Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Ron do you have to show your papers at "Patriot" check points to get to work?
Or is your Oath Keeper badge sufficient?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Maybe because I resent the fear mongering that has people amass personal arsenals.
Maybe because I am offended by people who are more paranoid that the Government is out to take away all the guns and not concerned in the least with American children going to bed hungry. Maybe I am sick to death of people who think the Constitution has only a single Ammendment. Maybe I am disgusted with people who believe everyone has a right to carry a gun everywhere or that teachers should be armed while Federal LEOs should be unarmed.
What's your excuse?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
So JRig why do you assume that I addressed you directly?
Are you just one of "You people" who automatically get defensive about an innate sense of guilt by association that no one expresses.
I grew up around guns and mostly responsible gun owners.
I am no marksman but can assure you I can hit what I aim at with a variety of firearms.
I have no problems with guns just crazy gun-huggers that hold irrational and irresponsible attitudes about their "God given" rights to have what ever they want with out restriction..
If you are not one of those folks then I have no problem with you.
Have I ever posted a direct to you insult?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Education and healthcare are probably more important to me, but i dont think guns are the evil thing you make them out to be.
I recognize guns dont belong everywhere, or to everyone. Unfortunately your rants don't usually don't give that impression.
.... im just another gun-toting ass. Unfortunately you do give that impression most of the time.
I've got no gripe at all with responsible gun ownership. Which is precisely why responsible gun owners should not mind responsible and rational regulations.
Do you want any whacko, drunk/doped/irresponsible/15 year old driving automobiles?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Meanwhile the "Castle doctrine" is doing it's job in Montana
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27243115
Mr Kaarma, a 29-year-old firefighter, has told investigators his home had twice been hit by burglars, and he told a hair stylist he had waited up at night to shoot intruders, prosecutors said.
On the night of the shooting, Mr Kaarma and his partner Janelle Pflager left their garage door open, and Ms Pflager left her purse in the garage in order to bait intruders, she told police.
They set up motion sensors and a video monitor, prosecutors said.
When the sensors went off just after midnight and they saw a man on the monitor screen, Mr Kaarma went outside and fired a shotgun into the garage without warning several times.
It is unclear what the teenager was doing inside in the garage.
The victim was a 17 year old German exchange student at a Missoula high school.
Why was he in the garage? good question
Should he have been in the garage? of course not
Should he have been murdered?
Sure the murderer is a whacko and will most likely be convicted. Unfortunately these pathetic "Castle doctrine" philosophies (thank you ALEC and NRA) encourage this kind of murder and mayhem.
Trayvon Martin?
ENOUGH fer gawd's sake.
|
|
Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
It sounds like two as#@&%es with guns playing out violent fantasies.
Where is the backstory?
Simple as something. There are no good gun tales. Disaster averted is the best that you get with a chance of killing innocents.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
There are no good gun tales. Disaster averted is the best that you get with a chance of killing innocents. A very good point.
I spend a lot of time in the mountains and woods. If bullets came at me from across the canyon I wouldn't assume it was aimed at me but I'd sure as heck take cover and wait a while.
There's a guy down the canyon below me who bangs away with a Very Large Caliber gun every now and then. I'd guess 0.50 cal. I've called the Sheriff a couple of times. Not as a complaint, he has a right (unfortunately) but to let them know he's there. In fact, the fire dept will not go down several of those roads without Sheriff escort and the last time they went down on a fire, in the vicinity of the Big Gun, the Sheriff waited for CHP backup. They couldn't put men on the fire line for nearly an hour. Fortunately the air attack kept it contained from my friends' houses just up the slope. I live at the head of that canyon. I was not amused.
Would you have fired back at a 50cal with your 357? Mebbe you should start packing a 50cal or at least an AK-47
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
jr
Now you want to defend the guy saying, maybe he wasnt shooting at me?! I said nothing of the sort. I have no idea if he had criminal intent or is just plain careless, stupid or demented. Clearly he should NOT have a gun.
I clearly did NOT file a complaint about the 50cal. I didn't ask for it to be investigated, I didn't say who it is, I don't know who it is. He's been doing it off and on for 10 years, including 20 or so rounds about 2 weeks ago. I see nothing wrong with warning the Sheriff when someone is firing a cannon in a populated area.
I didn't say he was doing anything illegal. Plenty of heavy caliber and high rate fire on weekends at the two ranges within 2 miles of me.
I've got many armed friends and neighbors. There are one or two hotheads I'd worry about if they were in a drunken fight with their wives. One who is well armed, carries in his truck and I know has been beating his wife. She finally left with the teenage boys a few months ago so she's now marginally safer.
I've also lost a lady friend and close neighbor to gun suicide, in her living room, with her husband in the house. And a 21 year old depressed neighbor boy who killed himself with an unsecured rifle.
When that kind of tragedy stops I'll let up on gun safety and responsibility.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Where'd The Chief go?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
^^^ sssshhhhh.....you'll wake the Troll
(I've been wondering the same)
|
|
Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
Johnny writes:
You know, i could condemn the other as#@&%es with guns just the same as you, and still you,d just view me as another typical as#@&%e gun nut. Guess thats part of my attitude, that people like you fail to differentiate.
Its ok though, you have the freedom to be biased and the right to mouth your bias."
Humor me here. What if he was just like you? Just an innocent recreational gun user looking for some gun time. What if he never even saw you? Or thought you were an animal. People have bad eyesight. If that is true then you were knowingly shooting your gun toward another human being. That was the best solution that you had.
We both agree that there was at least one irresponsible and deadly gun user that day. I just think that you and he are cut from the same dangerous mold. I think that it's clear that you are willing to point your 357 toward people.
Thanks HighT. Keep up the good fight.
|
|
Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
You could humor me and address the possibility that you were shooting your 357 at a similarly unaware gun recreationalist.
Did you just drop an "I know you are but what am I?"
Just FYI if you had killed that guy your kids would have probably grown up without you as you would have been hard pressed to prove he had a motive. Human error on his part followed by reactionary violence is not a foolproof defense strategy.
So you are correct that you are not responsible enough for me. Exactly.
It would have been a nice day in the woods except for the gun nuts shooting at eachother, right?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
jr
I'm not assuming anything about your gun responsibility and safety beyond your words which I find at minimum careless
why law enforcement and fire would have issues with a guy whos done nothing wrong I think you missed something:
The fire crews have orders to not go in some of those roads to fight a fire without LEO backup. Precisely because there are a number of well armed whackos "survivalists" down there.
It has nothing to do with going after "a guy who's done nothing wrong". It has everything to do with the safety of unarmed fire fighting crews trying to protect private property.
There are also a few meth labs. Now THERE's a public safety problem. When they catch fire, the LEOs secure the perimeter and the fire companies just stay back, stop it from spreading and let it burn to the ground. For their own safety.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
There's a guy down the canyon below me who bangs away with a Very Large Caliber gun every now and then. you're right, I did not say they were whackos, I thought that was implicit. There are several more down there with rapid fire weapons who really don't like visitors. This is in thick forest. No LEOs go in there without a backup car. In most cases law enforcement leaves them be. It's safer that way for all concerned. When they go in after pot grow it's the DEA who come in. Usually by chopper. Killed one of the surprised growers when he aimed at an agent a couple of years ago.
All within a few miles of Silly Valley.
I also have a right. A right to expect a safe neighborhood. Free from stray bullets (not a big worry), safe for fire fighters, safe for LEOs (big worries). I take responsibility for helping the fire fighters and LEOs go about their lawful business in safety.
Especially since it is mountain forest/wilderness. City Slickers have other worries, maybe even bigger ones.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
OK
directed at me
You know, i could condemn the other as#@&%es with guns just the same as you, and still you,d just view me as another typical as#@&%e gun nut. Guess thats part of my attitude, that people like you fail to differentiate. I don't think I'd given you any reason for this. I thought it a bit careless. Was I hurt? Hell no, i've got thick skin.
Anyway let's drop that bit.
Carry on.
EDIT: right-O
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
As long as cigarette smoking is legal in this country, you'll get no sympathy from me regarding gun-related deaths. Gun-related deaths pale in comparison to cigarette-related deaths, particularly among kids, and you can't even start to float a "need" or "useful" argument regarding cigarettes. Furthermore, nobody thought to explicitly wrap an amendment in the Bill of Rights around the right to smoke cigarettes (particularly around kids).
When the hand-wringing around here takes on a shred of consistency, then maybe there can be a semi-valid and perhaps even remotely useful discussion. Until then, there are just entrenched "sides," neither of which is putting guns into a big-picture perspective, imho.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
You joke, but that kind of stuff actually happens, and a LOT more than do school shootings or a kid accidentally getting killed by a gun that's left laying around.
Funny how if I were to joke in exactly the same way about a school shooting, I'm suddenly an "inhuman jerk [expletive deleted]," etc., etc. Actually, BOTH forms of joking are inappropriate! But you can get away with it (somehow) regarding the FAR higher number of deaths caused by tobacco. Go figure.
The media finds it sexy to report the relatively rare incidents of kids dying from guns. But there's nothing sexy about reporting orders of magnitude more deaths from cigarettes. Of course, the feds have been subsidizing tobacco production for decades and decades (your tax dollars at work!), so it's better for the taxpayers to just not tumble to the fact that we're paying and paying and paying for all the killing caused by the little death-sticks.
Yup, far better to keep everybody's attention all wound up over the "divisive" issue of guns.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Hey Madbolter do you realize that cigarettes have lots of restrictions and can't be sold minors?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
As long as cigarette smoking is legal in this country...... Plenty of blame to go around there all right. My mother died of smoking related disease. I grew up in second hand smoke. I'm waiting for my turn.
So where were the first non-smoking restaurant laws in the US?
Among the first were those Liberal Bastions of Sausalito, Los Gatos, Palo Alto and San Francisco CA.
The same San Francisco where Supervisor Feinstein saw the Mayor and colleagues gunned down by a Right Wing Whacko. The same San Francisco where as Mayor there was a mass shooting in the financial district that killed several people. The same San Francisco where Senator Feinstein who wrote the now eviscerated Assault Weapons Ban still lives.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!