The 1980's. The missing history. Players.

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deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 12, 2014 - 11:48am PT
Reading a few threads on Facebook today, there was an article on the new Reel Rock film, Valley Uprising, where a comment was made about the same old stories being rehashed (actually in a google search context). Coz commented how the Yosemite 80's are a forgotten era.

Some of the stories and characters have been told--bits and bites providing some insight on the complex personality of Walt Shipley for example, or the raw wildness of Tucker Tech. But the issue in general is that there's been no historian for the era. For up to the 70's, Roper covers with literacy genius the historical aspects, and Long expertly recounts key episodes which provide insight on the atmosphere. Then the 90's brought the MTV and Internet era, so much has been captured for perpetuity there. But for the 80's the essence hasn't been fully exposed.

When I think of that time, I think of all the colourful, high energy personalities. To name a few:
Don Reid
Grant Hiskes
Russ Walling
John Yablonski
Mike Lechlinksi
Al Swanson
Steve Schneider
Mike Lechlinski
Rick Cashner
Mike Corbett
Steve Bosque
Tory Johnson
Dan McDivett
Sue Bonovich
Tracy Dorton
Scott Cosgrove
Kurtz Smith
Jo Whitford
Bill Russell
Rick Albushcat
Michael J Paul
Roland Arsons
Steve Gerberding
Dean Fidelman (almost unique in his notion to take some pictures)
Dave Schultz
Werner Braun


Missing a lot, these are just off the top of my head. But for each of these characters, there's a worthy story.

Mike O'Donnell writes, "I was there...Does it matter?" That almost explains the era best--we were all just doing wild things, with no notion of GoPro, live blogging, mag articles, or any other sharing of episodes outside our circle. And for the most part it's kind of stayed that way-the 60's and 70's were a historical time, and the 90's the start of the new era of every exploit recorded for mass media. The 80's era was very inward in this regard.

But I reckon if there were a few bits from each of the characters of the era, a fleshing out of the true essence of the 80's might be exposed.

I'll come back as more folks on the list come to mind--every one triggers a new story that fleets by--in the meantime, help me flesh out the list above...

Kind of two themes here--one is the personalities, the other is actually a historical context, as the modern era has been influenced by developments in the 80's.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:05pm PT
1980
666 , 5.12c Dave Schultz John Bachar
Alien , 5.12b Tony Yaniro
Annette Funicello , 5.11d Chris Cantwell Mark Grant
Auntie Gravity , 5.11d Steve Monks L. Broomhead
Barefoot Servants , 5.10c Don Reid Alan Bartlett Alan Roberts
Bikini Beach Party , 5.10a Chris Cantwell Mark Grant
Black Sunday , 5.10a Chris Cantwell Bruce Morris
Cat's Squirrel , 5.12a Bill Price Augie Klein
Controlled Burn , 5.11a Don Reid Grant Hiskes
Cosmic Debris , 5.13b Bill Price
Cosmic Messanger , 5.11a Bob Williams
Dancin' Days , 5.11c Bob Williams
Energy Crisis , 5.11d Bill Price Randy Grandstaff
Goldfingers , 5.12a Chick Holtkamp Eric Zschiesche
Gotham City , 5.11d Bill Price John Long
Gunks Revisited , 5.11c Ron Kauk Kim Carrigan
Hockey Night in Canada , 5.10 Perry Beckham Scott Flavelle Dave Lane
King Snake , 5.12 Chris Cantwell Mark Grant
Malice Aforethought , 5.11a Brad Young Ron Skelton
Mary's Tears , 5.11b Bill Price Mike Borris
Mirage , 5.12a Dale Bard Rick Cashner
More Balls then Brains , Dana Brown
Mud Shark , 5.8 Billy Serniuk Charleen Serniuk Jack Dodalou
No Falls Wall , 5.10b Chris Cantwell Mike Borelli
Once is Enough , Bill Price Larry Zulim Jim Hevner
Out on a Limb , 5.11b Eric Kohl
Rainbow Bridge , 5.11d Chris Cantwell Scott Burk Bruce Morris
Remember Ribbon Falls , 5.12 Rick Cashner Dale Bard
Space Doubt , 5.10c Alan Nelson Y. Matsumoto
Stubs , 5.12a Werner Braun Dale Bard Ed Barry
Terminal Research , 5.11c Randy Leavitt Gary Zaccor Tony Yaniro
Texas Chain Saw Massacre , 5.11a Chris Cantwell Augie Klein
Torque Converter , 5.11d Dave Anderson Chick Holtkamp
Trough of Justice , 5.10b Chris Cantwell
Vortex , 5.12 Chick Holtkamp Randy Russell
White Zone, The , 5.11d Chris Cantwell Mark Grant


1981
A la Moana , 5.11a John Yablonski Werner Braun
A-5 Pinnacle , 5.10a Larry Zulim Bob Jasperson Scott Cole
Afterglow , 5.10d Chris Cantwell Scott Burk
Aftershock , 5.11b Tony Yaniro Max Jones
Ape Index , 5.11b Werner Braun
Aurora , 5.8 Peter Mayfield Greg Child
Beggar's Buttress , 5.11c Chris Cantwell Bruce Morris
Bulging Puke , 5.9 Bill Russell Chris Friel
Chinese Water Torture , 5.11 Karl McConachie Jay Smith
Chiropodist Shop , 5.11b Rick McGregor
Colony of Slippermen , 5.11+ Chris Cantwell Mark Grant
Compass , 5.10c Rick Cashner
Crest Jewel , 5.10a Dan Dingle Michael Lucero
Cynical Pinnacle, Right , 5.10c Chris Cantwell
Desperate Kneed, A , 5.11a John Yablonski Don Reid Rick Cashner
Disconnected , 5.11c Chris Cantwell Eric Zschieche
Dock of the Bay , 5.11c Bill Price Larry Zulim
Dr. Feel Good , 5.10d Bruce Morris Mike Hernandez Scott Cole
Ephemeral Clogdance , 5.11b Rick McGregor Robert Parker
Falcon , 5.10b Chris Cantwell Larry Zulim Becky Plourd Sue Moore
Final Decision , 5.11b Anders Lundahl Eva Selim
Fire and Brimstone , 5.11d Chick Holtkamp Chris Ballinger
Frosted Flakes , 5.10d Chris Cantwell Eric Zschieche
Gardener Did It, The , 5.9 Chris Cantwell Mike Borelli
God's Creation , 5.9 Chris Cantwell Eric Zschieche
Handshake , 5.9 Mark Ingdal
Hara-kiri , 5.10a Tom Gilje
Little Thing , 5.11d Tony Yaniro Alan Nelson
Mad Pilot , 5.11b Rob Rohn Peter Croft
Phyllis , Mike Forkash Peter Lahrach
Pink Banana , 5.10d Chris Cantwell Bruce Morris Mike Hernandez Donald Cantwell
Robin , 5.12b Bill Price Tony Yaniro
Rocket Man , Chris Cantwell
Skunk Weed , 5.11c Scott Burk Dave Caunt
Soul Sacrifice , 5.11c Werner Braun
Straight In , 5.10a Werner Braun Rick Cashner
Sunblast , 5.13a Don Reid Grant Hiskes
Turkey Vulture , 5.11b Jeff Smith Kevin Lathrop
Zenyatta Mondatta , 5.7 Jim Bridwell Peter Mayfield Charlie Row


1982
Air Bare , 5.10c Eric Mayo
Blue Ribbon , Don Reid Michael Brocado
Champagne on Ice , 5.11 Steve Schneider Dave Caunt
Chow Chow Chow , 5.10c Dave Yerian Bruce Morris
Diversions , 5.10a Marshall Ravenscroft Tim Kemple
Free Bong , 5.11a Larry Zulim Chris Cantwell
Gray Bullet, The , 5.8 Don Reid Dennis Oakeshott
Hampton Estates , 5.9 Alan Bartlett Alan Roberts Bill Critchlow
Hand Out , 5.10c Rick Cashner Don Reid
Happy Days , 5.11d Werner Braun Rick Cashner Chris Bellizzi
Higher Aspirations , 5.8 Rik Derrick Steve Bosque
Iconoclast , Scott Cole
Kung Pao Chicken , 5.10b Dan Hare Kathy Cassidy
Le Bachar , 5.11b John Bachar Mike Lechlinski Mari Gingery
Lunar Eclipse , 5.7 John Barbella Steve Schneider
Mediterraneo , Miguel Angel Gallego Jose Luis Gallego Javier Gallego Carlos Gallego
Mischief , 5.8 Marshall Ravenscroft Tim Kemple
Moongerms , 5.11d John Bachar Werner Braun
New Testament , 5.10d Don Reid Rick Cashner
New Traditionalists , 5.10b Peter Chesko Rick Cashner Werner Braun
Nine Lives , 5.11b Bruce Morris Dave Sessions
Old A5 , Peter Chesko
Outta Hand , 5.11b Dale Bard Rick Cashner
Pacemaker , 5.9 Steve Bosque Mike Corbett Murray Barnett Jim Siler
Pink Pussycat , Don Reid Greg Sonagere
Plane Fare , 5.10b Eric Mayo
Roger Stokes Route , 5.8 Marshall Ravenscroft Tim Kemple
Scott-Child , 5.10a Doug Scott Greg Child
Seand Paradise , Francek Knez Marjan Freser
Silent Line , 5.10c Rick Cashner Werner Braun
Skid Row , 5.8 Alan Bartlett Dimitri Barton
Squeeze Play , 5.10 Mike Corbett Gary Edmondson Rich Albuschkat
Sunset Strip , 5.11a Chick Holtkamp Eric Zschiesche
Supertoe , 5.10d Chris Cantwell Larry Zulim
T.D.'s Dihedral , 5.9 Tim Kemple Marshall Ravenscroft
Tithe , 5.9 Don Reid Rick Cashner
Too Much Paranoia , 5.10b Rick Cashner Don Reid
Triscuit, The , 5.9 Alan Bartlett
Tunnel Vision , 5.12d John Bachar
Unemployment Line , 5.9 Alan Bartlett Jim May Steve Gerberding
Wand, The , 5.11d Dimitri Barton
Wild Child , 5.9 Tim Kemple Marshall Ravenscroft
Wings of Steel , 5.10+ Richard Jensen Mark Smith
Young and the Restless , 5.10c Werner Braun Rick Cashner Grant Hiskes Scott Cole Dimitri Barton


1983
Arctic Sea , 5.10 Tom Cosgriff Duane Raleigh
Bottom Line , 5.11d Bill Price Dimitri Barton
Buried Treasure , 5.11a Steve Schneider Rob Oravetz
Crack Me Up , Mike Corbett Ernie Maylon
Dakishna (Psycho Killer) , Dan Dingle Ken Black
Die Schweine Von Oben , 5.11 Bill Russell Paul Fiola
Domehead , 5.10b Bill Russell Pat Ranstrom
East of Paradise , Francek Knez Marjan Freser
End of the World , 5.10d Werner Braun Don Reid
Essence , 5.11b Werner Braun Don Reid
Eura Mura , Francek Knez Lidija Painkiher Igor Skamperle
Exodus , 5.10b Jay Smith Gary Anderson
Filthy Rich , 5.9 Alan Bartlett Don Reid
Fool's Gold , 5.10a Don Reid Rick Cashner
Golden Dawn , 5.10d Bruce Morris Urmas Franosch
Here On the Inside (Here on the Outside) , 5.11a Urmas Franosch Bruce Morris
Into the Fire , 5.11b Dan Hare Mike O'Donnell
Isotope , 5.11d John Bachar Dimitri Barton Ron Kauk Werner Braun
Later , 5.11a Werner Braun Doug McDonald
Look Before You Leap , 5.11a Steve Schneider Rob Oravetz
Mideast Crisis , 5.8 Steve Bosque Mike Corbett
Natural End , 5.9 Will Gilmer Jay Anderson
No Butts About It , 5.10b Phil Bard
Now , 5.10a Werner Braun Rick Cashner Don Reid
Omakara , 5.12b John Bachar
Pieces of Eight , 5.10c Scott Burk Steve Schneider
Precious Powder , 5.11a Bruce Morris Jim Elias
Promise, The , 5.11b John Bachar Dimitri Barton
Psycho Killer (Dakshina) , 5.11 Dan Dingle Ken Black
Rainbow , 5.10 Paul Fiola Chris Friel
Roachweed , 5.11b Bruce Morris Jim Elias
Rocket in My Pocket , 5.11c Jim Elias Bruce Morris Kevin Lollard
Scorpian Man , 5.10d Bill Russell Pat Ranstrom
Snake , Francek Knez Wallace
Spring Chicken , 5.11a Murray Judge Roger Whitehead
Spring Fever , 5.11b Don Reid Rick Cashner
Star Drive , 5.10 Mike Corbett Steve Bosque
Straight Jacket , 5.10d Greg Child Doug Scott
Ticket to Nowhere , 5.11c Bob Gaines John Mallery Tom Callahan Mike Paul Franciso Blanco
Token, The , 5.11d Scott Burk


1984
Agent Orange , 5.10d Don Reid Grant Hiskes
Back in the Saddle , 5.11a Dimitri Barton
Bad to the Bone , 5.9+ Jay Smith Lidija Painkiher
Believer, The , 5.12a John Bachar
Bermuda Dunes , 5.11c Steve Schneider John Barbella
Blank Out , 5.12 Eric Zschiesche Peter Croft
Blockbuster , 5.11c Don Reid Grant Hiskes Dimitri Barton
Bottom Feeder , 5.10a Norman Boles Brian Bennett Stu Ritchie
Building Blocks , 5.8 Alan Bartlett Bill Frey
Crack the Whip , 5.11b Don Reid Grant Hiskes
Dolly Dagger , 5.9 Alan Bartlett
False Shield , Charles Cole
Firefingers , 5.11b Charles Cole
Fresh Squeezed , 5.10a Grant Hiskes Sean Plunkett
Horse Play , 5.9 Steve Grossman Sue Harrington
Inchworm , 5.11b John Bachar Rick Cashner
King Cobra , 5.10a Grant Hiskes Dave Schultz
Knife, The , 5.11b Don Reid
Licenced to Fly , 5.11d Jim Elias Bruce Morris
Moan Fest , 5.10c Dimitri Barton Steve Gerberding
Nightmare Continuation , 5.11d John Bachar Rick Cashner
Nowhere Man , 5.10c Don Reid Dave Yerian
People's Court , 5.10d Paul Crawford Paul Teare Scott Woolums
Poker Party , 5.11- Dave Schultz
Porker Party , 5.11b Dave Schultz John Middendorf Joe Hedge
Queen of Spades , 5.9 Charles Cole
Real Nose , 5.10 Charles Cole Steve Grossman
Roulette , Earl Redfern Tom Bepler
Rupto Pac , 5.11c Eric Mayo Brian Bennett
Say Mama, Say Daddy , 5.10a John Middendorf Scott Cosgrove
Skull Queen , 5.8 Dave Altenburg Chuck Clance Steve Bosque
Smith-Crawford , 5.11d Jay Smith Paul Crawford
Spank Your Monkey , 5.10b Brian Bennett Stu Ritchie Norman Boles
Static Cling , 5.10a Don Reid Rick Cashner
Time Machine , Bob Shonerd
Turning Point , 5.11 Steve Grossman
Vantage Point , 5.11a Don Reid Werner Braun
Void Continuation , 5.10d Dimitri Barton Steve Gerberding
Wart Hog , 5.9 Grant Hiskes Nadim Melkonian
White Owl , 5.11d Dimitri Barton
Wing of Bat , 5.10c Don Reid Mike Corbett
Wyoming Sheep Ranch , 5.8 Rob Slater John Barbella


1985
ABC Route , 5.11 Ron Kauk Jerry Moffat
Absolute Vodka , 5.11 Tucker Tech
America's Cup , 5.12b Kim Carrigan Geoff Wiegand
Atlantic Ocean Wall , 5.9 John Middendorf John Barbella
Autobahn , 5.11d Charles Cole Rusty Reno John Middendorf
Bad News Bombers , 5.10a Steve Annecone Tom Hayes
Blazo , 5.8 John Middendorf
Chump Change , 5.12a Doug McDonald
Color Me Gone , 5.9 Don Reid Ron Skelton
Cowboys in Space , Greg Child Randy Leavitt
Crack 'n Face , 5.10b Ed Barry
Crash Landing , 5.10 Dave Schultz
Dagger , 5.11a Walt Shipley Russ Walling
Days of Our Lives (One Life to Live) , 5.11a Walt Shipley
Dead Squirrel , 5.9 Ray Sebastian Tim Felton
Delivitry , 5.11a John Tuttle Michael Forkash
Deuceldike, The , 5.9 Charles Cole Rusty Reno John Middendorf
Disco Strangler , 5.10 Earl Redfern Tom Bepler Eric Brand
Dumbo Go Home , 5.9 John Middendorf Tucker Tech
Dyslexia , 5.10d Ellie Hawkins
East of Eden (QED) , 5.11a Bob Gaines Jay Smith
El Matador , 5.12a Dimitri Bevc Steve Schneider
Eye in the Sky , 5.10b Mark Spencer Shirley Spencer Dan Abbot David Abbot
Fasten Your Seat Belts , 5.10d John Bachar Rick Cashner
Fine Line , 5.10a Grant Hiskes Doe DeRoss
Fireside Chat , Walt Shipley John Middendorf
Fish Fingers , 5.11b Jonny Woodward Maria Cranor
Foaming at the Crotch , 5.10a Lance Rowlands Tucker Tech
Free Ride , 5.10a John Bachar Rick Cashner
Friday the 13th , 5.10b Dimitri Barton Scott Burk
G-Man , 5.11b Steve Grossman
Hawaiian, The , 5.10a Don Reid Ron Skelton
Headhunter , 5.10- John Bachar Rick Cashner
Hell's Hollow , 5.10a Ken Ariza Doe DeRoss Nick Arms Mark Carpenter
Hey Walt , 5.10b Walt Shipley
Indica Point , 5.10b Walt Shipley Dimitri Barton
Klingon , 5.11c Jonny Woodward Dimitri Barton
Landshark , 5.12a Jonny Woodward Chris Peisker
Learning to Crawl , 5.9 Mike Corbett Steve Bosque Fritz Fox
LeNocturne , 5.10a Brian Bennett Michael Forkash
Liberty Cap, West Buttress , 5.10 Mike Corbett Steve Bosque
Life Worth Living , 5.11d Scott Cosgrove Ken Ariza
Light Weight Guides , 5.10a Grant Hiskes Tim Noonan Neal Newcomb
Lost in America , 5.10 Randy Leavitt Greg Child
Meat Puppet , 5.10 Dimitri Barton
Midnight Rampest , 5.10d John Middendorf Tucker Tech
Miramonte , 5.10c Steve Schneider Dimitri Bevc
Mirror, Mirror Left , 5.10b Eric Brand Jonell Geller
Mistfitz , 5.11d Kurt Smith Dave Griffith Chris Beigh
Mr. Midwest , 5.10 Bill Russell Doug McDonald
Murcia Costa Calida , 5.10 Jose Luis Gallego Javier Gallego
Opposition , 5.11d John Bachar Werner Braun
P.M.S. , 5.11a Tucker Tech Mike Sciacca
Peeping Tom , 5.10a Grant Hiskes Neal Newcomb Tim Noonan
Pink Torpedo , 5.11b John Sherman Todd Skinner
Plank, The , 5.10b Don Reid Alan Roberts
Play Misty for Me , 5.11 Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett Ken Ariza Dave Griffith
Powerslave , 5.11b Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett Ken Ariza
Radical Chic , 5.9 Dimitri Barton Joe Hedge
Ray's Pin Job , 5.12b Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett
Realm of the Flying Monkeys , 5.10a Steve Bosque Dan McDevitt
Return to the Stone Age , 5.11a Ed Barry Scott Cosgrove
Romantic Tension , 5.10d Jonny Woodward Dimitri Barton
Safe to Surf , 5.10a Bob Ost Matt Hilden
Scuz Ball , 5.7 Don Reid
Simulkrime , 5.9 John Middendorf Tucker Tech
Sleight of Hand , 5.10b Bob Ost Norman Boles
Something for Nothing , 5.11d Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett
Space , 5.10 Charles Cole
Stealth Technology , 5.11a Don Reid
Stupid Pet Tricks , 5.10b Brian Bennett Vince DePasque Jack Wenzel
Submen , 5.11b Steve Schneider Rob Oravetz John Middendorf
Sultans of Sling , 5.10c Brian Bennett George Watson Norman Boles
Sunday Driver , 5.10b Ken Ariza Mark Carpenter Dimitri Barton
Survival Sampler , Alfred Randall Bryan Burdo
Teaching Little Fingers , 5.11a Eric Gompper Dan Parks Raph Shaffer
Ten Years After , 5.10d Ken Ariza Kurt Smith
Tenaya's Terror , 5.9 Mike Corbett Steve Bosque
Terminator, Left , 5.11b Don Reid
Tom Cat , 5.10b Ken Ariza Tommy Thompson
Too Big for Her Top , Peter Chesko Bill Russell
Verano Magico , Jose Luis Gallego Javier Gallego
Viper, The , 5.11c Werner Braun John Middendorf
Where's the Reef , 5.10 Ken Ariza Eric Kohl
Zap the Gipper , Scott Cosgrove
Zoner , 5.11b Mark Spencer Shirley Spencer Floyd Hayes


1986
Alamo , 5.11a Al Swanson Ken Yager Dave Schultz Grant Hiskes
Amoeba, The Right Side , 5.11c Michael Forkash Andy Burnham
Anal Tongue Darts , 5.10c Brian Bennett Bob Ost
Apathy Buttress , 5.9 Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza Tracy Dorton
Arete Butler , 5.10a Norman Boles George Watson Brian Bennett
Astro Spam , 5.11a Norman Boles Brian Bennett
Avalon , 5.10b John Tuttle Brian Bennett Michael Forkash
Back to the Future , 5.12d Ron Kauk
Bark at the Moon , 5.11b Ken Ariza Mark Carpenter Dave Walters
Beat the Clock , 5.10c Michael Forkash Andy Burnham
Boogie with Stu , 5.10d Tracy Dorton Walt Shipley Steve Gerberding Stu Ritchie
Brainbucket , 5.10d Dave Schultz Kurt Smith Mike Hatchett Joe Hedge
Breathalizer , 5.10b Eric Kohl Eric Brand
Butthole Climber , 5.10c Brian Bennett John Tuttle
Catch a Wave , 5.11d Scott Cosgrove
Chicken's Choice , 5.10b Sigrid Anderson Jerry Anderson
Combustable Knowledge , 5.10d Mark Carpenter Dave Bengston
Crazy Train , 5.10c Mike Hatchett Ken Ariza
Creeping Lethargy , 5.10d Dimitri Barton
Crying for Mama , 5.10a Charles Cole John Middendorf
Dale's Pin Job , 5.13 John Bachar
Dancing in the Dark , 5.11c Scott Cosgrove Al Swanson
Danger Will Robinson , 5.10d Brian Bennett Bob Ost
Dark Star , 5.10b Andy Burnham Michael Forkash
Deaf, Dumb and Blind , 5.10a Jeff Hornibrook Mark Carpenter
Delicate Delineate , 5.11c Jerry Anderson Sigrid Anderson
Destination Zero , 5.11a Bruce Morris Ken Ariza
Doggie Submission , 5.10b John Tuttle Brian Bennett
Draw the Line , 5.11b Mark Carpenter Nick Arms
Eraser Flake , 5.11a Walt Shipley Tucker Tech
Extra Credit , 5.10d Walt Shipley Werner Braun
Famous Potatoes , 5.11b Todd Montgomery Trent Smith
Fast Lane, The , 5.11d Dimitri Barton Scott Burk Chris Hash
Fire Drill , 5.10d Brian Bennett John Tuttle
Fist Puppet , 5.11a Walt Shipley Bill Russell
Fistibule , 5.11c Werner Braun Walt Shipley
Flight Attendant , 5.10c Ken Yager Dave Schultz Grant Hiskes
Follying , 5.11c Walt Shipley
Free Clinic , 5.11b Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza
Full Steam Ahead , 5.11d Rob Robinson Chris Snyder
Going Nowhere , 5.11b Werner Braun Scott Cosgrove
Grokin' , 5.11b Ed Barry Chris Falkenstein
Groundhog , 5.11b Eric Kohl Eric Brand
Guides Route , 5.6 Roy McClanahan
Guru Crack, Right , 5.10a Charles Cole Rusty Reno
Heading for Oblivion , 5.10 Jim Beyer
Hobknob , 5.8 George Meyers Merrill Wilson
Holidays , 5.8 Scott Cosgrove Jenny Naquin
Isoceles Revisited , 5.10b Urmas Franosch Sean Plunkett Michael Forkash
Israeli Bomber , 5.10c Walt Shipley Phil Chapman
Joe Palmer , 5.11b Michael Forkash Andy Burnham
Karma , 5.11d Dave Schultz Ken Yager Jim Campbell
Ken's Dream , 5.10a Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza
Kids are All Right, The , 5.7 Jerry Anderson Sigrid Anderson Lynnea Anderson William Anderson
Krovy Rookers , 5.10b Norman Boles Brian Bennett
Lay Lady Lieback , 5.11a Jerry Anderson Sigrid Anderson
Local Motion , 5.11d Doug McDonald Werner Braun
Looking for Lichen , 5.10b Brian Knight Linus Platt Michael Harris
Loyd's Lolly Pop , 5.9 Dave Schultz Ken Yager Grank Hiskes
Lycra Virgin , 5.11d Ron Kauk
Lynnea's Birthday Surprise , 5.10a Jerry Anderson Sigrid Anderson Lynnea Anderson
Marvin Gardens , 5.10 Bill Matthies Tom Tumiano Brent Reynolds
Minor Kinda Unit , 5.9 Dave Schultz Ken Yager Grank Hiskes
Mirror, Mirror Right , 5.9 Eric Brand Tom Shores
Moe, Larry, The Cheese , 5.10c Brian Bennett John Tuttle
My Rhombus , 5.10a Dan McDevitt Sue Bonovich
Nanbeeb , 5.10b Michael Forkash Andy Burnham
Neil Down , 5.11c Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza Tracy Dorton
No Teats , 5.10a Susan Lilly Tucker Tech
North by Northwest , 5.11a Dimitri Barton
Nothing Good Ever Lasts , 5.10d Joe Hedge
Nothing on the Apron , 5.11c Bruce Morris Ken Ariza Gary Rabbe Stu Ritchie
On the Waterfront , 5.9 Steve Bosque Mike Corbett Gwen Schneider
Panther, The , 5.11d Joe Hedge Dave Hatchett Ken Ariza Ed Collins
Permanent Waves , 5.10b Chris Hash Gene Hash Scott Burk
Phantom , 5.13a John Bachar
Pimper's Paradise , 5.11d Scott Cosgrove Dave Griffith
Pit Stop , Phil Chapman Walt Shipley
Poker Face , 5.10b Dan McDevitt Sue Bonovich
Prime Time , 5.9 Rick Cashner Dimitri Barton Dave Neilson Grant Hiskes
Princess, The , 5.9 Brian Bennett Brian Hoffmann Michael Forkash
Psychic Energy , 5.11b John Pruett
Public Opinion , 5.10c Grant Hiskes Ken Yager
Punch Line, The , 5.10d Al Swanson Brian Bennett Brian Bailey
Rambler, The , 5.10d Steve Gerberding Scott Burk Chris Hash Gene Hash
Remnant, The, Center Route , 5.12a John Bachar
Rock Neurotic , 5.11b Dave Caunt Rob Settlemeyer John Barbella
Roller Coaster , 5.8 Ken Ariza Mike Hatchett Mark Carpenter
Run With Me , 5.10a Brian Bennett John Tuttle
Same as it Never Was , 5.11b Jay Smith Karl McConachie Randy Grandstaff
Sons of Yesterday , 5.10a John Tuttle Drew Davol Vince DePasque
Stay Free , 5.11b Dave Schultz Walt Shipley
Stroke (My Erect Ear Tuffs) , 5.10c Dave Altman Rob Oravetz
Sylvester's Meow , 5.11a Rick Sylvester Sue Odom
Tapestry , 5.9 Heidi Pesterfield Brian Bennett
Tennessee Strings , 5.12a Rob Robinson Cade Lloyd
Thin Line , 5.11c Werner Braun Scott Cosgrove
Through Bein' Cool , 5.10c Rick Cashner Dimiti Barton Dave Neilson
Tooth or Consequences , 5.11b Charles Cole Lidija Painkiher
Valley Syndrome , 5.11c Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza Tracy Dorton
Violent Bear It Away, The , 5.10c John Tuttle Vince DePasque
Walk of Life , 5.10d Ron Kauk Kevin Worrall Mark Chapman
Water Babies , 5.11a Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza Tracy Dorton
Way Lost , 5.9 Tucker Tech Lee Price
Weird Scenes in the Gold Mine , 5.10a Ken Ariza Dave Hatchett
White Dike, The , 5.10d Brian Bennett George Watson Eric Mayo
Wicked Jones Crusher , 5.10b Dimitri Barton Roy McClanahan
Yosemite Pointless , 5.9 Bob Ost Norman Boles


1987
Animal Crackers , 5.11c Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett
Base Hits , 5.12a Kurt Smith Charlie Fowler Stu Ritchie Ken Ariza
Battlescar , 5.11d Ed Barry Doug MacDonald
Beer Pressure , 5.10a Walt Shipley
Bellyshooter, The , 5.9 Bob Ost Brian Young
Beyond the Fringe , 5.10c Dan Nguyen Clint Cummins
Big Chill, The , 5.9 Jim Bridwell Peter Mayfield Sean Plunkett Steve Bosque
Blackballed , 5.10b Dan McDevitt Sue Bonovich
Blasphemy , 5.11a Walt Shipley Tucker Tech
Block Horror Picture Show , 5.9 Don Reid Tucker Tech
Blueballed , 5.10b Elliot Robinson Bruce Morris Mike Hernandez
Book End , 5.9 Tucker Tech
Center Direct , 5.10d Mark Chapman Kevin Worrall Ron Kauk Ed Barry
Chairman Ted Scraps the Time Machine , 5.10a Greg Murphy Melanie Findling
Clan of the Big Hair , 5.11c Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Crazy , 5.11d Jay Smith Paul Van Betten Sal Mamusia
Digital Delight , 5.12a Dimitri Barton Ken Ariza Joe Hedge
Drink and Drive , 5.11a Tucker Tech Walt Shipley
Duck and Cover , 5.11 Dave Schultz Jim Campbell
Duty Now for the Future , 5.12b Kurt Smith
Dwindling Stances , 5.10c Tucker Tech
Emotional Wreckage , 5.11b Walt Shipley
Endorphine , 5.11d Charles Cole Rusty Reno
Fifty Crowded Variation , 5.10a Clint Cummins Nancy Kerrebrock
Fig Neutron , 5.11b Charlie Fowler Ed Collins Dave Hatchett Kurt Smith
Five o'Clock Shadow , 5.9 Jay Smith Penny Fogel
Floating Lama , 5.11c Doug McDonald
General Dynamics , 5.13a Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett
Gold Leaf , 5.9+ Tucker Tech John Harpole
Grove Route , 5.8 Tucker Tech John Harpole
Heartland , 5.10 John Barbella Eric Brand
Heretic , 5.10c Walt Shipley Tucker Tech
Hookie , 5.12a Jason Campbell
Lethal Weapon , 5.11d Tom Herbert Jason Campbell
Lingering Lines , 5.10- Tucker Tech Cade Lloyd
Loose Tooth City , 5.10a Tucker Tech Don Reid
Love Missle F1-11 , 5.10b Don Reid "Stretch"
Luminescent Wall , 5.10b John Barbella Walt Shipley
Machine Head , 5.11c Norman Boles Alex Dropshoff
Master Lock , 5.12 Ron Kauk
Moonchild , 5.10 Dave Hatchet Mike Hatchett
Mouse That Soared, The , 5.10- Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Native Son , 5.9 Walt Shipley Troy Johnson
Ninja Flakes , 5.11 Kurt Smith Dave Hatchett
Original Chips Ahoy , 5.10c Dave Caunt Troy Johnson
Party Mix , 5.10b Dave Caunt Charlie Fowler Troy Johnson Kurt Smith
Poodle With A Mohawk , 5.9 Rick Molinar Bob Ost Karl Sonnberger
Porcelain Pup , 5.10b Walt Shipley Rob Oravetz
Quaker Flake , 5.10b Tucker Tech Kevin Fosburg
Rest for the Wicked , 5.11c Bruce Morris Stu Ritchie Dimitri Barton
Sacrilege , 5.11a Walt Shipley Tucker Tech
Sceptor, The , 5.11a Don Reid Alan Roberts
Scorched Earth , 5.11 Randy Leavitt Rob Slater
Silent Majority , 5.10b Clint Cummins Jim Lutz Joel Ager
Snap, Crackle, and Pop , 5.10c Dave Hatchett Ed Collins
Speed Racer , 5.11c Jason Campbell Tom Herbert
Spuds McKenzie , 5.10d Dave Hatchett Kurt Smith
Sweet Pea , 5.10c Walt Shipley Werner Braun
Teenage Warning , 5.10d Don Reid Tucker Tech
Ten Days After , 5.8 John Barbella Eric Brand
Too Munge Fun , Tucker Tech John Harpole
Tour de Force , 5.12b Scott Burk Jeff Follett
Two "D" , 5.10c Don Reid Tucker Tech
Waterfall Route , Rick Sylvester Chauncey Parker
What's Your Fantasy , 5.11b Kurt Smith Stu Ritchie Dave Hatchett


1988
700 Club , 5.11c Mark Carpenter Scott Stowe
As It Is , 5.8 Walt Shipley
Astro Turf , 5.11 Tucker Tech Cade Lloyd Pete Takeda
Back to the Slammer , 5.10b Ken Ariza
Bad Company , 5.11d Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd Frank Lucido
Bad Seed , 5.9 Bill Russell Troy Johnson
Berlin Wall , 5.12b Pete Takeda Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd
Big Juan, The , 5.12b Jonny Woodward Darrelll Hensel
Bin, The , 5.10d Greg Murphy Bruce Morris
Boy and His Knob, A , 5.11c Mike Laden Tucker Tech
By Way of the Flake , 5.10c Rick Ecker Mark Russen
Cafeteria Lieback, The , 5.11a Brian Knight Jason Campbell
Candy-O , 5.11d Kurt Smith Dave Altman Tucker Tech
Cat's Squirrel Continuation , 5.12b Ron Skelton Greg Magruder
Center Route , Jonny Woodward
Central Scrutinizer , 5.11c Steve Grossman Jay Ladin
Cling Free , 5.11c Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd Rob Renolds
Color Purple , 5.11b Ken Ariza Pete Takeda
Colors , 5.12b Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd Pete Takeda Tucker Tech
Coup d'etat , 5.11d Ken Ariza
Cross-Train Crack , 5.10b Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd
Defoliation , 5.10 Tucker Tech John Harpole
Dirty Dancing , 5.11 Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Dirty Little Secrets , 5.9 Greg Murphy Bruce Morris
Distant Driver , 5.10d Tucker Tech Neil Sugarman
Dome Polishers , 5.9 Tucker Tech Steve Ortener
Dreamscape , 5.11d Scott Burk Tory Elbrader Jeff Follett
Drive by Shooting , 5.12a Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd Tucker Tech Chris Holmes
Eagle's Eyrie , 5.9 Ron Skelton Greg Magruder
Elephant Talk , 5.11b Kurt Smith Tucker Tech
Eraser Head , 5.10d Tucker Tech Mike Laden Ed Barry
Escape From Freedom , 5.11c Urmas Franosch Bruce Morris
False Prophets , 5.11c Tom Addison Kevin Sessler
Fast as a Shark , 5.11 Ed Collins Joan Collins Ken Ariza Tucker Tech
Fertile Attraction , 5.10d Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Follywood , 5.12c Dave Bengston Alan Roberts
For Your Eyes Only (Octopussy) , 5.9 Dan McDevitt Sue McDevitt
George's Secretary , 5.8 George Watson Jim Edmondson Kyle Edmondson Mike Forkash Nancy Beebe
Gidget Goes to Yosemite , 5.9 Ron Wright Bert Levy
Gold's Gym , Chris Snyder Kevin Fosburg
Good For Your Soul , 5.11a Jason Campbell Brian Knight
GRE , 5.11 Elliot Robinson Steve Annecone
Guillotine , 5.11d Ken Ariza Frank Lucido Peter Kern
Happy Ending, The , 5.11a Kevin Fosburg Jordy Morgan
Health Insurance , 5.10a Alan Roberts Joe Rousek
High Profile , 5.11a Joe Rousek Alan Roberts
Highlander , 5.12c Dave Schultz
Holy Diver , 5.11 Ed Collins Ken Ariza Tucker Tech
Horney/Johnson , 5.10 Jeff Hornibrook Troy Johnson
House of Pain , 5.12a Cade Lloyd
Hung Like a Hamster , 5.11c Pete Takeda Cade Lloyd Tucker Tech
Keeper of the Flame , 5.13a Kurt Smith Ken Ariza
Killing Yourself to Live , 5.12a Kurt Smith Tucker Tech
Kling Cobra , 5.10d Cade Lloyd Pete Takeda Tucker Tech
La Arista , 5.10c Chris Craig Mike Creel
Last in Line, The , 5.11b Chris Snyder Ken Ariza
Level Two , 5.10 Tucker Tech Neil Sugarman
Lost and Found , 5.12c Peter Croft Dave Schultz
Love Without Anger , 5.8 Steve Bosque Rich Albuschkat
Machine Gun , 5.13c Scott Cosgrove
Magic Carpet , 5.11d Ron Skelton Rick Cashner
Maltese Falcon , 5.11a Mike Laden Tucker Tech
Masquerade , 5.11d Charles Cole Rusty Reno
McPherson Struts , 5.9 Bob Gaines Yvonne McPherson
Mongoloid , 5.11c Cade Lloyd Chris Snyder Ken Ariza
Morality Check , 5.10 Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Never Say Dog , 5.11b Jonny Woodward John Sherman
Nine Lives Continuation , 5.10d Ron Skelton Greg Magruder
No Exit , 5.10d Joe Rousek Alan Roberts
Notably Knobular , 5.8 Dave Harden Dave Clay
Old A2 , Dana Brown Jeff Perrin
On Any Thursday , 5.10b Mark Spencer Kevin Wilcox
Oral Roberts , 5.12a Mark Chapman
Priceless Friends , 5.10a Mike McGrale Urmas Franosch Marlo Finney Marty Lewis
Psuedo Desperation , 5.7 Don Reid Jim Howard
QED (East of Eden) , 5.11a Jonny Woodward Killin Belz
R and R , 5.10a Alan Roberts Joe Rousek
Renus Wrinkle , 5.10a Eric Mayo Brian Bennett Bob Ost
Revenge of the Nerds , Dave Yerian Jack Roberts
Ribbon Candy , 5.11c Jonny Woodward Scott Cosgrove
Ride the Lightning , 5.12a John Collins Ed Collins Craig Delbrook
Road to Ruin , 5.12a Bob Gaines Jay Smith John Mallery
Rolo-Solo , Ken Ariza Cade Lloyd
SAT , 5.12a Elliot Robinson Peter Carrick
Savage Amusement , 5.11b Ed Collins Joan Collins Ken Ariza Tucker Tech
Scavanger , 5.11 Ken Ariza Pete Takeda Cade Lloyd
Scratch and Sniff , 5.12a Jonny Woodward
Sex Drive , Tucker Tech Dan McDevitt Sue McDevitt
Shining, The , 5.12c Scott Burk Chris Hash
Silent Freeway, The , 5.10c Brian Knight Linus Platt
Skateaway , 5.10a Greg Murphy
Teacher's Pet , Dave Yerian Cade Lloyd Ken Ariza Merry McGrath-Braun
Tennis Shoe Crack , 5.6 George Watson Jim Edmondson Kyle Edmondson
Thread of Life , 5.11a Clint Cummins Dan Nguyen
Timbuktu Left , 5.10 Franco Perlotto
Title Fight , 5.13 Hidetaka Suzuki
To Beer or Not to Be , 5.10 Tucker Tech Steve Ortener
Turkey Shoot , 5.9 Ken Yager Steve Bosque
Ultimate Emotion , 5.11c Elliot Robinson Peter Carrick
Unagi , 5.10c Clint Cummins Nancy Kerrebrock
Underclingon , 5.12a Ron Skelton Dan McDevitt
Uprising , 5.11b Kevin Fosburg Chris Snyder
Vegetal Extraction , 5.10 Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Via Sin Liquor , 5.9 Eric Kohl Alan Humphrey
White Room, The , 5.10 Sean Plunkett Walt Shipley
Woody Woodpecker , 5.9 Ron Skelton Greg Magruder


1989
Aces and Eights , 5.11b Ron Wright John Gregson
Agricultural Manuvers in the Dark , 5.8 Tucker Tech
Aqua Vulva (Route 66) , 5.10 Eric Kohl John Middendorf
Bananarama , 5.10a Rich Albuschkat Steve Bosque Murray Barnett
Barney Rubble , 5.10d Barney Ng Keith Kishiyama Dave Ryan
Bench Warmer , 5.10d Tucker Tech
Betty Comes Alive , 5.10a Dave Gardener Eric Gompper
Blame it on 800 , 5.10d Bill Russell
Bolt Adventures , 5.11a Tucker Tech
Brown-Eyed Girl , 5.9 Tucker Tech
Catholic Discipline , 5.12 Dimitri Barton
Cereal Killer , 5.10a Tucker Tech Don Reid
Chase, The , 5.9+ Dave Caunt Eric Mayo
Cheap Friction , 5.10 Tucker Tech Pete Takeda Kevin Fosburg
Cherry Picker , 5.11b Tucker Tech
Chester the Molester , 5.11b Tucker Tech
Cold, Rain and Snow , 5.10d Greg Murphy Elliott Robinson
Compass Rose , 5.10- Tucker Tech Lynn Wolfe
Conquest of the Stud Monkey , 5.10a Don Reid Jim Howard
Cosmic Charley , 5.11b Brian Knight Craig Delbrook Ken Ariza
Costa Rica , 5.9 Tucker Tech Steve Routhbun John Dossi
Cripps , 5.13b Pete Takeda
Danger Bird , 5.11a Walt Shipley Eric Kohl
Dante's Inferno , 5.9 Eric Kohl
Dead Souls , 5.11 Tucker Tech
Deception , 5.11 Pete Takeda Kevin Fosburg Tucker Tech
Deflowered , 5.11c Tucker Tech
Desperado , 5.11d Ron Skelton Dan McDevitt Mark Tuttle
Deucey's Elbow , 5.10d Walt Shipley Tucker Tech
Deucey's Nose , 5.11 Walt Shipley Tucker Tech
Dick Wrenching Classic , 5.10b Tucker Tech
Diminishing Standard , 5.12 Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Double Dragon , 5.12b Pete Takeda
Drunk Tank , 5.10d Tucker Tech
DUI , 5.11a Tucker Tech
Dust in the Wind , 5.10a Joel Ager Clint Cummins
Earth First , 5.10 Tucker Tech
Edge-u-cator , 5.11c Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Elephant Malt , 5.9 Tucker Tech Ken Ariza
Exploited , 5.11 Pete Takeda Cade Lloyd
Farm Alarm , 5.7
Feminine Protection , 5.10d Tucker Tech Allan Weidner
Finish Work , 5.10d Tucker Tech
Flary Tales , 5.10a Tucker Tech Mike Laden
Flashback , 5.8 Steve Bosque Rich Albuschkat
Flexible Flyer , 5.10d Tucker Tech
Fly By , 5.11a Dave Caunt Eric Mayo
Forbidden Pinnacle Continuation , Kevin Fosburg
Freaky Styley , 5.11d Cade Lloyd
Fully B.S. or a Tree , 5.11 Tucker Tech
Fun Terminal , 5.12a Dimitri Barton Ron Kauk
Genesis , 5.11b Doug Englekirk Eric Brand
Gerbil Launcher, The , 5.10d Tucker Tech
Goat for It , 5.10a Mark Carpenter
Golden Bear, The , 5.10b Bart O'Brien Richard Swayze
Golden Shower , 5.12a Pete Takeda Kevin Fosburg Tucker Tech
Goosebumps , 5.10c Mark Tuttle Ron Skelton
Gorrlla Grip , 5.11c Doug McDonald
Grateful Pinheads , 5.11a Joe Hedge Dave Hatchett
Hammerhead , 5.11b Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Hangover Heights , 5.10 Tucker Tech
Happy Trails , Tucker Tech
Happy's Favoite , 5.10b Tucker Tech
Head Banger , 5.11b Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Hidden, The , 5.12a Cade Lloyd
High Plains Dripper , 5.11 Eric Kohl Alan Humphrey
Historic Adventure, An , 5.9 Brian Knight Tom Borges Joel Hawk
Ho Chi Minh Trail , 5.10c Clint Cummins Joel Ager
Hole Train , Eric Kohl Walt Shipley
I Saw A Sleaze Revisit , Walt Shipley Eric Kohl
Jacob's Ladder , 5.10c Mark Carpenter Jeff Hornibrook
Jet Stream, The , 5.9 Sean Plunkett Bill Russell
John's Ring Job (Bachar's Ring Job) , 5.11d John Bachar Ron Kauk
Jomo , 5.11d Pete Takeda Kevin Fosburg Tucker Tech
Jug Monkey , 5.9 Mike Laden Tucker Tech
Jughead , 5.8 Tucker Tech
Just Scraping By , 5.8 Tucker Tech
Kali Yuga, The , 5.10 Walt Shipley John Middendorf
Kohl Duck , 5.11a Eric Kohl
Lagerhead , 5.11a Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Left Rabbit Ear Route , 5.11a Clint Cummins Joel Ager
Left Wing , 5.10b Tucker Tech
Liberace's Lost Lover , Tucker Tech
Log Jam , 5.11b Tucker Tech
Mean Streaks , 5.12b Kevin Fosburg Cade Lloyd
Meteorite , 5.12b Ken Ariza
Mid-Life Crisis , 5.10 Bruce Morris Dave Yerian
Monkey Hang , 5.11b Tucker Tech
Mothballed , 5.1 Tucker Tech
Mother of the Future , 5.11a Joel Auger Clint Cummins Nancy Kerrebrock
Motor Drive , 5.11a Kevin Fosburg Pete Takeda Tucker Tech
Mr. Clean , 5.10c Eric Gompper Dave Gardener
Mr. Rabbit , 5.10a Ray Sebastian Tim Felton
Mudflaps , 5.10d Tucker Tech Troy Johnson
No Love-Chump Sucker , 5.11c Cade Lloyd Jordy Morgan Ray Munoz
Not What it Seams , Mark Carpenter
Old 5.11 , 5.12 Kevin Fosburg
On the Wedge , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Peripheral Vision , 5.11c Jay Smith Karl McConachie
Pink Elephant , 5.9 Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Pole Position , 5.10a John Harpole
Promised Land, The , 5.10 Kevin Fosburg Jeff Hornibrook Troy Johnson
Psycho-Betty , 5.9 Eric Gompper Linda Gil-Martin
Pygmy Sex Circus , 5.10b Brian Knight Norman Boles
Raging Bull , 5.11b Eric Gompper Dave Gardener
Razor Train , Eric Kohl Walt Shipley
Reach for the Sky , 5.11 Jim Beyer
Rehab Doll , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Re-sole Fusion , 5.11d Dave Tucker
Ribald , 5.9 Tucker Tech
Roadside Destruction , Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Rocky Horror Show , 5.12a Ron Skelton Mark Tuttle
Roto Killer , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Rum Sodomy and the Lash , 5.10d Norman Boles
Sample the Dog , 5.12a Cade Lloyd Ray Munoz Pete Takeda
Satanic Mechanic , 5.12c Dimitri Barton Pete Takeda
Scrooged , 5.8 Tucker Tech
Sea Cow , 5.10 Tucker Tech Stephanie McCormack Neil Sugarman
Sea Hag , 5.10 Tucker Tech Pete Takeda
Season of the Bitch , 5.11d Cade Lloyd
Shadows , Jim Bridwell Cito Kirkpatrick Charlie Row Billy Westbay
Showtime , 5.11c Ron Skelton Mark Tuttle
Skid Roper , 5.10b Tucker Tech
Skid Row Messiah , 5.11a Walt Shipley Eric Kohl
Slamming Left , 5.11b Ray Olson Tucker Tech
Slamming Right , 5.10d Ray Olson Tucker Tech
Slap that Bitch , 5.10d Tucker Tech
Slut Wagon , Eric Kohl
Snake in the Grass , 5.10b Tucker Tech Steve Ortener
Sober Up , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Soloist, The , 5.10 Ron Skelton
Sorry Poopsie , 5.8 Don Reid Susan Reid
Sow Sow Sow , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Stay Lady Stay Back , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Stonequest , 5.8+ Ron Skelton Mark Tuttle
Stranger then Friction , Tucker Tech
Streamline , 5.12b Kevin Fosburg John Harpole
Stumped , 5.11 Ray Olson Tucker Tech
Sunshine Buttress , 5.10d Greg Murphy Elliot Robinson
Swan Song , Ron Skelton
Swillar Pillar , 5.10a Tucker Tech
Tammy Fae , 5.10c Mark Carpenter
Taste Buds , Eric Kohl Walt Shipley
Teacher's Pet , 5.12a Darrell Hensel Jonny Woodward
Teenage Abortion , 5.10 Tucker Tech
That'll Teach You (Teaching Little Fingers) , 5.12a Darrell Hensel Jonny Woodward
Token of Our Extreme , Tucker Tech Ray Olson
Too High , 5.6
Tooth Fairy , 5.10b Tucker Tech
Toxic Avenger , 5.11c Tucker Tech
Toxic Waste Dump , 5.8 Eric Kohl
Trailside Bandit , Tucker Tech
Trailside Slasher , Tucker Tech
Trial by Jury , 5.10a Brad Young Tom Kastner
Trivial Pursuit , 5.9 Tucker Tech
Vegemite , 5.10+ Elliot Robinson Greg Murphy
Vibrator , 5.11d Pete Takeda Tucker Tech
Way Homo Sperm Burpers from Fresno , 5.10c Eric Mayo Brian Bennett
West Side Story , 5.10b Tucker Tech Sue Harrington
Wheel of Torture , 5.7 Eric Kohl
Wicked Aretation , 5.10d Tucker Tech Mike Laden
Wicked Gravity , 5.12c Dimitri Barton Ron Kauk
Wide Thing , 5.10d Cade Lloyd Jeff Follett
William's Climb , 5.10c Jerry Anderson Sigrid Anderson Lynnea Anderson William Anderson Rob Kroeckel
Wings of Maybe , 5.12a Tim Bluhm Steve Jenevein
Winter of Our Discontent , 5.10 Tucker Tech Sue Harrington
Work Around the Skirt , 5.10c Tucker Tech
Wrong Address , 5.9 Tucker Tech
Yeast Infection , 5.10c Tucker Tech
Yellow Peril , 5.11b Pete Takeda Kevin Fosburg Tucker Tech
Yuk , 5.7 Tucker Tech
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
The list of people who climbed something first, only tells a fraction of the story. I think any historical rendering that hints of myth creation, as is being noted in discussions about the Valley Uprising film, would be disingenuous to the era.

The real story lies outside the historical documentation of fist ascents, I reckon, i.e. The myriad of people who aren't on Ed's list above. But lots of good reminders there, thanks.

Btw, on another note some people correlate 80's with spandex. No way, Spandex marks the beginning of the current era, more about the show. They came in around 1988, late 80's. The real "80's" are pre-spandex.

We wore white painter's pants (which were never white again).
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Sep 12, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
Maybe the 80's had so much happen that it's getting its own movie..?

"Pink Torpedo" - funny name..
goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Sep 12, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
Rob Slater and Randy Levitt pop to mind.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
yes, there's lots of folks I missed, like Leavitt and Slater. Did I put Steve Sutton on there? He was having a strong Yosemite revival, but more in the later 80's. Hugh Burton even showed up for a bit in the 80's. Charles Cole and Steve Grossman. Of course Bachar and Kauk--there's lots of legends leading to myths. But again, I reckon the real story is more nuanced than those that have been already told--I'm thinking of so many in my head, but a tellable "story" hasn't yet emerged; what's interesting to me is that this seems the same for a lot of other folks from whom the era was a highlight of intensity and passion.

But it's not about the bravado and the stars--in addition to the unnamed boulderers above (I remember them, but not their names!), guys like Walleye and Harpole have a strong place in the essence of the 80's, I reckon.

I think that the crowd at Joshua Tree, the place where many of us migrated for some of the winter months, has also a place in the 80's story.

ps--has anyone read Paul Pritchard's Deep Play? Sure, there's some myth creation there with tales of major climbs, but the mastery of that book is that he captured the core atmosphere of the British 80's--and not just the significant climbing events, which is almost the minor story.
bringmedeath

climber
la la land
Sep 12, 2014 - 03:14pm PT
Deep Play was a great read, I loved that book!

I always enjoyed hanging out with Grant and Bill. Both large personalities in what I remember of my brief time spent in the valley. Of course this was way after the 80s and they both were still there. Probably still are!?!?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 12, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
here is the FAist list alphabetical
I know it's not the whole story, but sometimes names help

Dan Abbot
David Abbot
Tom Addison
Joel Ager
Rich Albuschkat
Dave Altenburg
Dave Altman
Dave Anderson
Gary Anderson
Jay Anderson
Jerry Anderson
Lynnea Anderson
Sigrid Anderson
William Anderson
Steve Annecone
Ken Ariza
Nick Arms
Joel Auger
John Bachar
Brian Bailey
Chris Ballinger
John Barbella
Dale Bard
Phil Bard
Murray Barnett
Ed Barry
Alan Bartlett
Dimitri Barton
Perry Beckham
Nancy Beebe
Chris Beigh
Chris Bellizzi
Killin Belz
Dave Bengston
Brian Bennett
Tom Bepler
Dimitri Bevc
Jim Beyer
Ken Black
Franciso Blanco
Tim Bluhm
Norman Boles
Sue Bonovich
Mike Borelli
Tom Borges
Mike Borris
Steve Bosque
Eric Brand
Werner Braun
Jim Bridwell
Michael Brocado
L. Broomhead
Dana Brown
Bryan Burdo
Scott Burk
Andy Burnham
Tom Callahan
Jason Campbell
Jim Campbell
Chris Cantwell
Donald Cantwell
Mark Carpenter
Peter Carrick
Kim Carrigan
Rick Cashner
Kathy Cassidy
Dave Caunt
Mark Chapman
Phil Chapman
Peter Chesko
Greg Child
Chuck Clance
Dave Clay
Charles Cole
Scott Cole
Ed Collins
Joan Collins
John Collins
Mike Corbett
Tom Cosgriff
Scott Cosgrove
Chris Craig
Maria Cranor
Paul Crawford
Mike Creel
Bill Critchlow
Peter Croft
Clint Cummins
Drew Davol
Craig Delbrook
Vince DePasque
Doe DeRoss
Rik Derrick
Dan Dingle
Jack Dodalou
Tracy Dorton
John Dossi
Alex Dropshoff
Rick Ecker
Gary Edmondson
Jim Edmondson
Kyle Edmondson
Tory Elbrader
Jim Elias
Doug Englekirk
Chris Falkenstein
Tim Felton
Melanie Findling
Marlo Finney
Paul Fiola
Scott Flavelle
Penny Fogel
Jeff Follett
Mike Forkash
Kevin Fosburg
Charlie Fowler
Fritz Fox
Urmas Franosch
Marjan Freser
Bill Frey
Chris Friel
Bob Gaines
Carlos Gallego
Javier Gallego
Jose Luis Gallego
Miguel Angel Gallego
Dave Gardener
Jonell Geller
Steve Gerberding
Linda Gil-Martin
Tom Gilje
Will Gilmer
Mari Gingery
Eric Gompper
Randy Grandstaff
Mark Grant
John Gregson
Dave Griffith
Steve Grossman
Dave Harden
Dan Hare
John Harpole
Sue Harrington
Michael Harris
Chris Hash
Gene Hash
Dave Hatchett
Mike Hatchett
Joel Hawk
Ellie Hawkins
Floyd Hayes
Tom Hayes
Joe Hedge
Darrell Hensel
Tom Herbert
Mike Hernandez
Jim Hevner
Matt Hilden
Grant Hiskes
Brian Hoffmann
Chris Holmes
Chick Holtkamp
Jeff Hornibrook
Jim Howard
Alan Humphrey
Mark Ingdal
Bob Jasperson
Steve Jenevein
Richard Jensen
Troy Johnson
Max Jones
Murray Judge
Tom Kastner
Ron Kauk
Tim Kemple
Peter Kern
Nancy Kerrebrock
Cito Kirkpatrick
Keith Kishiyama
Augie Klein
Francek Knez
Francek Knez
Brian Knight
Eric Kohl
Rob Kroeckel
Mike Laden
Jay Ladin
Peter Lahrach
Dave Lane
Kevin Lathrop
Randy Leavitt
Mike Lechlinski
Bert Levy
Marty Lewis
Susan Lilly
Cade Lloyd
Kevin Lollard
John Long
Michael Lucero
Frank Lucido
Anders Lundahl
Jim Lutz
Doug MacDonald
Greg Magruder
John Mallery
Sal Mamusia
Y. Matsumoto
Bill Matthies
Jim May
Peter Mayfield
Ernie Maylon
Eric Mayo
Roy McClanahan
Karl McConachie
Stephanie McCormack
Dan McDevitt
Sue McDevitt
Doug McDonald
Mike McGrale
Merry McGrath-Braun
Rick McGregor
Yvonne McPherson
Nadim Melkonian
George Meyers
John Middendorf
Jerry Moffat
Rick Molinar
Steve Monks
Todd Montgomery
Sue Moore
Jordy Morgan
Bruce Morris
Ray Munoz
Greg Murphy
Jenny Naquin
Dave Neilson
Alan Nelson
Neal Newcomb
Barney Ng
Dan Nguyen
Tim Noonan
Bart O'Brien
Mike O'Donnell
Dennis Oakeshott
Sue Odom
Ray Olson
Rob Oravetz
Steve Ortener
Bob Ost
Lidija Painkiher
Chauncey Parker
Robert Parker
Dan Parks
Mike Paul
Chris Peisker
Franco Perlotto
Jeff Perrin
Heidi Pesterfield
Linus Platt
Becky Plourd
Sean Plunkett
Bill Price
Lee Price
John Pruett
Gary Rabbe
Duane Raleigh
Alfred Randall
Pat Ranstrom
Marshall Ravenscroft
Earl Redfern
Don Reid
Susan Reid
Rusty Reno
Rob Renolds
Brent Reynolds
Stu Ritchie
Alan Roberts
Jack Roberts
Elliot Robinson
Rob Robinson
Rob Rohn
Joe Rousek
Steve Routhbun
Charlie Row
Lance Rowlands
Bill Russell
Randy Russell
Mark Russen
Dave Ryan
Gwen Schneider
Steve Schneider
Dave Schultz
Mike Sciacca
Doug Scott
Ray Sebastian
Eva Selim
Billy Serniuk
Charleen Serniuk
Dave Sessions
Kevin Sessler
Rob Settlemeyer
Raph Shaffer
John Sherman
Walt Shipley
Bob Shonerd
Tom Shores
Jim Siler
Igor Skamperle
Ron Skelton
Todd Skinner
Rob Slater
Jay Smith
Jeff Smith
Kurt Smith
Mark Smith
Trent Smith
Chris Snyder
Greg Sonagere
Karl Sonnberger
Mark Spencer
Shirley Spencer
Scott Stowe
Stretch
Neil Sugarman
Hidetaka Suzuki
Al Swanson
Richard Swayze
Rick Sylvester
Pete Takeda
Paul Teare
Tucker Tech
Tommy Thompson
Dave Tucker
Tom Tumiano
John Tuttle
Mark Tuttle
Paul Van Betten
Wallace
Russ Walling
Dave Walters
George Watson
Allan Weidner
Jack Wenzel
Billy Westbay
Roger Whitehead
Geoff Wiegand
Kevin Wilcox
Bob Williams
Merrill Wilson
Lynn Wolfe
Jonny Woodward
Scott Woolums
Kevin Worrall
Ron Wright
John Yablonski
Ken Yager
Tony Yaniro
Dave Yerian
Brad Young
Brian Young
Gary Zaccor
Eric Zschiesche
Larry Zulim
E Robinson

climber
Salinas, CA
Sep 12, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
So much of the Yosemite 80's was colored by the tensions between the traditions of wilderness, wildness (ground-up, clean climbing, risk), raucousness, breaking into new standards (rap bolting, rehearsal), commercialization (competitions, gyms, sponsorship) and popularization. All that dissonance that came with the transitionary nature of the time were in the essence of our generation...outside climbing we were in the middle of the Reagan-Bush era that brought a political swing to the right...Macs and PCs were taking root...etc. And it was all pretty wild. There were some pretty strong currents that shaped our generation as we struggled with a whole bunch of change. There was an adventure, argument beer and joint for all in the mix.

Looking at where we are now it always reminds me that change is constant and the tensions timeless. I find myself questioning where we ended up...alas. But its all good and what better place to be living through the currents of change from yesterday and today than Yosemite...the heart of California.
steve s

Trad climber
eldo
Sep 12, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
Deuce, add Terry Ayers to that list. Banny Root( aka Jim May) was also quite the character. And let's not forget Lepton Man ( aka Chris Friel ) . The 80's were full of classic characters who enhanced the scene. Peace and Fuk-nes , Steve Sangdahl
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 12, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
How come Ellie Hawkins is on the list but not Bruce?
Climbnrok

Trad climber
LA
Sep 12, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
Here is the data from Ed's list with the Climber name and number of FAs in the 80s sorted by total FAs. Sorry if it got mangled somewhere. Ed, that format was really hard to parse :(

I'll post the full output to pastebin as well.
http://pastebin.com/dt8Xh1za

Format = "Climber","# of FAs in the 80s"


Tucker Tech,132
Ken Ariza,45
Don Reid,41
Dimitri Barton,35
Walt Shipley,35
Pete Takeda,27
Rick Cashner,26
Werner Braun,24
Cade Lloyd,24
Brian Bennett,23
Chris Cantwell,22
Bruce Morris,21
Kurt Smith,20
John Bachar,18
Eric Kohl,18
Grant Hiskes,16
Ron Skelton,16
Dave Schultz,15
Steve Bosque,15
John Middendorf,15
Kevin Fosburg,15
Dave Hatchett,14
Scott Burk,12
Charles Cole,12
Scott Cosgrove,12
Jonny Woodward,12
Mark Carpenter,12
Ron Kauk,11
Norman Boles,11
Bill Russell,10
Jay Smith,10
Mike Corbett,10
Michael Forkash,10
Ray Olson,10
Alan Roberts,9
Bill Price,9
Steve Schneider,9
John Tuttle,9
Clint Cummins,9
Alan Bartlett,8
Eric Mayo,8
John Barbella,8
Eric Brand,8
Dan McDevitt,8
Bob Ost,8
Ed Barry,7
Dave Caunt,7
Stu Ritchie,7
Joe Hedge,7
Ken Yager,7
Brian Knight,7
Ed Collins,7
Greg Murphy,7
Troy Johnson,7
Larry Zulim,6
Doug McDonald,6
Sigrid Anderson,6
Jerry Anderson,6
Elliot Robinson,6
John Harpole,6
Mike Laden,6
Tony Yaniro,5
Mark Grant,5
Chick Holtkamp,5
Greg Child,5
Dave Yerian,5
Marshall Ravenscroft,5
Tim Kemple,5
Steve Gerberding,5
Rob Oravetz,5
Urmas Franosch,5
Sean Plunkett,5
Steve Grossman,5
Rusty Reno,5
George Watson,5
Eric Gompper,5
Andy Burnham,5
Tracy Dorton,5
Chris Snyder,5
Jason Campbell,5
Mark Tuttle,5
Dale Bard,4
Randy Leavitt,4
Scott Cole,4
Francek Knez,4
Rich Albuschkat,4
Jim Elias,4
Bob Gaines,4
Mike Hatchett,4
Jeff Hornibrook,4
Chris Hash,4
Joel Ager,4
Greg Magruder,4
Joe Rousek,4
Eric Zschiesche,3
Peter Mayfield,3
Karl McConachie,3
Dan Dingle,3
Eric Zschieche,3
Mike Hernandez,3
Peter Croft,3
Jim Bridwell,3
Peter Chesko,3
Lidija Painkiher,3
Sue Harrington,3
Mark Spencer,3
Dave Griffith,3
Vince DePasque,3
Al Swanson,3
Lynnea Anderson,3
Sue Bonovich,3
Mark Chapman,3
Charlie Fowler,3
Nancy Kerrebrock,3
Jeff Follett,3
Neil Sugarman,3
Steve Ortener,3
Dave Gardener,3
Augie Klein,2
Bob Williams,2
Randy Grandstaff,2
Kim Carrigan,2
Brad Young,2
Dana Brown,2
Mike Borelli,2
Alan Nelson,2
John Yablonski,2
Chris Friel,2
Rick McGregor,2
Mike Forkash,2
Charlie Row,2
Dan Hare,2
Murray Barnett,2
Doug Scott,2
Marjan Freser,2
Ken Black,2
Paul Fiola,2
Pat Ranstrom,2
John Mallery,2
Paul Crawford,2
Earl Redfern,2
Tom Bepler,2
Rob Slater,2
Steve Annecone,2
Ray Sebastian,2
Tim Felton,2
Dimitri Bevc,2
Shirley Spencer,2
Doe DeRoss,2
Nick Arms,2
Tim Noonan,2
Neal Newcomb,2
Jose Luis,2
Gallego Javier,2
John Sherman,2
Dave Bengston,2
Rob Robinson,2
Roy McClanahan,2
Jim Beyer,2
Phil Chapman,2
Jim Campbell,2
William Anderson,2
Linus Platt,2
Grank Hiskes,2
Gene Hash,2
Dave Neilson,2
Dave Altman,2
Rick Sylvester,2
Kevin Worrall,2
Dan Nguyen,2
Tom Herbert,2
Frank Lucido,2
Joan Collins,2
Sue McDevitt,2
Jim Edmondson,2
Kyle Edmondson,2
Ron Wright,2
Jordy Morgan,2
Jim Howard,2
Craig Delbrook,2
Peter Carrick,2
Alan Humphrey,2
Ray Munoz,2
Darrell Hensel,2
Steve Monks,1
L. Broomhead,1
John Long,1
Perry Beckham,1
Scott Flavelle,1
Dave Lane,1
Mike Borris,1
Billy Serniuk,1
Charleen Serniuk,1
Jack Dodalou,1
Jim Hevner,1
Y. Matsumoto,1
Gary Zaccor,1
Dave Anderson,1
Randy Russell,1
Bob Jasperson,1
Max Jones,1
Michael Lucero,1
Robert Parker,1
Becky Plourd,1
Sue Moore,1
Anders Lundahl,1
Eva Selim,1
Chris Ballinger,1
Mark Ingdal,1
Tom Gilje,1
Rob Rohn,1
Peter Lahrach,1
Donald Cantwell,1
Jeff Smith,1
Kevin Lathrop,1
Michael Brocado,1
Dennis Oakeshott,1
Bill Critchlow,1
Chris Bellizzi,1
Rik Derrick,1
Kathy Cassidy,1
Mike Lechlinski,1
Mari Gingery,1
Miguel Angel,1
Gallego Jose,1
Luis Gallego,1
Javier Gallego,1
Carlos Gallego,1
Dave Sessions,1
Jim Siler,1
Greg Sonagere,1
Gary Edmondson,1
Jim May,1
Richard Jensen,1
Mark Smith,1
Tom Cosgriff,1
Duane Raleigh,1
Ernie Maylon,1
Igor Skamperle,1
Gary Anderson,1
Mike O'Donnell,1
Will Gilmer,1
Jay Anderson,1
Phil Bard,1
Kevin Lollard,1
Murray Judge,1
Roger Whitehead,1
Tom Callahan,1
Mike Paul,1
Franciso Blanco,1
Bill Frey,1
Paul Teare,1
Scott Woolums,1
Dave Altenburg,1
Chuck Clance,1
Bob Shonerd,1
Nadim Melkonian,1
Jerry Moffat,1
Geoff Wiegand,1
Tom Hayes,1
Russ Walling,1
Ellie Hawkins,1
Dan Abbot,1
David Abbot,1
Maria Cranor,1
Lance Rowlands,1
Chris Peisker,1
Fritz Fox,1
Jonell Geller,1
Chris Beigh,1
Mike Sciacca,1
Todd Skinner,1
Matt Hilden,1
Jack Wenzel,1
Alfred Randall,1
Bryan Burdo,1
Dan Parks,1
Raph Shaffer,1
Tommy Thompson,1
Floyd Hayes,1
Dave Walters,1
Todd Montgomery,1
Trent Smith,1
Chris Falkenstein,1
George Meyers,1
Merrill Wilson,1
Jenny Naquin,1
Michael Harris,1
Bill Matthies,1
Tom Tumiano,1
Brent Reynolds,1
Tom Shores,1
Susan Lilly,1
Gary Rabbe,1
Gwen Schneider,1
Brian Hoffmann,1
John Pruett,1
Brian Bailey,1
Rob Settlemeyer,1
Drew Davol,1
Sue Odom,1
Heidi Pesterfield,1
Dimiti Barton,1
Lee Price,1
Doug MacDonald,1
Brian Young,1
Melanie Findling,1
Paul Van,1
Betten Sal,1
Penny Fogel,1
Alex Dropshoff,1
Dave Hatchet,1
Rick Molinar,1
Karl Sonnberger,1
Jim Lutz,1
Chauncey Parker,1
Scott Stowe,1
Darrelll Hensel,1
Rick Ecker,1
Mark Russen,1
Jay Ladin,1
Rob Renolds,1
Tory Elbrader,1
Chris Holmes,1
Tom Addison,1
Kevin Sessler,1
Nancy Beebe,1
Bert Levy,1
Peter Kern,1
Chris Craig,1
Mike Creel,1
Yvonne McPherson,1
Dave Harden,1
Dave Clay,1
Jeff Perrin,1
Kevin Wilcox,1
Mike McGrale,1
Marlo Finney,1
Marty Lewis,1
Killin Belz,1
Jack Roberts,1
John Collins,1
Merry McGrath-Braun,1
Franco Perlotto,1
Hidetaka Suzuki,1
John Gregson,1
Barney Ng,1
Keith Kishiyama,1
Dave Ryan,1
Elliott Robinson,1
Lynn Wolfe,1
Steve Routhbun,1
John Dossi,1
Allan Weidner,1
Doug Englekirk,1
Bart O'Brien,1
Richard Swayze,1
Tom Borges,1
Joel Hawk,1
Joel Auger,1
Linda Gil-Martin,1
Dave Tucker,1
Stephanie McCormack,1
Cito Kirkpatrick,1
Billy Westbay,1
Susan Reid,1
Tom Kastner,1
Rob Kroeckel,1
Tim Bluhm,1
Steve Jenevein,1
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Sep 12, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
Banny Root's name was not Banny Root?

Some of those folks on John's list are hanging around the parking store at Tmds many mornings. Stories are told pretty regularly.
WBraun

climber
Sep 12, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
LOL Klaus

You got way more for sure but that list is for the 80's only I think?

Anyways lol Tuckers 132

He asked me once to go on one of those and it's a 50 foot pile of sh!t that goes nowhere.

I start laughing at what he wants to climb.

He'll do anything.

Too funny ......
SicMic

climber
across the street from Marshall
Sep 12, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
I always thought the return of Layton Kor to the Valley in 1988 to climb El Cap was pretty cool.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Sep 12, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
I always thought Mikey Waugh was one that flew under the radar and was just as talented or more so than many of his peers and he still cranks hard today. Maybe he didn't do a ton in the Valley but he still deserves a shout out.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
Funny things about the 80's that the change was not coming from big three, Yosemite, Boulder or the Gunks, but from little backwater areas like Smith Rock and Shelf Rd to name a few.

Infighting and down right hatred prevails in the big three.

Still the Valley had many great climbers and great routes in the 80's that seem to get overshadowed by the 70's.

Just my opinion. :-)
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
He asked me once to go on one of those and it's a 50 foot pile of sh!t that goes nowhere.

I start laughing at what he wants to climb.

He'll do anything.

Too funny ......

Some things don't change.

He will climb anything.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
When I think of that time, I think of all the colourful, high energy personalities. To name a few:
Don Reid
Grant Hiskes
Russ Walling
John Yablonski
Mike Lechlinksi
Al Swanson
Steve Schneider
Mike Lechlinski
Rick Cashner
Mike Corbett
Steve Bosque
Tory Johnson
Dan McDivett
Tracy Dorton
Scott Cosgrove
Kurtz Smith
Jo Whitford
Bill Russell
Rick Albushcat
Michael J Paul
Roland Arsons
Steve Gerberding
Dean Fidelman (almost unique in his notion to take some pictures)
Dave Schultz
Werner Braun

Don't forget Mark Smith and Richard Jensen.
WBraun

climber
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:10pm PT
but from little backwater areas like Smith Rock and Shelf Rd to name a few.


Yeah .....

I was a Smith Rocks and watch Alan Watts rap down and drill a plumb line of bolts straight down that Monkey face for a new route.

Then they tried to climb it and a lot of those bolts had to be moved to where they really need to be placed.

Holes everywhere.

I said is this hows its done?

Yes this how we do it .... lol

Holy sh!t ...... hahaha
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
Warbler wrote: Not just your basic new route, but something that opens new doors

Or minds.


Jim...I remember the article. Sadly a lot of great Valley climbers during the 80's didn't receive their just due. Change comes hard for some, especially those entrench in a certain dogma.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 07:53pm PT
Infighting and down right hatred prevails in the big three.


That to me and most everyone I know is one of the biggest misconceptions of the 80's. Though it did feature in the late 80's (classic punch outs in the parking lot), it was really a minor part of a much longer story. Maybe the era Bob talks about started with the Smoot article with the misrepresentation of Valley locals doing nothing (I recall that article came out right around a time when guys like Coz were putting up 1000 foot 5.12r/x ground up onsight, and we all found it amusing). But it still took a few years before that attitude soured the local scene. That latter part of the 80's was really the start of the "modern" era.

Lots of good names added--who could forget guys like Al Dude and Banny Root!?

<Edit>. I can't really recall the coz route--- something over on East Buttress perhaps. I do recall climbing Beggar's Butress with Coz--we swung leads and cruised the thing--and I could also see that coz was developing a delicate and powerful style suited to climbing bold routes, and I recall that he did some other impressive climbs that he said were way harder than Beggars--but I don't remember trades or names or locales.

It feels strange to me that the question today is often what was 'done' in the 80's--because it's almost as if there was some other goal we were pursuing.
hossjulia

Trad climber
Carson City, NV
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
Ron Wright is probably Ron White of Boulder.
I remember a lot a climbing literature from the 80's. Books & mags. Seems to me many top climbers were scrambling for sponsorships and any way to it make money off climbing as they could. I thought climbing as a profession caught hold in the 80's.
My best memories of climbing in general were formed during that decade.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 12, 2014 - 07:58pm PT
I think Alan Watts and Todd Skinner might have a different opinion about Valley in the 80's. But they were just outsiders. :-)

What amaze me a little about the 80's was the amount of great Brits climbing at a very high standards.

deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
Ah yes, sponsorship. That changed everything. The Las Vegas trade shows play a part in this story. How about when Dick Cilley jumped up on stage with Ray Charles and doing a wild boogie even as three security guards were carting him off?

But again, that was late 80's, and tensions were rising. Reminds me of a more recent visit to an Ohio high school football game. The worst sports were the spectators, parents who actually were booing the winning team after the game.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Sep 12, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
Deuce,

Good stuff.
I spent a lot of time in The Valley through the early to mid eighties and it was a great place at a great time.
The Stonemasters were still around but so were a lot of other interesting personalities.
It was easy to feel like you were tapped into the history of the place and that mattered to most of us.
What we climbed was important but it seemed to be more about the adventure than a numbers game.
For the record, Hockey Night in Canada does not merit note as an EL Cap FA.
I cringe every time I see it in print.
I contributed nothing to Valley climbing in the eighties except pin scars, back off slings and a few belay bolts.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
Chief, glad the link the nom de with the person. Hockey Night is a brilliant addition. Me and Alex L. climbed it on our 3-bivy ascent of Hockalito. But I reckon you'd also have some tales of your season that paints a unique atmosphere of that era, perhaps?
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Deuce,

The Hockey Dawn ascent was memorable for the three days of storms we climbed through and the massive earthquake on the last day.

How about Eric Ziesche, Larry Zulum, Doug McDonald (aka Rudy)?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 12, 2014 - 09:51pm PT
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing."
Avery

climber
NZ
Sep 12, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
What about Rick Lovelace?
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 13, 2014 - 12:28am PT
Yup,
and Tommy t, the Hatchett bros, D Griff, Snyder, Curtis Sykes, Marky, Ed and JC Collins, little Glen....
Too many to name. Damn good years.

Ed H, here's a few corrections for your list.
I climbed Killer Pillar center route, aka Wicked Gravity (dumb name:-) on TR before anyone touched the damn thing. Real history, not his story.

Cats Squirrel continuation was equipped and led first by Mike Hatchett. Absolutely not Ron Skelton.

Holy Diver was led first by Pete Takeda (pitch 1) and myself, (pitch 2) not Ed Collins. This line could be a quality route to the rim if somebody ever decides to kick tires on it.


Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Sep 13, 2014 - 12:57am PT
The Hockey Dawn ascent was memorable for the three days of storms we climbed through and the massive earthquake on the last day.

Perry- This sounds like a tale worth elaborating on!!
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:11am PT
Maybe Ken's head injury has fogged his memory and perhaps led to some anger issues?

Ed H, here's a few corrections for your list.
"I climbed Killer Pillar center route, aka Wicked Gravity (dumb f*#king name) on TR before anyone touched the damn thing. Real history, not his story."

Laughable!!....and pretty over the top delusional.What correction are you demanding again??
The real history is you were not involved in the FA, get over it Ken.


Sorry you don't like the name...not an AKA but indeed the actual name of that climb, if you had done the FA then you could have named it... you didn't.... It's a song written by Jim Carrol.


Also John M. said Coz was doing the FA of Southern Belle when the Valley Syndrome article was written and published.....nope, that climb was done many years later. Sad John believes this is about ego.....if it was for me you'd have seen photos of me on those Killer Pillar climbs 25 years ago.
I guess John has a problem with the actual history and wants to keep it as selective as possible?
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:18am PT
A great decade! I was very much around then, did a few climbs, 3 big wall FA's, a bit of ice climbing...but I had a job (chief guide YMS) and was raising kids, so wasn't as much of a Camp 4 or parking lot fixture, guess I don't get to be in "the cool club".

Peter
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:21am PT
Meaty

What name did you give that steep finger crack climb at Elephants graveyard?

I tried to do the second ascent and fell at the top because there was still gravel in the flared crack opening there.

I slipped out.

Never knew the rating either?
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:27am PT
Hi Werner.
I named it Crackaholic......it's listed as Digital Delight, Ken Ariza named it I guess. I had batted around a few other names as well.
It was not so delightful for me as on one attempt I fell leaving only my middle finger on my right hand in the crack resulting in a very nasty avulsion fracture.

I guess it's 12b, I really suck with trying to rate climbs.
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:29am PT
I thought it was bad ass good climb 5 stars.

What's it rated?

Now I remember your injury on that thing.

edit: 512b ... OK thanks man.
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:31am PT
Someone called it 12c..I don't think so.
my finger has never recovered.
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:35am PT
I thought the top where it opens up was the crux.

All I got there was a handful of gravel instead of rock and that was the end of that lol .....
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:38am PT
There was a huge loose flake inside that groove//flair thing and I cleaned it out leaving the gravel behind. I didn't do a very good job cleaning that thing, no help from me!!

Yes, the crux is getting up into that flare.
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:41am PT
No big deal at all, it's a cool pitch.

Top rated stars, and no crowds there ever.

A Yosemite classic .......
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:45am PT
Pretty cool climb...albeit very short.
Nice cool location hidden away down there.
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:55am PT
That thing is gone now because it's 2014 now ....?

:-)
Johannsolo

climber
Soul Cal
Sep 13, 2014 - 08:04am PT
Skip Guerin!
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 13, 2014 - 09:38am PT
Dimitri,
I couldn't care less about any list. The facts are the facts, plain and simple. Choose to ignore them if you'd like. I put the first bolts on top of that thing, I climbed the center route first (with my lack of skills). When I returned to suss the bolting, I was unable to re climb it. I broke two separate key holds while trying to do so. The day I anchored and climbed the route, I did so with Kurt Smith not Joe. I never once went up there with Joe, so if he said differently, which I doubt he did, he's dead wrong.
Two days later I went to Smith Rocks for a week and before I returned, all three routes on the wall were done. Remember that? I found out from Darius Azin whom you had called in Oregon to inform me.

As for Pete, he also wrote in an article around that time that stated that I had indeed found, and Tr'd, the center route on the Killer Pillar. Remember that? You in turn bad mouthed him and all but threatened to beat him up for it.

Finally, I didn't name that gorgeous finger crack that you bagged at the Boneyard, you did. You named it Digital Delight. I can't help it if you changed the name years later. I remember that day clearly. Joe and I both climbed that route first try after you did it (with my lack of skills of course). Joe badly wanted a burn at first ascent after you fell off, but you wouldn't let him, and you did it next try. BTW, Troy Johnson found that thing, not you. How's that for a crystal clear memory?
So, again ignore the facts if you want but this is the real history, not his story. Little Guy.

Edited: Dimitri, one of your prior posts directed at me has been completely changed, and partially deleted. You were yelling about how TR ascents are invalid, and they should never make any historical lists, and how Pete Takeda and I are both liars that want TR lists created exclusively for us {joke}, and Joe was my original partner on the KP, and he said I didn't do it, and I lacked the skills to do it, and I am a little guy with a head injured, flawed memory, and you have zero respect for Deucey, and on and on. Why the re-write? Quit being a hack, stand by your words.
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 09:49am PT
Wrong again...


"Two days later I went to Smith Rocks for a week and before I returned, all three routes on the wall were done."

That is of course a flat out lie!!

Wrong once again, The FA of those climbs were not done in a two week period and one of them was done many months later. I made no such call to Darius to inform you because you had nothing to do with the FA of any of those routes,I called Darius to talk to him. I do remember Darius and many others from Bend at the time mocking you and Kurt and telling me what arrogant chumps you were and how both of you were all talk, no big surprise there...eh?



"As for Pete, he also wrote in an article around that time that I had indeed found and Tr'd the center route on the Killer Pillar. Remember that? You in turn bad mouthed him and all but threatened to beat him up for it."

Wrong again. nothing of the kind was ever written in the mags.....what I was upset with Pete for was claiming he had previously TR'd Satanic Mechanic when he had not, I established that pitch all the way to the existing anchors of the climb to the left.....Pete couldn't do the crux on a tr but wrote in the mags that he had....it's called a flat out lie.. I didn't threaten him....but keep squirming and lying!!
What's with the lame category you and Pete wanted to create ..."previously top roped"....pretty darn hollow and ridiculous.....but from you and Pete it's no surprise.
Keep squirming Ken....
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 13, 2014 - 09:58am PT
speaking of the 4 seasons...just like old times...hey is that a potato up your tailpipe?
Meaty

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:18am PT
Wade, maybe you still think the multiple incidents of vandalism regarding my vehicle in Yosemite is funny....me?...not so much.
Yeah, sure you aren't mocking me.....have you ever had your vehicle vandalized by fellow climbers in Yosemite? No? Maybe you don't know how many times my vehicle was vandalized?
And that duece chump thinks this is about ego??
What a lost soulless schmuck to make that hollow accusation.
But John has indeed advocated for chopping my climbs in the valley....no bias there!!

These are in fact some of the things I had to deal with.....John calls it nitpicking, pretty shallow indeed. Pretty easy to just shrug off vandalism when you're not a victim of it.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:38am PT
Oh f*#k,
What a joke. Rant all you want Dimitri. I'm not here to bark back and forth with you. You can try to convince people about what you'd like them to believe happened, but that doesn't change what actually did.
I've been down to the Killer Pillar three times. Originally with Kurt, the day I was the first person on planet earth to climb the thing. One time with Tucker, we escaped the ledge via his hair fest FA of Elephant Malt. And once with Frank Lucido. Again, never once with Joe Hedge, and I don't believe he told you I had. Joe? Bring it.

No call to Darius eh? flat out lie? He is exactly who I first heard it from. I was in Smith Rocks that week and he said you had called him and told him that you had just bolted and led the Center route in particular. I was not there with Kurt either, I have never been to Smith Rocks with Kurt. I was there with Pete and Snyd, and find I it hysterically ironic that you should call anyone an arrogant chump. Look in the mirror bud.

BTW, ever see the bolts on the first 35' of 5.11 climbing on the Killer Pillar below the ledge? How do you think they got there? What about the bolts on top? Do you even remember telling me that I put them in the wrong spot. Come on Dimitri.

I guess what's always gotten to me about this over the years, more than anything else, and it has.... is that you've always denied that we were up there before you, let alone that I climbed the thing first. So either you're the f*#king liar, or your massive ego has gotten so out of control that you've actually become delusional.

Also, I heard from Clint that you told him you did FFA of Cats Squirrel Continuation. As you like to say..... WRONG! Remember that episode? I sure as hell do. Care to crack that egg?

Edited: Another deleted response from Dimitri of course... It's all damage control now. Large clue, quit re-writing and deleting your posts. I have screenshots of all your originals. If you think you're capable, I'd like to have an honest, intelligent discussion about this. Email me.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:44am PT
Yippee! ST back on track!

Susan
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:46am PT
This thread really captures the ambiance of the eighties, like Walleye said.

Hey Kenny :-)

We should all get together in the cafe and talk sh#t like the old days.

You me meaty warbler walleye swilliman etc.

Then we can go outside afterwards and beat each other up.

It will be grand!!! :-)

Walleye most likely will win and throw us all into the dumpster .....

:-)


Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:47am PT
Well, the trend here will help mitigate maudlin nostalgia for the eighties.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:58am PT
I climbed the Center route before you did Dimitri. TR yes. climbed it yes. Sorry.
Kurt can tell you that because he held the rope and witnessed it. Plain and simple.

You did not climb Cats Squirrel Continuation first. Yo yo, TR, or otherwise. Sorry. Mike Hatchett did, and you know it.

Werner! Lol....love to kick it again one day man.

Edited: This last post of mine is in response to yet another deleted tirade two posts back, authored of course by Meaty the back peddler, in which he again calls me a liar, and where he claims to have yo yo'd Cats Squirrel Continuation first. In fact, all of his posts on this thread have been either changed, or deleted, or both, in order to slant and sculpt his self centered arguments the way he best sees fit. You'll never change Meat. Again though, I saved screen shots of all your original posts.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 13, 2014 - 11:11am PT
Duecy, what have you done! Stirred up a hornet's nest in less than 70 posts.

The time for a making a movie about the 80s might be, say, in another ten years, 2024? Or 2034?

At some point the old arguments become water under the bridge and there's some kind of consensus about what the era meant. The movie can't really be made until that happens, and yet has to be made while the players are still around.

Watched the Valley Uprising last night. The boys did good. The movie's great. Maybe, for me, a bit too heavy, at the end, on slack-lining and BASE and Chongo, but it's their bat and ball and I can see how their vision and narrative went that direction.
OR

Trad climber
Sep 13, 2014 - 11:14am PT
Loving this thread.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 13, 2014 - 11:18am PT
Wade, maybe you still think the multiple incidents of vandalism regarding my vehicle in Yosemite is funny....me?...not so much.



never had an opinion about it one way or another. just helping you guys rewrite history. did the rangers get prints off that baker?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 13, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
the history aspect is very interesting, and it highlights the very informal manner that these matters are reported and recorded.

My list is from the last Reid guide plus some additional information from the journals: Climbing, Mountain, and the AAJ. Some names have been corrected for spelling (thanks for all that) but the attribution of who climbed what "first" is a work in progress.

I am not in a position to make any definitive decision, of course, and count on the community... but ultimately the way this sort of thing gets carried on is through the testimony of people who were involved at the time. And if they can't decide, there really won't be a way to make that definitive statement.

So given we can't resolve these issues "objectively," the complex issue of multiple claims on a route should probably be recognized.

While this is a bit of a diversion from what deuce4 had in mind, it does shine a light on these controversies which I believe are a very important part of 1980s Valley climbing.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
Wow. I was just thinking of more unsung heroes like Hideataka Suzuki and a few others, which reminded me more of the atmosphere I lived in and perhaps have selectively chosen to recall- a real climbing community. And how from time to time these days, people get in touch with me--Europeans, or more recently ya old acquaintance from Japan --who tell me how I helped them out with some gear or info back in the day, and perhaps remind me of a few forgotten climbs we did together.

But then I see this nitpicky age-old battle taking over the thread. Maybe Bob DA is right. But somehow I don't recall it that way.

There was something else, something more, something actually significant (and not necessarily in a 'climbing accomplishment' context) about that era than these recent posts suggest....or was there?

Edit:looks like someone deleted a bunch of posts....
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 13, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
Route theft, fisticuffs, men in tights, all In the narrow confines of the gulch. Sounds like a good decade to miss.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 13, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
The 80's was the beginning of climbers getting into BASE.

Leaviitt, Slater, Cosgriff, and a few others had dabbled in it, but until I spent most of 1986 jumping the snot out of the valley, it hadn't taken off in a big way among climbers. Will Oxx would have done it, but he hadn't gotten out of the military.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 13, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
Deuce,
I brought the subject of the Killer Pillar up, which led to the white noise. For that I apologize.

Dimitri, you did the FA of Wicked Gravity fair and square. How's that? Where my problem lies is when you start up with personal attacks. Calling me a liar and saying I did not climb something that I 100% did. That just plain sucks.

Sumner, any missed decade of climbing is a bummer, Oh, and for the record, never much cared for tights.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
Re; Dimitri and Ken: I guess I can see how it would irk--I did a FA of a route on Devil's Tower--with a woman who was a ranger at the time, and thought it had been recorded. Then I saw it credited to others who climbed it a few years later and renamed "A Bridge Too Far". But in the larger scheme of things, what climbing has provided to the soul and character--the "credit" for the climb seems a bit less important, no?

I'm starting to see my journey of climbing as a path, which was full of pitfalls on the sides of the path, the ego draws us to the pitfalls. Sometimes I fell victim to the pitfalls, but mostly I found a nice path that led me to something that's helped me on the larger path of life. This thread reminds me of that time long ago--the good and the not-so-good; thanks to all for that.

One thing I recall for sure: in Werner's maroon LeMans the path was always straight ahead!
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 13, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
Well said.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Sep 13, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Think Mid-Life Crisis on the Royal Arches Apron has to be spring (March-April) of 1988, just before Escape from Freedom on Mt Watkins. Personnel: Me, Dave Yerian, Merry MacGrath (later Braun), Mike Hernandez, and for the last pitch, Urmas Franosch. A partner-per-pitch kinda climb.

But as one wag suggested above, a FA list doesn't tell half the story of the 1980s, because different strong personalities put their stamp on the era in their own characteristic ways.
nah000

climber
canuckistan
Sep 13, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
i'm no authority, but to hopefully help keep the ball rolling, i'll lob an outsider's view of the 1980's yosemite defining themes and players into the mix:


plateauing of hard free climbing:
1980: cosmic debris, bill price, 13b. likely second hardest roped climb in the u.s. at this time.
1986: the renegade aka the stigma, watts + skinner, 13b/c
1987: machine gun, scott cosgrove, 13c?
[awa suzuki, croft, kauk, smith and ...]

a culmination in hard ground-up free climbing:
1981: bachar/yerian, 11c r/x
1986: karma, schultz/yager/campbell, 11d a0 r
1988: southern belle, cosgrove/schultz, 12d r
[awa smith and ...]

continued evolution of big wall free climbing including the beginning of siege tactics:
1980: hall of mirrors, burke/cantwell + austin/morris, 12c
1988: salathe wall, piana/skinner, 13b

continued [r]evolution in free soloing:
1986: separate reality, wolfgang gullich, 12a
1987: astroman, peter croft, 11c
1987: link up of astroman and the rostrum, peter croft, 11c
[awa bachar, schultz, braun, and ...]

continued evolution of speed climbing including the beginning of big, fast link-ups:
1980-89: the nose speed record incrementally reduced from sub 13 hrs to sub 10hrs, schultz/middendorf then chrichtley/vogler then bachar/croft then bongard/vogler
1986: first half dome and el cap in a day [14 hrs?], bachar/croft
1989: first nose solo in a day [21:22], steve schneider

continued evolution of big wall aid climbing:
too esoteric for me to have any idea regarding high water marks but beyer, bridwell, kohl, grossman, middendorf, shipley, and ... are just a few that likely factor in ...

continued evolution of big wall aid climbing by women:
1985: ribbon falls dyslexia, ellie hawkins, 10d a4
[awa harrington, freer, and ...]

continued evolution of bouldering
1984: thriller, ron kauk, v9

fecundity:
1980-89: tucker tech's 130+ fas

bolts, ground up, "trad" vs "sport" and other stylistic drama:
1982: wings of steel, jensen/smith
1986: the renegade aka the stigma, watts + skinner, 13b/c
1988: punchline, ron kauk, 12c
1988: salathe wall, piana/skinner, 13b

personalities:
1981: bachar's $10k soloing challenge
1988: the bachar, kauk, chapman brouhaha
braun, walling, yosar, etc. and etc. and etc. ...
[the above etc. and etc. and etc. is where i'm sure the real meat of this story lies...]


edit:
 added gullich's free solo [thanks to Hartouni's list below] as well as nose and schneider speed climbs.
 added hall of mirrors, and machine gun free climbs.
 added thriller boulder problem
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Sep 13, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
But then I see this nitpicky age-old battle taking over the thread. Maybe Bob DA is right. But somehow I don't recall it that way.

The virtual shouting match, yes...the subject of the shouting match, no.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 13, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
from this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1743638

1980
John Bachar solos Nabisco Wall: Waverly Wafer 5.10c, Butterballs 5.11c and Butterfingers 5.11a
Bill Price FA Cosmic Debris 5.13a
Tony Yaniro FA Alien 5.12c
Chris Cantwell, Scott Burke, Scott Cole FA Hall of Mirrors 5.12c
Max Jones and Mark Hudon FFA Pegasus (North Face of Quarter Dome) 5.12

1984
Ron Kauk climbs Thriller
Alan Lester and Pat Adams climb Salathe Wall in one and a half day freeing more pitches than previous ascents
Dave Schultz FFA Lost Arrow Tip 512b

1985
John Middendorf, Charles Coe and Rusty Reno FA of Autobahn, 5.11d
Kim Carrigan and Geoff Wigand FA of America's Cup, 5.12b
Kim Carrigan FFA linking the Rostrum, 5.12b
Todd Skinner FFA of Renegade (nee Stimga) 5.13b
Jerry Moffat and Ron Kauk FFA of Lost Arrow Spire, 5.12b
Peter Croft solos North Face of the Rostrum 5.11c
Peter Croft FFA of Crucifix 5.12b

1986
John Bachar FA of Dale's Pin Job 5.13a
John Bachar FA of Phantom 5.13a
Werner Braun and Scott Cosgrove FA of Power Point 5.11c
John Bachar and Peter Croft climb The Nose and the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome in a day
Yuji Hirayama redpoints Phoenix and Cosmic Debris, 5.13a
Wolfgang Gullich solos Separate Reality 5.12

1987
Peter Croft solos Astroman
Peter Croft FA Excellent Adventure 5.13c
Peter Croft climbs Cosmic Debris
Peter Croft solos Fish Crack
Kurt Smith and Scott Cosgrove FA Cookie Monster 5.12a
Kurt Smith and Dave Hattchel FA General Dynamics 5.13a
Scott Burke and Jeff Folett FA Tour de Force 5.12b
Steve Schneider and Romain Vogler climb The Nose and West Face of El Cap in a day
Scott Cosgrove FA Machine Gun 5.13c
Hidetaka Suzuki FA Title Fight 5.13a
Hidetaka Suzuki FA Casablanca 5.13a
Stefan Glowacz attempts FFA of Salathé Wall
Walt Shipley and Dave Schultz FA Southern Belle 5.11 A0
Randy Leavitt and Rob Slater FA Scorched Earth VI 5.11 A5
Walt Shipley and Troy Johnson FA Native Sun A4+
John Barbella and Eric Brandt FA Heartland

1988
Ron Kauk FA Punchline 5.12b resulting ethics/style debate leads to Camp 4 fist fight between Mark Chapman and John Bachar
Walt Shipley and Kevin Fosburg FA of complete Sentinel Falls ice
Kurt Smith and Ken Ariza FA Keeper of the Flame 5.13a
Todd Skinner and Paul Piana FFA Salathé Wall
Dave Schultz and Scott Cosgrove FFA Southern Belle V 5.12b
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
Hi Bruce, good reminder. I don't think we ever met, I recall you as a bonafide local, but a bit on the fringe of the local scene. I think it was because of your mastery and main focus being lower angle climbs, which (like wall climbing) was a bit out of fashion during that time.

But when I did a subsequent ascent of the rarely travelled "Golden Dawn" on Watkins, I fully understood how that style of climbing, bold and in a majestic place, was incredibly worthy of the experience (I just looked, and I don't really see any information about that route on the internet--what a hidden classic!).

It was always a bit odd to me, as that style of climbing was ultra-well respected in Tuolumne (thinking of new routes on Fariview), but in the Valley lacking full respect. Like those testpieces on Glacier Point, which are likely bad-ass in the fullest.

As you say,:
a FA list doesn't tell half the story of the 1980s, because different strong personalities put their stamp on the era in their own characteristic ways.
Exactly, there's a lost story there that's never been fully shared.

nah000--great outline--probably Morris's contributions should be in there too, as another "Games Climbers Play" category. Probably also the bouldering category, which had its own list of masters who fully contributed to the vibe. It's a good list of some key events and has good triggers for the larger "story" that drove the passion and the atmosphere.

Ed H. --Thanks for all the lists--you were there that whole time, no? Can you remind me what you were up to back then?
Rollover

climber
Gross Vegas
Sep 13, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
Thank you for the lists Ed!!

Minor correction.. 4:22 on the Nose was 1992.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 13, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
I was a graduate student/post-doc/assistant professor on the East Coast during the 1980s. Climbing in the 'Gunks and New Hampshire and occasionally in California.

The lists are compilations from the guidebook histories, Pat Ament's great history, Climbing, Mountain and the AAJ as well as some private correspondence.

I didn't wear lycra climbing back then...

This collection of lists is the result of a rather large project I'm involved in....

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 13, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
This really does make me feel like I was back there again! But even with all the squabbles, I thing Deuce is right, it was a distinct time with a distinct vibe. Maybe crusher will recount his lawn chair/claw hammer ascent of the PO, in a storm! Or there's fusses story of yahoo having to have his Spider-Man T shirt to lead "the most exposed pitch in North American mountaineering" on the Na.

I met Walt, Deuce, Maysho, Swilliam, Cosgrove, Schnieder and many others there in the eighties. I already knew Piana & Skinner from the seventies in Laramie. But it was in the eighties when they created controversy in the valley ( and not just when Todd got busted for using an electric toaster in the men's room in camp four). This is a pretty good cast of characters that was fractal of the scene at the time.

And that's just the valley. There were other scenes I was involved with to various degrees that mushroomed in the eighties; Vedauwoo, Devil's Tower, Arizona ( the golden age of Zonerland! Then when we got kicked out of there, queen creek the mine, the pit, priest draw et al) Utah (indian creek, American fork, sport climbs in big and litte, heavy Zion big wall action etc)
It was both a renasance and progressive, time. There was cool sh#t going on Everywhere!!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 13, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
Xaiver Bongart ?Solo Jolly Roger? when?

Then some thing that this thread has not said.
from '80 on lots of very good climbers snuck in, did their thing
and did more than just survive;
The point is you guys were full on, an intimidating crew in charge,Some times though misdeeds,
charging up climbs in intimidating ways and setting a new pace every other month,
or so it seemed.
Along the lines of what the Canadian Knight, Tami, has said.
We hung together apart in our own crews, and avoided the locals.
It seemed, the better part of valor, was to not let anyone know what we did.
We did not spray... Just climbed really hard.

What's this ? Awe ...what Jaybro said.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 13, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Yos Big Wall Routes

1987
Luminescent Wall VI 5.10b A4 FA Walt Shipley, John Barbella
Native Son VI 5.9 A4 FA Walt Shipley, Troy Johnson
Scorched Earth VI 5.11 A4 FA Rob Slater, Randy Leavitt
The Big Chill VI 5.9 A4 FA Jim Bridwell, Peter Mayfield, Sean Plunkett...
Heartland VI 5.10 A4+ FA Eric Brand, John Barbella

1988
Turkey Shoot V 5.9 A3 FA Steve Bosque, Ken Yager
Octopussy VI 5.9 A3+ FA Dan and Sue McDevitt
Central Scrutinizer VI 5.11c A4+ FA Steve Grossman, Jay Ladin
White Room VI 5.10 A4 FA Walt Shipley, Sean Plunkett
Waterfall Wall VI 5.9 A4+ FA Rick Sylvester, Chauncey Parker
Via sin Liquor VI 5.9 A4 FA Eric Kohl, Alan Humphrey
Horni-Johnson VI 5.7 A3+ FA Jeff Hornibrook, Troy Johnson
Bad Seed VI 5.9 A4 FA Bill Russell, Troy Johnson
Love Without Anger V 5.8 A3 FA Steve Bosque, Rich Albuschkat

1989
Genesis VI 5.10 A4 FA Doug Englekirk, Eric Brand,
Dante's Inferno VI 5.9 A3 FA Eric Kohl
High Plains Dripper VI 5.11 A5 FA Eric Kohl, Alan Humphrey
Bananarama V 5.10a A3 FA Rich Albuschkat, Steve Bosque, Murray...
The Promised Land VI 5.10 A4 FA. Troy Johnson, Jeff Hornibrook, Kevin Fosburg...
The Jet Stream VI 5.9 A4 FA Sean Plunkett, Bill Russell
Flashback V 5.8 A3 FA Steve Bosque, Rich Albuschkat
Kali Yuga VI 5.10 A4 FA John Middendorf, Walt Shipley
Wheel of Torture VI 5.7 A4 FA Eric Kohl
Aqua Vulva VI 5.10 A4 FA Eric Kohl, John Middendorf
Toxic Waste Dump VI 5.8 A3+ FA Eric Kohl
Shadows VI A5 FA Jim Bridwell, Cito Kirkpatrick, Charlie Row, Billy...
Reach for the Sky VI 5.11 A4+ FA Jim Beyer
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
I was born down in Visalia in the 80's. Did you guys hear about that when you were up in the valley? It was a pretty big deal.


One of my few trips to the Valley was with Larry Zulim and Dan Dillinges, they had a lot of funny stories. Sounded like an entertaining decade.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Sep 13, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
I'm very far removed from being even closely a climber of the ranks of anyone mentioned here. But, I am a very fortunate soul to have met and to know many here (30+ of them), and know and fondly recall the moments back on the ground - Camp, the mountain room, the deli, etc. I especially miss the "potluck" dinners at Grant's tailgate with cans of garbanzo beans, tuna, sour cream, and frisbees for plates. And, "the can." Who was it that thew a small rock toward a parking lot ground squirrel and unintentionally killed it?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Sep 13, 2014 - 11:00pm PT
I didn't mean that Mid-Life Crisis was a real "significant" route in terms of climbing accomplishments during the 80s, Kevin. All I was doing was correcting some FA info in Ed's list of FAs by year. Mid-Life is certainly no Southern Belle!

You're right Deuce about "Golden Dawn" really being a Meadows-type route. You approach it from the Meadows and you return to the Meadows after you've done it. Nice one-day adventure, but Escape from Freedom is a much more serious engagement and still hasn't had a on-sight continuous free ascent.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 14, 2014 - 12:17am PT
Scott Burke was all eighties. One talented dude. Let's nots forgets.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Sep 14, 2014 - 09:14am PT
Speaking of Scott Burke, has 'Friday the 13th' over on Royal Arches Apron ever seen a repeat? I've looked over at it from the side and it certainly seemed as intimidating as GBG. Saw some back-off slings, but never any climbers on it. I guess it's 'only a slab' . . .
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Sep 14, 2014 - 09:49am PT
Fer fuk’s sake people, no 1980s Valley retrospective is complete without a detailed exposition of the Mussy Nebula.



Yes. If you want to grok the 80s particulars in full, this is the ticket!

Yeah … Gather ‘round friends … rejoice my fellow historian/hysterians!

You need wait no longer for this to reappear in those late-night TV ads …
‘Just happen to have it all in the jewel chest right here:
(Beer goggles may be useful)


Deep Space Time Machine From The Mussy Nebula
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=158234

The Madness Continues
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=162184

A Public Outrage
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=164463

The Insult Continues
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=165570

Feelin' the Luv Babee
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=166731

It's a Tribal Thing, Bra
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=168021

Goofiness, a Studied Elegance
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=169553

No Turnin' Back!
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=171161

All the Way Down the Bunny Hole
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=171733

Slack in the Day
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=172698

Beyond the Mussy Dome
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=173604
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 10:03am PT
The sixties and seventies seem well understood and well documented, but not so with the 80's, or not to my knowledge.

Wait, I thought it was the 70's that was misunderstood. Remember when Doug Robinson suggested everybody just climb to climb and quit recording all of it? That didn't work! Sorry to keep bringing it up Doug.....your heart was in the right place!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 10:05am PT
Remember when Doug Robinson suggested everybody just climb to climb and quit recording all of it? That didn't work!

...how do you know?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 10:36am PT
Remember when Doug Robinson suggested everybody just climb to climb and quit recording all of it? That didn't work!

...how do you know?

Ed, it was the entire content of an article by Doug in an early 70s issue of Climbing. I have been trying for some time, here on ST, to get Doug to dig it up for all of us. Timing now is perfect. I'm not sure why the great article about keeping your climbs to yourself has to remain a secret. It sure influenced me back then. It's just part of the history, I would just like to see the article again - maybe without the photo Doug ;>) More than anything for me, it was about actually keeping secrets, but I have failed only slightly there.

Oops. Maybe because of my dyslexia, I was thinking early 70s. It would have had to have been after 1974......late enough to influence even the 80s. If all else fails I will contact the magazine, cause this is all so interesting.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
Doug's list of articles in Climbing up through issue 219

Robinson, Doug
A Night on the Ground, A Day in the Open, Book Review (161)140.
Profile (165)78.
“Thou Shalt Not Wreck the Place,” about wilderness & USFS policy (180)80

I'll look them up later...
go-B

climber
Cling to what is good!
Sep 14, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Sep 14, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
McHale's Navy - I think you missed Ed's point. The question was not "How do you know Doug said that" it was "How do you know lots of people didn't do amazing things that never were written up in the magazines or guide books".
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 02:00pm PT
Oh, I see. Obviously it didn't work with everyone. Also, I think I was commenting within the context of the rush to post the history here. Clearly, people have done climbs that have not been recorded.....maybe not so much in Yosemite Valley.
WBraun

climber
Sep 14, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
Clearly, people have done climbs that have not been recorded

One winter day at the turnout a couple friends were gonna do a new one pitch climb.

Said I should come up to it with them.

I wasn't too keen because I figured it would be some leftover pile of junk climb.

Went anyways just for the hell of it.

So we get to the base and they had to do a whole bunch of bong hits, drink some beer and talk a ton smack first.

I got bored waiting so I just free soled the thing before they ever got their sh!t together and left.

Who knows if they ever did it and named it or whatever.

Hahahaha .....
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 14, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
McHales Navy, you might be thinking of the article "The Guidebook Problem," from the '72 or '73 issue of Ascent.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 08:40pm PT


The Guide Book Problem

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 14, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Sep 14, 2014 - 10:24pm PT
Ed and bvd, That's not it. Is there a photo with THE GUIDEBOOK PROBLEM? The article I'm talking about had at least one photo of an 'unknown' climbing area.

The GUIDEBOOK article from Ascent sure reads like what I'm thinking of though, but I know there was a photo. I'm pretty sure there was a photo. I will recognize the photo. It's not the photo Wade posted. Of course, if somebody comes up with the photo, that would be antithetical to the philosophy because then we would have to say what is in the photo, and back then it was more unknown, and meant to stay that way! It's the old problem of 'If I tell you then I have to kill you'.

:>)

deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2014 - 11:43am PT
This is good stuff. I reckon there was yet another Mussy galaxy in Camp 4 that hasn't been fully captured as well as the times in Roy's threads.

There's a glaring omission here, though: The women of the 80's.

Lynn really wasn't around the Valley much in the mid 80's--I went to visit John Long and Lynn around 1984 in SoCal, and I recall a discussion about other arenas being more interesting at the time.

A few recollections:
Lydia Painkihler
Mari Gingery
Lydia Bradey
Sue Harrington
Sue Bonovich and another friend who showed up in mid80's. Sue of course went on to become a force in the Yosemite climbing scene.
Maria Cranor
Tami Knight from time to time.

There are a lot of others like Doe DeRoss and the Swiss Miss (whose real name I don't think I ever knew) who might not have been doing a lot of first ascents (and hence not on one of Ed's lists), but were a significant part of the climbing scene back then.

They all have stories. Lydia Painkihler (I don't know if we've spelled her name correctly--wasn't there a "j" in her name?) was an incredible all-around driven climber, and Sue Harrington did some impressive El Cap solos.

Who remembers the other women of the era?
rbolton

Social climber
The home for...
Sep 15, 2014 - 11:50am PT
A few more names of notables to add to the list of who made the valley entertaining in the eighties.

Clark Jacobs
Frank Sanders
Ed Sampson
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 15, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
Good call Bob!
rbolton

Social climber
The home for...
Sep 15, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
I noticed a large number on my list had already been hit in the big list (Jay Anderson was absolutely on that list).
jstan

climber
Sep 15, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
I have a couple. Phil Bircheff and Al Cornell. Two people who can speak intelligently on just about any topic. The kind of people from whom one can learn.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 15, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
Kevin Fosburg was a badass all around climber.
Jordy Morgan
Cade........
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Sep 15, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
Moving Over Stone I video

Informative, and formative for most of us of that time.

Lynn Hill-Yosemite, California
Peter Croft-Tuolumne, California
Bobbi Bensman-Smiths Rock, Oregon
Jerry Moffatt-Conyonlands, Utah
Todd Skinner-Buttermilk, Boulders
Stephen Glowacz-The High Country
Dale Bard-The Needles



guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 15, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
Ron Carson.... I don't think he went to the YV... the needles- his back yard.

Eddy Joe..... climbed all over.

Eric Ericsson....

Misa Giese... moved out to CO and took up with some dude.

Scott Loomis...

deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
yep, everyone's added good folks who really made it a time to remember. Now, if only we had a crystal ball to revisit some of the many hours spent in the parking lot and at the Deli we'd have a stack of stories about that era...
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Sep 15, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
Tami-
And Julie Brugger was killin' the offwidths still in the 1980s.

Julie's a Tucsonan now.

Deuce- do the Flag boys factor in, in your mind? Hockin' them little units...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 15, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
Jefe, ask Julie about Weigelt changing the the flat tire without a tire iron.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Sep 15, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Anyone else remember that guy named Paul who wore a huge, red, expedition down parka all the time. Very positive guy, but that parka. . .
Meaty

climber
Sep 15, 2014 - 09:37pm PT
Big Wall, done them all.... Everest Paul


Speaking of strong women climbers from that time....Catherine Freer....RIP.


Just to set the record straight again...Duece says he's above the fray?

"But then I see this nitpicky age-old battle taking over the thread."

"But in the larger scheme of things, what climbing has provided to the soul and character--the "credit" for the climb seems a bit less important, no?"


But a few years ago right here in this forum in a thread about bolt choppping.. duece posted this:

Jan 14, 2012 - 03:48am PT - Bolt removal list for 2012

"how 'bout that route to the right of Outer Limits, where the bolts are within reach of one of the finest crack climb in the valley?"


No, the bolts on Satanic Mechanic are not within reach of Outer Limits, why are you nitpicky and lying??... and if you go chop them don't forget to chop Wheat Thin you hypocrite!!
So in 2012 and likely today you're still one of those people that wants to chop bolts, pretty sad duece!! Don't nitpick, get out there and chop!!!
So when you make the hollow claim it's nitpicking, your path is righteous because you're above all that silly stuff, all one must do is read your post here from 2012 to prove how full of crap you actually are.
Nitpicker in 2012.....but now somehow you've forgotten urging folks to chop bolts placed on 1989?
You didn't fool me John, you're a bald faced hypocrite.


Yes, I have the same amount of respect for you too duece....ZERO!


lars johansen

Trad climber
West Marin, CA
Sep 23, 2014 - 10:21am PT
Chuck "Skull Queen" Clance








lars
burnin' vernon

climber
Sep 23, 2014 - 11:43am PT
Spent a LOT of time at the crags, back in the day. Pretty much well known amongst locals of the day that Tracy Dorton was a thief who subsidized his lifestyle by ripping off other climbers and hence deserves no mention here.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
Burnin Verm, I don't ever recall Tracy being accused as a thief. He did seem to get in trouble with LEO from time to time, but among climbers he was a steady member of the rescue team.

Stealing gear from fellow climbers was considered the lowest form of low, so that's a pretty serious accusation. It doesn't sound right to me, unless something happened after my time in the valley that I never heard about.
burnin' vernon

climber
Sep 23, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
I eschew bad mouthing other climbers. Suffice to say the 'crimes' were pretty egregious for me to say anything. I was one of his victims. Not huge value items, at least for me, but little things that add up. Ping Watusi.
Heloise Pendagrast

Trad climber
Tahoe City
Sep 24, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
Kool Times. Anyone remember Mike Artz from West Virginia? And his girlfriend the New Freedom Woman?
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Sep 24, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
Chris Cantwell deserves some recognition . . . he was totally cool to us young dudes on our frequent visits to the Valley in them days. Some of the elite Valley-centric climbers were totally aloof and not very friendly. My personal thanks to Uncle Mike Forkash for climbing some quality Tuolumne routes with me . . . Golden Bars and Ursula especially.
Evel

Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
Sep 24, 2014 - 06:44pm PT
Mike Artz! He's still at it, as is another right-coast Powerhouse-Eric Horst! (Although these days Erics boys are the ones tearing it up.)

Never forget the time a gang of us were working a new line at Bubba City. WAY HARD nobody really even coming close when up walks Mike,cold beer in hand.
After a few more beers and a fatty, he cruised the thing first try.
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Sep 24, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
I had a great chat with Grant Hiskes last night. He said to say hello to everyone. John, I remember my WFR class at Phil's house in JTree. One morning we were all sitting in the living room and Grant was lecturing away and all of a sudden we heard this loud screaming and somebody running into the back yard. We all rush out, you have a plastic knife sticking out of you, and the first thing you said was "TUCKER DID IT"!

We didn't need any more coffee after that!

Robert
OR

Trad climber
Sep 24, 2014 - 08:40pm PT
Hmmm I remember Tracy. That was like 89-94sh in the Valley,.. no?
steve s

Trad climber
eldo
Sep 24, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
Great thread, really brings back memories of some of the best carefree days of my youth. Always had a great trip to the ditch in the 80's! Climbed with a slew of characters such as Young strong Dave, K. Fosburg ,Paul Turecki, Junior, The infamous Dick Cilley, Swilliam,Ned Guy and many others. And let's not forget the "Travel Agent" aka the Mission. Peace ,Steve S.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Sep 24, 2014 - 10:23pm PT
Come on, everybody! Let's hear some stories - like the twelve pack (or more) of OE hauled up to Bishop's Balcony for sunset from the deli with the gang and only one devastator doobie! Names are fine, but more details, please!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 24, 2014 - 11:32pm PT

Ah yes, the 80's. Chillin' in Hell Portal, 1987. Sign boosted from the park, Lawn furniture stolen one drunken night from the lodge.

Those were different times.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 26, 2014 - 09:48am PT
Sounds like they belong to a kleptocracy...?
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2014 - 01:34pm PT
Lots of little stories of colourful personalities.

Take Dave Altman for instance. He lived in Berkeley, and would sojourn to Yosemite a few times every year with some hardcore project climbs in mind, which he would steadfastly and progressively achieve. We called him, "the world's strongest man", he was one of the few who could do a bonafide set of one arm pull-ups. He often carried a well worn ancient book about amazing human feats--I was most impressed with the picture of the two brothers, one doing a one-arm handstand, with the other hand holding a rope taught to a tree. The other brother was doing a handstand on the suspended rope (this was at a time we were refining and advancing the webbing tightrope techniques pioneered by Jeff and Adam).

But Dave's favourite was a man holding a 10 pound bowling ball by a pin. He considered it one of the more amazing feats in the book, and he had built himself a series of training tools to replicate the feat, and would frequently update us on his progress over the years. Never knew if he eventually mastered that particular feat, but many others in the book he had done.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
^^^sounds like a Fish story about psycho Luke...
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
There definitely was a grim side. Like the time some members of the rescue team visited the Deli, their hands still covered with blood after a gory murder suicide body recovery below Glacier Point. Story goes that after some olde E and deli sandwiches the blood on the hands was all gone.

I wasn't there on that one so can't comment on veracity.

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 26, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
Awesome thread thanks!
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
Looks like Lidija Painkiher is the correct spelling of that little powerhouse...

Maybe Grossman is working on a story?

(couldn't edit my previous post)
FTOR

Sport climber
CA
Sep 26, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
another notable strong climber not mentioned much from back then was pat timson. always traveled with his own pull-up bar and installed it in the camp 4 gym when in residence.
bootysatva

Trad climber
Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.
Sep 27, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
Dave Orza, Natasha Druttin, some guy named Cliff dragged me up a bunch of hard tens.
I loved those folks and camp four. I have a giant chest full of slide shows from Yosem, and the High Sierra.
We thought those days would never end.
OR

Trad climber
Sep 27, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
Lots of little stories of colourful personalities.

Take Dave Altman for instance. He lived in Berkeley, and would sojourn to Yosemite a few times every year with some hardcore project climbs in mind, which he would steadfastly and progressively achieve. We called him, "the world's strongest man", he was one of the few who could do a bonafide set of one arm pull-ups. He often carried a well worn ancient book about amazing human feats--I was most impressed with the picture of the two brothers, one doing a one-arm handstand, with the other hand holding a rope taught to a tree. The other brother was doing a handstand on the suspended rope (this was at a time we were refining and advancing the webbing tightrope techniques pioneered by Jeff and Adam).

But Dave's favourite was a man holding a 10 pound bowling ball by a pin. He considered it one of the more amazing feats in the book, and he had built himself a series of training tools to replicate the feat, and would frequently update us on his progress over the years. Never knew if he eventually mastered that particular feat, but many others in the book he had done.

Yup, I remember him well. Guy was strong. He worked for Maysho at Cityrock for a while. He was a great source for Valley stories and route beta. Cool dude and a brainiac.
Avery

climber
NZ
Sep 27, 2014 - 07:54pm PT

80's Women: Lydia Bradey on Zenith. 1982.

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Sep 27, 2014 - 08:10pm PT
Dave Orza Bump!
OTC

Social climber
Sep 29, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
travelling...john rutt
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 29, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
I was born down in Visalia in the 80's. Did you guys hear about that when you were up in the valley? It was a pretty big deal.

You mean you're THAT limpingcrab?
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Sep 30, 2014 - 08:21am PT
bump
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 30, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
Where's BURT BRONSON! How could those pretty-boy prancers make a movie about the Valley hardmen and not include BRUCE BRONSON!
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Sep 30, 2014 - 04:54pm PT

1987
Peter Croft solos Astroman
Peter Croft FA Excellent Adventure 5.13c
Peter Croft climbs Cosmic Debris
Peter Croft solos Fish Crack

Despite the "Valley Syndrome" narrative popular in the late 80s, there were a lot of very talented climbers there in this era. Peter's achievements really stood out though... it seemed like everyone in the Valley became mere mortals when Peter arrived. I remember when he soloed Fish Crack, he had pretty much just arrived for the summer and I think I remember hearing he had only done it once before, and it was 5 years prior! I had just led it for the first time and I was completely floored by this story.
Frank Lucido

Boulder climber
Tahoe
Oct 13, 2014 - 01:19pm PT

I notice that each time there is a list like this my modest contributions seem to get paired down a little. Old guidebook had it right, I also helped Kenny, et. al., on "The Meteor" and seconded Joe Hedge on "Maps and Legends," an obscure line named after an album of outtakes and b-sides. No big deal, but it makes me wonder how many others efforts were left off the list(s), especially when the information has already been published. If the goal is to set the record straight, it's a good idea to do some old fashion cross referencing of available sources, even printed ones. Still it's good to see all those names, they bring back a lot of fond memories of a dynamic decade that saw the adoption of sticky rubber, popularization of videos, and the then controversial practice of sport climbing/rap bolting, among many other developments. Nothing would ever be the same in the climbing world after the 1980's.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 13, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
Thanks, Frank.
We will add you to the FFA of Maps and Legends with Joe Hedge and Drew Davol, 1988.
I don't see "The Meteor" in the route list, but I see:
Meteorite 5.12b TR, FA by Ken Ariza, et al, late 1980s, so we will add you to that, unless that doesn't sound like the same climb.
(Between Cosmic Charley and Delectable Pinnacle Right Side).

We also have you down for:
Bad Company 5.11a or 5.11d FA: Ken Ariza, Cade Lloyd, Frank Lucido, 1988
Guillotine 5.11d FA: Ken Ariza, Frank Lucido, Peter Kern, 1988
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Oct 13, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
Uh oh. Let the butthurts begin.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Oct 13, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
Don't think Frankie's but hurt Bob, just think there were a lot of folk who got used to telling it like it ain't.
He was there, he climbed 'em, he deserves a nod.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
Hi Ed and Clint

Regarding the list of people on page 1 of this thread, I just ran into Chris Peisker at Araplles, where I am at the moment, and he does not recall doing anything new in Yosemite. He mentioned he did a lot of climbing with Carol Bowman. But I saw he was on your lists of FA folks-- do you know what climbs for which he is recorded ?

Cheers
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
Landshark 5.12a Jonny Woodward, Chris Peisker, 5/1985

West end of Wawona Tunnel
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2015 - 03:41am PT
Thanks Ed! You're a true historian. (But we still need to work on further glorifying the 80's era with more of the good stories for a change!). ;)
jonnywoodward

climber
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:31am PT
Oh Chris, that hurts. Landshark wasn't the highligh of all your Valley trips then?
I drove through the Valley last fall, had to stop for a leak and saw that someone had built a convenient bathroom at the west end of the tunnel for all the climbers going to do A Dog's Roof. How kind. Oh, not a bathroom after all. 30 years on, Landshark, once staring at you on the road begging to be climbed, was now completely buried by a vibrant tree. Some routes are destined for obscurity.
klaus

climber
Slauson & Crenshaw
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:39am PT
Maybe Erik Sloan will cut the tree down and power bolt a Mid-pitch anchor as public service?
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Mar 3, 2016 - 09:41am PT
bump
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 3, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
A Dog's Roof

Did somebody say A Dog's Roof? HEY! I DID A DOG'S ROOF! IN THE 80's! ME! ME, GODAMMIT! You CANNOT talk about the 80's without talking about ME. I was THERE, THERE, THERE. (And I took one hell of a whipper -- fell from out of that shallow dihedral -- dead easy 5.8 terrain --above the roof almost to the ground. I was in this brief but productive period when I was leading everything on a single 8.8mm Edelrid rope because it was so light and smooth it was like trailing a kite string.)

Before the whipper:


Regaining composure after the whipper:


American. F*#king. Legend. Bitches.

L.A. Woman

Social climber
Pasadena, CA
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
too many names to look at...was ERik Eriksson on the list? He was there with the best of the bad asses too...I was there...watching.
L.A. Woman

Social climber
Pasadena, CA
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
Dick Cilley was there too...
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Mar 3, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
I was born down in Visalia in the 80's. Did you guys hear about that when you were up in the valley? It was a pretty big deal.

best quote of the thread.

that and bvd being an american bitch.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Mar 4, 2016 - 05:06am PT
bvb, you don't "regain composure. You get pissed off and get right back on the thing. . .

Must be the mustache
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 8, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:56pm PT
bump
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
^^^^^^^
True, drinking at the Deli was cool.

But the rest of what you wrote is all bullsh#t.

I was there, Todd was received well by many in the valley when hanging around camp4, though there was also disagreement with the tactics. It was civil. Beers were shared.

The "Valley Syndrome" bullshit came later with an article by Smoot whom in the literacy tradition of Krakauer, needed "good guys" and "bad guys".

Not saying there wasn't disagreement with styles, but it wasn't the myth of elite valley locals snubbing the visionaries as many have come to hyperbolise of the era.

There were so many visiting climbers with whom the local "elite" were quite helpful with information, gear, and local 'secrets' who then went on to be universally acknowledged for pushing new standards.

I remember it as a very open time through the 80's, though it did kind of implode on occasion, like Bachar's punch out, but most of the time there was the standard open curiousity and competition that healthily thrives in a cutting edge environment.

In the big wall world, I still often reconnect with someone I knew way back then, sometimes I don't remember them even though they tell me of an epic we might have had together, who tells me how I helped them with gear, info, and friendship during what might have been a week or two visit. I don't buy this whole "valley syndrome" crap as representative of the era.

I was living there from 1983-1986, then spent many months each year though about 1990'or so, it was really only a short time--probably around 1990--that the bitterness between styles really made the place suck. That's how I remember it.
Michael Browder

Mountain climber
Chamonix, France (Oregon originally)
Jul 30, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
I was there too. There was a lot of snubbing. No matter what some want to remember.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
Furthermore, a lot of what was being developed/pushed in the 90's really began in the 80's, including:
Fast walls
Clean walls
Free walls
Slacklining
Rope Jumping
Bouldering
Probably BASE, though that generally wasn't climber crossover back then (except for Base104)

All these things were explored and upped in the 80's, a lot of relative unknowns could be cited here, like Rick Cashner, who arguably was as bad ass as Bachar in terms of bold, technical climbing and pioneered many early first one day ascents, years ahead of the time.

deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
can you recall any specific snubs? If I ever snubbed, I would like to apologize.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 30, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
I was there a bunch for short periods during the 80s. Things changed from '81 to '83
I Agree that a few strong groups held the spot light. Some were publicly scathing, then when the sun went down in camp were cool. Some were the exact opposite.
it was a very charged atmosphere if you climbed 5.11. Climbers would appear at the base as I was racking up . (One in particular? Not you!, I'm sure!, but Waiting to start Serenity/Sons,)
Trying to tell me how to climb, no -stick clip- this no -traverse in- that, I got pissed when some one said then you have to wait, cut in line,
I went to the climb just below? Some one knows what it is a thin seam finger crack, sweet 5.11 climbing. I onsighted the rig with ten nuts & hexs.....


I went to the ditch every other year (once or twice more than once a year) from 1979 till the early '90s.
Still . . . .
Gee? No? Me?, I'm only signed onto the climbing webs sights in hopes that photographic evidence of my existence turns up. Some where someone has pictures.
I was a hundred pounds of wire, ran up sh#t.N they took bets as to the length of my survival in the Rocky Mountain N. Park dispatch office, where I climbed with Ned Gillette.
I had climbed with many well known climbers, was personally known by sight to some at the climbing school, having been taken climbing as a child,
still looking like that boy, seen as a no one from nowhere I was treated to death sandbagging in 1983,
My 3rd or 4th trip to the ditch, so between '81 & '83 some thing changed.


Ahh the better desecration, of the myth of a welcoming Valley, it would be better to show
False support of heroes, but if you did not strut, show-boat,and spray, you felt un-welcome


This has been brewing since Flip Flop, reminded me that Xavier, was really amazingly nice to me, that's it, one foreigner and a bunch of stoners who barley climbed ( Mark Lyman?)

I did not care then it was fun and competitive,
you guys were the best, it was and always will be a locals only show, in many ways.
it was intimidating enough to throw one self at the walls.
Never mind the egos of soon to be or already arrived granite masters who ran up the big stone, in times , that we, most of us, hoped to climb 7-8 pitches.in.

I do not doubt that the blame, for this aggressive, defense of valley standards
was coming from A righteous place,
it existed and to some extent went on that way for years
till the visitors skills took over en-mass, hard to say when; around 1991(?)
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
I wish people would name it up, I think it was a few key individuals that people refer to. I hung out with guys like Werner, Coz, Schultz, Walt, none of whom I ever saw snub anyone, quite the opposite in fact, and were quite ready to lend gear and talk about approaches, cruxes, concerns, etc, about any particular route.

I admit there were a few people hanging around whom, frankly, could be out of line with histrionics, but it wasn't the norm and way obvious from a distance that they had a chip on their shoulder, same as you'd find at many climbing areas. I have some friends who don't want to climb in Boulder to this day because they have heard the scene is all elite and stupid, but I always had a good time in many months in Boulder, and it was the same there back in the 80's--there were some who were threatened about sharing the resource and didn't make you feel welcome, but most who were glad to see more potential climbing partners learn the area once you balanced your 'talk' with a climb or two.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 30, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
Yeah I would love to switch this to a Boulder bash,
but really no can be but hurt about climbing slights from the 80s,
an extra bolt here or there
does not compare to the pin cushion approach available to some big named climbers today.
Or the Strange actions Book Of Revelations thing. What are the chances that of the few lines I'm familiar with in the ditch that one got such treatment, if I admit my transgressions
Will that make Nanook stop? Should he stop? If his vision is the one that is coming , I'd better take up kites or boarding or kite-boarding that safe right? No artificial aid bouncing off rocks. . .
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
^^^^^
True, dat!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 30, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
Yo....I vividly recal Pat Ament introducing slack lining to Camp 4 in the early 70's.....and bouldering was alive and well in the 60's.....you might recall the Pratt Mantle.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
I suppose my point is that it was actually much more civil than is sometimes imagined--notwithstanding the late 80's punch out and the WOS ropes (which was a whole different era, 1981 as Gnome suggests).

There was resistance to sport climbing, which eventually got overwhelmed due to positive visions of guys like Kauk, but to argue that there shouldn't have been any resistance is worthy of debate. It's clear that consensus is possible when you see unbolted areas like the Gritstone in the Peak District. It's more that Yosemite had a greyer line as to the appropriateness of sport climbs at the time, due to the diversity of crags. But this Valley Syndrome idea goes a lot farther than an argument about bolts and dismisses the fact that the groundwork for a new era (the types of adventuring mentioned above) was being developed at the time--it wasn't a bunch of has-been slackers as people sometimes infer, quite the opposite.

Edit--Jim, not saying those things were necessarily 'invented' in the 80's, but they were certainly getting pushed. Pat was likely on chains, the webbing came on in the 80's for example. Personally, I pride self as one of the only slack liners who could go from a hang, mantle, sit, then stand on the tensioned webbing. We probably had the first "high lines" in the Valley (though Adam G and Jeff E. had been pioneering in other areas). Then of course later the first Lost Arrow slack line came in very late 80's which established it as a pursuit in its own right. (This is all in contrast to the retrospective video histories which imply slacklining was invented by Chango in the 90's, for example).
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 30, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Really well put, John!

I didn't agree on a bunch of sh#t, with Todd and Paul, but we all knew it, and remained friends! I shared an office at the u of Wyo with Todds brother, Orion, father of the photographer, Becca Skinner.
My last contact with Todd was him emailing me out of the blue, we hadn't talked in a couple years, that he had a place just outside of the valley, that I was welcome to bivvy at, contact him, for the key!
Some years before that, I saw his slideshow @ rei in Tempe, I had my left arm in a cast from when I broke my left pinkie, when a hook pulled when I was establishing a Sport climb ground up.

" Jay, wtf?" He asked, in more polite language.
" Todd, you're gonna love this one," I answered.
We had different approaches, and goals, ultimately, but we were largely along similar paths. Which I think was true about a bunch of those " Great debates" back then.


Sheeiiit! One of my best days gym climbing, was with Bachar and Ed Hartouni in Oakland, a few weeks before John left us.

We all had more in common, than the media reports of factioning felt the need to suggest, than we did apart!

Yerian was the most articulate about this, in his Ghandian/King - worthy speech at the Bachar memorial in Mammoth; "it's about love, there are fewer of us all the time, and we have to hold together!"
Sorry Dave, I'm paraphrasing, and you were more articulate than that, but that moved me more than when I saw Jesse Jackson deliver the " I am somebody" speech live in Chicago, when I was a kid.

We' re always gonna have disagreements, and I think the current narcicisstic, Instagram et al based,, posing vs actually climbing thing, is a much bigger issue than styles of actually establishing real climbs dilemma of the eighties, but we move on.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Jay you were a true local if there was any, despite the fact that you escaped for part of the year. Always good to see your smiling face and understated badassness back in the day...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 31, 2016 - 09:19pm PT
Thanks John! I feel canonized 😎
I always felt at home there back then., no matter how many hundred miles I had to drive to arrive. I was always walking into preexisting conversations I'd been having with you, Walt, Russ, cos, shipoopi, the kid, Werner, John dill, jo, s William, and of course the Cilley one and so many others. One year I stopped for coffe in the meadows when the grill opened and there was Walt, in climbing shoes at eight am, " ya think you could give me a ride into the ditch?" Or the time cos accosted me before I got out of the car," you really need to go do PowerPoint, checkout the ow pitch"

I'd arrive with no plans and be on a wall, or first, or early ascent within hours!
Good times!
It sounds like they're still having em there, I really hope so!
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
We know each other, King tut? Tell me who!

I vaguely recall the Edlinger visit. I think most of us would have loved to have met him and talked with him, never saw him at the usual hangs, though. I think I can say of the climbers who were living there, like guys like Coz and Schultz and me too for that matter, it was more awe and a kind of shyness that prevented us from getting to know and meet him, more likely than a snub event--again, who's the f*#king snubbers that people refer to? It was more like someone of our local crowd having seen him passing by at the market or something, which was then followed by: " wow, what was he up to" kind of thing.

Bruce Morris and Chris Cantwell were actually locals in my opinion, more so than most. Again, I would have looked forward to asking those guys about their routes, but never, not once, saw them in the usual Camp 4 hangs. I don't think it was intentional on their or on the "locals" part, just different ways of experiencing the valley. I think they had a place outside of the valley--a real house even!

Now that I think of it, I do recall Bachar telling me how he showed Edlinger around, and took him up to Foresta to check out his backyard gym.

Who knows, maybe Smoot did get snubbed. Maybe he had something to do with it?

Ps, thanks for the good words about my goofy face--people still tell me that! :)


deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2016 - 10:56pm PT
Ok, giving this some thought.

Here's the list of 'locals' when The Valley Syndrome was published in that early issue of Rock and Ice, which like Tami mentions, was trying to gain a foothold in the climbing mag biz:

Rescue Team:
1. Werner Braun
2. Grant Hiskes
3. Doug Macdonald
4. John Middendorf (me, the deuce)
5. Scott Cosgrove
6. Dave Schultz
7. Bill Russell
8. Dan McDivett
9. Tucker Tech
10. Dimitri Barton
11.Troy Johnson
12. Tracy Dorton

Fish was often on rescue in the summertime. I think Doug (Rudy McNugget) sometimes took a leave, and Tracy got kicked off by the Rangers temporarily from time to time leaving that 12th spot open. Walt was on there, too.

Other 'locals' at that time:
John Bachar (Foresta)
Rick Cashner (Foresta)
Mike Corbett (had some gig with some Curry gals)
Steve Bosque (Bay area)
Dean Fidelman (SoCal)
Micheal J Paul (SoCal)
Mike Lechlinski (SoCal)
Mari Gingery (SoCal)
Charles Cole (SoCal)
Sue Harrington (NPS)
Sue Bonovich (Dan's van)
Jo Whitford (Curry housing)
Rich Albushcat (boulders? On rescue off and on)
Stretch (boulders for sure)
Harpole (some other boulders)
Steve Gerberding (Curry)
Don Reid (Curry guides school)
Fig (NPS, I think)

This mostly off the top of my head, certainly a few more. Kauk wasn't really around in mid-80s much, he was hanging in El Portal), and Croft came a bit later.

These are, for the most part, really great people who loved climbing and were friendly and open to fellow climbers. So I wonder who did all this snubbing?

Edit: oh, and of course Jay Anderson and Frank Saunders, the most open loving human ever... :)

(Edit--Jim Brennan, why did you delete your posts? They had some good comments)
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
Jim, nice words and much more reflective of the era I reckon.

King Tut, I still don't get it. You keep making the claim that the locals were as#@&%es and snubbed and bullied and harassed and shunned and slandered, and that was the way it "was".

My counter-claim is was a very few dickheads who did all that stuff you're talking about, and most of people living there were good people who either were open and friendly, or perhaps were just normally nonplussed by the visitors. But also, that a lot of the people living there were actually doing badass stuff, pioneering in fact (but not necessarily spraying about it in the mags) and that they were not the slackers that Smoot implied we were.

Furthering that misconception seems to be as bullying as all those things you appear to want to brand on all the locals living there at the time.

In my opinion, it's no good to keep perpetuating this "valley syndrome" stuff like it was an actual consipriacy by do-nothing climbers. That's why I say name it up, point out the few who did shitty things, perhaps give them a chance to retrospectively apologize like Schneider so sincerely did, but please quit implying it was the 'locals'--I was a local, and I appreciate you recall me as being friendly, but I don't really think I was the exception, rather the exceptions were the ones who engaged in bullying and interfered with other's climbing (and, like Jim says, were probably still in the parking lot past 10am most days!).

A few dickheads doesn't a village make. Frankly, I think Smoot owes a lot of people an apology. There, I said it.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Aug 5, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Here you go, Jeff Smoot's VALLEY SYNDROME article in full.
For better or worse, no 80s Valley retrospective is complete without it!

Thanks to Steelmonkey for digging this up and transcribing it. (Ditto for his transcription of Smoot's Kim Carrigan profile, two posts down).
Thanks also to Eve Tallman a.k.a. "Eve Tree" and Chris Trudeau a.k.a. "Creamy Chris" for generating their Climbing Magazine index.

VALLEY SYNDROME
Commentary by Jeff Smoot

Climbing Magazine, #94, February 1986

Yosemite has been under a barrage of bad press lately, and according to nearly everyone you talk to -- outside of California -- it has been long overdue. Even foreign visitors, such as Moffatt and Carrigan, with only a brief exposure to Yosemite, have had few kind comments. Don’t be offended by what they’ve said about Yosemite, however. They weren’t trying to get anyone upset. Their main motive was to get some reaction, to prompt American climbers to get out onto the crags and start climbing, to start pushing themselves, and not just sit around believing that the hardest routes in America, in Yosemite, are the ones already done. Maybe if we would put some effort into climbing, we would get more out of it; we could raise the standards and, quite possibly, improve. It’s going to be tough, though. There’s a problem gripping part of the American climbing scene; it’s what’s wrong with American climbing, plain and simple. It’s called the “Valley Syndrome”.
The Valley Syndrome is a kind of creeping lethargy, a sedentary stagnation that cloaks Yosemite Valley in a shroud of complacency.
There are pockets of resistance, of course, but according to a number of recent visitors to the so-called Mecca of world rock climbing, the Valley scene is dead. Admittedly, some of the best climbers in America are in Yosemite. But lately that isn’t saying much, considering that most Valley climbers don’t go anywhere outside of California and, especially, since the likes of Carrigan, Moffatt and Edlinger continue to make a mockery of the hardest routes in America. The “Best of America”, it seems, are no longer among the best in the world. And, more often than not, the best climbers in America are foreigners.
If you don’t believe it, just glance at the facts. In other countries -- Australia, Germany, France, England -- climbers such as Kim Carrigan, Jerry Moffatt, Patrick Edlinger and Wolfgang Gullich have established climbs which are harder than 5.13, routes that are far harder than anything in the States.
For years, the hardest route in America was Grand Illusion, a route done in 1979. Why is it that, despite a quick lead in the rock climbing game, American climbers have fallen behind? And why is Tony Yaniro the only American to have Grand Illusion? Carrigan made the fifth ascent in only two days of effort, after Gullich, (who made the second ascent in 1982), an unidentified German, and Hidetaka Suzuki had already climbed the route.
Grand Illusion is in California; everyone who has repeated it has traveled thousands of miles to do so, yet few Californians have even tried it. Moffatt flashed The Phoenix, yet few Valley climbers have tried it. Why are foreign climbers willing and able to do our hardest routes in excellent style when the “Best of America” won’t go near them?

“STIGMA: A scar left by a hot Iron: a mark of shame or discredit; a specific diagnostic sign of a disease ...”
Webster’s Dictionary

Despite what Yosemite locals may tell you, the first pitch of The Stigma, an aid practice line of the Cookie Cliff, goes free at solid 5.13. Thus, it is by far the hardest free climb in the Valley. They might call it something else -- a “hangdog” route, perhaps -- but it is no more of a hangdog route than Cosmic Debris, The Phoenix or the Rostrum Roof. Every 5.13 in America has been sieged to some great extent, and most 5.12’s as well, so why all this fuss about The Stigma? No one, so far, has been able to make an on-sight, flash ascent of a 5.13; at least, no American, and especially on the first ascent. But does this mean we should not try, by whatever means, to improve, so that someday we may be able to?
What is significant about The Stigma is that Todd Skinner, the self-proclaimed renegade climber who claimed the first free ascent of the pitch, knew very well what he was doing. He was going against the grain of Valley ideology by fixing pins in The Stigma and then sieging the hell out of it to free climb it. He was making a statement, perhaps inadvertently, trying to break the Valley Syndrome. He was not the first, certainly, but his ascent of The Stigma is one of the most controversial and, thus, one of the most important.
What Skinner did was try to snatch the hardest free climb out from under the noses of Valley climbers. It was an act which has already left a foul taste in the mouths of certain Californians who, in the name of preserving ethical purity, had not even tried to free The Stigma, convinced perhaps that it would be too hard, would take too much effort, would be a “hangdog” route, or perhaps that they might fail. It is safer to sit at a distance and call something “impossible” -- to hide behind a mask of “good ethics” -- than it is to have the courage to come forward and try something impossible like The Stigma, which is what Skinner did. It took even more courage to do it in Yosemite, knowing that everyone there was against hirn, and to keep on trying after being confronted and told that he was a “hangdog”, that he was violating Valley ethics, and that he shouldn’t even bother.
It seems that Valley climbers have already dismissed Skinner’s ascent of The Stigma as a joke. But, then, they have done the same for others, such as Henry Barber, who “stole” Butterballs, Ray Jardine, who supposedly chopped holds on The Nose of El Cap, and even Warren Harding, who got more bad press overthe Dawn Wa//than anyone ever will for any climb.

“... You just live in this little world thinking the routes of five years ago are the hardest routes in the world. The Valley’s a little world, a very little world, with little people.”
Kim Carrigan

The “little world” of Yosemite Valley is the strict ethics capital of American climbingilNobody sieges, nobody previews, and nobody does anything in “bad” style. They usually just go bouldering instead. There have been significant advancements in that area, certainly. But the hardest route in the Valley prior to 1985 was either Cosmic Debris or The Phoenix, both overrated at 5.13. Why hadn’t anything harder been done? Not because there was nothing left to do. The Stigma was blatantly obvious, and there are still other potential 5.13’s. More than likely, it was the fact that no one was willing to go against the harsh “Valley Code of Ethics” and push themselves, to make an honest effort and press on despite repeated failure.
Skinner showed up, full of ambition, worked on The Stigma for weeks and did it, establishing what is without a doubt the hardest free climb in the Valley. After he claimed it as a free ascent, Valley climbers were irate, as if Skinner had no right to come into their area and steal their route, even though none of them was willing to even think of trying it. Even if the pitch had been done in perfectly legitimate style, it seems doubtful that Valley climbers would have accepted it.
What’s wrong with sieging? Why shouldn’t we try something that’s way over our heads? Who cares if we aren’t able to do something in perfect style? Valley climbers shouldn’t be angry with Skinner for doing The Stigma in bad style; they should be mad at themselves for not having done the route first in whatever style. Why didn’t they place pins on rappel and then try to free it? Bad style? Why didn’t they top-rope it? Surely a top-rope ascent cannot be considered bad style; at least, not by California standards.
Skinner didn’t breach any ethic by fixing pins and then trying to lead The Stigma. He didn’t place bolts, or chop or improve holds. All he did was place pitons in an aid crack and chalk it up a little. Certainly he didn’t, to use Carrigan’s words, “detract from anyone else’s efforts to do it in better style”. On the contrary, he gave us something to aspire to, to train for, and to try to do in better style, while at the same time improving his own ability to do future routes in better style.
Another trickster who is greatly disliked in California is Tony Yaniro, who has been slandered heavily for his siege style of climbing -- and possibly because he was a better climber than a lot of his critics. He had done the hardest route, in any case. So what if he fixed pins? So what if he left a rope hanging overnight? Pins can be removed from routes, and a hangdog or a rope left overnight doesn’t take anything away from someone who wants to do a route in better style. It’s not like a bolt, which affects everyone; these “taints” affect only the climber who uses them. Yaniro pushed the standards almost before the standards existed, establishing the hardest route in the country many years ahead of its time. What kind of reaction did he get? People hated him. Certainly his ascent of Grand Illusion was an accomplishment worthy of at least a little praise. Or was it merely the selfish act of self-admitted trickster, defiling the purity of American rock climbing?

“It’s just so stagnated...It’s the most apathetic climbing area I’ve seen."
Jerry Moffatt

Is there really complacency in Yosemite? Next time you go there, take a look for yourself; the answer is a resounding yes. The attitude seems to be: “We have the hardest routes in the world, so why should we try something harder? Everyone still thinks we’re the best, so why bother? All those other routes are hangdog routes; they’re not really hard. Besides, if we hung all over routes, we could do them, too.” The problem is that the hardest routes in Yosemite, the hangdog routes included, aren’t even close to being the hardest in the world. Even The Stigma is not the hardest route in America.
Another problem is the way Valley climbers treat visiting climbers. Many locals act as if they own Yosemite in the same way a school bully thinks he owns the playground. If you don’t play by his rules, however unfair, he will taunt you, threaten you, and bring his friends along to laugh at you and call you a “homo”, then run away when the teacher comes.
Several episodes back up this comparison, such as the Wings of Steel incident, where outsiders establishing a new line on El Cap had their fixed ropes pulled down and, of all things, defecated on. Valley climbers -- rescue climbers, in fact -- allegedly admitted that they were not only responsible, but even proud of what they had done, but later denied any involvement when confronted by park authorities.
In another incident, a British climber who had just arrived in Yosemite was directed by a park ranger to “set (his) tent up anywhere” in Camp Four, which he promptly did, unwittingly choosing the hallowed rescue site. The hapless visitor will not soon forget the verbal lashing he received when a Valley climber discovered him erecting his tent there. In any other area, he more than likely would have been shown, politely, where he could camp; in Yosemite, he was treated like a trespasser, a memorable and novel way to welcome a foreign visitor.
Finally, when Alan Watts, a noted “hangdog” climber from Oregon, arrived in the Valley to try and repeat The Renegade (as Skinner had renamed the pitch in response to the Valley climbers’ reaction to his ascent), he had barely started working on the line when a group of locals, the “Cookie Cliff Hooters”, gathered on a large rock at a safe distance and began yelling at him. This same group was probably responsible for scribbling homosexual innuendo, with illustrations, on the dirty rear window of his truck.
Fortunately, not all Valley climbers can be grouped with the troublemakers. Many maintain a certain ambivalence towards visitors, and don’t seem to mind so much what other climbers do, short of drilling unnecessary bolts or chopping holds and otherwise changing the rock. Ron Kauk, for instance, showing Alan Watts how to make the final move on Midnight Lightning; and John Bachar, who talked with Todd Skinner even while he worked on The Stigma. And there are others, certainly. Many Valley climbers appear to have transcended the puerile attitudes of a few, but it takes only a few to ruin the Valley experience for many others.
The scar created by Skinner was reopened by Watts, who repeated The Stigma on only his fifth attempt from the ground, with very minimal hangdogging his first few efforts, and without fixed protection, since Todd’s pins had been removed. The style of Watts’ ascent left very little to be criticized, yet Valley climbers still wouldn’t believe it.
No locals witnessed Watts’ ascent, as had been the case with Skinner. They simply sat back at a distance, ripe with prejudice, and “knew” what Alan was up to. “Watts is a hangdog. Therefore, he couldn’t possibly have climbed The Stigma in good style. He must have chopped holds or something . . .” Even when confronted with the facts, they chose to ignore them, insisting that no such thing had been done. They’d rather have burned both Watts and Skinner together at the stake for their joint heresy, than to have conceded that the standards had been raised by outsiders.
Watts, like Skinner, merely shrugged it off. “They just aren’t willing to accept that someone might be better than they are,” he said. “I’m not saying that I am better than they are, but that there are a lot of climbers who are better than anyone in the U.S. A lot better!”




Yosemite, like all National Parks, is set aside for the enjoyment of everyone, not just for a handful of narrow-minded rock climbers. It is truly one of the greatest rock climbing areas in the world, as is shown by the annual influx of climbers from all nations. Hopefully, in the future, all climbers can share and enjoy the Valley on equal terms, without having to feel like they are desecrating the altar of American rock climbing.
And maybe someday, after the smoke has settled, Yosemite climbers will emerge from the ashes to become the best climbers in the world once again.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Aug 5, 2016 - 08:40am PT
My wave , my beach............
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Aug 5, 2016 - 09:08am PT
And Jeff Smoot's companion piece, if you will, to VALLEY SYNDROME, published one issue prior.
Definitely some juicy quotes from Kim Carrigan in this little ditty!

Such as:

“The Valley’s a little world, a very little world, with little people!”

Profile: A Conversation with Australia’s Leading Rock Climber
By Jeff Smoot

Climbing Magazine, #93, December 1985

I had the good luck to meet Kim Carrigan in Yosemite Valley during his latest visit to the United States last spring. Geoff Weigand, another visiting Australian climber, told me that Kim was climbing the Nose of El Capitan, so I had to wait. I wanted to ask him a question: exactly what is a “universal, sports, and free climber”? (From a Mammut rope ad).

“A terrible translation, I’m afraid,” he told me a few days later in Camp Four, shaking his head. But it was I shaking my head in amazement a few days later, after Carrigan had made an ascent of the Valley’s hardest testpiece, Cosmic Debris (5.12 + ), on only his fourth try! So I’m sure that, whatever a universal, sports, and free climber is, Kim Carrigan is among the best.

Many of you have no doubt seen the advertisements touting Carrigan as one of the world’s best climbers. Well, believe them! Kim proved it on his latest visit to Yosemite, making a number of good style ascents of the hardest routes, including Cosmic Debris, The Phoenix (5.12), The Alien (5.12c, on-sight), and The Rostrum (V, 5.12c), from bottom to top, connecting all of the hardest variations, including the final 5.12 pitch, on-sight and without falls, the first time that has been accomplished. At Smith Rock, Oregon, he repeated a number of the desperate new face climbs, managing the first 5.12+ pitch of Monkey Face, East Face on his third try. And, as a finale to his West Coast tour, he made the fifth ascent of Grand Illusion, previously thought the hardest climb in America at 5.13c, on the morning of his second day, in only seven attempts overall, for the fastest ascent the route has seen! It is easy to see why Carrigan is the foremost climber in Australia.

Carrigan, 27, started climbing in the Blue Mountains, near Sydney, at age fourteen. His school group instructors had trouble with him though, because, as he put it, “I was actually keen to go climbing.” He and his friends were ostracized from the group because of their relentless enthusiasm, and the instructors often wrote letters home to their parents urging them to stop the boys from climbing!

Not long after he started climbing, Carrigan discovered Mount Arapiles. Now he prefers “Araps” to any other area in Australia, because of the infinite potential for new routes, despite the fact that the crag has been decared ‘climbed-out’ more than once. Carrigan always seems to find a new line. “There are dozens of routes at Arapiles that would be ‘three star’. There are so many hard routes, and so many new routes to do!”

Carrigan took to climbing at Arapiles so rapidly that, within three years time, he had clearly estabished himself as the best rock climber in Australia. “It was very easy to be the best,” Kim says, “because there were no hard routes, and almost no good climbers.” The hardest route in Australia when Kim started climbing was graded 20 on the Austra: Nan system -- about 5.10. Within three years, he had surpassed that, establishing 22 as the new standard. He has remained at the forefront of hard free climbing in Australia ever since.

Of Carrigan’s first ascents at Arapiles, he considers Procol Harem one of the most important. Henry Barber had tried the line, declaring that it would certainly go free at 26, despite the skepticism of the locals. But, prompted by Barber’s prediction, Carrigan tried the line and, much to everyone’s surprise, reached a point only five feet below the top on his first day. Two days later, Procol Harem was the hardest route in the country at 26.

Since then Carrigan has worked on one improbable line after another. In 1982, after four solid days of effort on one route he suffered a dislocated shoulder and was forced to stop climbing for two months. The layoff failed to dampen his enthusiasm for the route, however, and he was back on it immediately after his shoulder had healed. After three

more days work, he had established India as Australia’s first 29 -- moderate 5.13. Then, soon after completing India, Carrigan set to work on yet another, even more improbable line. The route proved to be so difficult that, after several days of tremendous effort, he was unable to complete the line. He was hoping to have it finished before an upcoming trip to Europe. Then, in a rush of desperation, he hired a car to take him to the crag for one last try on the day he was to leave. He failed miserably, and had to wait until his return to Australia before establishing Masada at 30.

Carrigan is currently eager to return home to yet another project, a route at Arapiles which he has named Serious Young Lizards, which he is certain will be Grade 32 -- which would be 5.14 in America. “I don’t have many rivals in Australia,” he says.

Carrigan is one of a number of climbers, such as Jerry Moffatt and Wolfgang Gullich, who spends much of his time traveling to other countries to try the hardest routes there. He feels that travel is important for a climber. “For me, it’s a chance to meet people who have similar interests and philosophies about life. I enjoy making new friends by traveling. If you travel, you get to see what’s happening everywhere in the world. You don’t get this sort of narrow, parochial view of what climbing’s about.”

Kim’s first trip abroad brought him to America, where he stayed for over a year, climbing the big walls of Yosemite Valley. Among other climbs, he made the second ascent of the Pacific Ocean Wall on El Cap; he also managed an ascent of the Salathe Wall with only twenty-six carabiners. “That,” he says, “was memorable.”

He returned to Yosemite again in 1980, but found it less interesting than on his previous visit. A week later he was off for Smith Rock, the first stop on a cross-country voyage that took him to Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, and finally to the East Coast, to the Shawangunks.

“The Gunks was fantastic! It’s one of my favorite places in the world. It’s a lot like Arapiles, with lots of roofs and face climbing, which is my favorite.”

From New York, Carrigan ventured to England, where he spent nearly a year climbing on British limestone. “I’d like to go back to England,” he says. “There are a lot more hard routes there now.”

In 1983, Carrigan left Australia for England once again. On this trip he visited France and Germay as well. While in Germany, Kim got a lucky break. A friend mentioned to him that Mammut, the rope manufacturer, was looking for a climber to sponsor. Kim jumped at the opportunity. He met with company officials at a Munich trade show, and the deal was arranged. “I had to sell myself as a great climber,” he recalled, “but it worked!”

Always outspoken, Kim has remained a controversial figure on the climbing scene. His remarks about Americans seem especially cutting, such as his “There should be more of these” remark about the Dead Americans route at Arapiles. I asked him why there was so much anti-American antagonism in Australia.

“We’re very much down on America for its imperialist politics,” he told me straightforwardly, “the way it criticizes Russia, and then acts just like Russia.”

If Australians are down on America for its aggressive foreign policy, Carrigan is down on American climbers for quite another reason. “I find American climbers to be very complacent,” he says, “especially in California. A big problem is the ethics. Because they won’t hang-dog, people are afraid to try something that might be over their limit. So that has the effect that they will try nothing. Rather than trying and failing, they try nothing and then go bouldering all day!”

Kim feels that the American bolting ethic -- not placing bolts on rappel especially -- is a detriment to the advancement of the sport, and a major reason why Americans are falling behind. “What’s the difference between drilling on lead and drilling on rappel, except that you might get hurt? As far as ethics go, you’re still drilling! The ethic restricts what everywhere else has been the natural growth of the sport. I mean, the hardest route in Yosemite is five years old. Look at what Alan Watts has done at Smith Rocks; he’s practically established 5.14 in America all by himself!

“Everywhere else has a dynamic scene; in the States, it’s just a dead one!”

Carrigan hopes that a “kick in the bum” from foreign climbers will change a few attitudes. “There are a lot of foreign climbers here this year, and they’re actually keen and interested in doing new things. Even Todd Skinner trying to free The Stigma, that’s pretty controversial. For someone relatively unknown to come into the garden of the Valley demi-gods and give something they all think’s impossible a go, I’d say that it’s very controversial, as will the style in which he’ll eventually do it.” (See Basecamp in this issue and Climbing #92.)

But Kim feels that this is the only way for standards to increase, for climbers to try things that seem impossible for them. “It doesn’t detract in any sense from someone else’s attempts to do them in good style. It gives them something to aspire to. If you don’t have that, you just don’t have anything. You just live in this little world thinking that the routes of five years ago are the hardest routes in the world.

“The Valley’s a little world, a very little world, with little people!”

Weary of the Valley scene, Carrigan left Yosemite less than two hours after ‘ticking’ the last route, Cosmic Debris, from his list. Needless to say, he was very pleased with what he had accomplished there. In addition to repeating the hardest climbs, he had emphasized his point about the apathetic Valley scene by establishing a new route on the Cookie Cliff, with Weigand. Kim led the route on-sight, without falls, and named it, like a pointed stick, America’s Cup (5.12c).

“And,” he smirked, “you can have it back when you get good enough!”
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Aug 6, 2016 - 02:11am PT
As usual Kevin, you've parsed the issue very well here.
I'm always impressed with your considerable clarity and equanimity in this regard.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2016 - 03:15am PT
Still think the whole point has been missed. The so-called Valley syndrome implied two claims--that nothing was happening, and that the locals were bullies. It terms of the first claim, certainly Yosemite might have lagged in the technical prowess that was being pushed in places like Smith Rock (generally well-protected rap bolted climbs). Smoot's whole premise, in my opinion, is that that was all that mattered and since that particular game wasn't being pushed, Yosemite was a place strewn with laggards.

Notwithstanding the fact that Yosemite was still a premier venue for bold runout climbs at near the highest level of difficulty, I would argue it further, that the climbers in the mid-80's established much of the groundwork for what was considered the main cutting edge in the 90's; that is, long hard free and fast big walls.

Kevin, you are someone whom I would consider a longtime leading proponent of Yosemite's hard long free routes--the same spirit of adventure led to guys like Coz and Kurt making a significant push into long hard free on El Cap. Schneider, too, for that matter. This is pre-MTV era, of course, and perhaps it was part of Yosemite's local culture not to "spray", so there was little fanfare when these pioneering efforts were accomplished.

The fast walls in a push was another front forwarded in this era--this combined going bold and free, with cleaner aid and new techniques for going fast all day long. Cashner and Corbett, myself and Schultz were doing all sorts of first one-day ascents of formations formerly Grade VI's. This of course led to the explosion of walls-in-a-push that made the public eye in the early 90's. We weren't slackers, we were pretty active in fact, and I believe we had vision.

This whole Valley Syndrome rep--slackness and slander--Roy, you were there lots of the time--you were climbing pretty hard, and I reckon you were pretty open to most visitors--what's your take on the whole snub arguments? I don't recall it that way, but tell me if I am wrong.
jstan

climber
Aug 6, 2016 - 04:15am PT
Climbers, and others, share only one thing. They tend to do things that they enjoy. Some enjoy free climbing some enjoy aid. Others enjoy their very personal blend of the two. Some don't enjoy sieging, others do. We don't even have to talk about how finger size and arm length can affect perceived difficulty to realize the simple idea of "the world's best climber", is perhaps a shade too simple. Arguments lasting a half century notwithstanding, such questions have not been resolved. And probably will not be resolved successfully in a thousand years.

When first touching rock I expect deep down every person knows subliminally whether difficulty is something they enjoy. If difficulty is enjoyed the option is there to pick the form of climbing one enjoys most, and then seek to find and to advance the dividing line between what one can do and what one cannot do.

Very simple. And no fuss.

Edit:

Tarbuster says:
We were all just beginning to work it out.

In our fast changing world where everything is different from day to day, Tar's observation is virtually a truism. Whether it refers to rock climbing or to governmental elections. Success will come only when we are able to live with change and are able smoothly to adapt. Today on a personal level, we are quite resistive and success is a very long way down the road.

How might we evolve? This evolution has to happen person by person. Bummer. Whether on ST or in the media people are taking highly purified and emotional positions seemingly in the expectation doing so makes us right. Not.

If we are to be successful each person must needs change what they say and do and examine the rules they follow. It all comes down to a decision,

How badly do you want to succeed?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Aug 6, 2016 - 08:12am PT
John M,

I think you are doing fine here.

I'm currently suffering from inflammation affecting my ability to interact with the computer, whether by hand or voice control.

I will perhaps elaborate my own particular perspective on the matter, later when I feel better, if I decide I have anything to add. You could check my comments on the Kim Carrigan Book thread. I broached the issue in some detail over on that thread, though maybe not quite as completely as I would here on your thread.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2669534/Kim-Carrigan-BOOK

Note that Kevin just constructed a decent platform which frames the position of both sides of the issue quite well and you followed up by elaborating our disposition as Yosemite locals and also highlighted our specific types of climbing achievements during the 80s. So that's working for me.

What Stannard just wrote is a fine kernel, and I believe exposes a fulcrum on the matter.

I must say climbers of today are much more likely to possess a broader perspective on choice such as he just described. But in the 1980s, as a product of the times, of generational influences, and out of convictions deeply seated in a sense of honor and style, Americans and Californians in particular were much less likely to come to JStans current depiction of an acceptance of an array of engagement styles.

We were all just beginning to work it out.

I think it is very important to understand that.

Cheers,
Roy

...........................................................



Here is a critical excerpt of my writing from the Kim Carrigan book thread I linked above:


The Valley Syndrome is emblematic of an era rife with conflict and it is also outright hilarious.

...

The Valley Syndrome in brief:

In the early/mid-1980s, the US climbing community was becoming polarized between the sport climbing scene arising in places such as Smith Rock … versus the ground-up first ascent ethos practiced in Yosemite, Eldorado Canyon, and the Shawangunks.

It wasn't until the mid/late 1980s that things really heated up. These two factions, sport and trad, struggled over new route activities in their respective areas. Much animosity arose between them, most often centered around the acceptable use of bolts for free climbing. The chief concern was about how the bolts went into the rock. For the traditionalists, bolts went in from the ground up and were employed sparingly; for sport climbers, bolts were placed from the top down and with liberal application.

True, Ray Jardine had been setting standards via hangdogging in Yosemite in the 70s but remained nearly a solitary actor. Until his chiseling and bolting of a critical passage on the free Nose of El Capitan, his tactics were generally confined to crack climbs so he wasn't imposing much in the way of rappel bolting.

While expressing their methods in Yosemite during the 1980s, sport climbers and their tactics were rebuffed by many of the Valley locals. This included not just the criticism of bolts placed from rappel, but involved shirking of FAs and FFA's via pre-inspection and hangdogging (a.k.a. working a route in sport climbing fashion, which was then frowned upon by American traditionalists and at the same time widely adopted by the Australians and most of the Europeans).

At this time Jeff Smoot wrote an article of plaintiff tone. Here he voiced his frustrated perspective as an emerging sport climber. He published his article in Climbing magazine and titled it Valley Syndrome. In it he called out the Valley locals for enforcing their old school rules of engagement. In 1986 Dimitri Barton, Ken Ariza, and Tracy Doton authored a new route to commemorate the article (tongue-in-cheek): Valley Syndrome on Apathy Buttress.

The syndrome which he ascribed to the Valley locals was one of xenophobia and protectionism: a.k.a. the Valley Syndrome. As I recall, Smoot's piece is riddled with contempt for the Valley Boys. It's a colorful article. I'd love to read it again.

Kim Carrigan followed suit with a similar article, America's Cup, in which he was highly critical of a stagnant subculture then purported to be holding the reins in Yosemite Valley. This was somewhat true (stagnation), but that's also a matter of opinion. There was a period in the early/mid 80s where a "B" team could be said to have been most vocal in Yosemite ... and, for better or worse, this is largely who Kim dealt with in terms of opposition.

Regardless, trad was the dominant mode in Yosemite and it was natural for the incumbents to uphold that tradition. Kim clashed with them. This began to change when Ron Kauk openly adopted sport climbing in the late 80s. America's Cup, like Valley Syndrome, is also a colorful article!

There were many similar skirmishes and clashes of style throughout the USA at this time. By the late 80s there were flareups of animosity between the Valley Boys themselves. Even the A-Team was torn apart. Punch outs and bolt destruction followed. It was a volatile stage in the evolution of free climbing.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 6, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
"The Valley Syndrome is a kind of creeping lethargy, a sedentary stagnation that cloaks Yosemite Valley in a shroud of complacency.
There are pockets of resistance, of course, but according to a number of recent visitors to the so-called Mecca of world rock climbing, the Valley scene is dead."

This seems to me to be a very subjective, negative put down, where there is no credit given for the good, innovative things being done in the Valley at that time. Also, there is an over emphasis the numbers game in other areas. Is a 5.13 from the top down, with liberal use of bolts more cutting edge than a 5.12 R done from the ground up?

My motto was "live and let live" but don't waste time extolling one over the other. Do what you enjoy and forget it.

The "Valley Syndrome" was real, but its expression always came through individuals. Some of the expression was mild and civil, and some of it was nasty.

I recall when Moffat did a Tuolumne 5.13 route bolting from the top down. My reaction was, "That is ordinarily not what is done around here, but as a visitor from outside, you are welcome to do it here." Correct me if I am wrong, but bolting from the top down never got excessive and became a problem there.

A part of human nature is that if someone really resists strongly, and is condescending, you may flaunt the local standards just to spite them, but if the disapproval is quiet, respectful, and non-retaliatory, you will find that the vast majority of outsiders will respect local standards. Then if a few don't, it's not a big deal.

If you look at the corruption and abuse in many sports, I am actually proud of the climbing community. Could be so much worse.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Aug 6, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
I recall when Moffat did a Tuolumne 5.13 route bolting from the top down.

Got a name for that route? I'm not remembering this.

Man, lotta words in this thread... Not even really sure what or if there is a question or theme.

Deuce has a lot of it right, a bit of it not quite right, and kingtut, I'm not sure what your deal is... I sorta wish you would just spit it out in a succinct paragraph or two.

And as I recall... guys that got "snubbed" might have just been dicks. That coin has two sides. I personally saw many guys, foreigners, Boulderites, Skinner, and even Canadians get the royal treatment from MANY Valley locals. I'm talking rides to other areas, houses to stay in, handed first ascents, and even money to fly home. I also ran into a bunch of high end dicks, Australians included, that basically got snubbed because they were as#@&%es. It may not be a climbing thing at all, and is probably a personality clash.

We've still got no names though so it is hard to say who was doing all this snubbing BITD. If I snubbed anyone, I would like to take this opportunity to say you probably deserved it. I'm honest that way.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2016 - 11:49pm PT
Nice to see some authentic discussion here, at last, notwithstanding the America's Cup thread elsewhere, that Roy pointed out.

That America's Cup line had been attempted, it was a bit dirty I recall, but was clear it had some good moves. Werner (I think, mostl likely as we oft climbed Cookie for training) and I worked the initial moves on top rope one day, after doing a few laps on Red Zinger. I don't think it was apathy that prevented any of the hardmen gave it the full go, I just think it was the fact that it had to be cleaned, probably needed a bolt in a place there was not a good stance, and the fact that it wasn't apparent that it was going to become the high-grade test piece that it's now become. Overall, I think the best free climbers of the valley were testing their mettle looking for bold, ground up routes that were ideally flashable on the FA, a lot going up in that era, also in Tuolumne.

Edit: not sure if Reid had all right here (besides mispelling my name!)--seemed like more was going on that year--maybe there was more happening in Tuolumne, like "burning down the house" on Fairview? http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12198615703/North-America-United-States-CaliforniaYosemite-Yosemite-Valley-1985

Edit2: stuff about writing.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Aug 7, 2016 - 09:59am PT
Some folks had too much downtime...

...[Click to View YouTube Video]
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Aug 7, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Do your research Tut. My opinion on the entire thing ad nauseum is in the various Wings threads. You should go read it.
aldude

climber
Monument Manor
Aug 7, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Moffat helped John establish Clash of the Titans ground up. In the spirit of international relations visiting climber Jerry got the first ascent with Bachar leading the second....First 5.13 in the Meadows!
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
If you look at that AAC trip report for 1985, there's a few long testpieces established just in that year. The Autobahn is likely 5.12, though i rated it the crux pitch 5.11+ at the time. And there's a few others.

But again, there was a small group of us picking off a lot of first one-day ascents. As you can see, these ascents (climbs like first one day ascent of Lost Arrow and Liberty Cap, formerly Solid Grade VI's) weren't even considered worth reporting by Donny, but of course once the walls-in-a-push became more widespread, retrospectively such climbs raised the ante for what was to come.

So the new long hard first ascents might have dipped, as Kevin suggests, but there was other stuff going on that wasn't on the radar.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
Seems like Coz, Kurt, Kenny, and Dave were carrying the torch on the new hard free climbs, too during that era.

Rather than put in the hard work on free FA's, I personally enjoyed for the most part doing some of the classic and not-so-classic long hard free routes multiple times with various partners and visitors, refining time and crusiness each time, routes like Freestone, Greasy but Groovy (and Shakey Flakes), the many full length R-rated 5.11 routes on higher, middle and lower Cathedral, fast records on routes like Half Dome and Sentinel (west face and C-H), Astroman about a dozen times. There was plenty to do! I'd say we were doing pretty well until Croft showed up and notched it up a bit!

But i was mostly focused on hard nailups, trying to get in a few of the big wall testpieces each season. The mainstream, including the Smoot crowd i suppose, didn't really consider big walling a serious pursuit, i guess.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Aug 7, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
It appears that a sense of insecurity regarding raw technical difficulty had worked it's way into the local mindset of the 1980s. Yea, the boys were doing truely world-class stuff, but it was neither Alpine in nature, nor pure difficult rock climbing. It was big, long, hard free climbing that had lost its traction in the larger climbing media, and the boys couldn't quietly understand their accomplishments without media recognition.

Years later the efforts of this era are clearly recognized as world-class!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Aug 7, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
One wonders how a climbing historian, say in 50 or 100 years, will view the changes in climbing over the years, and the role of climbing in Yosemite in that? We may not have enough perspective at this point to say. Jim D loves to 'poke' the Yosemite-centric who are sometimes found here, based on his very wide experience around the USA and the world, in rock climbing and alpinism. In a way, Jeff L did so also - he was more interested in alpinism, but even so most of his bigger rock routes weren't in Yosemite. John G and John S have also offered very helpful thoughts. The world of climbing is much bigger than Yosemite. There's a lot many of us don't know about what has been done elsewhere, and many of us are too invested to be objective.

Noting that all those mentioned have context that many of us don't, notwithstanding the abundance of silverbacks around here. Joe Taylor's book "Pilgrims of the Vertical" also had some interesting thoughts on the sociological aspects.

Someone remarked up thread that the ascents of Half Dome (1875) and the Lost Arrow & Chimney (1947) were the peak of Yosemite climbing, which may be overstating things. Still, the main contributions of Yosemite to world climbing and mountaineering may in future be seen as:

1. Development of modern rope belay techniques.
2. Hard steel pitons.
3. Emphasis on style, carrying forward the British (and Norwegian, and probably other) traditions.
4. Techniques and equipment for big rock walls, for the specialized types of climbing often found in Yosemite (e.g. chimneys and offwidths), and the later focus on long free routes.
5. Proselytizing the use of these techniques elsewhere in the world, and providing a crucible for the world's climbers to interact and practice.

So for a while Yosemite was the "it" climbing destination, on everyone's lips - at a time when it was more expensive to travel. But fairly quickly climbers from elsewhere assimilated, and built on what they'd learned. By the 1980s Yosemite no longer was the premier destination for rock climbers, to the extent that it ever was. In a way, it had been eaten by its young. Although it may never have been so far in the lead as was sometimes said. Is the Bonatti Pillar, done solo in the 1950s, really a "lesser" climb than say the Nose of El Capitan, done in 1958? How does the winter ascent of the Eiger Direct in 1966 compare with say the Muir Wall? Etc etc.

If you think about it another way, in terms of significant technical innovations for climbing, the USA dominated from the 1940s - 1970s, in large part due to the war and the following economic and recreation booms. But many important advances from the 1960s on were initiated outside the USA:

 Sit harnesses (Whillans may have been the first widely-available commercial version).
 The evolution of nuts, and development into wedges and hexes, which still are in use.
 Belay plates, eventually leading to belay devices, toproping, and so on. Was the first the Stitch? Do belay devices cause toproping?
 PAs and then EBs. Sorry, the RR was only suitable for wall climbing, edging, and some wide cracks. The Europeans came up with footwear and rubber that was better suited to climbing.

Some of these things may also have contributed significantly to the democratization of climbing. Hard to imagine climbing gyms and sport climbing without sit harnesses and belay devices. The increased numbers in turn generating enough commercial activity to support more R&D, and eventually to cannonball contests in Salt Lake City.

I don't have any particular thoughts about Valley climbing in the 1980s, although I was there occasionally then, mostly as a gromet. But whether the perceived and actual role of Yosemite in the world of climbing and mountaineering diminished then and later is an interesting subject.

ps When and where will the heretic-burning take place?

pps Ditto what jstan says, although we do OK cleaning up garbage and graffiti at Stawamus Chief Provincial Park. Although climbers as a group have a long way to go before they're truly sustainable.
jstan

climber
Aug 7, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
At this time Yosemite is arguably a world leader in the elimination of trash and the cooperation of climbers with other citizens to that end. Yosemite has never been more exciting than it is now.

120 is the longest and most difficult route I have ever been on.

Edit:
Jim: Have you read the title to this thread?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 11, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
I could be wrong, but I don't believe LA Chimney was a free route when it was put up in 1947.

But how about some props for the unsung 80's player who onsight soloed it? He posts here as eeyonkee. His only aid was a copy of the Myth of Sisyphus, that he brought along in case he had to wait.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Aug 11, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
Kevin touched on it.......Southern Belle is the apogee and culmination, the top of the arc, for me as to what Yosemite is and was. No other climb better represents Yosemite's style, ethics, etc. A definition of what 'hard' is became cloudy with the onset of techiniques used to discover a more physical way to climb. Numbers rose in that realm but not, to my mind in the mental game...Carignan and Moffet both climbed hard trad but nothing like the Belle and thus the blurring of grades...The Pheonix is 5.13, the Belle 5.12D and yet which is the truly harder climb? One has since been soloed and that same soloist is one of four or six people to make it to the top of the Belle on a rope. For me the Yosemite climbing experience represents a much more humanistic climbing experience in both mind and body that resonates to this day.

Different games!

The onset of sport climbing simply took the light and shone it somewhere else and many Valley climbers from the 80's went with it: Kenny, Kurt, Coz, Schnieder, et.al. were on board and went on to shine there as well. But to say the Valley was lagging behind is a view held by those seeing it from the perspective of those different games. Climbs like the Belle and The Black Rose (both rated far below the current sport grades of 5.15+) represent a very different sort of 'hard' and few were and are up to them. But it's human nature to favor ones own game when, in fact climbing is composed of many different facets, all of which have merit in the eyes of their beholders....
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Aug 15, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
Tut....Agree and love the old climbs. For me the adventure (as Warbler has pointedly pointed out in paraphrase) was when Higgins and Kamps et al started the face game without aid....Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. And right, the Belle was a result of the way it progressed in Yosemite. The eighties brought along a much different game, largely played outside Yosemite. One that proved to be (so far) much more palatable to the masses (no judgement, just fact) and that popularity, along with the human trait to put popularity above all else, took focus away from a other games (Yosemite included). I still believe Yosemite offers cutting edge climbing in the form unique to it - how can it not? Just fewer players. Thus the eighties were an very important turning point. The Belle didn't get climbed by the superstars of other games but Schultz and Cos were certainly on the same plane in there game as the Moffet's and Carigan's were in theirs and may be unsurpassed to this day in their genre so to speak. What interests me is how society of the day informs these games. It get's touched on but most of us are hard pressed to look outside our own boxes.....
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Aug 15, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Tut,
Quote Read up on those old routes, I think they are truly eye opening...5 days and nights in the LA Chimney...with 12 carabiners and 18 pitons that Salathe made himself (the only hard pitons in the world)

The Euros had this type of climbing going on at the beginning of the 1900s, their perspective towards was likely to collide with the American ideas of difficulty.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Aug 16, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
Tut, the real amazing climbing was the pure rock stuff in Austria and the Dolomites. You are right about how Yosemite had different challenges.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2016 - 11:17pm PT
Might have some relevance to the thread--Yosemite as a training ground....
http://www.climbskibouldermagazine.com/john-middendorf-s-iconic-ascent-of-the-east-face-of-the-great-trango-tower.html
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Sep 14, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
^^^
The interview which John linked in the above post is definitely worth a read.

Here is the arc: Yosemite in the 1980s as a training ground for the greater ranges was a concept that was alive and well, and robust. And it culminated in The Grand Voyage.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Sep 14, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
The Grand Voyage, also here:
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/Grand.html


... And I'm pretty sure "Toto" a.k.a. Xaver Bongard wrote an article for one of the magazines?

IIRC it was quite well done and featured a spread photograph of El Capitan reflected in the waters of the Merced? ... Or floodwaters in El Cap Meadow?

(Steel Monkey? You got that one?)

Here is Toto's version as posted on John's website:
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/XGrand.html
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Sep 14, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
LA Chimney was totally a new standard of commitment and technical difficulty and innovation for the time

As I recall reading and hearing about it, the hardened piton gear was new, the technique of the cleaner jugging (prusiking) the rope was new, hauling the pack (and not wearing it) was new, and spending that many days on a pure rock route was new.

It was America's first Grade V big wall route. The first Grade VI didn't get done until Half Dome, in 1957, or 1958.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Sep 14, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
Sorry, kingtut - missed your question.

Lost Arrow Chimney, and Spire, were originally largely aid climbs. The chimney wasn't freed until the 1960s. By the standards of the late 1940s, it was an impressive climb, but equally impressive things were being done in places like the Dolomites - although admittedly not with the key innovation of hard steel pitons.

Anderson's ascent of Half Dome was sui generis - no one did anything remotely like it until perhaps the 1910s, more likely the 1930s or later. That is, use of a bolt ladder to ascend - although IIRC Anderson's line can now largely be freed, and there are some cracks for pitons, which didn't exist in California in 1875.

It's probably too subjective a question to ask here, and too many are invested in the answer(s). But parochial propaganda aside, was Yosemite really the centre of the (rock) climbing universe from the late 1950s on, or has it simply been in a leading position from time to time since then?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Sep 15, 2016 - 01:29am PT
was Yosemite really the centre of the (rock) climbing universe from the late 1950s on, or has it simply been in a leading position from time to time since then

Some people like to say that other places, like, say, the Shawangunks, have held the title, from time to time.

But, I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that Yosemite was where modern big-wall climbing was established and mastered. It is not a coincidence that Kim Schmitz, a Yosemite master, pioneered doing big walls in the Karakoram regime.

Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Sep 15, 2016 - 01:59am PT
'was Yosemite really the centre of the (rock) climbing universe from the late 1950s on, or has it simply been in a leading position from time to time since then'..

It's been alluded to, but if you have any knowledge of European climbing in Austria and the Dolomites, then you would know the answer. Climbs of the same level of difficulty and commitment as the LA chimneys were being done in the 1930s, with poorer equipment.

Undoubtedly Yosemite's pioneers developed a range of techniques that have been adopted around the world, but I doubt they were any more 'bold' at the time.

IMHO the Valley's great contribution was in opening the climbing worlds eyes to the fact that such huge, steep and seemingly blank walls could be climbed.

Steve
jstan

climber
Sep 15, 2016 - 07:49am PT
If it were possible for one person or area to be the center, what a poor experience that would be.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
Thanks for the good words, Roy! Hope to reconnect with you soon. Really appreciate your objective recollections of the era, and of course the rare photos you captured of the era. Looking forward to more of your writing! Cheers
BigB

Trad climber
Red Rock
Sep 15, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
^^its def the mecca
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Sep 15, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Warbs, the Dolomites have attracted foreign climbers for a century...

... Yosemite was different because it was big granite.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Sep 15, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
Warbs, my hunch is that our experience in America is based on what we have learned in in English. The stories in German and Italian have rarely been translated. I received the Austrian and Dolomite history from a climbing buddy from Austria that caused me to do some research about the old climbs there. Jeezum, those guys were good. What Robbins started doing in So.Cal just begins to match what these guys were doing in the early-1900s.

Smells Field gained its rep because of the English speaking climbers there and Mountain Mag. In Cham I got to learn what the Czechs and the Poles were doing in their climbing regions indicated a crazy level of skills. These stories took many hours to extract from these remarkable climbers.

What you were doing in Yosemite during the 1970s was playing out throughout the climbing world. The best young climbers everywhere tearing apart the rules of reason and possibility!
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
An article I wrote for Ascent 15 years ago....
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/mechadv/index.html
The Wilder Kaiser range also a place of origin along with Dolomites.

Yosemite definitely key to the evolution!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jun 6, 2018 - 11:12pm PT
Dimitri Barton
I was looking up something in the Yellow Pages and notice he has a tree trimming business in Bishop.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 18, 2019 - 04:54pm PT
fascinating tread. too many comments erased by moderators [ like Warbler is gone] or self inflicted deletions .
good that days of "Valley syndrome " is over forever
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jan 18, 2019 - 05:17pm PT
Alexey!!!
Dude: Tarbuster to the rescue.

I saved it to PDF in 2017, so I have all of Warbler's posts and can toss them in at the end when I get around to it.
Thanks for reminding me.

I also have Tami's posts, but per her wishes, they will remain archived for the time being.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 19, 2019 - 08:03am PT
Tarbuster thank you again. I found so many interesting Warbler's post are missing. I really think is so bad method to completely erase someone.
Another tread where he posted about Tales of Power. Can you restore his posts? there exchange of how Tales was first found before climbed.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=793270&tn=0&mr=0
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jan 19, 2019 - 12:03pm PT
Good news, Alexey: I didn't have it in PDF, but it's in the way back machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20171013050639/http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=793270&tn=0&mr=0
(You must copy and paste the entire link above into your browser to see it)

I just added it to my list of chores, to repatriate his posts in the actual thread, of course at the end, as is the only way.

Since Kevin constitutes a "missing player" – let's just create a list right here in this thread for anything else you might think of which he contributed to, in terms of climing content only?
(I think it best NOT to start an independent thread for this purpose)

Here's my current list:

Warbler appreciation thread (done)
Welcome to Kevin Worrall (in progress)
What Is Trad????
The 1980s. The missing history. Players.
Josh Space Station
Space Stations
How to find the space station in J Tree
Mother Earth – stories and photos from the first ascent
Tales of Power
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 19, 2019 - 12:50pm PT
The Pheonix is 5.13, the Belle 5.12D and yet which is the truly harder climb?

Leo Houlding assured me he thought the crux pitch of Southern Belle was 13a, and then remember there is literally a 100' 12a runout after the last bolt. Splitting hairs a bit? Maybe. It would seem that The Phoenix is a bitchin' climb, the 5th pitch of the Southern Belle is a full on religious experience, imo.

Caylor
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