America...the newest third world country.

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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 10, 2014 - 10:54am PT
Redistribution of wealth on a global scale is what has been happening for decades with the free trade agreements. That "giant sucking sound " that Perot referred to as NAFTA in the 1992 presidential election.I know both parties participated but which advanced more agreements? It's not government by, for, and of the people its government by , fo r and of the career aristocracy. Want proof- look into the loopholes, exclusions, exemptions written into the sixty thousand pages of the tax code, look at the campaign donators to the perrenial candidates, look into the miraculous net worths of the supposed public servants. Want to know what happened with the middle class prosperity, well follow that giant sucking sound to distant shores. Despite all this with acceptance of personal responsibility and a little discipline pretty much all can achieve their goals in this country if not robbed of incentive by taking the easy road of government assistance. This is nothing more or less than the buying of votes and allegiance through theft of motivation.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
May 10, 2014 - 11:14am PT
Let's not forget to thank President Obama for his part in increasing wealth (for the wealthy) faster than any President since Calvin Coolidge.

QE4evr

The rich get richer... faster than ever.

The masses get.... MEH.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 11:24am PT
"Let's not forget to thank President Obama for his part in increasing wealth (for the wealthy) faster than any President since Calvin Coolidge."


What part did he have in it???
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
May 10, 2014 - 11:42am PT
3rd World California....approaching fast!

Hardship Makes a New Home in the Suburbs

When taking into account the cost of living, including housing, child care and medical expenses, California has the highest poverty rate in the nation, according to a measure introduced by the Census Bureau in 2011 that considers both government benefits and living costs in different parts of the country. By that measure, roughly nine million people — nearly a quarter of the state’s residents — live in poverty.

“This is where poor people live now, and this is where they are going to live,” said Alan Berube, an author of the Brookings Institution study. “When poverty moved out of the inner cities it didn’t just go next door, it went 30 miles away. But at the time those families might not have been poor — they were just chasing the middle-class dream. Then, boom, that evaporated.”

Since she was classified as a temporary worker, she would leave her home at 4 a.m. only to find out at 6 a.m. that she would not be hired for the day. On days there was work, she would arrive back home 12 hours after she left.


The suburbs of Republican districts were somewhat more likely to experience poverty increases than the suburbs of Democratic districts.

Fully 93 percent of Republican districts experienced an increase in the suburban poor population (173 of 187) compared to 83 percent of Democratic districts (151 of 181) between 2000 and 2007–11. Suburban areas represented by Republicans were also more likely than those represented by Democrats to experience an increase in their poverty rate during that period. Suburban poverty rates increased in 86 percent (160) of the Republican districts from 2000 to 2007–11, versus 71 percent (128) of the Democratic districts.




Irony....It's what's for breakfast.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 10, 2014 - 11:45am PT
Despite all this with acceptance of personal responsibility and a little discipline pretty much all can achieve their goals in this country if not robbed of incentive by taking the easy road of government assistance. This is nothing more or less than the buying of votes and allegiance through theft of motivation.

So Rick Sumner, in his learned wisdom, concludes that the past thirty odd years of deminishing return for output by all but the top 20% or so is due to a welfare culture, not a stacked deck at all.
This despite the fact that there is ample example of the evils of socialism actually being levered quite well with no discernible degree of moral or social decay:

http://www.tickld.com/x/wtf-is-wrong-is-wrong-with-americans-this-guy-nails-it

Knowing all this, one can only conclude that the Rick Sumners of America assume that what works elsewhere can never work in America. Which must mean that he assumes that the people of america are different. Not only different but inherently less capable - in fact totally incapable of using tools and method proven to work elsewhere to their advantage.

To what do you ascribe this inability Rick? Rank Stupidity? A propensity to parasitism? A gross generalized lack of moral fortitude, measurably less than many other societies and nations?

Why exactly do you hold your fellow Americans as so incapable to rise to such a simple task?

Is this attitude of yours typical of a particular political demographic to which you belong or is it a much broader but well disguised state of national low self esteem, sort of like how Rob Ford can go into a long delayed substance abuse program yet claim to be still master of his universe?

I repeat, why do you (and Werner) hate Americans so much Rick? Did they torture you as a child? were you born in Kenya? Are you in fact a communist after all?
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 10, 2014 - 12:04pm PT
And in the fourth world, where things are really bad...

just throw the record away.

And build your own little green rosetta.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
May 10, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM

Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 08:24am PT
"Let's not forget to thank President Obama for his part in increasing wealth (for the wealthy) faster than any President since Calvin Coolidge."


What part did he have in it???

Again.

QE4evr
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 10, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
Stupid canookians is what I say. Babbling Bruce once again demonstrates his ability to highlight statements out of context then put his twisted interpretation on a discrete parcel of the whole. Listen you moron for the giant sucking sound. That is the noise of your decent paying canadian production jobs being siphoned off along with your resources in the coming pipelines to china and greater asia. Now crawl back into your cave and drown your miserable sorrows in that bottle always at your lips.
okie

Trad climber
May 10, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
Maybe not 3rd...but a disgrace for such a wealthy nation.
We have more folks incarcerated than anywhere else. What's THAT about?
The fact that basic human rights for our own citizens is even a debatable issue speaks volumes.
Funny how the people who deny that class war exists can be its most vicious warriors.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
May 10, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
Quit being a member of the perpetual complaining class. Cable news, talk radio, blah, blah, blah.

Complainers are the morons. Complainers are the sheep.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 10, 2014 - 12:16pm PT
Meta-complainers are meta-sheep and meta-morons.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 10, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
I don't understand Rick... just last week you were advising us stupid canucks to welcome that sucking noise as the sweet sound of successful prosperity. Now you are pointing out that it is just another case of the race to the bottom of the barrel.

Sorry, I'm a dim witted confused canadian. Perhaps someone wiser (Werner perhaps?) could interpret the wise words of Rick sumner in a way that removes the appearance of hypocrisy and contradiction.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 10, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
Maybe if Americans didn't insist upon living beyond their means we wouldn't
be having this 'discussion'. It wouldn't hurt, either, to learn the word 'save'.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 10, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
Quote It wouldn't hurt, either, to learn the word 'save'.

Save your preaching!

;-)
FredC

Boulder climber
Santa Cruz, CA
May 10, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
I asked a question a long time upstream and I'm not absolutely sure we have solved this one yet. You would think that after this many posts we would have things clarified.

I think that the increased concentration of wealth at the top leads to increased power there as well. That seems like it will in turn lead to even more separation of classes and this seems kind of like it is going to be hard to stop or change. My background as a poor person growing up makes me think that more taxes might help. I think the last time the concentration of wealth got this extreme we had a "great depression" or something.

How do we make this better? If we can't solve this on supertopo then I might get really worried.

(Hi Randy!)

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 10, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
John posted
As to the substance of the article, we've had enough debate elsewhere. I'll simply say this: when top marginal rates were confiscatory, taxpayers engaged in numerous business activities whose sole purpose was to shelter income.

That's true. People used to figure out ways to get out of paying 70% or 90% income tax rates. Now they do the exact same thing to get out of paying 36% income tax rates. In a world where 10% is considered an excellent investment, they will do it at basically any income tax rate.

John continued
Not surprisingly, the share of taxes paid by those with the highest incomes rose.

That's sort of true! And by that logic we should have a 0.1% tax rate so that we have 100% tax participation and no actual tax revenue. Success!

John finished
But that's irrelevant to the politics of envy.

The politics of every dime of productivity increase by working Americans in the last 15+ years going to the top 1%? That's really your definition of "envy?" It's actually worse than that seeing as wages relative to inflation have actually decreased in that amount of time for middle class Americans so the 1%ers are taking all the productivity gains PLUS the inflationary gains.

Of course to someone who believes in the Just World Fallacy it's a lot easier to write that all off to "envy" instead of identifying a structural flaw in our economic and social models. The Greatest Generation's success was in no small way grounded in robust government programs, a high minimum wage and strong union participation...all things which are completely ignored in the current debate.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 10, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
FredC
you are absolutely correct.
Of course no one dared call the 2008 meltdown a Depression.
Although in fact it severely depressed the economies of all the western democracies, Japan, Australia.
We're just now coming out of it, after 5 years of Obama.
The Great Depression lasted 5 years before significant recovery started. Largely thanks to FDR's "liberal" New Deal.

A brief history of 30 miles Skyline Blvd in the Santa Cruz mts.
Started by a developer it was built southwards until it reached Hwy 9, about 1928 when thanks to the Great Depression the state ran out of money. In about 1932, New Deal money became available and it was cut through the most difficult terrain (past Castle Rock State Park) to Black Rd. Right past my place. The New Deal money dried up and the final 8 miles from Black Rd to Hwy 17 was never finished. It remains less than 2 lanes wide to this day.
Fast Forward to 2008. A much needed pavement re-surfacing is in progress on the southernmost 12 miles. State again runs out of money when the economy collapses. Work stops about 1 mile south of my place.
A few months later Obama creates the American Rehabilitation And Recovery Act for "shovel ready projects" which the Republitards have maligned to this day. Within 6 months the remaining 10 miles is completed.
All the local Firesafe Councils which had shovel ready projects in 2008 (all approvals complete) finally got funding through ARRA money in 2011. My FSC finished our two projects last summer. Area wide, probably 35 miles of overgrown roadways were cleared.
My FSC's 2 projects spent over $150K on 5 miles. All of it locally.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 10, 2014 - 03:43pm PT
The 2008 "meltdown" was a culmination of bad gov't policy coupled with bank greed. The housing meltdown was created by Congress, and the banks tried to take advantage of this in the short-term.

Mortagage-backed securities. This is what happens when gov't gets involved in the private-sector.

As for the banks involved? They should've been allowed to crash. You bet poorly, you lose. No gov't bailouts.

Same for the homeowners. No bailouts.

Look where we are now.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
May 10, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
Who can tell us what has been done by our esteemed leaders (Obama, Congress, the Fed, the FDIC, the SEC, etc.) to prevent a 2008 meltdown from happening again?

It's not complicated.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
May 10, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
Somewhat rebalanced mortgage lending practices. Still too much bank finance allowed in wallstreet speculation.


Both were lessons learned in the great depression and forgotten by the 90's. Not quite relearned again.
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