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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 19, 2014 - 04:06pm PT
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Jim told me that he booby traps his routes and that his number one goal is for somebody to die on them. "The greatest honor," he proudly pronounced it. Among other things, he told me that he tapes all of his hangers and gear he can't get out, then he swings around off to the sides and places cheater-stick-bait booby traps.
Just saying that about a route/routes you put up, whether a troll or not, seems just bizarre.
I guess it's the flip side of the "we put up routes so others can enjoy them" coin.
Each to their own, I guess.
Sad irony, Piton Ron.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Nov 19, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
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Heading for Oblivion wasn't booby trapped; just botched. Shame too, as the rest of it was pretty cool.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 19, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
Nov 19, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
60' runouts on .11/.12 pitches
"Caught my eye too. That's some world class climbing, even in this age."
Go for the repeat. It's on the South Face of Moran. The South Buttress Drifter needs a repeat too. It's pretty good and not very dangerous. No booby traps on either.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Nov 19, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
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There is clearly a difference between one's climbing ability and character.
Are you sure? I don't think you've been paying attention here on Supertopo, Jim. That opinion puts you in the minority.
Also. Following that that line of thought would excise almost all of the content from climbing; the conformity, herd behavior, hero worship, and group think.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 19, 2014 - 05:10pm PT
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Intentional booby trapping placements with premeditated intent to cause bodily harm to an unsuspecting climber would definitely fall under a felony conviction.
Wow, Werner has secured a conviction without even a trial!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 19, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
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Gumbyclimber,
That is very interesting stuff you relate, under an anonymous avatar.
Can you please identify yourself? Only with identity can you have credibility. Some here may know who you are, but most of us do not.
Thanks,
Peter Zabrok
Ontario, Canada
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 19, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
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Pete.....in identifying yourself you remain in a distinct minority on this forum. Hard to call out specific people when most still remain shrouded behind their avatars.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
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Nov 19, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
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Apparently the evidence I cited could not pass supertopo peer-review! I think I let my personal distaste for somebody get in the way of complete and total objectivity. I too would like to see photographic evidence for what I have so often heard. Perhaps one should never judge a climber by his/her reputation!
If you are watching this thread, Jim Beyer, I apologize for pre-judgement of your routes. They are certainly hard-as-nails by any standard.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:41am PT
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I don't know why you think I'm a "Beyer Worshiper" just because I say that you do not quote the sources. I think quoting is just a matter of fairness.
And according to Intifada SA report from Jensen (you can find it here: http://jensenconsultations.com/climbing/intifada/intifada.html go there quickly, maybe Jensen decides to remove the web page as he did with the SA of Look out Danger! [www.conclusivesystems.com]):
But, there were more of Beyer's "special" tactics in store. At the end of one copperhead seam was a blank area about eight feet across before another seam started. This was almost identical to the fifth pitch where Beyer had used his first bat hooks, so I started looking for the holes. Nothing. I went up and down my aiders carefully searching for some hint of what Beyer had done. Nothing. Dismally I turned my attention to the only feature I could reach on the entire blank section: a tiny flake. "No," I said to myself, "There's no way Beyer hooked that! Even good flakes lower down have been deeply modified or ignored." I took the nail punch and reached over. Rooting the tip of the nail punch around the top of the flake revealed the truth. In the wall behind the flake was a deep quarter inch hole--packed with sand!
I tried to duplicate any natural action which could have deposited sand in that hole. Loose flowing sand would not collect there. That section of wall was completely free from mud flows; it was some of the best rock on the route. Lower down on the route, not a single hole was filled in this fashion, even in places that were obvious mud flows. There is simply no way that hole could have naturally filled up. The only way I could get sand to stick there was to mix spit with dirt and pack it in with my fingertip. Every hole from there to the top of the climb was packed with sand. So, now we were playing a new game: try to find where Beyer went, while following a sabotaged route! This added much frustration and many hours to the rest of the climb as we painstakingly avoided adding holes to the route, while trying to figure out where Beyer would have drilled (and then filled).
And in the epilogue:
Whatever Beyer ends up saying about where the route ended up, nothing changes the facts of what we found on the route: deeply enhanced hooking, trenched heads, bat hooks, drilled angles, and a sabotaged route in the form of intentionally filled holes to keep people from figuring out what to do and make the climb seem harder than it is. Of these facts I am certain. Since Beyer doesn't publish topos of his "harder creations," and since he insists on doing his routes solo, he can essentially claim anything he wants about his routes. However, with some effort, much like revealing his sand-packed holes, one can discover the truth.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Nov 20, 2014 - 05:41am PT
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nothing changes the facts of what we found on the route: deeply enhanced hooking, trenched heads, bat hooks, drilled angles, and a sabotaged route in the form of intentionally filled holes to keep people from figuring out what to do and make the climb seem harder than it is.
I am sure there has to be a reason.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Nov 20, 2014 - 05:50am PT
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Jim told me that he booby traps his routes
Now I know the truth.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Nov 20, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
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johnkelley - Beyer has stated in the past (AAJ, for instance) that the "free" ratings on some of his climbs aren't for what we would think of the modern free climbing standard, the redpoint. In fact he is on record as stating that many of these "free" pitches are, for instance, first aided, then climbed on a fixed rope using an ascender, possibly with hangs. They never really get led free.
He justified it by saying that that is better than rap bolting.
Can you comment on these tactics?
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 20, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
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The routes we did were lead free onsight. That was the goal anyway. If we pulled on gear or hung we'd add an A0 to the rating.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 20, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
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If that's the case it sounds, to me, like he was pretty honest about how he came up with the ratings...
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Dickly
Social climber
KY
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Nov 20, 2014 - 03:07pm PT
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pages upon pages about a guy who doesnt wank on the internet, nice work folks! whos up for an A5?
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Nov 20, 2014 - 03:42pm PT
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whos up for an A5?
depends -- are we talking A5b or A5c++?
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Nov 20, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
Nov 20, 2014 - 12:41am PT
I don't know why you think I'm a "Beyer Worshiper" just because I say that you do not quote the sources. I think quoting is just a matter of fairness.
And according to Intifada SA report from Jensen (you can find it here: http://jensenconsultations.com/climbing/intifada/intifada.html go there quickly, maybe Jensen decides to remove the web page as he did with the SA of Look out Danger! [www.conclusivesystems.com]):
https://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/
Damn Rivet, I'd expect you to act like an ass, but being stupid just doesn't live up to the high bar set by your troll account.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 20, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
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A5c+R/X *** should do in a pinch.
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timy
Sport climber
Durango
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Nov 20, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
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he is on record as stating that many of these "free" pitches are, for instance, first aided, then climbed on a fixed rope using an ascender, possibly with hangs.
That's his standard MO. At least that's how many of his routes were reported to me as guidebook contribution. Since much of the new routing being done at the time was the work of he and his disciples, it prompted the subtitle "A Guide To Area Freeclimbs ?". The question mark was just that, and it was hard do decipher just what tactics were being employed besides just straight aid climbing.
When you live on the fringe and climb on the fringe, inventing your own rating systems and such, it's easy to become a mythical figure in the game only you are playing.
Maestri-esque
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Nov 21, 2014 - 12:42am PT
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Thanks J-tree for expecting me to act like an ass and then calling me stupid, that explains much. I'm sure you also see wooden wedeges on the wall, maybe the same wooden wedges that Royal Robbins used during his trip to Catalonia in May 1966 (in Pedraforca massif together with his Catalan close friend Josep Manel Anglada).
But the thing is that www.conclusivesystems.com/danger doesn't work at all, at least in Barcelona. And as I usually quote the sources, you can see that Jensen admitted having "some problems" with the webpage in the past: threat 758 and 762 here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1827613&tn=740
Server problems or spiritual odyssey to erase evidences? Who knows...
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