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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
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I have two herniated disks (L-5/S-1
So George, you've told us about one of them. What's the other one you ruptured? L4/L5? Which one?
Arne
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 23, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
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This may not be related but a few years ago i would occasionally tweak my lower back by bending over to pick something up or some other small thing. My back would stay tweaked for a day or two and then go back to normal. Started doing sit ups and the problem went away completely.
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craig morris
Trad climber
la
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Nov 23, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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If its a muscle spasm the sooner you get it to relax the better. I read that its a small muscle tear. the blood is treated as foreign and the muscle contracts. I find a way to press out the knot if i can. Wife I need some help here.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
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Craig,
You are correct in that the sooner you can stop the spasm the better.
However, they are not muscle injuries; they're usually small disc injuries, bulges or ruptures. That brings on inflammation which applies pressure to the sciatic nerve bundle, thereby calling the para-spinal muscles to contract (spasm) and lock you up so you can't move.
Essentially your brain says, "OK, you are not insuring spinal stability, in order to protect the vital information hi-way (your spinal cord) that I need, therefore I am not going to allow that to continue and have given orders to my muscle men to contract and lock you up tight, so that you don't go and do it again. The "it" refers to the incorrect lifting, or whatever you did to cause the spinal instability. The act of instability is what created the extreme pressure on the disc.
Loading the spine can also cause instability, especially when we don't employ muscles to keep proper posture. Think of an uncooked spaghetti noodle standing straight up on a table and you put your finger at the top and press down on it.
One way to look at it.
Arne
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
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+1 Donini
Same thing. The bending and lifting applied extreme pressure on the disc. When you're bent over forward your spine open up on the back side. Add that pressure and the disc begins to bulge or rupture out the back, usually off to one side, which is why we get asymmetrical back pain. It feels like it's a muscle injury because it hurts there (those muscles are now contracting/flexing continually) and they begin to feel like they're black and blue.
Arne
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Scole
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Nov 23, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
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I treat back problems with acupuncture all the time. Most back problems due to muscle spasm can be eliminated, or greatly reduced, in one or two treatments.
The root cause of the problem may need to be addressed as well, but you can be climbing again very quickly in most cases. Do not let a physical therapist do any "Dry Needling". These guys have very limited training,like a weekend,instead of four years like an acupuncturist. Dry Needling is painful and dangerous.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
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//Update:
Last night took my muscle relaxer + pain pill...slept on floor for half of the night then crawled into bed.
Woke up very stiff but improved, bought foam roller...did some rolling, feel like a million bucks.//
Great! Now, get moving.
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JonA
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 24, 2013 - 12:35am PT
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Do not let a physical therapist do any "Dry Needling". These guys have very limited training,like a weekend,instead of four years like an acupuncturist. Dry Needling is painful and dangerous.
Dry needling is neither dangerous nor painful but it IS very different from acupuncture. Dry needling was born from trigger point injections which have been performed by physicians for decades. It was found that the injectant had no effect on the trigger points, rather it was the insertion of the needle that created a reflexive neurological response that led to relaxation of taunt muscle bands. There is also some evidence that dry needling can aid in the recovery of denervated muscle. This makes it especially relevant for those suffering from severe forms of spinal pain involving radiculopathy.
I don't know the exact training required to perform the technique but I believe it's 96 hrs plus a 200 patient case study. There have been several studies that have examined adverse events such as infection and pneumothorax with an occurance rate stated as below 0.002%. I assume similar studies exist for acupuncture but they are probably written in Chinese.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Nov 24, 2013 - 05:02am PT
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had a few problems after a sneezing attack,
sneezing must put a lot of pressure on you back because i hit the carpet like a sack of dead flour and crawled on all fours after that one sneeze pinched whatever,
couldn't cook, so i drank log cabin for 3 days and smoked indica,
slept on a bed of rusty nails, then walked on hot coals with Tony,
everything was fine til i started foaming at the mouth,
then the Hep C kicked in so it was back to the JD and coke,
passed out at the movies and they swept me up with the popcorn,
woke up in a dumpster outside detroit somewhere,
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Nov 24, 2013 - 11:31am PT
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A point not yet mentioned here is a mineral deficiency exacerbated by vigorous exercise and dehydration. I had severe muscle spasms while loading my camping schitt in the trunk of the car after doing the Durrance on DT several years ago. I had some stretching on a Chiropractor's stretching apparatus that helped, but it was only a temporary solution. These days I take lots of dietary supplements, one of which is Calcium Citrate. A Calcium deficiency can cause/increase muscle spasms. Many of the other suggestions here are pretty good when coupled with some dietary assistance.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Nov 24, 2013 - 11:45am PT
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Just to keep the mystery of back spasms going....
I recently did a lot of sit ups which resulted in immediate horrible lower back spasms. Worst.Of.My.Life. Five weeks later, post-chiro, post-rolfing, post-swearing off sit-ups, and I'm still feeling it. It is much better as I can at least sit, walk and sleep again.
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weezy
climber
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Feb 13, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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Sciatica is ranging down my leg, as I type.
DMT, are you still suffering? i'm curious what kind of remedies work for you.
my sciatica has revisited me in the last few days. no pain yet, but my leg and foot is partially numb and i can't point my foot towards my head (no dorsal flexion).
last sciatic episode i was in excruciating pain and i got a scrip for muscle relaxers (generic flexerils, f*#king hate 'em. they make me so grouchy). that was the only thing that released the spasm, after much stretching and a couple of sessions with the massage therapist. i've been doing a few stretches in the morning. feels good but it's not getting whatever muscle is spazzing to quit spazzing.
edit: dorsiflexion, not dorsal flexion. :/
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weezy
climber
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Feb 13, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
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i'm no saint, locker. i don't mind a nice pharmaceutical-induced haze every once in a while but flexerils just make me feel anxious and pissy.
you got any?
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weezy
climber
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Feb 13, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
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thanks dingus. the doc gave me a shot of morphine and larry kicked me some oxys to get through the night until the pharmacy opened next morning. neither made the pain go away but i had fun, lol. the muscle relaxers made the pain go away but i still had numbness in my big toe. hopefully, i can avoid surgery.
ran into my massage therapist buddy in the grocery store last night and told him about the dorsal flexion issue in my foot and he was like "uh, you need to go see a doctor." good news is i may actually have health insurance by this afternoon!
aging is sooooo overrated. i urge all you young'uns to avoid it at all costs.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Feb 13, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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^^^^^^ lol. I wish! I ain't 20 anymore! ;)
^^^ Thanks for the solid advice, Mike! How's your recovery coming along?
Hey Weston! I'm doing good. Thanks for asking. I had a huge day on the hill yesterday, so the back is a little sore today for sure. I'm using less opiates which is nice. I switched physio's recently and my new one has me really focusing on my core.
If i managed to make it to Vegas around the start of March would you have a couple days to climb with me? I'll shoot ya a pm.
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