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Caeneus
Big Wall climber
Eureka, Ca
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Perhaps all y'all need to get out into the fresh air and give your keyboards a rest.
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crankster
Trad climber
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We created ISIS?? Why would anyone believe an idiotic thing like that?
Simple minds drift towards simple explanations, I suppose.
Again:
To defeat ISIS you have to address the context out of which it emerged. And that is the three civil wars raging in the Arab world today: the civil war within Sunni Islam between radical jihadists and moderate mainstream Sunni Muslims and regimes; the civil war across the region between Sunnis funded by Saudi Arabia and Shiites funded by Iran; and the civil war between Sunni jihadists and all other minorities in the region — Yazidis, Turkmen, Kurds, Christians, Jews and Alawites.
When you have a region beset by that many civil wars at once, it means there is no center, only sides. And when you intervene in the middle of a region with no center, you very quickly become a side.
ISIS emerged as an extreme expression of resentment by one side: Iraqi and Syrian Sunnis who felt cut out of power and resources by the pro-Iranian Shiite regime in Baghdad and the pro-Iranian Alawite/Shiite regime in Damascus. That is why Obama keeps insisting that America’s military intervention must be accompanied, for starters, by Iraqis producing a national unity government — of mainstream Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds — so our use of force supports pluralism and power-sharing, not just Shiite power.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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One or two out of 100 of you climber-philosophizers might know who Scott Atran is - you might even know he's been at odds with the likes of Sam Harris (at least since 2006) who's also written pieces since 9/11 over just what motivates young people of Islam (esp males) to take to jihad. Anyways, here's a piece just yesterday in the Guardian from Atran that one or two of you might find interesting or insightful.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/jihad-fatal-attraction-challenge-democracies-isis-barbarism?CMP=twt_gu
"what inspires the most lethal terrorists in the world today is not so much the Qur’an or religious teachings as a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends."
"Volunteers for Isis are surfing for the sublime and all that is lacking in the jaded, tired world of democratic liberalism, especially on the margins where Europe’s immigrants mostly live."
.....
quest for glory
quest for meaning, purpose
quest for the sublime
quest for belonging
Not as hard for the alpha male in any community or tribe, you'll note. (Yet how little this aspect of it - the angst, discontent, restlessness, impulse instinct or interest of subalpha males to stir the pot, etc. - is ever mentioned.)
"Is our ideal now merely one of “ease, security, and avoidance of pain”, as Orwell surmised in explaining why Nazism, fascism and Stalinism had such a strong pull on engagement and commitment, especially among adventurous youth? For the future of liberal democracies, even beyond the threat from violent jihadis, this may be the core existential issue."
What a person (eg, a young adventurous male) makes of meaning or purpose can be such a strong function of where he sees himself on the totem pole of haves and havenots. If he sees himself on the bottom, he's likely restless and his likely ambition is to move up. Esp being the social creature he is, the social creatures we are.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Fire missiles in all directions! We'll hit someone!
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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If I were a useless puppet/anchorman like 'Bama in this situation I'd be golfing as much as I could too. Why not?
Oh to be a fly on the wall in that den of Evil in D.C.....
He seems to be a man of average intelligence which, in contrast to the last retarded puppet, makes him seem like a genius. Hell, this one can even clearly read the script he's handed.
I think in the beginning, 'Bama the man perhaps really had good intentions. Perhaps he got the special screening of the Zapruder film. But now with things spiraling out of control I almost pity him. Not enough not to charge him with treason too but I wonder if it's always been an act or if he did have good intent in the beginning. His eyes seem weary.
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crankster
Trad climber
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His name is Barack Obama. Have some respect.
Easy job, huh? You think Mitt would he cruising along, defeating the evil doers?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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His name is Barack Obama. Have some respect.
I have always referred to him by his name, or by his office (i.e. The President). I wonder how many people who are rankled by belittling of Barak Obama engaged in doing the same thing to George W. Bush.
John
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crankster
Trad climber
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Might be true for some. I called him Bush. I think the vitriol for this president is unprecedented.
Racial and extreme right ideology fueled. Mostly.
But it's not even close to what Bush got. Not by a mile.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Chief...I knew a Navy guy that worked one of the joy sticks....he said it messed him up ...I think he may have been on heli rescue also..?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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The Chief...The difference between the joy stick jockey and the F-18 jockey is that the Happy Meal ends up all over the cockpit canopy and McDonalds won't allow uniformed men in the Play Land..Have you heard about the new Air Force skirts...? They allow you to see the cockpit...rj
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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TGT...The ISIS terrorists are afraid of being killed by women guerillas....? Tough guys eh..?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I'm pretty sure most members of ISIS haven't read Christopher Hitchins.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jim's got it right.
Atrocity isn't committed by an ism - it's committed by individuals.
What is the message embedded within claiming that Islam is the religion of violence? What's the recommended action there? Extermination of all Muslims? I think that one's been tried a few times with mixed results.
After a decade of failure and destabilization in the region, does anyone really believe we're going to just swagger in and get it right this time? Has ISIS agreed to assemble into a tidy phalanx, far from any urban center, so we can open up a can of High Noon on them?
This is a sectarian civil war. Good luck tucking into that.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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You two clowns deserve each other. Just what crazy ass assumptions are you making? I've read nobody on any post on this thread (barring the Chief, I don't read his posts nor the neocons'posts) suggesting the West bomb the Muslims or even ISIS communities. Although Biden last week said we'd chase em to the Gates of Hell.
Purile rubes, lol!
PS JB, learn some science. An antiscience attitude is just so... unbecoming... in the 21st century. And regarding bigots or bigotry (a term which derives from "by God" by the way) this is religion's specialty. Since I am not Abrahamic - Jewish, Christian or Muslim - the term applied to us "science types" is ludicrous. You can find a better one if youre intent on (drunkish or drunk-like late night) name-calling.
Further, if you can't stand the heat regarding such subjects as evolution, living up to a science education, exploring the implications of free will as an "illusion" etc etc etc, - i'd suggest not engaging in those threads addressing them. Simple as that. ;)
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