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Messages 321 - 340 of total 1819 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Sep 2, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
Alright, this is getting to be too much.

Neither of these videos, from what I hear, shows the whole beheading the whole way through, without cuts.

There have been other videos of behadings, I think the other one I saw was linked up on supertopo, that show the whole gory business, all the way through, so there can be no mistake. This sh!t is BS!

Have you noticed the verbage used by the mainstream media: "Video shows the apparent beheading"; "Video purportedly shows the beheading . . . "

In other words we have no proof!!!!!!

Oh, I'm sorry, did they deliver Folley's body, so we can verify.

Yeah right

Where are all the debunkers, now???
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 2, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
But back to Iraq...

ISIS is good at sweeping into to power vacuum, in a Sunni region no less, and that has 'stunned the world'. Really? Their success there is a surprise - to anyone? Now everyone's all a-jitter about The Caliphate (TM), but don't look for that to extend much further than their home turf - a land full of a butt-hurt religious minority who's been itching to regain a bit of clout since their 2003 emasculation.

There seems to be some sense that Al Qaeda is magically going to re-constitute into some harmonious, world wide threat to the entire region, rather than the squabbling constellation of competing colloquial warlords it really is. This ain't the Wermacht we're talking about here - this is the mafia with a cell phone video camera. Pretty effective tool at reviving the Islam Against the Free World meme - always helpful when trying to enact the kind of wise foreign policy that won't actually blow our own faces off and a whole bunch of regional locals along with them.

Sure, life in Baghdad is going to (continue to) suck with bombings - like it has since 2003.

That's hardly a reason for a Let's Roll Redux, however.

Not that that didn't work out really, really well or anything.

Oh, and I'm sure midterms have NOTHING to do with the rhetoric flying around the country right now. No, that could never happen.



WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
Reeotch gets it.

Apparently Foley was beheaded a year ago but there still is no proof.

Professional expert video analysis rendered huge doubts to its authenticity with their conclusion its fake.

Foley has history with the CIA.

There's way more ......
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 2, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
Americans (sans me) are watching beheading videos - "the HORROR!", Jihaddis are watching drone beheading videos "الرعب!" - and each side is rebel yelling and ululating in response. After all, that's what street theatre is for. Should such isolated nastiness, disturbing as it may be, cause the United States to check it's brain at the door and go full metal jacket (uh-gain) on the region's ass?

While DMT may be running to his nearest recruiting office to get an age waiver, the answer is, of course, no.

A video is not a threat to national or regional security.

When one analyses ISIS history, capabilities - and all the local forces, political and military, that keep it in check - the answer seems to be that it is a highly localized threat that has capitalized on a highly localized political and military vacuum in the Sunni Triangle.

By all means, eye your local neighborhood mosque with suspicion as your time allows - everyone needs a hobby, but suddenly subscribing to McMoron's standard alarmist schtick - the very thing that destabilized Iraq in the first place, doesn't seem to me to be exactly the most well-thought out, effective course of action here.

As for suit case bombs - well, that's a threat, sure, but one that doesn't have much to do with the conflict at hand, here. If memory serves, Iran doesn't yet have a bomb, but if it does - I don't think ISIS presents toooo much of an invasion threat there. Iran and North Korea are going to do what they're going to do regardless of whether ISIS exists. In other words, that's a very different problem to solve.

The administration should continue to keep its own head on and continue to work the problem in a way that won't, as has so often been the case - make the regional situation worse.

Iraq either needs to give ISIS a good talking to, contain it, fold it in politically (using a little cartel breaking strategy, perhaps, or a combination of all of the above. Sunni disenfranchisement is at the heart of all this - and that's not going to go away if it's not addressed somehow. This will probably involve developing more alliances, regionally and further afield. A local solution will have more staying power than another US get in/get out adventure. Perhaps ISIS has provided the street theatre necessary to make this actually happen. Al-Maliki's finally excising himself in reaction - providing a more fertile environment for this to happen.

crankster

Trad climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 05:08pm PT
Apparently Foley was beheaded a year ago but there still is no proof.

Professional expert video analysis rendered huge doubts to its authenticity with their conclusion its fake.

Foley has history with the CIA.

There's way more ......
photo not found
Missing photo ID#375765
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 2, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
The reality of Let's Roll (kick the bad guys asses!) is that local folks often wind up taking in the shorts. If they are perceived to be collaborating with the White Hats, the Black Hats get 'em. And vice versa. In the end, enough tragedy and resentment can be built up to set the region up for the next conflict.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 2, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
A long interview with an Iraqi.

http://foreign-intrigue.com/2014/09/voices-from-the-front-2/
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2014 - 06:45pm PT
The reality of Let's Roll (kick the bad guys asses!) is that local folks often wind up taking in the shorts. If they are perceived to be collaborating with the White Hats, the Black Hats get 'em. And vice versa. In the end, enough tragedy and resentment can be built up to set the region up for the next conflict.


A lot of equivocating going on here, and deflection.

While I will grant you that the videos posted recently never actually show the active deaths of the 2 reporters, lets keep sh#t real.

These mother-f*#kers executed many Yazidis and Christians and Iraqi regular Army. That's only in Iraq!

In Syria they did just as much, setting up 'meathouses' where they dismembered people limb by limb. I can provide the links if you're willing.

Denying that we're dealing with monsters is naive. Putin should be the least of our current worries. We have really bad actors coming after us, and they have proven that they want to kill us.

Wake up. Shut down the southern border or there will be hell to pay. They are already trying to exploit it.

I think I have a link here somewhere...
http://www.judicialwatch.org/bulletins/imminent-terrorist-attack-warning-feds-us-border/

johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
^^^^^^

hahahahaha
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
We are certainly dealing with monsters Bluey... monsters we made and continue to support.

The MSM drivel is so bad now it's almost cartoonish.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
Monsters at our borders, next we'll have monsters under our beds.
God help us. We need bigger walls around us to keep us safe.


crankster

Trad climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Read this. It makes sense.

Ready, Aim, Fire. Not Fire, Ready, Aim.
SEPT. 2, 2014

Thomas L. Friedman
President Obama has been excoriated for declaring that “we don’t have a strategy yet” for effectively confronting the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS. In criticizing Obama for taking too much time, Representative Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told “Fox News Sunday” that “this ‘don’t-do-stupid-stuff’ policy isn’t working.” That sounded odd to my ear — like we should just bomb somebody, even if it is stupid. If Obama did that, what would he be ignoring?

First, experience. After 9/11 that sort of “fire, ready, aim” approach led George W. Bush to order a ground war in Iraq without sufficient troops to control the country, without a true grasp of Iraq’s Shiite-Sunni sectarian dynamics, and without any realization that, in destroying the Sunni Taliban regime in Afghanistan and the Sunni Baathist regime in Iraq, we were destroying both of Iran’s mortal enemies and thereby opening the way for a vast expansion of Iran’s regional influence. We were in a hurry, myself included, to change things after 9/11, and when you’re in a hurry you ignore complexities that come back to haunt you later.

There are no words to describe the vileness of the video beheadings of two American journalists by ISIS, but I have no doubt that they’re meant to get us to overreact, à la 9/11, and rush off again without a strategy. ISIS is awful, but it is not a threat to America’s homeland.

Second, the context. To defeat ISIS you have to address the context out of which it emerged. And that is the three civil wars raging in the Arab world today: the civil war within Sunni Islam between radical jihadists and moderate mainstream Sunni Muslims and regimes; the civil war across the region between Sunnis funded by Saudi Arabia and Shiites funded by Iran; and the civil war between Sunni jihadists and all other minorities in the region — Yazidis, Turkmen, Kurds, Christians, Jews and Alawites.

When you have a region beset by that many civil wars at once, it means there is no center, only sides. And when you intervene in the middle of a region with no center, you very quickly become a side.

ISIS emerged as an extreme expression of resentment by one side: Iraqi and Syrian Sunnis who felt cut out of power and resources by the pro-Iranian Shiite regime in Baghdad and the pro-Iranian Alawite/Shiite regime in Damascus. That is why Obama keeps insisting that America’s military intervention must be accompanied, for starters, by Iraqis producing a national unity government — of mainstream Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds — so our use of force supports pluralism and power-sharing, not just Shiite power.

But power-sharing doesn’t come easy in a region where kinship and sectarian loyalties overwhelm any sense of shared citizenship. Without it, though, the dominant philosophy is either: “I am strong, why should I compromise?” or “I am weak, how can I compromise?” So any onslaught we make on ISIS, absent national unity governments, will have Shiites saying the former and Sunnis saying the latter. That’s why this is complicated.

And this is a sectarian power struggle. Consider a Times article last week about how ISIS is actually being led by a combination of jihadists and disgruntled Sunni Iraqi Baathist Army officers, who were shoved aside either by us or Iraq’s Shiite-dominated governments.

The Times article noted: “After ISIS stormed into Mosul, one [Shiite] Iraqi official recalled a startling phone call from a [Sunni] former major general in one of [Saddam] Hussein’s elite forces. The former general had appealed months earlier to rejoin the Iraqi Army, but the official had refused. Now the [Sunni] general was fighting for ISIS and threatened revenge. ‘We will reach you soon, and I will chop you into pieces,’ he said, according to the official, Bikhtiyar al-Qadi, of the commission that bars some former members of Mr. Hussein’s Baath Party from government posts.”

Repeat after me: “We will reach you soon, and I will chop you into pieces.” That is what we are dealing with here — multiple, venomous civil wars that are the breeding ground of the ISIS cancer.

Third, our allies are not fully allies: While the Saudi, Qatari and Kuwaiti governments are pro-American, wealthy Sunni individuals, mosques and charities in these countries are huge sources of funds, and fighters, for ISIS.

As for Iran, if we defeat ISIS, it would be the third time since 2001 that we’ve defeated a key Sunni counterbalance to Iran — first the Taliban, then Saddam, now ISIS. That is not a reason not to do it, but it is reason to do it in a way that does not distract us from the fact that Iran’s nuclear program also needs to be defused, otherwise it could undermine the whole global nonproliferation regime. Tricky.

I’m all-in on destroying ISIS. It is a sick, destabilizing movement. I support using U.S. air power and special forces to root it out, but only as part of a coalition, where everybody who has a stake in stability there pays their share and where mainstream Sunnis and Shiites take the lead by demonstrating that they hate ISIS more than they hate each other. Otherwise, we’ll end up in the middle of a God-awful mess of duplicitous allies and sectarian passions, and nothing good we do will last.
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
^^^^. That's a good article, crankster

As usual, the situation there is an unimaginable mess, 5 years from now we might have to use ISIS to help fight a group that's ten times worse, if you can imagine that

Making a move right left up or down just stirs up a giant fuked up hornets nest

But maybe a few innocents can be saved ...without the quagmire effects




WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Tom Friedman is the same nutcase as the nutcase Crankcase.

http://consortiumnews.com/2013/04/10/the-madness-of-nyts-tom-friedman/

The guy is a total neocon tool just like the stupid snake Crankcase .....
scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:41pm PT
Yeah, I guess everyone now realizes that invading Iraq was...not a good idea
crankster

Trad climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
Werner, hand the computer to one of the other patients and get back to your room. It's lights out time, don't let the nurse catch you up.
WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
Nothing will work for you as you just keep reinforcing the nutcase you really are .....
crankster

Trad climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 10:14pm PT
Go to sleep, Werner. You've got a big day of therapy sessions tomorrow.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#375810
WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
Yeah you're right.

You're too stupid to even be a neocon.

Just plain stupid nutcase period ....
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 2, 2014 - 11:51pm PT
Yes, ISIS is an unkillable army of 100' tall monsters. They eat bullets and sh#t RPGs. They will take Iran in an hour - then they'll be 1000' tall and emit gamma rays from their eyeballs.

The best thing any of us can do now is apply for a mid level management position with them so when they get here, which will be next week or so, they won't wear our heads like hats for Holloween.

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