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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 9, 2014 - 06:00am PT
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Yeah, this could become a Polititard thread, but I decided to bring a few observations I've been making on my current jaunt in Europe to the table.
What's really triggered this is the pitiful condition of most American Highways and Bridges. We as Americans have always been proud of the system of highways and roads, but anyone driving across Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Nevada, and California will see what I'm talking about immediately. Well...maybe not, but a comparison of the Western USA highway system to the German Autobahns and Italian Autostradas certainly brought home the deplorable condition of our now seriously aging infrastructure.
Another observation is what is causing our roads and associated bridges to be in this condition: mostly over-the-road tractor trailer trucking, the boys with the 18 wheelers. Now is where and how this gets "Political!" How TF are "we" going to pay for fixing the damage? The answer was dumped right in front of me in both Austria and Italy: Toll charges on the Autobahns. They aren't too terrible for passenger cars or SUVs, but this way the real users get hit with the expense of PROPER maintenance. Since the "Big Boys" are using the roads and bridges to generate revenue for the truck lines, they need to pay a bigger share of the overall bill. This seems a lot more palatable than the recent Oregon "track your vehicle by GPS" intrusion on everyone's personal privacy. The way the Autostradas in the Italian Dolomites have been constructed, they are sure one schittload "environmentally friendly" than all the Earthmoving done in the USA by bulldozer and with the accompanying "scalping" of the adjacent lands.
This is just a "thought for the day."
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 06:20am PT
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DMT-
I never once mentioned privatization of the highway system, just raised an alternative method of financing it. There's a long history of toll roads in the USA: Pennsylvania Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike, Kansas Turnpike, Colorado E-470, Denver-Boulder Turnpike (Now U.S. 36).
This way the excess revenue generated goes towards maintenance of the secondary road system Gasoline taxes aren't getting the job done, that's for sure.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 06:34am PT
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What I'm suggesting has nothing to do with political parties, only a method of funding. Funding is what kills everything in the political morass of the Federal Government. What I'm suggesting is a self-sustaining and apolitical approach. No tax money involved, just get the task accomplished.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 06:43am PT
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I am already paying for highway maintenance through a variety of tax vehicles...
Are you "getting your money's worth?"
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Where I grew up in Europe, there is a bridge, built about 1589, it was repaired and widened in 1815, and to this day has no weight restrictions for vehicles of any kind.
Five miles from here there is a bridge, built in 1935 that been closed to all vehicular and even pedestrian use since 2010. I recently paddled under this bridge and was genuinely concerned for my safety.
We get what we pay for. Nobody wants to pay.
TE
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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But for the most part, I am already paying for highway maintenance through a variety of tax vehicles. Not really interested in adding to the price tag because the politicians diverted the funds for stupid things.
DMT
His point is that with gas taxes we're paying far more than our proportional share of the wear and tear on the highways. Of course, getting heavy vehicles to pay their fair share will pass those costs on to us too, but slightly more fairly. What he's forgetting is that the trucking and retail industries have far deeper lobbying pockets than we do.
TE
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 07:20am PT
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They also add taxes to gasoline that have no relationship to highways. Wyoming had a recent gas tax increase and none of the $$$ went to roads.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Driving across Colorado right now you are going from one patch job to the other...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 08:02am PT
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Even though Wyoming is doing a lot of work on I-80, almost constantly, it's still crumbling under the traffic from the 18 wheelers. Ditto that, to a slightly lesser extent for I-25 North from Denver into Billings.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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It's simple. Feds need to legalize the herb.
Pot for potholes!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 08:18am PT
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In response, I just bought a new automobile in Germany for this trip, since I'm staying a month (save on car rentals). I was able to put the hammer down on the throttle between Rothenburg o/d Tauber and Munich on Autobahn A8, in full compliance with the existing speed limits on a road so good it didn't make me slightly nervous. There isn't a stretch of highway that I've seen in the USA where I'd feel like doing 200 kph (128 mph) for 5 miles as I did. Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah now have an 80 mph limit, but the roads are only marginally good enough to do it safely. Nevada may have the new limit, as well.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Yes, Broke, but you fail to note that Germans and even Italians actually know
how to drive and obey the traffic laws. It costs like $5K to get a driver's
license in Deutschland. I'm currently doing a study on how much poor drivers
in America cost the economy; it is staggering. Those phuktards doing 55 in
the fast lane are an Economic Menace as well as royal PITA's.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 08:28am PT
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You're absolutely correct there, Reilly. Another factor is the absolute absence of "junkers" on the road the way we see old rusted-out POS cars on the American highways.
According to the NTSB, the driver causing the greatest number of accidents is usually driving ~ 5 mph slower than the traffic flow. Car won't go fast enough? Cataracts and can't see? Just "the way they drive?" Who knows?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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FM-
I drove on "his" roads over 50 years ago, and the new Autobahnen bear NO resemblance to the old ones. And nobody has slowed down since I was here in the Army, either!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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We are also lagging in broadband (we pay the most for the slowest service), transportation, healthcare and many of our airports are embarrassments.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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The roads are not great in Ca. Europeans have better infrastructure and better education because they are willing to pay for it.
Sorry Brokedown but it is poltical.....there is a party out there whose members want lower and lower taxes so that they can enjoy the waning days before the coming Rapture.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 08:49am PT
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^^^^^^
Not a chance. (Re: FM's post)
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Yes, we would rather bomb other countries into oblivion only to build them back up again than work on our own infrastructure.
I love how the republican't congress loves to talk about infrastructure building etc., except when it comes to this country.
Don't expect things to change.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 09:08am PT
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The point I was originally trying to make: the Autostrada system is entirely self-sustaining, and doesn't depend on "which political party is in power." Which is all to the good, since it takes "pork" out of the politicians' hands. That means Derf (sorry about that, Dr.F.--too good to let that one pass!), wouldn't need to get his knickers in a twist about the subject. The real problem as I stated early on is the rise and fall of available funding for this particular infrastructure--which is essential. It also would infuriate the Over the Road trucking industry by making them pay a more equitable portion of the damage done by their use (abuse?) of the network.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 09:16am PT
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The damage done by the trucking industry is no where more apparent than I-80 across the state of Wyoming, from Cheyenne to Evanston. The highway is crumbling from the sheer numbers of axles passing over it a day. No, I don't have numbers, before you ask.
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