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BBA
Social climber
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Feb 11, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
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The drought may be back big time, at least in Santa Rosa CA. The water supply line is passing below 2015 which was the worst in the previous several year drought...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 11, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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hey there, say, BBA... and DMT... thanks for the updates...
oh my...
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couchmaster
climber
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Feb 13, 2018 - 06:02am PT
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Just like in a zombie movie where the zombie is dead and buried but then suddenly pops back up out of the dirt to everyones horror and shock, it's BAAACCCCKKKKKKKK .....
If February joins December and January into record-setting dryness, "then California is marching into unprecedented territory, which has never been seen before in the recorded climate history," Steve Johnson, long-range forecaster with Atmospherics Group International, said in an email. "Unless March and/or April bring abundant rains … this rainfall season could end up being one of, or possibly THE driest in our climate history."
LA Times archive link to full story: https://archive.is/Hn6bu
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Feb 13, 2018 - 06:44am PT
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Yeah, lookin' bad. I think that guy means "recorded" climate history. We have no way of determining absolute rainfall in the distant past. However, we do know from tree ring and other analysis that Cali has had droughts that last for DECADES. Got some snow here on the East Side yesterday down to about 6,000 ft. Pray for more.
BAd
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Feb 13, 2018 - 07:44am PT
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Why do we not install a bunch of desalination plants, and surround them with solar/wind/wave power supplies?
Fat cat pols take the fall for this. And large-scale farming in arid deserts. And foolish bullet trains. And foolish peripheral canals.
"Gee whiz, no money left for smarter uses of tax money, guys."
I'm way over-simplifying, but you get the idea.
It's all too much to bear to think about for me. I've lived here all my life and I am an average Joe whose jobs were never dependent on the water supply, so I lack the knowledge of many of those who have been posting to this thread.
I got a message for Patrick Sawyer: You struck oil with this thread after so many dry wells. I'm glad for you, butty! Cheers!
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Feb 13, 2018 - 07:59am PT
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Why do we not install a bunch of desalination plants, and surround them with solar/wind/wave power supplies? What is the deal-breaker, point of failure there?
costs, plus the fact that your alternative energy sources are opposed by the present administration.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Feb 13, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
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Why do we not install a bunch of desalination plants, and surround them with solar/wind/wave power supplies? What is the deal-breaker, point of failure there?
It seems less expensive and less destructive than trying to dam, pump, overdraw aquifers, build giant water tunnel projects, and the other madness we currently do.
The simple answer is a technical one: cost.
It is HUGELY expensive to desal seawater. HUGE. It would require a phenomenal increase in electricity generation. The specifics matter, but as a rule of thumb, it is twice as expensive as virtually any other alternative.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Feb 13, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
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DMT, I'm not sure why you are so intent on blaming LA. While LADWP supports the twin tunnels, it is not because of increased water availability, it is because of reliability of the water, made much more survivable of earthquakes. The fact is, the plans for LA see a tremendous reduction of need from distant sources over time.
https://grandchallenges.ucla.edu/sustainable-la/
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Feb 13, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
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DMT, you obviously did not read my link.
Despite what you say, the planning that is going on in LA is to progressively reduce the amount of imported water, over time.
you say that is not how it is being sold. By whom? To whom?
I won't say that there might not be some of what you say being said, but I don't hear it.
The state should be making plans to deal with the reduced water needs of LA---and facilitating it, but I don't see it happening.
But LA is going to continue to work towards water independence, no matter what the State does.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Feb 13, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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I hope so, DMT.
However, in your numerous links, nothing referenced LADWP. It was all about MWD, which is a very different animal.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Feb 18, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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"Plus Ca Change Plus Ca Meme Shoes"
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Feb 18, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
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What the real purpose of the bypass is to pump Sacramento river water with impunity and also bypass environmental restrictions, during droughts. With less water flowing into the Delta the salt water problem will grow worse. And there is no intention to retire the pumping stations at Byron, either.
The CA and Federal environmental restrictions wouldn't disappear because of the tunnels. If the tunnels were causing salt water problems that were causing problems for endangered and threatened fish you could still get restrictions on pumping, no?
From and engineering/environmental perspective, if you built the tunnels and new pumps and kept the old pumps, you could pump much more water during the few months of really high winter/spring flows, without any worries about salt water intrusions and then pump far less during the low flow times when salt water is an issue, but still provide as much water to the south.
Whether this makes financial sense, I don't know. But it is pretty clear that it doesn't make political sense.
The earthquake protection is by no means trivial. If the flows have been high for a while and an earthquake struck when the levees were water logged and the water was still high up on the levees, it might not take that big of an earthquake to destroy a lot of miles of levee. A levee breach usually relieves pressure on other parts of the levee because the water drops and this means that the levee breaches are usually somewhat isolated. But during an earthquake, the water is going to slosh around and a failure at one point is not going to relieve the pressure anywhere else during the time frame of the earthquake. So the failure could be on a really vast scale.
I don't know if anyone has much confidence as far as saying what size earthquake would cause what sort of damage. But the damage from such an event should be factored into the cost analysis of the tunnel project.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Feb 18, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
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The craziest proposals are for the building of any dams.
First, cannot be accomplished in under about 20 years, it just takes that long.
Second, there is an existing alternative, which would be free: put excess water into the depleted aquifers, which are essentially huge reservoirs that have worked for millenia.
Third, it is far more efficient storage than above ground reservoirs, because there is no water loss due to evaporation.
Fourth, it would require little infrastructure to accomplish.
There is work being done on the feasibility of farm/orchard flooding in winter to allow water infiltration which seems very promising. Very cheap, very easy technologically, no risk.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Feb 18, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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In that Urban and industrial use of water consumes only 11% of the total water in the state, not much water is actually being used by the citizens of Los Angeles. Most of the water coming thru the aqueduct is going to farming the central valley. So why is DMT blaming the people of LA?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 19, 2018 - 12:04am PT
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Farming is about 2% of California's GDP, while they use the lion's share of the water, approximately 80%. Solution seems pretty simple to me. unfortunately the ag lobby is pretty powerful. Once again big business infecting politics.
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10b4me
Social climber
Janie's
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Feb 21, 2018 - 01:09pm PT
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Looks like the state wants to impose permanent water restrictions, regardless if there is a drought or not.
Not a bad thing imo.
My pet peeve, amongst others, is the irrigation of golf courses.
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Al_T.Tude
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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Feb 21, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
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Sorry about the drought, but the winter climbing in The Valley is epic. I hope that it's ok to discuss climbing on this forum. The cables on Half Dome were free of ice and snow for the Snake Dike descent in early February. It was sunny t shirt weather at the 8800 foot summit. Royal Arches was virtually bone dry and warm all the way up. Met a couple of guys who bailed on El Cap because of heat and were climbing The Rostrum in t shirts.
Take advantage of the epic weather and send something!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 21, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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Farming is about 2% of California's GDP, while they use the lion's share of the water, approximately 80%.
Not even remotely true.
From the Public Policy Institute of California
tatewide, average water use is roughly 50% environmental, 40% agricultural, and 10% urban, although the percentage of water use by sector varies dramatically across regions and between wet and dry years.
A bit disingenuous to water down the reality of ag consumption by including environmental use. That is water that is NOT CONSUMED in the interest of protecting the environment. If we were using that water there is no reason ag would not also be getting 80% of it also.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 21, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
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The figure about Agriculture being 2% of CA's GDP is factual, but can be misleading. Food is cheap so it contributes a small amount to the the GDP, but we grow lots of food here. Lots of almonds, lots of citrus, lots of stuff that people eat lots of.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Feb 21, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
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Interesting stuff on alfalfa, DMT. Thanks.
BAd
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