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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 23, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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I kinda like the select guides, especially if I'm just visiting an area for a short time.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 23, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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Evidently you have yet to behold the awsome-ness of select mini-guide:
"15 Climbs that Don't Suck in Sedona"
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 23, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
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Beef I have with ST select guides is that Top Roping/Sport Climbing guide for yosemite is different from Trad guide. Even though both cover a lot of the same climbs. Some stuff from TR/Sport book could have been added to trad book, and probably belongs there anyway. Like all those TRable fingercrack boulders (which also appear in the bouldering guide). Longer mixed sport/trad routes on Park Line Slab would be a logical addition to the trad guide IMO. I do like the guidebook itself though. Just some criticism. Of course it is easier to criticize vs write own guidebook. :)
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Apr 23, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
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Different strokes for different folks.
If you don't like Select guides in general, then you were probably not the target audience anyway.
While a comprehensive guide may spread the masses a bit more widely, it is very questionable if the effect is that significant. Something like 90% of climbers climb no more than 5% of established routes -- regardless of the "guidebook" resource being utilized.
I like comprehensive guides much more than Select guides myself, but as has been pointed out, there are very few real "comprehensive" guides. Most comprehensive guides fall far short of that mark, there being a ongoing winnowing of routes from edition to edition (as pointed out by Ed above).
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 23, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
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Erik
I have no beef with the SuperTopo guides. They are excellent and the notes are very good, especially the approach/descent. The Yosemite Valley Free Climbs guide is not what I call a "select" guide as it covers about 125 routes. They also incorporate feedback from climbers. Several years ago I suggested a correction for Doggie Diversions which made it into the book.
But I never go the The Valley without Meyers and Reid (both editions) and usually Roper as well. Similar for Tuolumne
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Apr 23, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
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Select guides can be useful. Kevin Mclane came out with "Canadian Rock" a few years ago, which contains 1800+ routes to a number of areas in BC and Alberta. There are a number of obscure but worthwhile places included and should prompt people to get around more.
This should be a big bonus to Muricans because most come up here to climb at Squamish, the Bugs, or do Canadian Rockies alpinism. When the weather craps out in these places a book such as Kevin's will give them ideas about where to go so they can get a good salvage mission happening.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Apr 23, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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dagibbs
Trad climber
Ottawa, Ontario
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Apr 23, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
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I am torn.
For many areas, a complete guide will be unwieldy to create, maintain, publish, and carry around. Or has to run into multiple volumes.
For sport areas, I prefer guides that are, at least, complete on a per-crag, or per-face basis, because sport climbs don't always follow an obvious feature, so finding the right climb can be a matter of counting bolt-lines over from a known feature or climb.
For trad/gear climbs, I find a select is more useable, because usually there is something that the climb clearly follows - a crack, corner, feature, etc. Then describing some, but not all, of the choices can still allow one to find the climb one wants.
In doing a complete, the question also will be how complete... every variation? Every link-up? Some? None? Even if a particular link-up is the best climb at the crag in question?
I tend to favour a select crags, but all the lines at each described crag choice, most of the time. Especially as a visitor to an area. It allows me to find good alternates if the particular line I'm looking at is busy to very busy, while still not leaving me carrying an encyclopedia in my pack.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 23, 2014 - 07:02pm PT
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The [supertopo] Yosemite Valley Free Climbs guide is not what I call a "select" guide as it covers about 125 routes. Really?
If a guide leaves out the vast majority of routes, that defines select in my view.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 23, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
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Clint
Yes, I stand corrected. I have to agree the SuperTopo valley guide is a "selection". I pointed out several good climbs of the many that are left out.
last time I checked your list it's up to 2694 climbs. That of course includes aid climbs.
It's an excellent list.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Apr 23, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
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oh look, how new, how fresh, folks complaining of crowds on ST.
suck it!
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 23, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
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We all can agree on which Yosemite guide has the best cover.
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adventurous one
Trad climber
Truckee Ca.
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Apr 23, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
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A well documented, comprehensive guidebook can be of great value to a local climbing community in providing a vast array of climbing options, as well as providing an enjoyable historical read for those passing through (Or even to those who never plan to visit the area) A guidebook should be far more than just detailing the statistics of a "select" number of routes. It falls to the guidebook author to also be the local historian, because it would be completely uneconomical to write a book detailing just the history (Unless it is Yosemite, perhaps)
Select guides are very easy to produce, since the information on the most popular routes are easily at hand, requiring very little time consuming "detective" work and a minimal page count. However, rarely, though not always, do the select guidebook authors provide a thorough, well researched effort on the local climbing history. Though this type of guide may be useful to those just passing through, it is a dis-service to the local climbing community.
In this era of (some climbers) hyper over bolting of every piece of climbable rock to "mark" ones first ascent, comprehensive guidebooks can provide discouragement to (the disdainful act of) retro bolting obscure routes and help in preserving the "clean" lines and bold routes of the previous generations.
The economics of researching, writing, and producing a comprehensive guidebook are discouraging at best. Once a "select" guide is made available (usually "borrowing" from the efforts of the inclusive guidebook author) the economics of producing a comprehensive guidebook becomes even more discouraging, as it siphons off the potential customers that may have supported the greater effort of the all inclusive guidebook author. The "passing through" climber should be supportive of the local climbing communities effort to preserve the heritage of the local climbing history by supporting the comprehensive guidebook authors, even if they do not intend to climb all the routes, as it benefits all climbers.
Edit: Btw, anyone needing assistance in producing/publishing a TRULY WELL RESEARCHED, comprehensive guidebook for their local area can contact CAMP 4 PRESS for assistance.
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Apr 29, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Select guidebooks are wrong. You telling me after all the effect I did to put up an average route and you're to busy to climb it (even after I saved you all the time and energy of putting up the routes). How are you going to learn to put up your own select route? You know there will be cleaning to be done before your 1st ascent gets into the "select" status.
-Kurt
P.S. I don't like "select" books of articles. I've already purchase the originals to support the authors and you dish 30 authors by not buying their books (same for guidebook authors).
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!