Why U.S. Elected Representatives are wrong about everything.

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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 6, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
Nevertheless, the only source of monetary value is labor. Diamonds and all the gold in the world are worthless pieces of earth, without labor. No part of civilization exists without it. No part of civilization gets built without it. No diamond, gold, oil or even grazing grass for (human manufactured, with LABOR) cows without labor. You can't even print money without it, much less distribute it.

Money is a promise of work. Nothing more.

DMT


Spoken like a true world-workers member. Does this apply to intellectual property too, ideas?

What about trade?

The only monetary value comes from what someone is willing to pay/trade for it. It has nothing to do with the initial value of PAYING someone to extract that good. It the good is useless with no buyer, the labor is worthless, it has no value. Quite the opposite...

Supply, demand.

EDIT:
Its the Teabaggers. Even their own party hates them.

DMT


I hope you can see the irony here with your anti Tea Party and Anti-Establishment sh#t....

Tea-Baggers hate the GOP for the most part....
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Aug 6, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
I absolutely agree with the premise of the thread. It has been the lesser of two evils for a few decades now. A legitimate 3rd party would help, not solve, some of the issue, but at this point the special interests have enough to cover 3 parties worth of donations.

"Popular resentment of the privileges enjoyed by the clergy and aristocracy grew amidst a financial crisis following two expensive wars and years of bad harvests, motivating demands for change."

Sound familiar? We are getting closer and closer every day to needing a modern day Americanized French Revolution.

Meanwhile...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/29/gop-house-set-to-work-only-14-days-in-the-next-four-months/
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 6, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
Roughster, the "tea party" is the libertarian wing of the GOP with some moderate Dems joining in.

I know what ya mean. Gov't needs to start responding to people, instead of us being a victim of it.

That's the Tea Party. We want our independence back. Fair taxes, lower gov't spending, and personal independence.

Be nice if the got the Southern Border under control too...
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
Bluering this is NOT a democrat vs republican thread..teaparty vs liberal really is irrelevant. I do think the teaparty represents the frustration about ineffective government but I suspect they are focused on the wrong root causes.

I am trying to get to a deeper very fundamental issue. The concept of getting our representatives to work for the people first instead of donors. Perhaps freeing them to work for us is a better way of putting it.

Crafting quality laws and administering an effective government are not realistically possible when you have to spend over half your time in office begging for donations. Or being afraid to piss off donors.

I suspect governing well is difficult for the most brilliant hardworking decent people who have every second of their time focused on it.

This is not about sound bites or talking points. It is not about liberal or conservative. None of that is even relevant if first we cannot get them to work for us. Currently all that stuff you guys argue about seems like a smokescreen and good cop bad cop routine to placate the masses who have no or at best very poor representation

JEleazarian made a statement early on that he was concerned how fixing this issue could affect freedom of speech. Something like that. I meant to ask him what those concerns were.

Hope he reads this and comments on that. Seems that when you really dig into law or even just scratch the surface things get complicated fast.. avoiding unintended consequences can be difficult.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 6, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
Climb2ski, I think my points were entirely relevant to yer topic. If the Senate refuses to even vote on a bill by the House, what have we got?

Don't blame it in the House! Blame it on Harry Reid for not even allowing a vote by the Senate!!!!

Who is the obstructionist here? Politics is almost ALWAYS partisan. We don't like it, but that's the way it is.

As I said, I find it stupid that the Senate Majority Leader can block a vote on his whims, WTF???? That is wrong. Vote on it and let the chips fall as they must.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
I do not see it as one side or the other.

Because they are not working for us. They do not have our best interests as their guiding force. The system is a hypocritical mess. Their priorities are corrupted and thus their work is inept, haphazard, unfocused, innefective.

It's almost as if we the people need to free them..to work for us.

Help them help us?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 6, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
There are about 10% of the House and 5% of the Senate that do you bidding.

Vote more wisely. And talk to people about why some people truly do suck...

That's why I do.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
How do you vote more wisely?

Candidates don't make it to the ballot until they are chosen by the donors. They don't get back on if they piss em off.

Lets see should I vote for the candidate representing G.E. or the one representing Teamsters local 631? (each may actually represent both to various degree's)

Old Joke.. Will the Senator from Standard Oil please stand up....reply.. which one?

In 1899 it was considered outrageous and a scandal that Standard oil got involved in Florida politics with their money. Now it's considered the norm and protected by the supreme court.

A Senatorial candidate that cannot raise 10 million dollars is considered sub par.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 6, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
Why do you think Dems are putting money towards Gop dicks? To defeat Tea-Part guys that present a danger to the "old-boys" club.

The 2 party's are in on the scam. You have to get people that are non-establishment, on both sides!

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
You have to get people that are non-establishment, on both sides!

How? I suggest we change the establishment instead, But again how. More importantly. Before we ask how to change things we should first identify exactly what to change.

You think we have a people problem.. I think we have a structural problem. People are people. They play the game as it's dealt. Gotta change the game.

Without a clear concise and most importantly, effective goal.. there is zero chance of succeeding.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Aug 6, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
Doesn't the tea-party think ebola is coming up through mexico? or is that the "conservatives" who think that? Somebody thumping gawd thinks it. Unclear who.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Aug 6, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
The Established parties are going to let that happen blue? The system's broken dude. It was set up that way. A government of the banker, by the banker, for the banker.....

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 6, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-tunisia-act-of-one-fruit-vendor-sparks-wave-of-revolution-through-arab-world/2011/03/16/AFjfsueB_story.html


The Washington Post

In Tunisia, act of one fruit vendor sparks wave of revolution through Arab world

By Marc Fisher March 26, 2011

SIDI BOUZID, TUNISIA — On the evening before Mohammed Bouazizi lit a fire that would burn across the Arab world, the young fruit vendor told his mother that the oranges, dates and apples he had to sell were the best he’d ever seen. “With this fruit,” he said, “I can buy some gifts for you. Tomorrow will be a good day.”

For years, Bouazizi had told his mother stories of corruption at the fruit market, where vendors gathered under a cluster of ficus trees on the main street of this scruffy town, not far from Tunisia’s Mediterranean beaches. Arrogant police officers treated the market as their personal picnic grounds, taking bagfuls of fruit without so much as a nod toward payment. The cops took visible pleasure in subjecting the vendors to one indignity after another — fining them, confiscating their scales, even ordering them to carry their stolen fruit to the cops’ cars.

Before dawn on Friday, Dec. 17, as Bouazizi pulled his cart along the narrow, rutted stone road toward the market, two police officers blocked his path and tried to take his fruit. Bouazizi’s uncle rushed to help his 26-year-old nephew, persuading the officers to let the rugged-looking young man complete his one-mile trek.

The uncle visited the chief of police and asked him for help. The chief called in a policewoman who had stopped Bouazizi, Fedya Hamdi, and told her to let the boy work.

Hamdi, outraged by the appeal to her boss, returned to the market. She took a basket of Bouazizi’s apples and put it in her car. Then she started loading a second basket. This time, according to Alladin Badri, who worked the next cart over, Bouazizi tried to block the officer.

“She pushed Mohammed and hit him with her baton,” Badri said.

Hamdi reached for Bouazizi’s scale, and again he tried to stop her.

Hamdi and two other officers pushed Bouazizi to the ground and grabbed the scale. Then she slapped Bouazizi in the face in front of about 50 witnesses.

Bouazizi wept with shame.

“Why are you doing this to me?” he cried, according to vendors and customers who were there. “I’m a simple person, and I just want to work.”

Revolutions are explosions of frustration and rage that build over time, sometimes over decades. Although their political roots are deep, it is often a single spark that ignites them — an assassination, perhaps, or one selfless act of defiance.

In Tunisia, an unusually cosmopolitan Arab country with a high rate of college attendance, residents watched for 23 years as Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali’s dictatorship became a grating daily insult. From Tunis — the whitewashed, low-rise capital with a tropical, colonial feel — to the endless stretches of olive and date trees in the sparsely populated countryside, the complaints were uniform: It had gotten so you couldn’t get a job without some connection to Ben Ali’s family or party. The secret police kept close tabs on ordinary Tunisians. And the uniformed police took to demanding graft with brazen abandon.

Still, the popular rebellion that started here and spread like a virus to Egypt, Libya and the Persian Gulf states, and now to Yemen and Syria, was anything but preordained. The contagion, carried by ordinary people rather than politicians or armies, hits each country in a different and uncontrollable way, but with common characteristics — Friday demonstrations, Facebook connections, and alliances across religious, class and tribal lines. This wave of change happened because aging dictators grew cocky and distant from the people they once courted, because the new social media that the secret police didn’t quite understand reached a critical mass of people, and because, in a rural town where respect is more valued than money, Mohammed Bouazizi was humiliated in front of his friends.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2014 - 06:05pm PT
I like that example Tom.

Eventually things hit a tipping point then something happens to ignite change.

Here we have had the Tea-party and the occupy movement. Occupy stood for nothing other than a general grumpiness. The tea-party doesn't seem much better but at least a bit more focused.

But without an effective goal all we get is fire. I sure don't want that. Rather stick with what we have than chaos.

Lets free our politicians
crankster

Trad climber
Aug 7, 2014 - 06:27am PT
I doubt many of the Perpetual Complainer's posting here even know who their representative is.

Yes, there's plenty to ridicule. Almost the entire Republican delegation is a joke.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
Most expensive midterms in history.

R.I.P. Government of the people by the people for the people in the USA
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Nov 5, 2014 - 06:36am PT
America is not being run by the best and the brightest...

There are no laws that say you have to do your job once you are elected...

America has awakened from the American Dream. Now they have to pay a rich white man in order to continue life.

Its too bad all the clean water is tainted with all that fracking fluids that only server to spread the wildfire.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

 I guess we don't get clean air...
I guess we cannot ask for clean water... Big s[spenders made it so that they got to dump that toxic sludge anywhere they want...
Here comes the sludge fires across the country...


Wait.... The republicans are here to help Americans Achieve The American Dream....





Let me ask you..... Do you really believe that?



Why isn't anyone asking... how much influence does McConnells step family have on American legislation.

And lets not forget the drugs found no their ships...

Not connected... but
[Click to View YouTube Video]

 America Gets What It Deserves

There goes any hope for the middle class... and working families...

I'm glad I am not you... But certainly will meet my own for of pain while you do
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 5, 2014 - 06:42am PT
The ski is on to something!
John M

climber
Nov 5, 2014 - 09:03am PT
Here is a prime example of that Liberal Democratic thieving buffoonery that was re-elected to the Senate tonight... A fuming Comedian who can't or doesn't know how to pay his taxes.

not really defending the democrats, but this is a poor example. The tax code is a living nightmare. How its read depends on who your lawyer is and your tax accountant.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Nov 5, 2014 - 09:34am PT
Here is a prime example of that Liberal Democratic thieving buffoonery that was re-elected to the Senate tonight... A fuming Comedian who can't or doesn't know how to pay his taxes.

 "the right-wing noise machine."
Messages 121 - 140 of total 160 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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