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Messages 1 - 219 of total 219 in this topic
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
at last, I can nightclub with the security and certitude of life-taking ability within reach at all time! can I get a triple Jack and Ginger with that, short?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
DMT :)
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
Don't bring a gun to a grenade fight.
John M

climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
western towns use to make people check their guns while in town.




I guess it wouldn't be very manly to go around displaying your chit for your gun.










gun violence should now go down.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
I believe the U.S.A should implement strict rock control laws.
Rock caused and or related rock violence is on the rise since laws promoting the use of rocks has increased.
Please help end the violence, lets get some sensible rock banning laws.
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
What we need is more gun control , like Chicago has , the strictest in the nation, as evidenced by these figures from last weekend:

At Least 8 Dead, 44 Wounded In Weekend Shootings

Clearly what this country needs for sanity and safety is to take the guns out of the hands of ordinary people and put them into the hands of politically protected gangs and potential mass murderers on psychiatric medication.
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
yes, those politicians and their gang affiliations really are the problem here. if we just get some guns into nightclubs it will get better.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
This should be a good experiment.

I'll bet the murder rate after a year will be higher in the places with the strictest gun control - Chicago, California, D.C. - than it will be in Georgia.

The science will then be settled.
John M

climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Edit; Chaz's post highlights what I am saying..

So Ward, how long until gun violence goes down in Georgia? That is what the gun lovers contend isn't it? that if everyone carried, fewer people would be tempted to use a gun. And fewer people will die because someone with a legal gun will shoot the bad guy.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 02:57pm PT

yes, those politicians and their gang affiliations really are the problem here. if we just get some guns into nightclubs it will get better.

"Gang affiliations" is called "community organizin' " in Chicago.
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
this fellow concurs that gun ownership is the pinnacle of freedom
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Everywhere, except anywhere the Gov. Dean conducts business because, you guessed it, that's special...
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:07pm PT
Aim low, more hits.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
Archie Bunker recommended arming airline passengers to prevent hijackings. It was satire, now reality. The extremists are winning.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:13pm PT


Edit; Chaz's post highlights what I am saying..

So Ward, how long until gun violence goes down in Georgia? That is what the gun lovers contend isn't it? that if everyone carried, fewer people would be tempted to use a gun. And fewer people will die because someone with a legal gun will shoot the bad guy.

It means that ordinary people , who obey the law , will now be able to protect themselves in an environment where armed sociopathic lawbreakers currently hold the clear advantage.

The problem with gun controllers is that they don't trust ordinary, law.-abiding people, nor will they make the distinction between the law-abiding and the criminal.

I've got news for you---as far as Georgia is concerned you and I both know that a huge number of people have been secretly packing there anyway---for quite some time.
Why isn't the gun violence rate as high as those parts of the country, like Chicago, where gun control is the strictest in the nation?
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:14pm PT

This should be a good experiment.

I'll bet the murder rate after a year will be higher in the places with the strictest gun control - Chicago, California, D.C. - than it will be in Georgia.

The science will then be settled.

Actually your control group already has a much higher murder rate.

That's the definition of a BAD experiment.

Nice try though.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
Now here's a situation that, if it can't be straightened out with a gun, what are guns good for?

When U.S. Army Spc Michael Sharkey was deployed to Afghanistan two years ago, he could never imagine that he would have to wage a legal battle just to get his Florida house back from a pair of ex-convicts who had settled there in his absence.
Sharkey and his wife, Danielle, live in Wahiawa, Hawaii, where the soldier is currently stationed, but in a little over a month, the family are expected to return to New Port Richey, Florida, where they own a house.
However, the Sharkeys' homecoming has been complicated by the presence of squatters in their one-story residence in the 6800 block of Westend Avenue.

According the solider and his wife, the strangers had broken into their home, changed the locks and are refusing to leave.
To add insult to injury, officials at the Pasco County Sheriff's department have informed the couple that they have no legal grounds to evict the man and woman.
The couple living in Sharkey’s home, identified as Julio Ortiz and his girlfriend, Fatima Cardoso, have offered a different version of events.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610917/Outrage-pair-ex-convict-squatters-Florida-home-Afghan-war-veteran-refuse-leave.html
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^
What does " Nazi" have to do with the issue of gun control?

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
The states with highest levels of gun violence:

Louisiana
Alaska
Alabama
Arizona
Mississippi
South Carolina
New Mexico
Missouri
Arkansas
Georgia
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
It means that ordinary people , who obey the law , will now be able to protect themselves in an environment where armed sociopathic lawbreakers currently hold the clear advantage.

The problem is all of those people toting guns, thinking they're "ordinary".

There is a lot of gray area between your sociopaths and ordinary people. IMHO a lot of those in the gray area carry guns for their jobs. Maybe Andy Griffith had it right, make Barney keep his bullet (singular) in his pocket. :-)
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:27pm PT
There is a lot of gray area between your sociopaths and ordinary people. IMHO a lot of those in the gray area carry guns for their jobs. Maybe Andy Griffith had it right, make Barney keep his bullet (singular) in his pocket. :-)

Clearly the cure for gang violence in Chicago is to convince the cops there to keep a bullet in their top pocket

The problem is all of those people toting guns, thinking they're "ordinary".

My definition of "ordinary" in this context is someone that is not bent on robbing and murdering their fellow citizens .
Sociopaths are starkly different than ordinary people. This is news to some people.
John M

climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
So Ward, please be clear. Do you believe that this will deter gun violence? Because as Chaz implies, people would be foolish to use a gun when so many people around them could be armed.

Or is it that you just feel safer if you are allowed to carry a gun?


and by the way.. I am well aware of how many people carry guns around with them. And I'm not necessarily for more gun control.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
That's right, more guns is the solution. Crikey, it's amazing just how ignorantly gullible people can be.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:35pm PT


















What's next?



















.....





















ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
I was being sarcastic, but the point is that it is just as ridiculous to put guns everywhere in public as it is to make (most) law enforcers put their bullets in their pockets.

I wonder if the majority of law enforcement professionals would support more guns in the public? Maybe in some specific communities, but from the ones I've talked to, they want less firearms, not more on the street.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
It means that ordinary people , who obey the law , will now be able to protect themselves in an environment where armed sociopathic lawbreakers currently hold the clear advantage.

You mean we get to protect ourselves from Teabagging gun nuts? Sounds good!
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
That's right, more guns is the solution. Crikey, it's amazing just how ignorantly gullible people can be.

They should be instituting more gun control. Like they've done in Chicago.

You mean we get to protect ourselves from Teabagging gun nuts? Sounds good!

What does " tea bagging gun nuts". have to do with the broader issue of gun control?
Oh I get it---that's funny.
Especially coming from an avowed Commie totalitarian.

Don't Communists eventually completely outlaw guns, and other sticky issues ---like religion and freedom of speech?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 23, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
Show me one place where the violent crime rate is driven by "Teabagging gun nuts".

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:01pm PT


Silliness aside, my question is:

Why hasn't Chicago, with some of the strictest gun control in the nation, become a placid paradise of very low gun violence?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
I'm betting 3000 posts in less than 7 days...

And under/overs?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:20pm PT

No more MYTHS

The jury is out, the states with the most gun ownership are the same states with most gun deaths.




The study, published in the American Journal of Public Heath, examines the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to increased gun violence.

It is the largest study conducted to date into the correlation between gun ownership and firearms violence, and the first to comprehensively examine the issue since the tragic shooting last December of 20 children and 7 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.



Covering 30 years (1981-2010) in all 50 states, the report shows a “robust correlation” between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides. For each 1 percentage point increase in the prevalence of gun ownership, the state firearm homicide rate increases by 0.9 percent, the authors found.

“Understanding the relationship between the prevalence of gun ownership and therefore the availability of guns, and firearm-related mortality is critical to guiding decisions regarding recently proposed measures to address firearm violence,” the study authors say.

Researchers led by Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at the Boston University School of Public Health, examined data for the years 1981-2010 on state firearm homicide rates from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention’s Web-Based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System (WISQUARS) database.

HOW THE ANALYSIS WAS CONDUCTED
State levels of gun ownership were estimated using a well-established proxy variable: the percentage of a state’s suicides that are committed with a firearm (FS/S). Because there is no state-level survey that measures household gun ownership, researchers have widely relied upon the FS/S proxy in injury prevention research, and this proxy has been extensively validated in past studies. The proxy correlates highly with survey measures of household firearm ownership, the authors say.

The researchers used regression analysis to examine the relationship between state levels of gun ownership and firearm homicide rates, while controlling for a range of potential state-level confounding variables, including: age, gender, race/ethnicity, urbanization, poverty, unemployment, income, education, divorce rate, alcohol use, violent crime rate, nonviolent crime rate, number of hunting licenses, age-adjusted non-firearm homicide rate, incarceration rate, and suicide rate.

The regression model predicted that each 1 percentage point increase in gun ownership increases a state’s firearm homicide rate by 0.9 percent, translating into a 12.9 percent increase in the gun homicide rate for each one standard deviation increase in gun ownership.

All other factors being equal, for example, the model predicts that if the gun ownership estimate for Mississippi were 58 percent (the average for all states), instead of 77 percent (the highest of all states), its firearm homicide rate would be 17 percent lower.

The results of the research are consistent with previous studies that have demonstrated a correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher levels of firearm homicide.

PUBLIC POLICY IMPLICATIONS?
Siegel notes that the study did not determine causation, allowing that it is theoretically possible that people are more likely to purchase guns if they live in states with higher levels of firearm homicide. But he says the issue warrants further study.

“In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, last year, many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.

“It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates,” he says.

http://www.futurity.org/shooting-deaths-states-gun-owners/
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:23pm PT
People who follow the rules can protect themselves and their families from people who don’t follow the rules,
So let's get this clear. Cowman Cliven Bundy's the rule breaker yet the "militias" were protecting him.

It means that ordinary people , who obey the law , will now be able to protect themselves in an environment where armed sociopathic lawbreakers currently hold the clear advantage.
Orwellian conclusion. Who were the armed sociopathic lawbreakers at Ranch Bundy?
No, the "militias" didn't break the law......this time......but they certainly threatened to in defiance of Federal Law. Remember Bundy is the lawbreaker.

The problem with gun controllers is that they don't trust ordinary, law.-abiding people, nor will they make the distinction between the law-abiding and the criminal.
Wrong on both counts.
I trust "ordinary law abiding people" as long as they remain law abiding. I've got plenty of good trustworthy friends who are well armed.
I am perfectly capable of distinguishing between the law-abiding and the criminal.
Too bad you aren't.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
HOW THE ANALYSIS WAS CONDUCTED
State levels of gun ownership were estimated using a well-established proxy variable: the percentage of a state’s suicides that are committed with a firearm (FS/S). Because there is no state-level survey that measures household gun ownership, researchers have widely relied upon the FS/S proxy in injury prevention research, and this proxy has been extensively validated in past studies. The proxy correlates highly with survey measures of household firearm ownership, the authors say.

What this means is that they didn't have any real numbers to prove their case so they "jimmied " some.
This type of propaganda masquerading as objective science is becoming more and more common in Washington these days.

Meanwhile the facts figures about Chicago , and other gun control fiefdoms, are clear and undisputed and begs the question :
With the strictest gun control in the nation why are these areas awash in gun violence.?
Last weekend in Chicago 8 killed and 44 wounded.


Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
Maybe they just want more people to make bad decisions with a gun that could have been sorted without. Toss them into the walmart prisons.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
The first time I went to Georgia it was legal to have a loaded gun and an open container in your car while driving. They had big barrels of "singles" floating in ice by the door in the gas stations.

We lived in Lawrenceville, GA (affectionately known as Larryville because Larry Flynt was shot and paralyzed at the courthouse there while on trial for pornography by some whacko) for a few years. There were some scary "ordinary" people there.

Under the new law you have to opt out of letting people carry in your bar, rather than vice versa. In the old days they used to ask you not to take your gun into a bar, for obvious reasons.

We are Devo, D-e-v-o
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:31pm PT

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
Hey Marlow, is it warm?

Between Georgia and Florida they won't need cops any more. The "ordinary" citizens will be able to decide when deadly force is necessary and mete out their own justice.

Sounds like a big improvement...
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
The correlation between gun deaths and private firearms ownership holds across nations.
Two years ago I collected international gun death data and guns/person data.

I then plotted the data. The correlation is both visually obvious and the correlation coefficient Rsquared is 0.8 which is extraordinarily high.

So let's make it even easier for your "sociopaths" to get guns. It will make you feel safer.
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
you'z guys is like a bunch of....[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
Well, WHY? Why do you ask rhetorical questions about places historically awash in violence?

Its not a rhetorical question. If someone has an answer I'd like to hear why the gun control laws there have not stemmed the outrageous gun violence in one of the nation's most violent areas?

The correlation between gun deaths and private firearms ownership holds across nations.

You mean the gun deaths from high gun control ares like Chicago have driven the stats up so high that we'll never hope to catch up to countries like Austria ?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:45pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
It has much to do with structural inequality.


the results of
https://www.soc.umn.edu/~uggen/Blau_ASR_82.pdf
imply that
if there is a culture of violence, its roots are pronounced economic inequalities

how is that for a turd in your teabag soup? and no, I am not a Kenyan imperialist marxist


butt I may be a fly on sh#t.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
if there is a culture of violence, its roots are pronounced economic inequalities

Here we go again. At least you were game enough to offer some kind of an an answer---such as it is.

Then why hasn't gun control stopped this violence?

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
So the GOP supports economic inequality and more gun ownership....makes perfect sense now. That is one way to deal with overpopulation.

You go, Georgia!

**

Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal signed a new gun law Wednesday that greatly expands the number of public places where licensed owners are allowed to carry their weapons. Critics have called the law “extreme,” while the National Rifle Association lauded it as an “historic victory for the Second Amendment. What does the Safe Carry Protection Act really do? Here’s a brief list of the major changes ahead for Georgians when the law takes effect July 1:


1) Bars

Before the new law, gun owners were not allowed to bring their firearms into bars unless the bar owner specifically allowed it. But under the Safe Carry Protection Act, the emphasis is reversed. A patron can bring guns into bars unless the owner tells him or her to leave.

2) Churches

Church leaders will now be able to decide whether to allow their congregations to bring guns into their buildings. Right now, bringing guns into houses of worship is illegal. Under the Safe Carry Protection Act, if a gun license holder brings a gun into church against the wishes of that church’s leaders, the gun owner will be fined $100. If a non-license holder brings a gun to that same church, he or she will be guilty of a misdemeanor.

3) Schools

Local school boards will now be allowed to vote on whether they want to let teachers and other members of the school’s staff bring guns to campus. The staff members will apply to the school board, and they will go through training that includes “judgment pistol shooting,” “marksmanship,” and a review of Georgia’s laws about shooting people to defend yourself and others. If a teacher doesn’t want to carry the gun at all times, he or she will have to store it in a safe or lock box. Previously, a licensed owner could bring a gun to school if an “authorized official of the school” gave permission.

4) Airports

Licensed gun owners will be allowed to have firearms in airport common areas and if they accidentally bring their guns to airport security checkpoints, they will be allowed to pick up their weapon and leave without criminal penalty. They will not, of course, be able to take their gun past the TSA checkpoint, which remains a federal matter.

5) Government buildings

Licensed gun owners will be allowed to bring their weapons into unsecured government buildings -- in other words, those buildings that don't have security checkpoints or metal detectors. Supporters say this provision was intended to help rural counties that don't have the funds to hire full-time security personnel. Gun owners still won't be able to bring weapons into, say, Atlanta City Hall or the Georgia State Capitol.

6) No database of gun owners

The law will prevent the state of Georgia from creating and maintaining a database of licensed owners.

7) No fingerprinting

The law will eliminate the fingerprinting requirement for renewing weapons carry licenses.

***

Why can't you bring them into the State Capital or City Hall?
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

too sore to go climbing but too sick of the punch doll to stick around. ack!
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
Why are you claiming that the laws have not "stemmed" gun violence?

Chicago has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation.
And yet:
Last weekend 8 murdered and 44 wounded.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 23, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
Show me one place where the violent crime rate is driven by "Teabagging gun nuts".



Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:03pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ referring to the photos.

Attention gun control advocates: you'll have to do something about the tin foil hat commie totalitarians in your ranks if you expect to:
1) somehow have the 2nd amendment overturned or reinterpreted and reverse 200 years of precedent.
2) Convince enough people to enact Chicago-style gun control house by house ,city by city
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:03pm PT
they can easily get more elsewhere
Like just across the border in Kentucky
Subject/Law Long Guns Handguns Relevant Statutes Notes
State permit to purchase? No No
Firearm registration? No No
"Assault weapon" law? No No
Magazine Capacity Restriction? No No
Owner license required? No No
Concealed Carry permits issued? No Yes KRS § 237.110
Open Carry? Yes Yes May carry openly without permit/license.
State preemption of local restrictions? Yes Yes KRS § 65.870 Exception: KRS § 237.115 allows the following entities to restrict concealed carry:
Postsecondary educational institutions
Any unit of government within the state in buildings that it owns, leases, or occupies – however, concealed carry is allowed in highway rest areas, public housing, and private dwellings
NFA weapons restricted? No No
Peaceable journey laws? No No

KRS § 237.104 prohibits the state from seizing firearms from private citizens in the event of a disaster or emergency.
Suppressors are legally transferable in Kentucky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Kentucky
awww shucks in Kentucky you can't get a concealed carry permit for a long gun. Ya mean I can't slip my ole M1 down my pants leg? Guess I'll have to walk down main street with it over my shoulder like a Real Man. And my town can't ban firearms in the cowboy bar down by the stockyards where the cops have to break up a fight nearly every Saturday night. Nor the bar in the "ghetto" where the gang bangers shoot it out over drug deals.
Just makes me feel so durned safe in Kentucky
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
can one imagine what the firearm murder rate in Chicago would be with looser gun laws?

what about New York CIty?

with the toughest gun control laws and very low per capita firearm murder rates?

Alaska, very high proportion of gun owners and very high per capita death by firearm

Massachusettes, very tight gun laws, low firearm murder rate

Chicago is an outlier with almost 3 million people, the rate of guns should be much higher,
Chicago's geographic pockets of gun violence correlate stronger to urban poverty centers

the entire "south", very loose gun laws, high rates of firearm deaths

the jury has been out of this for a long time now
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
And what were the numbers in your control group?

Insisting that one have a control group to simply state the fact and ask the question why Chicago ,with the strictest gun control ,has the highest level of violence of any city in the nation--- is a red herring.

Were double-blind controls conducted to justify the passing of these gun control laws?
Probably ---but they no doubt contained too much "proxy" data.

John M

climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
Johnyrig, sorry about your loss.



please note though that as a liberal I have never been for completely taking away guns.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
I'm good with white people having all the guns we need, as long as it stays there.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:26pm PT

Why are you claiming that the laws have not "stemmed" gun violence?

What is your control group?

Burden of proof is on you, brah!

In a (generally) free society, seems that the "burden of proof" should be on the ones who would like to restrict other's freedoms.
But that's just my non-statist viewpoint--I suppose others could say everything should be illegal unless the government deigns to allow some action. Sure that's not really consistent with the Constitution, but neither is excessive gun control, and that doesn't seem to slow some of you down too much.

Varying gun control laws by state does seem to be a good example of the "laboratories of democracy" expression used by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. We've got something like that going on in Colo. with "legalized" (under state law, not not federal law) MJ. We'll see how it works out (pretty well so far, seem to be the mainstream consensus), and then other states can do what they want (provided the federal government doesn't come down on 'em, which it could at any time).
thebravecowboy

climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
"In a move sure to leave gun safety advocates scratching their heads, Iowa is issuing gun permits to the blind...."
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130908/NEWS/309080061/?odyssey=nav|head
jstan

climber
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
Maybe three years ago one of Yvon's neighbors left the master bedroom when he heard a burglar
downstairs. The burglar was armed of course since owners are now presumed to have guns. Burglars
too need to be able to defend themselves.

Some statistics:
US shootings: 30/day, that comes to 11,000 per year

US violent crimes: 1,214,462 per year

Since everyone needs self defense, when guns are more prevalent more of those 1,214,462 violent crimes will
involve guns.

Presently less than 1% of all violent crimes involve the use of a gun.

Big room for increase here.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
Gun laws have been tested by a hodgepodge of standards, but even if strict scrutiny (the most restrictive standard) is applied, most gun laws have still passed muster.

Strict scrutiny is a 3 part test:

The government must

a) show a compelling interest for the restriction
b) narrowly tailor its restriction to serve that interest and
c) use the least restrictive means to accomplish that

A useful thing to know when discussing gun laws. Keep in mind this is the most stringent standard in our jurisprudence. Many less stringent standards have been applied to uphold gun laws.

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 23, 2014 - 05:55pm PT
Most gun deaths are suicides (2/3), and 10% are accidents. Guns are the third leading cause of premature death in the United States - a number that is rapidly approaching vehicular accidents.

Most gun murders are people who know each other - primarily spouse, shooting each other.

More guns means more of the above...or is my logic somehow flawed?

Instances of Man Defending Castle are fantastically rare, even if such events capture both headlines and the imaginations of a certain proportion of our population. Every gun proponent can cite one - although very few of those personally know anyone involved in such an incident. Few of a cross section of the general population can, however.

In an interview with an armed witness of Gabby Giffords shooting, a highly trained, experienced concealed weapons carrier, admitted that he very nearly shot the man trying to protect her, thinking in the heat of the moment that he was the shooter. So much for 'stopping mass shootings by arming the population'. Given that half our population doesn't believe in the Big Bang - yeah...forgive my lack of confidence in my fellow citizen to do a job highly trained cops screw up on a regular basis.

Hmmm.

The question of why such a large percentage of our (overwhelmingly male) population spends so much time fantasizing about killing someone is an interesting question in its own right, although it rarely gets much air time before the yalling starts in public debates.

You'd think more women would join in (there is a huge gender gap with regards to support for gun control), given their far greater risk of assault, but they don't.

Hmmm. Maybe they're onto something.

Now I'm not suggesting that this issue is infused with a mountain of absolute bullshit or anything. I can't imagine that happening in this deliberative, truth seeking, peace loving nation of ours.

Arm everyone all the time. It's safer.

That makes perfect sense to me. That crazy guy that goes yelling up and down my street? Have a gun, buddy.

Of course, the government will monitor his mental state through backround checks...whoops! Strike that. And the monitoring such an individual to the degree required to predict his propensity for violence wouldn't violate his constitutional rights at all. Or should we monitor everyone? I guess we'd have to, wouldn't we? I see nothing that could go wrong there. Small price to pay to satisfy some Hero Fantasies. Hint: buy a shotgun for that, guys. Better for your neighbors, no gun control required. Or better yet - get a dog.

Eventually, we'll have the same low gun violence rates we enjoyed in certain Wild West towns, when the dream of ubiquitous guns was finally realized.

Perfect sense.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 23, 2014 - 06:06pm PT

I don't understand using Chicago as the yardstick to "support" the position that tougher gun control laws correlate to more firearm deaths.

Of course Chicago has a lot of gun deaths, it also has 3 million people.

---------------


Study after study regarding State laws and per capita gun deaths come to the same conclusion: -- the states with the loosest laws have the higher proportion of gun deaths.

examples----Alaska for one, and then entire southern United States - highest gun deaths

examples: Massachusettes has the toughest gun control laws and the least gun deaths

how many times does this clear correlation need to be pointed out?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 23, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
Yeah, but people in Boston have a life.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 23, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
Pull out a broad sword and a gun and see which one gets more attention.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 23, 2014 - 07:23pm PT
Is this chair a low blow, Dingus?[Click to View YouTube Video]

Rhetorical questions abound around gun threads.

What if they asked a rhetorical question and nobody understood it? Is it still rhetorical, or does it graduate to a "Great Unknown?"

What if we banned gunpowder and then we can just bludgeon each other with rifle butts and pistol-whip our GFs.

"It's more exhausting than pulling triggers, plus there's some sexual release, for some of us. I can never find my bullets, anyway."--Barney Fife.

Guns get waaay too much attention around here, ya know...

"Only you can end gun threads."--Gunsmokey
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 23, 2014 - 07:44pm PT
Don't feed the trolls Chief.

Just let him sit about 8' to your side when you shoot that thing.

LOL
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 23, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
Hey, get off my back. I just shelled out for a Les Baer SWAT Monolith with Swarovski glass.

Half mile is now no prob, and my follow up is faster.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 23, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
Dave Kos, its not the size; its where its been!

Just ask yer sister.




Yeah, Chief, bolts rule!

I like the way Kali's ban on the .50 gave rise to a round with superior ballistics.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 23, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
I've got 2 M1A1s and 2 SOCCOMS and was just talking to Jody about that.

Is it legal with that 20 rounder?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 23, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
Chief...that's on my wish list after i pay off the laser-guided sawzall ....rj
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 23, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
Typical ignorant LIBTARD DUMBASS comment.

Way to come out classy.



It was a joke. Something you'd get except for the operectomy you had.


































































Operectomy that's where they connect your optic nerve to your rectum and give you a shitty outlook on life.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 23, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
Definition of CHUFF

: boor, churl
Origin of CHUFF

Middle English chuffe
First Known Use: 15th century
Rhymes with CHUFF

bluff, buff, chough, cuff, duff, fluff, gruff, guff, huff, luff, muff, puff, rough, ruff, scruff, scuff, slough, snuff, sough, stuff, tough, tuff
2chuff intransitive verb
Definition of CHUFF

: to produce noisy exhaust or exhalations : proceed or operate with chuffs
Origin of CHUFF

imitative
First Known Use: 1914
3chuff noun
Definition of CHUFF

: the sound of noisy exhaust or exhalations
First Known Use of CHUFF

1915
Learn More About CHUFF


View Seen & Heard highlights from around the site »
Merriam-Webster on Facebook



chuff
anglo-slang for snatch, vagina.
"How's the weather in Phoenix?"

"Dryer than a nun's chuff."

15th century, dialectical, in noun sense “stupid fellow”.[1][2] Adjective sense “surly, displeased” from 1832.[2]

Adjective[edit]
chuff (comparative more chuff, superlative most chuff)

(UK) Surly.
(UK, dialect) stupid; churlish
(Can we find and add a quotation of Wright to this entry?)
Synonyms[edit]
(surly): chuffy
(swollen): chuffy
Noun[edit]
chuff (plural chuffs)

A coarse or stupid fellow.
(Can we find and add a quotation of Shakespeare to this entry?)
Translations[edit]
[show ▼]A coarse or stupid fellow
Verb[edit]
chuff (third-person singular simple present chuffs, present participle chuffing, simple past and past participle chuffed)

(transitive, slang) To purposefully fail a standardized test in a conspicuous way.
Etymology 2[edit]
Onomatopoeic. Compare chug and puff.

Verb[edit]
chuff (third-person singular simple present chuffs, present participle chuffing, simple past and past participle chuffed)

(intransitive) To make noisy puffing sounds, as of a steam locomotive.  [quotations ▼]
(UK, informal) To break wind.
Translations[edit]
[show ▼]To make noisy puffing sounds
Noun[edit]
chuff (uncountable)

(scriptwriting, uncountable) Superfluous small talk that is free of conflict, offers no character development, description or insight, and does not advance the story or plot.
Etymology 3[edit]
1520s, in sense “swollen with fat”; circa 1860, British dialect, in sense “pleased”.[2] Possibly related to “coarse, stupid, fat-headed” sense.

Adjective[edit]
chuff (comparative more chuff, superlative most chuff)

(UK) Pleased.
(obsolete) Swollen with fat.
(vulgar slang, of cheeks) Swollen.
Derived terms[edit]
(pleased): chuffed
Noun[edit]
chuff (plural chuffs)

(vulgar slang) The vagina.
References[edit]
^ A Dictionary of the English Language Samuel Johnson (W Strahan ‧London, 15 April 1755)
↑ Jump up to: 2.0 2.1 2.2 “chuff” in Douglas Harper, Online Etymology Dictionary (2001).
“chuff” at The Septic’s Companion: A British Slang Dictionary

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 23, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
Wow, seems like some folks are getting wicked stiffy's over being able to kill from distance.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 23, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
My bullets shoot farther than your bullets.


Don't even need to see the cattle to make shredded beef.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 23, 2014 - 10:02pm PT
My local gun store requires all firearms to be unloaded and cased or sleeved prior to entering the store. They must be some wacko pinko commie gun control nuts. Or perhaps, having functioning brains in their heads, they realize that having loaded guns carried in public by untrained people is dangerous.

Georgia has now joined Arizona on my boycotted state list. Bloomberg and/or Gabby Giffords will get my dollars instead.

I don't want to take anyone's guns, but if you want to carry a loaded gun near me or my kids, I want you appropriately trained and regularly refreshed. If you want to buy a gun from anyone or anywhere, I want you to prove your eligibility, and if you sell it I want you to ensure the the eligibility of the buyer.

TE

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 23, 2014 - 10:06pm PT
There will be no change in Georgia one way or the other.

The only statistically significant change will be the increase in soaked panties among the hand wringing set.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 23, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
BOOOM!



KABOOM....Dead.



Bigass grin!

something's seriously wrong with you :-/

get help or KYS
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:20am PT
Those brave legislators of course excluded their own buildings from their right to carry law. Guns in bars, what could go wrong?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:15am PT
I don't want to take anyone's guns, but if you want to carry a loaded gun near me or my kids, I want you appropriately trained and regularly refreshed. If you want to buy a gun from anyone or anywhere, I want you to prove your eligibility, and if you sell it I want you to ensure the the eligibility of the buyer.

Regardless of anybody's sentiments regarding guns, it's pretty clear that the bar is not set NEARLY high enough in the issuance of driver's licenses! A whole lot of unnecessary maimings and deaths caused by people that are NOT "appropriatedly trained and regularly refreshed."

Somehow, people don't seem to think too much about it....
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Apr 24, 2014 - 07:05am PT
I wanna go to Georgia and carry a gun into an elementary school while wearing a speedo. It's legal now!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 24, 2014 - 08:14am PT
Sierra Ledge....What color speedo...?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Apr 24, 2014 - 08:17am PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 24, 2014 - 08:24am PT
Those are banned in Texas...for good reason...rj
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 24, 2014 - 09:09am PT
Philo, yer a raven lunatic sometimes, as we all are...

Chough titty, huh? :0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-billed_Chough

"Game and Gun points out that henry VIII placed a bounty on crows, choughs, and rooks."--A History of Ideas

This was a bad idea. The Tudors extended the bounties to many sorts of "vermin" birds and wildlife nearly became endangered/extinct BECAUSE OF GUNS!
--From the same book, but paraphrased.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Apr 24, 2014 - 09:42am PT
Thanks Ron. Deleted post. Just not interested.
overwatch

climber
Apr 24, 2014 - 10:21am PT
That is fairly obtainable long range shooting by just about anyone with the gear and the will.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 24, 2014 - 10:25am PT
?????

What do you call a family of amerikkklan patri-idiots on their way home from the local Rod n Gun club?

De-Ranged.



:-)
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:11am PT
Under the Safe Carry Protection Act, if a gun license holder brings a gun into church against the wishes of that church’s leaders, the gun owner will be fined $100. If a non-license holder brings a gun to that same church, he or she will be guilty of a misdemeanor.

This is the kind of thing that really makes me mad. It's bad enough that bringing a concealed weapon onto private property against the explicit wishes of the owner is treated like a parking ticket, but doing it when you don't even have a concealed weapon license is only a misdemeanor???

No wonder gun-nuts keep crying "enforce existing laws", even criminals have little to fear from laws like this. At this rate, soon it'll be perfectly legal to point a loaded gun at a Federal Law Enforcement Officer carrying out a court order...

TE



Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:30am PT
This thread gives me a powerful hankerin for some strange.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:47am PT
I figure spouting about firearms the way that the Chief does,
we fun-lovers ought to be so angry we could spit.

Instead, I am splitting my sides at his insistence that gun-lovers are the only ones who are right. This is the same old shitte but in a different set of threads.

How can you "debaters" reconcile spending time answering this foolish talk,
for that is what it is.

Numbers of people like the Chief are the biggest reason we have gun deaths in mass--because THEY GOTTA BE RIGHT at everyone else's expense. They are such good citizens.

Chief, your particular debating technique leaves me in stitches. Name-calling is such a winning gambit.

Get a grip on your hate and your fear of maybe being wrong, sir. Please?

And have a good life.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:48am PT
Qualifying for a Georgia CCW permit at one time also automatically covered for position of explosives. (If you had a CCW permit you could legally buy and possess dynamite or other explosives)

Wonder if that's still true?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:49am PT
Don't you reside in West Virginia? One of the MOST liberal of states in the nation when it comes to ownership and carrying of firearms AND speedos.

Another winner (SLR) that doesn't know nor understand the laws in the state which they currently reside.

Yeah, I was stopped and searched once going into Canada, because the Canadians didn't believe that someone from West Virginia wasn't packing. It was an ordeal.

But even so, carrying guns into government buildings and schools is still not legal here. (:
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:54am PT
Being serious, how many of you guys have actually killed someone with one of these, or is it all for show?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
At the remote risk that anyone would take any of Chief's posts seriously -

his numbers are, predictably, bullsh#t.

gun and traffic deaths are actually very close - within 10% of each other. In many states - UT, AK, WA, CA...gun deaths exceed traffic deaths.

The trends are key here, though. traffic deaths are on the decline - gun deaths are on the rise and have been on a remarkably steady, linear basis since 2000. The two will likely converge this or next year.

2/3 of gun deaths are suicides, and the vast majority of those are men who choose to leave a horrific mess for their survivors.

I needn't post link because they're all over the place from a variety of sources - and they all agree.

Non-hunting guns - high capacity mags, and all hand guns, should be regulated at least to the degree cars are, given the enormous and growing damage they do to America's public health and well being.

One interesting thing to note - gun deaths peaked in 1993, then markedly declined to a low in 2000, when they began rising again.



Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Yellow alert: You're within the 2500 m 'hate mongering admonishment high risk zone', DMT.

Beware of strange sporting mops.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 24, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
Gerg, I actually know some operators who are into double digits, but it is not a bragging point. The general public has a warped polarized view of mercenaries, seeing them as unprincipled guns for hire. Many are actually former soldiers who have demonstrated both effective skill sets and the psychological resistance to traumatic situations, and are highly scrupulous employees committed to worthwhile causes.


These threads are such a waste of bandwidth. Nobody ever changes their mind, and there is little useful info.
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 24, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
^^ ok thanks toker.
So then most of these photos from Chief etc are obviously taken in America, but they are preparing for their job in other war situations. Or do you mean they have double digits within America? (And they are not cops)
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
Don't get me wrong - I do loves me some swaggerin.

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
I'm not sure why pics of the longest running, most expensive military failure in US history should cause my chest to swell with patriotic pride, but that's probably just me. Frankly, I'm kind of embarrassed I helped fund such a predictable shitshow.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:12pm PT

2/3 of gun deaths are suicides, and the vast majority of those are men who choose to leave a horrific mess for their survivors.

Maybe, but check out US suicide rate compared to other countries--it's not especially high. And I don't see any clear link between countries that have high suicide rates and gun ownership.

(I've pointed this out before on other threads, and actually got an acknowledgement from someone that they learned something from my post--a rare occurrence on ST!)

Check out the suicide rate in Japan (super high, gun ownership super low) and Canada (almost the same suicide rate as US, but very different gun ownership).

It does seem that where guns are widely available, many people who choose to kill themselves will use guns. It's self-evident that guns are very effective at killing people, either the wielder or someone else.

Both suicide and gun ownership are complex topics, but it seems misguided to me to say something like "guns are bad cuz they cause people to kill themselves."
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
You don't need more than 3 rounds in a gun to kill any game animal, and that includes elephants. If so - consider another sport you might actually be good at.

And if you DO see an elephant out there - please wait six hours before resuming your hunt.

For home defense, don't be an as#@&%e. Use a shotgun.

The neighbors newborn baby 3 doors down with thank you later for it.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
Get a good look at those pics and quotes while you can...

They'll be gone when he refills his scripts!
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
Deer hunting

I like to use an AR-15 with hollow points

Some of em are right BIG fu ckers!
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
Guns don't 'cause' people to kill themselves. Mental illness does. Sure is easy to follow in impulse when there's one handy, though. Is yours a 'nothing to be done' argument? I don't subscribe to those when the problem is this big.

Same applies to shooting your old lady during an argument. Sure is easier than breaking out the baseball bat.

I see no problem regulating non hunting guns like cars - nor does the Constitution. After all, nobody's telling you you can't have a car. Both are lethal machines that kill a lot of people. Seems like the state has a compelling interest to keep track of those machines, given that both operate in the public sphere.

You may have a right to bear arms - and I have a right not get shot by you, accidentally or otherwise. I also have a right not to be intimidated by some f*#king coo coo clock who feels the need to festoon themselves Rambo style in public. You don't get to drive your car through a public park or a bar. Seems like such time/place/manner restrictions are appropriate for guns, as well. Fortunately, our jurisprudence agrees, even if some of our dysfunctional politics do not.

Ie, you're not the only one who has to live here, pal.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
If you've got five intruders, which you never will, keep 5 shotguns in the closet and STFU already,.

Or try being nicer to people.

Making all of society a shittier place because you're paranoid about the Latin Kings dropping by for coffee - well, who's problem is that, exactly?

I don't think its ours. Just a guess, there.

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
So take a look at the FBI chart the Chief referenced.
Don't cherry pick it. Hammers? 500 out of 12000+
4%
Give me a break.

Take the first two rows
Row 1: total number of murders
Row 2: total number of murders by firearm.
Take the quotient. Approx 2/3 of all murders in the period were by firearm.
Approx 2/3 of all murders in EACH year were by firearm.

Yes, the number of murders by firearm is diminishing.
Just as the total number murders is diminishing.

Any dimwit can see the correlation. Many nut cases can't.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
Winning hearts and minds zero at a time.

Every once in a while I feel the need to engage in a truly pointless debate with some truly malevolent people.

Good for the humility. And its nice to take an tour of Planet Ugly once in a while. Helps me appreciate where I live more, even if the weather doesn't.

Plus, who doesn't like seeing their name in uppercase bold italic large font?

If only...if only...keyboards could yell.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
This debate isn't about shotguns - it never was, and everyone on both sides knows it. It's not about you Dad's 30 30 or Colt 44 cap n ball, either.

It's about regulating handguns and rifles with high capacity magazines. You know, the toys one can kill a whole lot of people in a few minutes with.

Not that that ever happens or anything.

Alcohol is heavily regulated in WA - and every other state, BTW. So there's that. And drunk driving has been in rapid decline for decades - thanks to more stringent laws and regulation.

I always appreciate when the opposition helps my position out - as they so often do.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 24, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
Killin it!

(NPI)
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
This debate isn't really a debate at all. It's one big long commercial for the US arms industry - which knows that our failed foreign vacations are ending. Given that the country can no longer make payments on history's most bloated and expensive military, who's gonna buy all these cool new guns (civilian versions, of course) to keep sales up?

Yes, its about a minority of Americans who don't give a sh#t about self defense, really - they just love the toys. Many have been in the military (see paragraph 1), thanks to some of America's most truly stupid projects, so they've tasted the wares.

It's about a minority who places keeping their toys above the well being of the rest of us.

There should be no high capacity magazines available to any civilian here. Oh yeah, they're fun - I've shot em, but the cost (how many mass shootings per year are we up to now)? is, well, doesn't matter, cuz...

I F*#KING LOVE SHOOTING THIS THING!

That last sentence IS this entire debate. Well, if you add I F*#KING LOVE SELLING THESE THINGS! to the mix, anyway.

But hey, let's talk about the Constitution, shall we?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
The only reason that traffic related deaths are dropping is that you can't
go fast enough to kill anyone any more because of the traffic.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:05pm PT



Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
The biggest danger of Seattle traffic is shooting yourself.

Plus, I just noticed my car has 11 air bags. Yes, they've gone to 11.

Jaysus, you could drop that f*#k on Mars and drive it away if you wanted to.

Had to replace an airbag once. 4K bucks. So my airbags must be worth about 3 times the sticker price.

I should just part that action out on Ebay right now and buy a better car.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:28pm PT

What You Should Know:


•When you arrive at probate court, you'll need an official form of identification, your payment and a self-addressed, stamped envelope. Submit your application at the court along with your fingerprints. Within five days, a county probate judge will request a criminal history records check and a background check on you. About 30 days later, law enforcement will finish its background check and determine whether you can receive a license.
•County probate judges may restrict state residents with criminal records from getting licenses. Read more about these restrictions.
•If you've been in a mental hospital or drug treatment center within the last five years, you must ask that your county probate court judge approve your license application. The judge will seek a recommendation from the superintendent of your hospital or treatment center, and then determine whether it's safe for you to carry a gun.



FAQs:







How much does a license cost?




While $75 is an average fee for licensing and fingerprinting, costs vary by county. Contact your local probate court for details.
..





How long is my license valid, and when should I submit my license renewal?




Licenses are valid for five years. At least two months before your license expires, you should go to court to apply for renewal.
..





What states does Georgia share firearms license reciprocity with?




Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming all recognize Georgia-issued firearms licenses. You should acquaint yourself with firearms restrictions in those states when possible.

http://georgia.gov/popular-topic/applying-firearms-license

Georgia has no open carry without a valid CCL!

Let the hand wringing panty wetters carry on babbling.
mhay

climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
The worlds top ten highest suicide rate nations have strict gun controls.

Too bad the gun control laws aren't more lax, someone might shoot you before you can shoot yourself!

Is there a point to comparing gun deaths to traffic fatalities? One of the most ridiculous arguments for less gun control I've ever heard. You people are reeeeealy reaching here.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
There is a point.

Both are machines. Both operate in the public space. Both are potentially lethal. Both are subject to regulation to mitigate that public health issue. In the case of cars, regulation has been effective at doing just that.

In contrast, the very real public health and safety issue of gun deaths - as well as the very negative effects on our national well being of the threat of being shot, is worsening steadily over time.

Like the problem of drunk driving, public policy can be an effective tool to turn this worsening trend around.

Unlike cars, no civilian needs a gun with a high capacity magazine. They are essentially toys. Unlike most toys, however, they can and have been used - numerous times, to kill a lot of people in a short period of time. Banning them, as many nations (with far, far lower gun violence rates) have, carries the very same rationale as banning grenades, which are also very fun toys. After all, when the Latin Kings show up; on your front lawn, who wouldn't want greet them with an RPG? THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!

The argument is nonsense on its face.

If 5 armed guys show up at your place one night - they'll be wearing SWAT jackets. The Latin King thing is a f*#king myth - unless you're a rival gang member, that is.

In addition, we should far more heavily regulate dealer's licenses. A few bad apples are responsible for selling the lion's share of weapons later used in crimes. We don't because of our shitty politics., We should also shift our focus from peaceful mosques to right wing hate groups. Let's get real about who the real domestic threat is, here. Again, our right wing politics preclude going in that direction as far as we need to.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 24, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 24, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
Actually, the prohibition on private ownership of grenades has been quite successful.

Same principle applies to high capacity magazine weapons or any other non sport weapon deemed too dangerous by the voting public for private ownership.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 24, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
Tvash
how are you going to protect your home and family without an AR15 and a couple of 20 round magazines?

Chief
I dunno why you need big magazines. You're such a good shot a plain ole six shooter ought to be all you need.
Unless you're afraid the Communist militia from San Francisco is coming after you. They WILL be armed and dangerous.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 24, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
What's the oxymoron chief?


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 24, 2014 - 04:20pm PT
No, most guys in the camp were power mad pygmies who got off on having officers in no win scenarios that made them feel smart.

I focused on field training.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 24, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
Yes, I know how much people love their camps. And yes, they're necessary. I personally preferred a more positive training environment.

Edit:
That is the Air Force/Army for ya.... huh Survival.

Yeah, for sure there are no power mad pygmies in the Navy.....

There are no Hardcell PJ's, period. Only guys that have been through the camp.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 24, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
Once you have one, you can acquire grenades a la mode. I personally know three individuals that have both their FFL and FEL's. Two ret LEO's and one a ret LCDR USN EOD Operator.

LOL,

I know one CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTOR with a FEL that refills flash bang grenades for local LEO's because he's the only one around with the properly rated storage facility.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 24, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
Gawd I miss my 3"/50 gun... it would go so well in my backyard now and I
could light up those muthafuggin stoopid azz low flying helos.

aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Apr 24, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
There are about 20 children a day injured by accidental discharge of guns. Law enforcement experts say (and the statistics prove it)your chances of successfully using a gun for self-defense are much rarer than the likelihood of it being used against you, or for suicide, or some family member taking it and killing someone, etc.

I don't think gun control laws are necessarily the answer, but just as blind people cannot be allowed to drive a car, so many people for various reasons, are much better off without guns.

I think it's different if you live in the country, or on a farm; then you need guns, but even then, I would encourage people with children, especially, to give very serious and thorough safety instruction.

I live in Los Angeles, where thousands of gang members have guns, and one's attitude is much different, compared to those who live in the country.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 24, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
The law appears to allow "gun-rights" to those who are licensed, which gets me to wondering what are the requirements to obtain a license in Georgia.

How many licensees?
How many white licensees?
How many black licensees?
How many gang-member licensees?







Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 24, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
Aspendougy writes:

"...your chances of successfully using a gun for self-defense are much rarer than the likelihood of..."





Is it possible to use a gun for self-defense without firing it?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 24, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
Is it possible to use a gun for self-defense without firing it?

I am sure you already know the answer, chaz

simply showing or brandishing a weapon is a very effective deterrent

I was able to stop an escalating road rage situation just by holding my Glock out the
window, he saw it and stopped stalking my wife and I

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 24, 2014 - 11:06pm PT

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/georgias-carry-laws-explained/frequently-asked-questions/

Q: I don’t have a Georgia Weapons License. Can I carry in my car?
A: Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without a valid weapons carry license. In addition, such person may carry a long gun, which must be carried openly if loaded. Moreover, such person may carry in his or her own motor vehicle. Finally, if such person is eligible for a Georgia Weapons License, he or she may carry in any private passenger motor vehicle.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
Jesus is doing a face palm
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 25, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
I wouldn't assume everyone will be intimidated by your gun. That's a really stupid mistake to make, because not everyone is. Waking up at 10 pm with a shotgun in my face didn't do it for me, so I reckon I'm one. My only response in that croggy, confused moment was "find your Spanish, dude. I think this guy wants to chat". Now a big knife or tiny micronut...OK, those scare me.

Mr. Road Rage could just as easily have pulled out his own glock and shot the wife before you can say "please don't do that". An actual attack (what, he's going to ram your vehicle?) is very unlikely in such a case. Mostly the guy just wants to vent and show you who's boss.

Let him.

Dumbass maneuver that endangered both the wife and everyone else on the raod nearby. Really stupid.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 25, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^That coming from someone ripping on me for OPEN CARRYING.. Isnt that precious....

confused again, Ron?

I have never, ever, ripped on you or anyone else for openly carrying a weapon

here in New Mexico we are an open carry state

I happen to have a Concealed Carry License

get your facts right before you post, try it, just one time
jstan

climber
Apr 26, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
Ron:
interesting you would say that. I was driving across the 13th street bridge in DC when I saw a male driver force his way in front of a car driven by a black woman. He then reached into the back seat, pulled up a rifle, and pointed it at her. In such an awkward maneuver if the rifle had been ready to fire he might have killed someone.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Apr 26, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
http://m.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/man-gun-causes-scare-during-childrens-baseball-gam/nfhJS/

Parents at a Forysth County park abruptly stopped a children's baseball game after growing suspicions of the behavior of a man carrying a gun in a waist holster Tuesday night.

"He's just walking around [saying] 'See my gun? Look, I got a gun and there's nothing you can do about it.' He knew he was frightening people. He knew exactly what he was doing," said parent Karen Rabb.

Rabb told Channel 2’s Tom Regan the parents grew so alarmed that they brought the game to a halt when the man declined a request that he leave a parking lot overlooking the baseball field.

“He scared people to the point where we stopped the game, took the kids out of the dugout and behind the dugout, and kind of hunkered down,” Rabb said.

Park users flooded 911 with 22 calls about the man. Forysth County deputies questioned the man, and found that he had a permit for the handgun. Authorities said since the man made no verbal threats or gestures, they could neither arrest him nor ask him to leave the park.

Another parent questioned what point the man was trying to prove.

"Why would anyone be walking around a public park, with a lot of children and parents and people here playing baseball, and he's walking around with a gun? I don't think the parents would have been nervous had he just had the gun in his holster and was just watching the game," said parent Paris Horton.

Rabb's 6-year-old son Ethan was playing at the time and later expressed concern to his mother.

"When I was reading my son's story last night, he turned to me and said 'Mommy, did that man want to kill me?'" said Rabb.

The Forsyth County sheriff said he didn't believe the parents and children were in any danger and that parks are constantly patrolled. He said while the man was within his rights to carry the gun, his conduct was inappropriate.

"We support the constitutional right to bear arms. We will not tolerate bad behavior," said Forsyth Sheriff Duane Piper.

The director of Georgia Carry, a gun rights and lobbying organization, also questioned what the man was trying to do.

"There's a right and a wrong way to exercise your right. This is not the right way," said Georgia Carry Executive Director Jerry Henry.

Rabb said she, too, is a gun rights advocate.

"I own a gun. I have no problems with the Second Amendment. But they do not belong in a parking lot where we have children everywhere. If you want to make a statement, go to the Capitol," said Rabb.
.........

Fuucking gun nuts...
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 26, 2014 - 02:45pm PT
^^^ +1 for nita
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Apr 26, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
Seems like the USA is overly fascinated with guns. Can't turn on the TV without seeing them. I grew up with pellet guns, 22s, 45s, 12 gauges and a 30-06.

I'm glad I learned to shoot. At 12 I was shooting dad's 30-06 at the range. I have no fear of guns. But this fascination in the USA is just stupid. I don't own a gun and don't understand it.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 26, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
I am so happy we moved back to Cali from Georgia. I love my friends there, but it is not the place I wanted to raise my kids.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 26, 2014 - 03:57pm PT
Is this the kind of country we want to live in, where everyone carries a gun? Seems to me we are going backwards.

At what point do we evolve into a species that doesn't need a gun to go through life?

I have no problem with guns that people use to hunt food, or protect their home, but carrying one everywhere you go?

Really?
Madbolter

Big Wall climber
I used to be hard
Apr 26, 2014 - 05:38pm PT
Gary throws out this photo as an illustration of Teabagger violence:


But Lincoln was a Republican and Booth was a Democrat.

Facts are a hard thing to deal with when they don't fit the agenda, huh?
dirtbag

climber
Apr 26, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
Uh madbolter...dems were the conservatives back then. Yur about 150 years behind.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 26, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
Yep!

So were all the founders of the KKK

Calvin E. Jones, John B. Kennedy,
Frank O. McCord, John C. Lester,
Richard R. Reed, James R. Crowe

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 26, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
"Uh madbolter...dems were the conservatives back then. Yur about 150 years behind."

DYNAMIC SYSTEM ALERT - PROCESSING CAPACITY EXCEEDED.

SHUT DOWN OR RETURN TO ENDLESS MEME LOOP?





Rest assured, Lincoln is rolling in his grave.

Or perhaps he freed the slaves so his party could later suppress their votes.

After all, he was a very forward thinking guy.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 26, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
http://fox59.com/2014/04/26/purdue-researchers-find-ways-to-better-protect-students-in-school-shootings/#axzz302CgvC57

“The issue of school shootings is obviously a very emotional debate,” he said. “What we are trying to do is take the emotion out of the debate and figure out how we can save the most lives and educate the policy makers, as well as parents and citizens.

In the scenario where there is an armed resource officer, casualties dropped by 66.5 percent and response time was cut 59.5 percent. When five percent of teachers were carrying concealed weapons, deaths were reduced by 6.8 percent and response time dropped by 5.4 percent. When 10 percent of teachers were carrying concealed weapons, casualties fell by 23.2 percent and response time went down 16.8 percent.

However, the real reductions came when teachers carrying concealed firearms were supplemented with a resource officer, the results show.

In the scenario where five percent of teachers were carrying concealed guns and a resource officer was present, casualties dropped an astonishing 69.2 percent and response time dropped 59.7 percent. Finally, when 10 percent of teachers were carrying concealed firearms and a resource officer was present, casualties fell by 70.2 percent and response time was reduced by 62.7 percent.

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 26, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
Looks like you folks are bringing ST some new ad revenue!

This was the topic header a few minutes back:


and this was my ST forum header this morning;


Glad to see some good come from your spew;)
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 26, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
Booth was a strong supporter of the Confederacy and secession.

Yes, the Southern Democrats were no friends of the Black people. A really nasty bunch, plenty of them were KKK supporters or looked the other way.
It was the Northern Democrats/Liberals/Commie Pinkos who got on the buses with the Blacks, rode south and fought for integration. A couple of my older friends were on those buses. Not so many Republicans were on the bus.

TGT
you spout such drivel



Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 26, 2014 - 07:59pm PT
history = man, that sh#t is complicated.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 26, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
Who's office wrote the text of the 64 civil rights act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_Dirksen

Republican.





TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
While Jefferson is a complex and contradictory character that shared the modern Democrat's perchance for spending borrowed money that wasn't his, you really have to skip forward to a real genocidal maniac who won office by promising white Southerners Cherokee land to find the founder of the modern Democrat party.



They've been winning elections by promising voters other peoples stuff ever since.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:21pm PT

But here is a verified photo of your dear departed demi-god Reagan laying a wreath in tribute at the tomb of Nazi SS troops.

Classy with a capital ASS.

All Americunt.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
spending borrowed money that is not yours?

ha!

you are confused, TeaGeeTea

it is your Republicans who have added the most to the national debt, by spending

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
I don;t know if you realize this but Regan has been dead and gone long ago.

Your prince will have doubled the debt he came in with in eight short years.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Lies and misrepresentation are your only tools TGT and why you are ridiculed.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
Let's keep it in the second 1/2 of the 20th century

no, DIrksen didn't "write the civil rights act"
JFK and RFK did. Then LBJ pushed it through the house but it was filibustered in the Senate by (yes) Democrats.
Then Dirksen, Kuchel (repub), Humphrey(D) and Mansfield (D) watered it down so it would pass the Senate.
Dirksen refused to censure Joseph McCarthy and pushed LBJ to escalate in Vietnam
Yeah, his lovely silver tongued voice sucked in a lot of people.
Byran

climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
Why the graphs posted by both Norton and TGT are erroneous and misleading...

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/dueling-debt-deceptions/
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
ok TeaGeeTea

wanna play some more?

per our Constitution, ALL "spending" bills must originate and be passed by the House of Representatives

guess which political party has been in control of ALL spending since the 2010 election?

yes honey, Speaker John Boehner and his House Republicans control spending

in fact, they just voted into law another one trillion dollars in spending recently

why would you vote Republican when you are so upset about spending, TGT?

duh
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:04pm PT

spending a "problem" you might ask?

then explain the negative consequences of spending....

and then explain why interest rates have gone down to the lowest level in 70 years...

hint: governments do not function like your family checkbook does....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:07pm PT

explain why convicted Felons should not be background checked at gun shows, TGT

and then explain why you support a political party that does not even support those exact background checks, when put to a vote only weeks after the Sandy Hill murder

go ahead, justify why you vote Republican
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:08pm PT
Typical TeaGeeTea. Barf out a lie and run for cover. Then ignore the facts presented to you and barf out another non-sequitur whopper.
Must suck to be TGT.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 26, 2014 - 10:08pm PT
Too busy watching that to find an actual source for your LBJ quotes, eh TGT?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 27, 2014 - 12:09am PT
Norton writes:

"explain why convicted Felons should not be background checked at gun shows, TGT"


It's already illegal to sell a gun to a felon. It's also against the law for a felon to buy a gun. Both ends of your hypothetical situation are already outlawed.

If those laws already on the books can't be enforced, what makes you think adding a redundant law will make any difference?

I'm pretty sure it's illegal for a felon to even attend a gun show.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 28, 2014 - 10:45pm PT

and in today's GUN NEWS!!!

(if only ALL the students had weapons he would have been too scared to try this)




A 17-year-old student allegedly brought three loaded guns, including an AK-47, and a knife to his Texas school Monday morning.

James Madison High School in San Antonio, Texas, was placed on lockdown until the unidentified student, who also had additional ammunition in his backpack, was taken into custody. No injuries were reported at the school of over 3,200 students, according to The Associated Press.

KSAT News reports the boy's parents woke up Monday and discovered that their son and three of their guns were gone from their home. When they went to his school, they found their son on campus and then sat down with administrators, at which point they checked his backpack and discovered the ammo and two of the three guns. A third gun was found in a bathroom trash can, the San Antonio Express-News reports.

North East Independent School District spokeswoman Aubrey Chancellor said it is unclear exactly what the student planned to do with the weapons.

"The student had said that he planned making some demands over the announcements later today at Madison High School," she told local outlet KSAT Monday. "He didn't say specifically what those demands were, but he did say if those demands were not met, he had planned on committing violence."

Monday's incident comes days after the school district received an anonymous threat via email that a mass shooting would take place last Thursday, according to San Antonio Express-News.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 28, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
chaz,

they don't background check people at gun shows, they just take their admission fee

yes, felons CAN buy guns at gun shows, because background checks are not required
with private sales

do you understand that the "felon" would not be permitted to buy IF he was checked?

get it yet?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 28, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
their son and three of their guns were gone from their home
responsible parenting thrives
even the Nf*#k**RA recommends you keep your guns at home locked if you have kids.
Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.
ipso facto the 17 year old kid was authorized to access the AK-47??
That's really smart
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 28, 2014 - 10:56pm PT
Norton?



Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 29, 2014 - 12:09am PT
Wrong Norton 100%...YOU obviously know nothing about gun show sales. For crissakes.

actually, I know quite a bit, probably more than you, Ron

but, prove it, prove anything I said was incorrect
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 29, 2014 - 05:49am PT
Well Ron if that's the case then how are all the "bad guys" getting guns?
Private gun sales perhaps?
If so shouldn't they be regulated?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 29, 2014 - 09:53am PT
No but I think gun nuts are nuts.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 29, 2014 - 10:26am PT
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/29/3431956/shooting-injures-six-in-georgia-town-where-everyone-is-required-by-law-to-own-a-gun/

Shooter Injures Six In Georgia Town Where Everyone Is Required To Own A Gun
BY REBECCA LEBER APRIL 29, 2014 AT 9:25 AM UPDATED: APRIL 29, 2014 AT 10:05 AM


A gunman opened fire Tuesday morning at a FedEx facility in Kennesaw, Georgia. Six were shot, with their injuries ranging from minor to one in critical condition. Authorities report that the gunman is dead.
The Georgia facility is located in Kennesaw, near Atlanta, a quiet suburb unique in the U.S. for mandating every household own at least one gun. The law is not enforced, so the Kennesaw gun ownership rate hovers around 50 percent, according to its police chief. That’s still higher than the average rate of gun ownership in the U.S., estimated to be about 34 percent. When the law was enacted in 1982, Kennesaw had only 5,000 residents. Today, it has a population of 30,000.
The incident comes just one week after Georgia enacted what may be the nation’s most expansive concealed carry law. The National Rifle Association-sponsored “Safe Protection Act” allows gun owners to bring firearms into most public spaces, including schools, bars, churches, airports, and government buildings, even though researchers have generally found that more people die from gun homicides in areas with higher rates of gun ownership.
“FedEx is aware of the situation,” the company told WSBTV. “Our primary concern is the safety and well being of our team members, first responders and others affected. FedEx is cooperating with authorities.” It isn’t the first time a facility has been the scene of a shooting; in 2011, a gunman shot himself in a FedEx warehouse in Illinois. The company is also one of at least 34 corporations that boost the NRA, offering discounted shipping to NRA members.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 29, 2014 - 10:44am PT
^^^ LOL
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 29, 2014 - 10:47am PT
It's already illegal to sell a gun to a felon.

For the hundredth time. NO, IT IS NOT (in most states)! It is only illegal if you KNOW or BELIEVE (not merely suspect), the person is a felon, if the buyer is a total stranger, there is no responsibility on the seller. This is the loophole that makes straw purchasers almost impossible to prosecute. I could buy 20 handguns, drive to my nearest 'hood, and ask anyone if they'd like to buy some guns I don't want, just $100 over retail. I would have committed no crime in most states.

TE

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 29, 2014 - 10:53am PT
Yes Ron We GOT IT!
But in no way does that discount what TradEddie posted.
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 29, 2014 - 11:47am PT
A gunman opened fire Tuesday morning at a FedEx facility in Kennesaw, Georgia.

They have a KKK museum in Kennesaw also.
Been.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 29, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
We have the best rep with ATFE in this regard.
Excellent!

But what about the rest of the gun shops in the country or even Nevada?
A lot is made of Chicago's murder rate in spite of their strict gun laws.
This sounds like a contradiction until you learn that 1/3 of Chicago's 50,000 captured guns (2001 - 2012) came from outside the city limits.
7000 from Indiana where the NRA just held their 70,000 attendees national convention.
4000 from Mississippi.

State and even city borders are transparent to guns. So do the best you can Ron, the thugs will still get their guns from less scrupulous dealers or from other thugs.

One could (and will) argue that restricting gun sales won't have any effect on gun ownership. That's like saying restricting machine gun and dynamite sales is useless.
Think of gun violence as an epidemic. Like Polio for instance. It took vaccinating every child in the US, Canada, Mexico, Europe to eliminate polio from those countries and it took 4 decades. But it happened. Smallpox has been eradicated world wide. Or at least had been until very recently.
You could also claim that fighting heroin and cocaine trafficking won't affect their use. So let's open the doors.
Gun violence will never be eradicated, it CAN be significantly reduced. Social change takes a long time. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.
jstan

climber
Apr 29, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-fedex-shooting-injured-armed-like-rambo20140429,0,7607602.story#ixzz30IccnSET


Two victims suffered life-threatening shotgun wounds and were in surgery Tuesday morning after a gunman described by a witness as being armed “like Rambo” shot six people at a FedEx sorting facility near Atlanta.
The gunman, described by police as a FedEx package handler, died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His name was not released.



Can suicide bombers be far behind?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 29, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
straightforward approach to reducing gun violence
Complete registration from manufacturer through every buyer. Expires yearly.
Require liability insurance.
Make parents liable for their children's behavior.

Just like our Commie Pinko Gummint does with automobiles, the other deadly weapon in our lives.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 29, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
He first shot and killed the boy and dragged his body into hiding then when she came down into the basement to check he shot the girl several times and while she was still alive he taunted her then gave her a kill shot from under her chin.
This kids had indeed robbed his house several times but they were unarmed.
He got what he deserved. Them... not so much.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 29, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
The Republitards in the Senate blocked the nomination of a new director for ATF from 2006 to 2013.
They even blocked Shrub's nominee in 2007.
Thanks to NRA pressure.

and why on earth does the ATF have such a hard time keeping track of illegal gun sales?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/25/AR2010102505823.html

EDIT: One of the Senators who blocked an ATF director was Larry Craig from Idaho, who happened to also be on the board of directors of the NRA.
The overseer is on the board of the overseen?
Yes, the same Larry Craig who got caught with his pants down in an airport john. With a john (actually a male cop decoy).
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 29, 2014 - 07:10pm PT
A gunman opened fire Tuesday morning at a FedEx facility in Kennesaw, Georgia.

With a shotgun

What now Joe Biden?
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 30, 2014 - 12:49pm PT
this just in today...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/04/30/nanaimo-shooting-mill_n_5240880.html

Way to go tuff guy
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 30, 2014 - 03:42pm PT
Those Canadians and their inferiority complex. They'll NEVER catch up to our murder and mayem rate, no matter how hard they try.
USA we're #1 and we're gonna stay that way.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Apr 30, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
With a shotgun

What now Joe Biden?

((((((I don't think he posts here)))))))
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 30, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
jstan

climber
Apr 30, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
A friend with a ground level apartment in NYC woke one night with one burglar already in the room and the second climbing in. She closed the breech of her shot gun and they nearly killed themselves getting back through the window.

Another friend was awoken one night by a burglar coming at him with a knife. In this case he went out the window post haste. He said he found his assignment in Detroit to be exciting.

Present reports have the person involved in the double killing of burglars, inside the house, to have been premeditated murder. That was such a fast verdict I need to check it. The girl was killed by a shot under the chin after she had already been immobilized, according to the report. If true, this was not a smart move.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 30, 2014 - 05:19pm PT
A friend with a ground level apartment in NYC woke one night with one burglar already in the room and the second climbing in. She closed the breech of her shot gun and they nearly killed themselves getting back through the window.

yes, very good advice from Vice President Biden about having a shotgun at home!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 30, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
The burgler shooter told the girl "you're dying" while she was screaming from the first shots, then put a bullet in her head. This was on the audio from the video recorder he set up before he laid in wait. He told the cops it was "a good, clean finishing shot".

He pretty much screwed his own defence.
jstan

climber
Apr 30, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
I may not need to double check the report.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 30, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
The Armed Citizen:
SAN DIEGO -- A 56-year-old man was sentenced Wednesday to four years in prison for an incident in which his gun was responsible for the accidental death of a 10-year-old boy who lived in his neighborhood.

Todd Conrad Francis had pleaded guilty to two counts of felony child endangerment for June 4, 2013 incident. Francis left the gun in an unsecured location in the garage of his family's Scripps Ranch condominium, prosecutors said.

Francis' then-9-year-old daughter and her friend, Eric Klyaz, found the weapon and began playing with it, prosecutors said.

The boy, a fourth-grade student, died of a gunshot to the chest. Court documents identify the gun as a Sig Sauer 9-millimeter.

Francis had insisted the gun was unloaded, hidden and kept in a separate spot from the ammunition. Prosecutors did not believe him.

In pleading guilty to child endangerment, prosecutors dropped a manslaughter charge.

Francis' attorney asked Superior Court Judge Timothy Walsh to sentence him to probation. But Walsh refused and sentenced him to the maximum term under his plea bargain.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 30, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
The terrible truth about children and gun deaths
NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0
By far most children killed under 15 are killed by a child under 18.
Even the NRA tells you to keep your guns unloaded and locked away at home.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 30, 2014 - 11:19pm PT
Fort Mental
Note that the data is from states that keep those records and make them public.
Otherwise I completely agree with you.

EDIT: I believe all states keep these records if they want Fed crime prevention $$. Many choose to not make them public, thanks to the N F***ing RA
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 1, 2014 - 12:34am PT
NRA is a cancer in this country. They are nothing but puppets for arms manufacturers
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 1, 2014 - 12:54am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 1, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 07:20am PT
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 2, 2014 - 10:21am PT
No matter how smart or rational we are any retard with a gun(think Chaff) can just shoot us.

1. The democracy of the gun means that Chuff's Ignorance is as good as a child's right to life.

2. Chuff thinks that more guns equals less violence, despite the total lack of evidence.

3. Chuff is indifferent to mass shooting of children.

4. By Chuff's logic, guns are as useful as cars and electricity( which are deadly, but regulated)

5. Even illiterate gunslingers didn't want guns in saloons, but not Chuff.

6. Because violent xenophobic white christian arms dealers for Jesus.


I think that we should Troll The Chief et al. Every post that they make should be followed with the statement:

The Chief supports mass school shootings.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 2, 2014 - 10:38am PT


Anything that you say can and will be used against you.

Are these statements true?

1. RA is a Christian
2. RA sells weapons designed to kill people.
3. RA promotes threats and violence as public policy.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 10:40am PT
Just wait till the NRA and the GOP go real hog wild and demand trans -vaginal ultrasound to verify the fetal gun implant was successful so lil Jr can shoot any attempts by satanic abortionists.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2014 - 10:43am PT
I own guns Johnnyrig, and I am not judging you

I don't believe any one here is telling you they don't want you or I to have our guns

what they are suggesting is some reasonable expansion in background checks and maybe
removing true military grade assault weapons from being on the list of what anyone can buy

as a responsible gun owner, I don't have any problem with that

do you, Johnny?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 10:45am PT

"
Stand Your Ground" starts in the womb!

While it is informally called the Stand your Placenta law.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 11:17am PT
Ron do you have to show your papers at "Patriot" check points to get to work?
Or is your Oath Keeper badge sufficient?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
Maybe because I resent the fear mongering that has people amass personal arsenals.
Maybe because I am offended by people who are more paranoid that the Government is out to take away all the guns and not concerned in the least with American children going to bed hungry. Maybe I am sick to death of people who think the Constitution has only a single Ammendment. Maybe I am disgusted with people who believe everyone has a right to carry a gun everywhere or that teachers should be armed while Federal LEOs should be unarmed.

What's your excuse?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
So JRig why do you assume that I addressed you directly?
Are you just one of "You people" who automatically get defensive about an innate sense of guilt by association that no one expresses.

I grew up around guns and mostly responsible gun owners.
I am no marksman but can assure you I can hit what I aim at with a variety of firearms.
I have no problems with guns just crazy gun-huggers that hold irrational and irresponsible attitudes about their "God given" rights to have what ever they want with out restriction..
If you are not one of those folks then I have no problem with you.
Have I ever posted a direct to you insult?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
Education and healthcare are probably more important to me, but i dont think guns are the evil thing you make them out to be.
I recognize guns dont belong everywhere, or to everyone.
Unfortunately your rants don't usually don't give that impression.

.... im just another gun-toting ass.
Unfortunately you do give that impression most of the time.

I've got no gripe at all with responsible gun ownership. Which is precisely why responsible gun owners should not mind responsible and rational regulations.
Do you want any whacko, drunk/doped/irresponsible/15 year old driving automobiles?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
Meanwhile the "Castle doctrine" is doing it's job in Montana
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27243115
Mr Kaarma, a 29-year-old firefighter, has told investigators his home had twice been hit by burglars, and he told a hair stylist he had waited up at night to shoot intruders, prosecutors said.

On the night of the shooting, Mr Kaarma and his partner Janelle Pflager left their garage door open, and Ms Pflager left her purse in the garage in order to bait intruders, she told police.

They set up motion sensors and a video monitor, prosecutors said.

When the sensors went off just after midnight and they saw a man on the monitor screen, Mr Kaarma went outside and fired a shotgun into the garage without warning several times.

It is unclear what the teenager was doing inside in the garage.
The victim was a 17 year old German exchange student at a Missoula high school.
Why was he in the garage? good question
Should he have been in the garage? of course not
Should he have been murdered?

Sure the murderer is a whacko and will most likely be convicted. Unfortunately these pathetic "Castle doctrine" philosophies (thank you ALEC and NRA) encourage this kind of murder and mayhem.
Trayvon Martin?

ENOUGH fer gawd's sake.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 2, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
It sounds like two as#@&%es with guns playing out violent fantasies.
Where is the backstory?
Simple as something. There are no good gun tales. Disaster averted is the best that you get with a chance of killing innocents.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
There are no good gun tales. Disaster averted is the best that you get with a chance of killing innocents.
A very good point.
I spend a lot of time in the mountains and woods. If bullets came at me from across the canyon I wouldn't assume it was aimed at me but I'd sure as heck take cover and wait a while.

There's a guy down the canyon below me who bangs away with a Very Large Caliber gun every now and then. I'd guess 0.50 cal. I've called the Sheriff a couple of times. Not as a complaint, he has a right (unfortunately) but to let them know he's there. In fact, the fire dept will not go down several of those roads without Sheriff escort and the last time they went down on a fire, in the vicinity of the Big Gun, the Sheriff waited for CHP backup. They couldn't put men on the fire line for nearly an hour. Fortunately the air attack kept it contained from my friends' houses just up the slope. I live at the head of that canyon. I was not amused.

Would you have fired back at a 50cal with your 357? Mebbe you should start packing a 50cal or at least an AK-47
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
jr
Now you want to defend the guy saying, maybe he wasnt shooting at me?!
I said nothing of the sort. I have no idea if he had criminal intent or is just plain careless, stupid or demented. Clearly he should NOT have a gun.

I clearly did NOT file a complaint about the 50cal. I didn't ask for it to be investigated, I didn't say who it is, I don't know who it is. He's been doing it off and on for 10 years, including 20 or so rounds about 2 weeks ago. I see nothing wrong with warning the Sheriff when someone is firing a cannon in a populated area.
I didn't say he was doing anything illegal. Plenty of heavy caliber and high rate fire on weekends at the two ranges within 2 miles of me.

I've got many armed friends and neighbors. There are one or two hotheads I'd worry about if they were in a drunken fight with their wives. One who is well armed, carries in his truck and I know has been beating his wife. She finally left with the teenage boys a few months ago so she's now marginally safer.
I've also lost a lady friend and close neighbor to gun suicide, in her living room, with her husband in the house. And a 21 year old depressed neighbor boy who killed himself with an unsecured rifle.
When that kind of tragedy stops I'll let up on gun safety and responsibility.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 2, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
Where'd The Chief go?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 04:07pm PT
^^^ sssshhhhh.....you'll wake the Troll
(I've been wondering the same)
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 2, 2014 - 04:14pm PT


Johnny writes:
You know, i could condemn the other as#@&%es with guns just the same as you, and still you,d just view me as another typical as#@&%e gun nut. Guess thats part of my attitude, that people like you fail to differentiate.

Its ok though, you have the freedom to be biased and the right to mouth your bias."

Humor me here. What if he was just like you? Just an innocent recreational gun user looking for some gun time. What if he never even saw you? Or thought you were an animal. People have bad eyesight. If that is true then you were knowingly shooting your gun toward another human being. That was the best solution that you had.

We both agree that there was at least one irresponsible and deadly gun user that day. I just think that you and he are cut from the same dangerous mold. I think that it's clear that you are willing to point your 357 toward people.

Thanks HighT. Keep up the good fight.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 2, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
You could humor me and address the possibility that you were shooting your 357 at a similarly unaware gun recreationalist.

Did you just drop an "I know you are but what am I?"

Just FYI if you had killed that guy your kids would have probably grown up without you as you would have been hard pressed to prove he had a motive. Human error on his part followed by reactionary violence is not a foolproof defense strategy.
So you are correct that you are not responsible enough for me. Exactly.

It would have been a nice day in the woods except for the gun nuts shooting at eachother, right?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
jr
I'm not assuming anything about your gun responsibility and safety beyond your words which I find at minimum careless

why law enforcement and fire would have issues with a guy whos done nothing wrong
I think you missed something:
The fire crews have orders to not go in some of those roads to fight a fire without LEO backup. Precisely because there are a number of well armed whackos "survivalists" down there.
It has nothing to do with going after "a guy who's done nothing wrong". It has everything to do with the safety of unarmed fire fighting crews trying to protect private property.
There are also a few meth labs. Now THERE's a public safety problem. When they catch fire, the LEOs secure the perimeter and the fire companies just stay back, stop it from spreading and let it burn to the ground. For their own safety.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
There's a guy down the canyon below me who bangs away with a Very Large Caliber gun every now and then.
you're right, I did not say they were whackos, I thought that was implicit. There are several more down there with rapid fire weapons who really don't like visitors. This is in thick forest. No LEOs go in there without a backup car. In most cases law enforcement leaves them be. It's safer that way for all concerned. When they go in after pot grow it's the DEA who come in. Usually by chopper. Killed one of the surprised growers when he aimed at an agent a couple of years ago.

All within a few miles of Silly Valley.

I also have a right. A right to expect a safe neighborhood. Free from stray bullets (not a big worry), safe for fire fighters, safe for LEOs (big worries). I take responsibility for helping the fire fighters and LEOs go about their lawful business in safety.
Especially since it is mountain forest/wilderness. City Slickers have other worries, maybe even bigger ones.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
OK
directed at me
You know, i could condemn the other as#@&%es with guns just the same as you, and still you,d just view me as another typical as#@&%e gun nut. Guess thats part of my attitude, that people like you fail to differentiate.
I don't think I'd given you any reason for this. I thought it a bit careless. Was I hurt? Hell no, i've got thick skin.
Anyway let's drop that bit.
Carry on.

EDIT: right-O
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 2, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
As long as cigarette smoking is legal in this country, you'll get no sympathy from me regarding gun-related deaths. Gun-related deaths pale in comparison to cigarette-related deaths, particularly among kids, and you can't even start to float a "need" or "useful" argument regarding cigarettes. Furthermore, nobody thought to explicitly wrap an amendment in the Bill of Rights around the right to smoke cigarettes (particularly around kids).

When the hand-wringing around here takes on a shred of consistency, then maybe there can be a semi-valid and perhaps even remotely useful discussion. Until then, there are just entrenched "sides," neither of which is putting guns into a big-picture perspective, imho.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 2, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
You joke, but that kind of stuff actually happens, and a LOT more than do school shootings or a kid accidentally getting killed by a gun that's left laying around.

Funny how if I were to joke in exactly the same way about a school shooting, I'm suddenly an "inhuman jerk [expletive deleted]," etc., etc. Actually, BOTH forms of joking are inappropriate! But you can get away with it (somehow) regarding the FAR higher number of deaths caused by tobacco. Go figure.

The media finds it sexy to report the relatively rare incidents of kids dying from guns. But there's nothing sexy about reporting orders of magnitude more deaths from cigarettes. Of course, the feds have been subsidizing tobacco production for decades and decades (your tax dollars at work!), so it's better for the taxpayers to just not tumble to the fact that we're paying and paying and paying for all the killing caused by the little death-sticks.

Yup, far better to keep everybody's attention all wound up over the "divisive" issue of guns.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
Hey Madbolter do you realize that cigarettes have lots of restrictions and can't be sold minors?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
As long as cigarette smoking is legal in this country......
Plenty of blame to go around there all right. My mother died of smoking related disease. I grew up in second hand smoke. I'm waiting for my turn.

So where were the first non-smoking restaurant laws in the US?
Among the first were those Liberal Bastions of Sausalito, Los Gatos, Palo Alto and San Francisco CA.
The same San Francisco where Supervisor Feinstein saw the Mayor and colleagues gunned down by a Right Wing Whacko. The same San Francisco where as Mayor there was a mass shooting in the financial district that killed several people. The same San Francisco where Senator Feinstein who wrote the now eviscerated Assault Weapons Ban still lives.
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