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WBraun

climber
Jul 31, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
USA is trying to frame Russia because of the dollar.

Israel is trying to cause distraction for their murdering of humanity.

It's all pretty simple.

Until the the aszhole disinfo pricks get into action ......
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 31, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
It was a post in some Russian forum about a month ago, recirculated widely in light of the events discussed here. It reads something like:

'Soon a jet full of Euro tourists will be shot down above Eastern Ukraine and the event will be used to bring NATO into the region. I think so'

Does it give you the simple answer 'whodoneit'? The guy who done the post, right? People never do intelligent guesses, especially that wild?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 31, 2014 - 05:19pm PT
Wait.... post 445?

Holy Schit, now we're f*#ked for good!!!
crankster

Trad climber
Jul 31, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
Shot down by mistake. No conspiracy. Case closed. Now go climbing.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 31, 2014 - 05:57pm PT
have fun with this:

http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2014/07/aids-researchers-killed-in-ukraine-air.html
crankster

Trad climber
Jul 31, 2014 - 06:52pm PT

Jul 31, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
Nobody said anything about a conspiracy except the nutcase crank nut.

You're a nutcase projectionist .....

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 1, 2014 - 08:57am PT
European markets were down sharply today largely due to fears of their
sanctions against Russia and the effect on jobs. Yes, the Portuguese bank
fiascos are weighing the markets down, too, but not as heavily as Ukraine.
Interestingly, Polish markets were the only ones in the black. I won't
speculate or make a joke about that.
overwatch

climber
Aug 1, 2014 - 09:50am PT
Just shake your leg, Mr. Braun, maybe he/she/it will fall off

Edit:
So clever you and your stupid little pictures...never much of any real import to say do you,"crankster" ? Right the f*#k back at you.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 1, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
http://graphics.wsj.com/mh17-crash-map/
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Aug 1, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
sat imagery and some words: http://www.strategic-culture.org/pview/2014/08/01/analysis-satellite-imagery-released-internet-security-service-ukraine-july-30-2014.html
The Ukrainian images must be provided by US, as Ukraine barely has means to produce it.

The most interesting part to me it this. Here is he Russian-provided image of two Ukrainian launchers and one armed vehicle of some sort guarding the crossing, just south of Zaroshchens'ke village,(google maps spelling), about 10 miles south of crash site. This is very close to rebel-controlled area. According to the Russian report, they were there only at the day when the plane was shot down.

This slide - and there is one more in the article - is presented by Ukrainians to show that there is no any Buks in there. The image is apparently taken several days later, and what it shows instead that that corner of the field where the Buk launchers were placed (the right one actually) is freshly plowed.

You are free to make your own speculations.

On 07.23 Ukrainian military reported death in combat of antiaircraft missile regiment commander lieutenant Vladimir Chernous.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 11, 2014 - 05:50pm PT
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Malaysian-press-charges-Uk-by-Alex-Lantier-Government-Corruption_Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-17_Putin_Russia-140809-576.html

A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia's flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

The New Straits Times article, titled "US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft," lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed. The Kiev regime denied that its fighters were airborne in the area, however.

The New Straits Times article began, "Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth."

It cited "experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes -- the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with 'flechettes,' and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds."

The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw -- one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: "There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire."

Another source the paper cited was an article, "Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts," by former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry, who now writes for the ConsortiumNews.com web site. Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile, Parry said, "some US intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault, and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings."

Perry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry's claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

"Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an 'extraordinary circumstantial' case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the US government was 'not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible,'" Perry wrote. "By then, I was already being told that the US intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry's allegations, and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military."

Finally, the New Straits Times and Parry both cited retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko, who has pointed to photographic evidence of MH17 wreckage suggesting that cockpit panels were raked with heavy machine gun fire from both the port and starboard sides. "Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through the panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile," Parry wrote.

The New Straits Times report constitutes a powerful accusation not only against the Ukrainian government, but against Washington, Berlin, and their European allies. They installed the Kiev regime through a fascist-led putsch in February. They then deployed a series of intelligence operatives and Blackwater mercenaries who are closely coordinating the various fascist militias and National Guard units fighting for Kiev on the ground in east Ukraine, where MH17 was shot down.

These forces now stand accused not only of stoking an explosive political and military confrontation with Russia on its border with Ukraine over the MH17 crash, which threatens to erupt into nuclear war, but of provoking the confrontation through the cold-blooded murder of 298 people aboard MH17.

These charges from Malaysia are all the more significant, in that Malaysia is not a strategic adversary of the United States. Unlike Russia, which already presented evidence suggesting Ukrainian involvement in the crash, Malaysia has no political motive for trying to discredit the US, the European powers, or their puppet regime in Kiev.

While it has not aligned itself as openly as the Philippines or Vietnam with the US "pivot to Asia" aimed at isolating China, Malaysia has in fact pushed for deployments of its forces in the South China Sea to contest Chinese influence in the area, in line with the agenda of the US "pivot."

Indeed, the New Straits Times and its sources are basing themselves on sections of US intelligence that, disgruntled by the complete lack of evidence to back up US charges against Putin and fearing catastrophic military escalation, have criticized Washington's handling of the crisis (see: "Former US intelligence personnel challenge Obama to present evidence of Russian complicity in MH17 crash").
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
Complete tripe given the rebels shot down a Ukranian An-26 military transport flying just above 20K in mid-July - do you think they used slingshots for that one instead of a Buk?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 11, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
Crankster works in a theater...?
crankster

Trad climber
Aug 11, 2014 - 07:39pm PT
Rj, I once had a friend who was a projectionist. Close as I got.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 22, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/enemies-ukraine-speak/

Our ‘Enemies’ in Ukraine Speak
2 days ago
Eric Zuesse
RINF Alternative News

America’s ‘news’ media do not let the victims of Ukraine’s civil war — the people who are dying and being driven out from the southeastern regions of that country by the new Ukrainian Government — speak, and tell their story. Scenes will therefore be posted below from an admittedly overlong amateur video from southeastern Ukraine, in which they have been allowed to tell their story. This is being done here since U.S. ‘news’ media apparently don’t consider it something that you would want to know, and since you should be allowed to judge for yourself whether it is or not, and to judge why it’s not being reported on the ‘news’ sources that our ‘democracy’ offers to ‘inform’ America’s public about public affairs. It is also being done because these still photos from the documentary summarize this over-long documentary’s important narrative. You are welcomed to click onto the link above to see the entire 82-minute documentary.
First, there will here be an introductory paragraph summary of the relevant background (not discussed in the documentary), if you want to know that: In February 2014, our State Department and CIA used ‘false flag,’ or engineered-so-as-to-be-misinterpreted, violence by our country’s paid Ukrainian agents, in order to exploit the ‘Maidan’ demonstrations in Kiev, the desire of Ukrainians for a less-corrupt government than existed in Ukraine, and than has existed in Ukraine ever since the fall of communism there. Our Government, the Obama Administration, paid masked gunmen there to dress as if they were from the State Security Force of the corrupt Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and to shoot at and murder not just policemen but anti-Yanukovych or ‘democracy’ demonstrators. (However, Yanukovych had, in fact, himself been democratically elected in 2010, and still was the democratically elected President.) (NOTE: The complete key phone-transcript whose audio is briefly heard excerpted there is printed here.) And our gunmen also threatened some members of the Ukrainian Parliament at gunpoint, and engineered their approval of an emergency replacement of Yanukovych’s government by one that was appointed by Obama’s agent, Victoria Nuland, and that was headed by Nuland’s friend “Yats,” Arseniy Yatsenyuk. This new government was filled with people who stated their desire to exterminate the people in Ukraine’s southeast, the people who had voted overwhelmingly for Yanukovych — to just get rid of them. Doing that would make Obama’s regime in Ukraine become permanent. Then, Ukraine held a ‘democratic’ election in which voters everywhere but in the southeast voted, and essentially the same coup-installed people remained in power. The billionaire oligarch Petro Poroshenko was elected as the President of ‘Ukraine’; and Victoria Nuland’s chosen leader, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, continued on as the new country’s Prime Minister. Yatsenyuk fired the previous Defense Minister and replaced him with Mikhail Koval, who on June 11th announced a program of ethnic cleansing in the southeast. This was actually a direct extension from the program that had already started with the extermination on May 2nd of hundreds of supporters of the previous government, who were trapped inside the Trade Unions Building in Odessa and burned alive there. This massacre was masterminded by people who were installed by the Obama Administration. That massacre started Ukraine’s civil war, by demonstrating to people throughout the southeast, that the newly Obama-installed Ukrainian Government wanted to kill them. It was now official policy throughout the southeastern portion of Ukraine, to kill the Obama-installed regime’s opponents. All of the residents there were being officially labelled by the Obama government as ‘terrorists,’ and their elimination was declared to be a patriotic necessity for Ukraine. However, this amateur documentary from Ukraine’s southeast — the video from which the scenes below are taken — presents the resulting civil war not from the Obama Government’s side, but from their regime’s victims’ side, which is hardly heard at all in the West.

Since this amateur documentary presents the unvarnished reality of an actual ethnic cleansing campaign in progress, corpses and parts of corpses are necessarily shown, and also bombed buildings are shown. There also are curse-words that are spoken by the victims. Censoring these things out would be a violation of the most basic requirements of honest journalism, and would be to cover-up the reality of an ethnic-cleansing campaign, merely because this reality is ugly — that would be a shameful thing to do, a fundamental violation of the journalistic standards of any democracy, and will not be done here, though it is routinely done by our ‘journalists.’

Whatever it is, is mass-theft, combined with mass-murder, combined with a super-scandalous cover-up by all but a half-dozen ‘news’ media in the West (each of which has only a small audience), so that even almost all ‘alternative news’ sites are part of the cover-up. But this site, fortunately, isn’t. It’s one of the few that are honest.

In fact, international aristocrats are raping our entire planet with impunity (such as by owning ‘news’ media and politicians), and are ‘trophy hunting’ and otherwise slaughtering not only rare species of animals, but also the human residents of southeastern Ukraine. To ‘bag’ a human or an expensive animal of any species is especially status-confirming to them. Their impunity is the mark of their ‘superiority’: Only they can commit crimes with impunity; so, the bigger the crime, the bigger the thrill it is for them.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 31, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
is apparently planning to collaborate with Monsanto to produce GM frost-resistant cocoa beans in Ukraine.

That is sooooo evil!!!

It would be much better if the farmers lost their crops and livelihood to frost.

More seriously there is no such thing as a non GMO domesticated plant or animal.

WBraun

climber
Aug 31, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
Hahaha .... stupid Americans

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Sep 1, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
This is the first time that we hear what the new - post Strelkov - commanders have to say. This is the first time that the Novorussians are going on the offensive. And this is the first time that we get to hear the views, values and ideas of the people fighting against the Nazi junta.

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/08/watershed-press-conference-by-top.html

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 8, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
MH17 damage photo

Pro-Russian rebels have denied any possession of a BUK.

However, photographs and videos cast doubt on the claim by the Kremlin and pro-Russian rebels - that they did not have a BUK missile launcher on their territory.

Three eyewitnesses, all civilians, separately told Panorama that they saw a missile-launcher in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit.

One eyewitness saw the missile-launcher roll off a low-loader at Snezhnoye, around ten miles from the crash site, at around 13:30 local time (10:30 GMT).

"We just saw it being offloaded and when the BUK started its engine the exhaust smoke filled the whole town square," he said.

'Pure Russian accents'
The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers: "Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike."

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not speak Russian with a local accent.

A piece of the crashed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 lies in the village of Petropavlivka, Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine, on 23 July 2014
Investigators said the plane was hit by shrapnel from a fragmentation weapon such as a BUK
His testimony was confirmed by a second eyewitness, who added that an officer in a military jeep escorting the BUK spoke with a Muscovite accent.

If correct, the Kremlin has to explain to the relatives of the 298 passengers and crew who died - including ten Britons - why Russian military personnel were allegedly seen in the area escorting a BUK shortly before MH17 was shot down.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29109398
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 8, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
HT, I'll bet you whatever that your pick isn't from MH 17. That looks like
a Russian/Ukrainian chopper fuselage to me.
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