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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Jun 10, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
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California is located in the desert latitudes. Namibia, Chile, Morocco are
what the state should look like. And it would without the Sierra.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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Jun 10, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
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Where we do need walks, we'll be using flagstone set in sand, not grout.
you might consider crushed (decomposed) granite
The flagstone is going on a sub base of gravel, with sand on top, then compacted. The flagstone will set on that base, and DG will go between the stone. It's been very stable so far. But we're going broke with this project!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 10, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
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area around Oakhurst could see 50 percent die off of trees by the end of august. Not sure what that statistic means.. 50 percent of trees attacked by beetles. 50 percent of all trees. or what.
What might not be obvious is how overgrown the forest is, due to fire suppression. As such, it is a very unhealthy forest to start with.
Take the example of the below two photos taken at the same spot: one taken in 1915, before fire suppression, and one taken in 2008---look at the trees in the background. Most people do not realize that the first is what a healthy forest density actually looks like.
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John M
climber
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Jun 10, 2015 - 10:41pm PT
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Yes.. I am aware that it is overgrown, but 50 percent dead trees means an extreme fire danger. Plus we don't have enough mill capacity, so most of it will go to waste. Great big beautiful Ponderosa and Sugar Pines dying left and right. Pains my heart.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 10, 2015 - 11:52pm PT
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it doesn't go "to waste" if it is left in place... the resources bound up in the dead tree go back to the forest
"waste" is a human value judgement, meaning, not of use to humans...
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Jun 11, 2015 - 12:34am PT
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do those dead trees contain MSG? Gluten?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 11, 2015 - 01:11am PT
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hey there say, john m... thanks for the link... and ken m, thanks for the share... and ed, as well...
many thoughts, all tied in together...
just thinking and learning, as i read and go through all this...
i grew up through a drought time and it was a sad worry... this, of course, all these years,
is far worse... :( being what it is... :(
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 11, 2015 - 01:25am PT
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hey there say, all... i was just curious... could the large plastic islands of garbage, floating in the pacific ocean, ALSO (as the sun? reflects? on this) affect --
the weather, etc, that in-turn affects the weather, elsewhere... ?
just wondering if anyone has a link for that or if it even means anything, as to weather connections and no rain, etc...
thank guys... don't know why, but i just started wondering, tonight...
will be back later and see if you all know or found some links...
i will look, around, too and see what i can find, if anything...
not that it helps, but i was just wanting to know how that works... if it does...
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tripmind
Boulder climber
San Diego
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Jun 11, 2015 - 07:10am PT
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A healthy forest is self regulating, and in fact dead wood creates a huge list of new opportunities for insects and wildlife to take advantage of.
The majority of wildfires are caused by human activity, which is why inhabited areas need fire suppression and prevention programs.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 11, 2015 - 11:07pm PT
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"waste" is a human value judgement, meaning, not of use to humans...
Well, inasmuch as this is a forum for humans to discuss things, is it not a place for that judgement to occur??
If the forest were managed for natural growth (I don't think we really want the fires, because of what it does to air quality), we wouldn't have all those artificially overgrown forests, with all the problems that come from that.
Of course, we have the problems happening NOW. All those dead trees are all a artificially created fire hazard. It would be like stacking firewood 20 feet high ten feet thick around your house. You can wait for the spark, or you can do something. The alternatives are not legion.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 12, 2015 - 09:14am PT
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It's not that the bark beetles are just "making a living," or that a healthy forest is one with a more moderate tree density.
The interesting thing to me is what it means for the firs and pines to be attacked at these elevations. What will be replacing these tree species? Certainly, if the firs are susceptible to beetles, then other types of flora will become more prevalent at these lower elevations. The winters are not cold enough to kill off the beetles season over season.
I was at a vista and saw that brown trees ran in rows. I was told that this was due to the drought, and those were areas where there wasn't enough water in the soil to sustain the trees.
50% die off in Oakhurst--man. And it's not just there, I see massive die-offs in most forests I visit in Cali.
As a note, via Merriam-Webster:
Definition of ATTACK
transitive verb
1: to set upon or work against forcefully
2: to assail with unfriendly or bitter words
3: to begin to affect or to act on injuriously (plants "attacked" by aphids)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jun 12, 2015 - 09:37am PT
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There seem to be many trees dying off on the east side..Lodgepole , white fir , and jeffrey with bores marks from the bark beetle..what does it mean...? More toilet paper for Sprock...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 12, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
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hey there say, k-man... i JUST heard this on the public radio news... just now... oh my... wondered about it... :O
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 12, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
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You people need to keep your damn drought in you own state. You are sending it North.
The Govenor has declared a drought emergency in 19 of 36 counties, with four more pending right now. Those counties comprise about 3/4 the land area of the State.
So far the wine country seems OK.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 12, 2015 - 11:41pm PT
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I tend to think of this issue in terms of my graduate training in population biology.
Consider the following: You have a system stable for centuries, producing a sustainable supply of food and water, and a stable population controlled by periodic natural fires.
Now you change the system, keeping the same amount of food and water, but expanding the quantity of the population by approximately 100-fold.
What do you imagine happens? Evolution dictates that some do better than others. There may be a shift in species, to those that grow faster, but have not been the dominant species. However, ALL the trees are stressed due to the constant competition and stress.
As such, they are all vulnerable to attack by beetles.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Jun 13, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
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California in the good old days when there was to much water.
"By one account, the floods of 1861-1862 came from approximately 30-35
Million-Acre-Feet in additional Central Valley runoff from a number of
moderate storms, plus 3 [4?, 5?] "Pineapple Express" storms in the weeks
following December 8, 1861 (runoff figure is an off-the-record guess by a
hydrologist), in effect 110% - 120% of the average annual Central Valley
runoff in 5 or 6 weeks on top of the usual runoff.
The only real levee system in the Central Valley at the time was
Sacramento and that failed repeatedly. Sacramento's failed upstream on
the American and as downtown filled with water they punched holes in the
levees to let the water out, at which point some of the houses in town
floated out the break and downstream. The State Capitol is now on a hill
 the state jacked it up into the air and built the hill underneath it
after the flood. There was some damage to The State Library. After the
flood, the merchants along I and J streets brought in fill and raised the street
level and made their second floors the new first floors. Riverboats making runs to
Benicia stopped following the channels and cut across country. Waters west of
Colusa were 20' deep. Riverboats making runs to Red Bluff navigated by the trees
sticking out of the water and on their way upstream they stopped and plucked people
out of those trees. People died. There was an inland sea 300 miles long and up to
30' deep. It bankrupted the state and state employees did not get paid for a year
and a half.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 13, 2015 - 10:33pm PT
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From the New Yorker:
Get news satire from The Borowitz Report delivered to your inbox.
APRIL 5, 2015
Poll: Americans Starting to Worry About Climate Change Now That It Affects Their Lawns
BY Andy Borowitz
SACRAMENTO – A new poll shows that Americans who were unconcerned about climate change as it wreaked havoc around the world are beginning to worry, now that global warming is affecting the appearance of their lawns.
According to the poll, conducted by the University of Minnesota’s Opinion Research Institute, rising sea levels, the destruction of habitats, and catastrophic weather conditions, such as hurricanes and tsunamis, have not served as the wake-up call to Americans that their lawns’ unsightly barrenness has.
In interviews across the state of California, residents expressed anger and outrage that climate change had been allowed to worsen to the point that it has now severely limited their choice of ground cover, shrubs, and other decorative plantings.
“We are being forced to create a front lawn out of stones and, yes, cacti,” said Harland Dorrinson, a resident of suburban Sacramento. “I’m not sure that this is a world I would want to leave to my children.”
“Right now we’re looking at a situation where we have to choose between saving our climbing hydrangeas or our roses,” said Tracy Klugian, of San Diego. “We are no longer living like humans.”
Carol Foyler, a San Mateo resident who has watched her lawn turn from a gorgeous green to a hideous brown during California’s drought, said she blamed scientists “for failing to warn us of the true cost of climate change.”
“They always said that polar bears would starve to death,” she said. “But they never told us our lawns would look like crap.”
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/poll-americans-starting-to-worry-about-climate-change-now-that-it-affects-their-lawns
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Jun 13, 2015 - 10:56pm PT
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Interception Losses
- rain that doesn't make it to the ground because
trees get in the way. A measurement of how much water is lost.
Evaporates back into the air from wet bark and leaves.
Lost. Prevented from soaking into the ground to replenish aquifers.
Under California Sierra conditions these interception losses of woodlands
can be disproportionately large , amounting to a 70% or even a 100%
reduction in water yield for reservoirs in some years.
Rim Fire was a blessing in disguise for Don Pedro water storage due to the
removal of vegetation and thereby the interception losses. Muddy water
preferable to no water.
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