America...the newest third world country.

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Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Original Post - May 9, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Keep blaming it on the poor, the rich have it all thanks to Reagan and the republicans.


http://iacknowledge.net/us-set-to-become-the-newest-third-world-country/
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
May 9, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
Now the ball is in the court of the Federal Reserve, Bob, and they are petrified at allowing interest rates to climb to normal levels, causing the stock market to collapse.

The rich do indeed get richer.

;>(
steve shea

climber
May 9, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
The true job creators are the consumers. If we the people do not spend or cannot spend what will the 1% eventually have?
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
May 9, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
Indentured servants?
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
May 9, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
We are living in a economic time , an adjustment period, in which capital is outpacing overall economic output.
There have been other periods like this in the history of this country.

The key thing here is to understand that in such transitional periods radical political forces will always seek to take advantage of the situation and--if they are allowed to--- set poor against rich, class against class-- in order to exploit class envy and hatred. A formula that produces neither wealth or egalitarianism.
These attempts always end up throwing the baby out with the bath water and condemning everyone to eventual tyranny and poverty.
No one wins.

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
George Santayana
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 9, 2014 - 02:00pm PT
Now the ball is in the court of the Federal Reserve, Bob, and they are petrified at allowing interest rates to climb to normal levels, causing the stock market to collapse.

I agree that the Fed has the ball, John, but they are under tremendous pressure to keep interest rates low because of what an increase in interest rates would do to governmental budgets, not the stock market. In the market, you can make money as a bull, but you can make money as a bear, too. You just can't make money as a pig.

The government, on the other hand, is sustaining its spending solely because it can borrow at an effectively zero interest rate. It has no way to make money if interest rates rise.

As to the substance of the article, we've had enough debate elsewhere. I'll simply say this: when top marginal rates were confiscatory, taxpayers engaged in numerous business activities whose sole purpose was to shelter income. Why would anyone knowingly do something to make money if 90% of it or more got taken by the taxman? When the marginal rates dropped, the tax shelters became uneconomic and it became cheaper to pay the tax. Not surprisingly, the share of taxes paid by those with the highest incomes rose.

But that's irrelevant to the politics of envy.

John
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
May 9, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
I'm afraid that the old way of doing things is never going to work. By propping up this ever-more complex and unworkable edifice, we are ensuring a complete and total collapse.

Perhaps this is good that we will be unable to build something new and good and true from the crumbling and useless foundations of self and greed and fear.

What ever truly lasts? If we can figure this out, then there is our foundation.

Did I really just say that?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
In 1945 Germany was a third world country. Granted, they had some help, but it appears they
pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Just an observation.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
JohnE...I don't envy the rich, I despise what they have done to this country. They want it all and leave nothing for the rest.


"Why would anyone knowingly do something to make money if 90% of it or more got taken by the taxman?"

When did they ever pay 90 percent??


Good try John...

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 9, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
Over several decades we outsourced our production capabilities to the global community
. We became a fat lazy consumer economy fueled by excessive debt from personal to soverign. Our economy is now mainly a service economy augmented with a dwindling lead in R&D and the manipulations of the financial sector. We didn't need more laws, just enforcement of existing laws which were largely ignored in the runup of the collapse of 2008. Instead of taking the pain then and fundamentally reorganizing our economy to a more rational basis we indefinitely extended the pain through huge deficit spending and Fed reserve trickery. Now were in the pickle Jgill mentioned; healthy growth in GDP would lead to higher interest rates and collapse of our ability to continue borrowing to fund the phony economy, that's something the Fed truly fears. It will be quite a feat for the government to manage a soft landing, in the end I don't see it happening.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 9, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
set poor against rich, class against class-- in order to exploit class envy and hatred

"progressive" politics 101
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 9, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
World educational ratings by the Economist Intelligence Unit

1. South Korea
2. Japan
3. Singapore
4. Hong Kong
5. Finland
6. UK
7. Canada
8. Netherlands
9. Ireland
10. Poland
11. Denmark
12. Germany
13. Russia
14. United States
15. Australia
16. New Zealand
17. Israel
18. Belgium
19. Czech Republic
20. Switzerland

#14.
Well done USA. Behind Poland. But at least we're ahead of the Czech Republic and Switzerland.
We're not quite 3d world yet, but we're trying hard.
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
May 9, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
when top marginal rates were confiscatory, taxpayers engaged in numerous business activities whose sole purpose was to shelter income. Why would anyone knowingly do something to make money if 90% of it or more got taken by the taxman? When the marginal rates dropped, the tax shelters became uneconomic and it became cheaper to pay the tax. Not surprisingly, the share of taxes paid by those with the highest incomes rose.

Regardless of what the top marginal tax rates are, taxpayers will engage in numerous activities and lobbying whose sole purpose is to shelter income. Romney had to release his returns because he wanted to be president; he paid an effective tax rate of 13.9% and I’ll bet if he could find a way to pay less he would.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
Apparently whoever concocted those ratings didn't consult Werner.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
Bottom of the list on health....USA baby!!


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/new-health-rankings-of-17-nations-us-is-dead-last/267045/
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
May 9, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
Good point, JE. A collapse of the market would drag us back into a recession (more pronounced than the one we are currently in) and thus drive rates back down. The economist Thomas Piketty has observed that when the rate of return on capital is higher than the economy's growth rate capital income will rise faster than wages and salaries. And in 2010 the richest ten percent owned seventy percent of all the wealth. He is of the opinion that what has occurred in the last century is an anomaly - wages growing faster than capital income - and that the reverse is the normal mode. Not good news!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 02:21pm PT
Not even on the list...yeah America!!

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/travel/melbourne-most-livable-city/
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 9, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
Stop enabling the 1%. Vote with your wallet.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
"Stop enabling the 1%. Vote with your wallet. "


That is the point, we have pennies and they have millions. Who is going win??


Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
May 9, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
Eisenhower, a Republican had a tax rate of 90% for the highest earners
It could have been in place before him

JFK lowered it to 70%, and which the Republicans use as ammunition to say if lowering taxes is so bad, why did JFK do it, which is complete BS, JFK did it to stop all the loopholes the rich were using because they would not pay the 90%

from 90 to 70% is reasonable, from 70 to 34% (Bush II) is not so reasonable
from 34% to 15% like most of the rich pay is ridiculous

we went from 90% to 15% for the rich in a 50 year period, and our economy has collapsed as a result.

The Republicans have bankrupted us by low tax rates to the rich, and tax breaks for Corporations, and it directly resulted in the wealth disparity, and the rich and Corporations taking on new powers to influence our Congress
Now, most of the tax burden is on the backs of the middle class, the opposite of what it should be.
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