 20, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
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http://www.nps.gov/yose/parknews/feeincreaseopen.htm
entrance, campgrounds, etc
Frankly I dont much care. I have an annual pass and will continue to do so. What needs addressing is the $10 senior pass and what a scam that is. National Parks are already a playground for the well to do. This doesn't change a thing.
discuss
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Oct 20, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
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I like my lifetime senior pass for the one time $10 fee.
Don't mess with seniors. I'm sure you're just trolling, but well to do, really??? I think they go on cruises
Perhaps charge,by length of the vehicle like they do at my local car wash
Susan
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 20, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
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All the more reason folks will be sneaking in early morning. $60 for a Yosemite annual or $80 for an Interagency annual, that is a no brainer. The Interagency pass is also good for the NF Adventure fee, although I never display it because it seems like it is never enforced, I would rather not leave an 80 dollar pass on the dash. Some rangers say you can photocopy the pass, probably should?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 20, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
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A bear walked onto our tarp in between our sleeping bags at Upper Pines on Saturday night. We desperately need bear herders on staff at each campground.
Raise the fees and more shower facilities please.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
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I did mean 'well to do' Susan. You think people from a low SES are spending money on gas, camping gear, and all the other necessities for National Park touring?? Not many...
And yes I think the senior pass needs to be more expensive. Seniors are the largest park demographic, drive the biggest vehicles, and require the most park services such as, larger campgrounds for their rigs, nice hotels, nice paved roads that take you right to the trail head, LEED certified buildings to house a plethora of merchandise and sub par educational programs, SAR personnel for when their tickers give out on the mist trail...
all kidding aside, rather than me explain why I think seniors should pay more, how about you explain why you think seniors should not have to pay as much as the rest of the owners (and visitors) of this public space
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 20, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
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I don't believe seniors account for the majority of park visitors. Middle age folks with families? Maybe. But that would be offset by the youngsters they bring in.
I'd like to see a solid link on that.
I'm ok with seniors getting a break anyway.
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John M
climber
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Oct 20, 2014 - 05:04pm PT
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Sure there are seniors with a lot of money. There are also a lot of seniors with very limited means. The senior pass is a small thing.
The increase in the main fees pisses me off too. National park my ass.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Oct 20, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
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Where else are you going to get what you get for a mere $80.00? Everyone here complains about how everyone ELSE should pay more. Fuk off, when seniors are considered. If one uses the Park Pass enough, it becomes nearly a vanishingly small amount of money per visit. If you really want to use class warfare as an argument, then consider a "Motor Home Fee," just to bring one into a Park.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
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Survival
I googled it, and found the numbers for one park in one year. Everglades NP visitor survey from 2012. More could easily be found.
53% of visitation is in the 61+ age range. Lower the age range to 51+ (which I admit, 51-64 is not technically a senior, so please make whatever adjustments you want) and we have 74% of the visitation...These are not young people, or young families.
Not a big survey and it is only from one park on one year. But I believe it backs up my statement and shows a trend that most parks would align with.
http://www.nps.gov/ever/parkmgmt/upload/Visitor-Card-Survey-FY12.pdf
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 06:10pm PT
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brokedown: seniors have had their day in the sun as far as I am concerned. More like have had their years... Things are tough all over. Big user groups should share the load more equitably. Age sympathy my ass
I apply this same argument to wilderness areas and people who cant physically access them.
It wins me tons of friends.
EDIT: I will play devils advocate. My argument implies that user fees have anything in reality to do with what a park can and cant do it terms of funding. They dont. I suppose my fees argument loses.
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LuckyNeck
Trad climber
the basement of Lou's Tavern
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Oct 20, 2014 - 06:12pm PT
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I continue to hate this entitlement generation.
Watch your mouth sonny, and show your elders some respect.
rather than me explain why I think seniors should pay more, how about you explain why you think seniors should not have to pay as much as the rest of the owners (and visitors) of this public space
Dumb.
You want the status quo changed? Burden of proof is on you, don't flip it on to others when you're the one with the gripe.
You'll want to reply to this, I won't read it.
I'm out. (Mic drop)
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
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Lucky: Seniors are the biggest user group. The user fees should be equitable. Not subsidized.
Your turn old tymer. Go. Explain to the entitlement generation why your generation is entitled to subsidized fees in our parks and social security money from my paycheck. Explain why your generation is entitled to sympathy from mine. You guys have f'd us in the a if you ask me....
Edit: Dang I did want to reply to it...And please see my post prior to yours
Edit 2: Didnt the greatest generation call you guys the entitled generation and not the baby boomers?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Oct 20, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
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Most seniors, myself included, believe we've definitely paid our Fair Share through income taxes over the years.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Oct 20, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
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I'd like to see some stats on age demographics in parks other than the Everglades which is in Florida, the country's biggest retirement state.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Oct 20, 2014 - 07:02pm PT
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 20, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
http://www.nps.gov/yose/parknews/feeincreaseopen.htm
entrance, campgrounds, etc
Frankly I dont much care. I have an annual pass and will continue to do so. What needs addressing is the $10 senior pass and what a scam that is. National Parks are already a playground for the well to do. This doesn't change a thing.
discuss
Screw you. I paid that fee for 40 years to get my senior pass and never bitched about some old guy getting in cheaper.. It's your turn, slacker.
Get a job.
If you live long enough you"ll get yours.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
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Lorenzo and Brokedown. Your arguments are statements of entitlement. You paid for it already?? That is a lame argument in the face of a statement calling for equitable fees.
Enjoy my social security dollars and thank you for passing the buck on this busted ass retirement system we have.
cleo: I think bikes and walk-ins should be free in all parks. We need to stop encouraging driving.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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nice find krahmes. I already conceded defeat with my argument. It was flawed from the beginning in terms of finances and economics. My battle is now philosophical, remains unchanged, and appears to be very popular among this group. Fees should be equitable. No preferential treatment for seniors. Now that we have established my dislike for seniors, any other thoughts?
I did not notice a raise in back county permit fees which is good.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Oct 20, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 07:18pm PT
Lorenzo and Brokedown. Your arguments are statements of entitlement. You paid for it already?? That is a lame argument in the face of a statement calling for equitable fees.
cleo: I think bikes and walk-ins should be free in all parks. We need to stop encouraging driving.
Enjoy my social security dollars and thank you for passing the buck on this busted ass retirement system we have.
Equitable means everybody paying their fair share when their time is due. Let me know what your sorry ass paid compared to inflation when you are done in 40 years.
And my social security paid for the generation in front of me. If there isn't any left when you retire blame the folks you elected to fight stupid wars with the money.
Entitlement is deciding you don't have to pay up when you are supposed to under the system your elected officials set up. I earned my slot in the 47%.
When you pay up so will you. Not before.
And entitlement is deciding your fair share won't go up with inflation.
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