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Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 26, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
Bluering is evil. He glories in the idea of killing. He glories in the idea of people making poverty wages. It seems like he sold his soul for the love of money and power. Disgusting soul.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 26, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
Bluering is evil. He glories in the idea of killing. He glories in the idea of people making poverty wages. It seems like he sold his soul for the love of money and power. Disgusting soul.


Keep telling yourself that if that's your prerogative. Aren't you of the mindset for protecting minorities and their wage disparities?

Does illegal immigration help or hinder those minorities here legally, whether black, asian, or hispanic?

Do you hate legal minorities?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 27, 2014 - 12:41am PT
It seems like you frequently use the "will you send your children" approach when foreign entanglements are discussed. Why? Under what circumstances do you think we should use troops overseas?

My take is I don't need to offer up my children because my taxes help maintain our military, which has mostly fought overseas for the last century. Based on our history, it's likely that military action will not be on US soil. So, what's your beef with considering fighting overseas?

Don't ask others to do what you would not. Do not sacrifice American teenagers, so that you can keep your own teenagers close.

somewhere in there is the basis of what patriotism is about. It is not an accident that many US general officer's children join the military. As did Truman's in a time of war, Eisenhower's in a time of war, Powell's in a time of war.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Aug 27, 2014 - 06:40am PT
^^^ What he said.

Don't ask others to do what you would not. Do not sacrifice American teenagers, so that you can keep your own teenagers close.

somewhere in there is the basis of what patriotism is about. It is not an accident that many US general officer's children join the military. As did Trueman's in a time of war, Eisenhower's in a time of war, Powell's in a time of war.

DMT
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 27, 2014 - 07:38am PT
Bluey and TGT should get their crusade on. Stop bitching on the intardnet, drive to the airport and do themselves what they say needs to be done.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 27, 2014 - 07:41am PT
Regarding Iraq, why not The United States of Iraq (U.S.I) for those who remain interested in a unification of the three regions - esp now in order to fight back against this thug group ISIS? USI has a nice ring.

As a federation. A federation of states. Of course they would need a basic organizing principle or two or three. Democratic rule and freedom of speech could be a couple. I don't think separation of mosque and state would be a popular one.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 27, 2014 - 09:01am PT
Two of the leading voices in the Muslim world denounced the persecution of Christians in Iraq, at the hands of extremists proclaiming a caliphate under the name Islamic State.

The most explicit condemnation came from Iyad Ameen Madani, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the group representing 57 countries, and 1.4 billion Muslims.

In a statement, he officially denounced the “forced deportation under the threat of execution” of Christians, calling it a “crime that cannot be tolerated.” The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they “have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence.”

Meanwhile, Turkey’s top cleric, the spiritual successor to the caliphate under the Ottoman Empire, also touched on the topic during a peace conference of Islamic scholars.

In a not-so-veiled swipe at ISIS, Mehmet Gormez declared that “an entity that lacks legal justification has no authority to declare war against a political gathering, any country or community.” He went on to say that Muslims should not be hostile towards “people with different views, values and beliefs, and regard them as enemies.”

Gormez said death threats against non-Muslims made by the group, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), were hugely damaging. “The statement made against Christians is truly awful. Islamic scholars need to focus on this (because) an inability to peacefully sustain other faiths and cultures heralds the collapse of a civilization,” he told Reuters in an interview.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 27, 2014 - 09:18am PT
meh, too little, too late ^^^^

They're getting skeered, lol. Could be them under the knife. I hope Obama lets them twist in the wind for a few years, like we did in Iraq. So the message is pounded home for a generation.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Aug 27, 2014 - 09:22am PT
What comprises the bulk of IS? Disaffected iraqi sunni and syrian war orphans? Remnants of Saddam's army that were disbanded?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 27, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
Don't ask others to do what you would not. Do not sacrifice American teenagers, so that you can keep your own teenagers close.

This is utterly stupid. So if I want a cop to protect me, instead of calling 911, I should just take justice into my own hands. I have to become a cop to advocate that cops defend their citizens?

What about paramedics and the fire department.

This is a stupid straw-man argument because you guys have nothing else. You don't want to see ISIS obliterated by massive American firepower?

I'll flip this on you. What if your stupid pacifist policies of not executing these thugs and leaving a wide-open southern border under-defended leads to the loss of life in YOUR family.

Would that change your mind? I guarantee you that these rat-f*#ks are going to exploit our border and they want to kill us.

Our current course actually allows it to happen.

EDIT ;
What comprises the bulk of IS? Disaffected iraqi sunni and syrian war orphans? Remnants of Saddam's army that were disbanded?


That's naive. Now there are people flocking there from all over. And from Western countries.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 27, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
Tioga, rather than endlessly bitch about "western brats" why don't you quit yer bitching, and go back to whatever Sheetholistan you came from?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 27, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
...Washington’s announcement that the US government has no plans to coordinate US attacks on ISIS on Syrian territory with the Syrian government. Washington recognizes no limitations on its use of force, and the sovereignty of countries provides no inhibition.

In Washington coercion has supplanted the rule of law.

Syria has every right to be nervous. The reason ISIS is operating on Syrian territory is that Washington armed them and sent them to Syria. Washington’s air strikes on ISIS could very well be cover for air strikes on Syrian armed forces.

Here we see the complete failure of the Obama regime. As in Libya, the Obama regime set jihadists lose on Syria, pretending that they were fighting for democracy against a dictator. But Washington lost control over its monster which has gobbled up large parts of Syria and Iraq and is forming them into a new country hostile both to the West and to the Muslim vassals of the West.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/27/leninist-white-house-paul-craig-roberts/
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Aug 27, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
Ah HAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !

Steve now holds the rank of Field Marshal within the suburban confines of Santa Clara.

Hey Steve, is what the military does the same as what you feel as a commercial consumer ? Is it the same as complaining that the waiter was slow in delivering your drink when someone who actually knows what's going on doesn't start hacking up those who displease you ?

"Volunteering" is a poor excuse for what used to involve everyone and their children. It was called the draft, and your little boy was once an object of the meatgrinder whether or not you had an opinion as a parent.

So go f*#k yourself unless it's cool with you that a bunch of senators and congresspeople you've never met, think it's A-OK to take your 18 year old child and have other people you've never met shoot bullets at him.

I can't speak for him but I think this is what Dingus is talking about.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 27, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
Steve now holds the rank of Field Marshal within the suburban confines of Santa Clara.

I'd prefer an advisory role. A governed class select how the governors proceed. It's a Founding Fathers thing, those stupid fools...

Hey Steve, is what the military does the same as what you feel as a commercial consumer ? Is it the same as complaining that the waiter was slow in delivering your drink when someone who actually knows what's going on doesn't start hacking up those who displease you ?

Not sure I get this. What do you mean? The point?

"Volunteering" is a poor excuse for what used to involve everyone and their children. It was called the draft, and your little boy was once an object of the meatgrinder whether or not you had an opinion as a parent.

So go f*#k yourself unless it's cool with you that a bunch of senators and congresspeople you've never met, think it's A-OK to take your 18 year old child and have other people you've never met shoot bullets at him.

I can't speak for him but I think this is what Dingus is talking about.

Living in the past, uh? Or should i say, "stuck in the past".

There is no draft, so what is the f*#king relevance. Everybody is volunteer now, and they know damn well the relevance of signing up. We are in a global conflict, and have been for over 15 years.

Your arguments are weak at best.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Aug 27, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
As for weak arguments, there is a weakness in a lot of people regarding the true difference between what is presently called a voluntary military and what used to involve conscription. The fact is that it's the same people from the same places that go and do your dirty work for you.

This is old ground involving your privileged opinions and love of patriotism without having much to do with it personally.

Steve, you actually posted about your duty being part of the production end of the effort to defend peace and democracy. Then later, you went on about how tough it is to make a buck by repairing guitar amplifiers.

Huh ?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 27, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
The fact is that it's the same people from the same places that go and do your dirty work for you.

There might be some folks here old enough to remember where this began...

"Put a nigger behind the trigger and send him off to 'Nam"
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 28, 2014 - 12:00am PT
Truman's daughter fought in Korea?

Oops! That was my error. It was actually Truman himself who had to repeatedly try to join the army, as he was medically exempt.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 28, 2014 - 03:44am PT
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Aug 28, 2014 - 06:52am PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world/middleeast/army-know-how-seen-as-factor-in-isis-successes.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

Looks to me like there are a lot of ex-Baathist members wreaking havoc in Iraq, Westerners and foreigners aside. Naive? Don't think so.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Aug 28, 2014 - 07:13am PT
Our current military is all volunteer. They all chose to join, which means they chose to do whatever dirty work was asked.

Yes its like hiring a plumber. Has all the same commitment too, citizen.

DMT
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