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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 17, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
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Sorry Weston, lots of back events.
The worst were while traveling..
But fortunately, knock wood, never thrown out while climbing.
Soma and hot baths and time (1-12 days in my case).
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 17, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
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About 7 days. 4 to 10, depending. When you take the opiates, don't lay around but rather go out on very gentle walks as soon as they kick in. You will gain more benefit from the medication that way. Try to walk in perfect, symmetrical form.
Arne
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 17, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
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If muscle spasms are the problem, and not something skeletal, try a thing called the Theracane. It's about fifty cents worth of green plastic molded in a way that allows you to put pressure on a muscle in a way that will release spasms. It retails for $35, which is kind of a lot relative to what it is, but it works. Resolved an ongoing back spasm issue that I had had for years. And I know Wayno has had good results as well.
Info at http://www.theracane.com/
available at amazon.com here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007YZ1BM/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=2246542511&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1825581841128247942&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_1yyw4lg45q_e
Bit of history... We were climbing at Smith Rocks eight or ten years ago, and visited the little climbing store there, probably looking for some chalk. I saw a weird green plastic thing hanging on one of the display racks. It looked like a cross between an oversized green candy-cane and some kind of weird sex toy, with strange knobs growing out of it. So I asked the guy working there what it was.
He picked one of them up and maneuvered it around so it was digging into his back. "It's for working muscle cramps out of your back."
We looked at him like he was maybe not all that smart, but before we could say anything he handed it over to me and said "Try it. Everybody who tries it says the same thing: 'This is better than sex!'"
I take the fifth on whether it's better than sex, but it sure does something amazing to your muscles.
I know it looks like a joke. Or some kind of snake oil, but it is serious relief for back spasms.
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TrackerTodd
Mountain climber
CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
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I have been dealing with this for awhile myself . I work a physical job, and all the sports I do are pretty strenuous . In my case its a mix of a slightly weak core, fatigued muscles and a little bit of age. Best thing you can do is Ice the heck out of it for the first 2 days then get heat on it a lot to get that inflammation down. Also walk, walk, walk and walk, laying sitting down is the worst thing you can do and laying down is not much better. For me its a good two weeks before I can ease back into Climbing , riding , surfing etc. Also get a 6 inch foam roller to help massage out the kinks, that has helped me a lot.
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Bluelens
climber
Pasadena, CA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
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My suggestion is to see a physical therapist.
One month after overdoing it while digging a shrub out of the garden, I woke up with a severe back spasm. My first ever. I waited out the night. I walked the next morning around the track at school for 20 minutes and it eased up.
I went to a physical therapist who specializes in working with dancers. I had a tender area in my lower spine, which was not obvious until I hopped off the exam table and grabbed my back wincing. He manipulated my legs until he loosened a stiff underused vertebrae, releasing a flood of endorphins as the muscle moved for the first time in ages. He prescribed several stretches and I've had no further problems. I have a minor scoliosis that never needed surgery which may have contributed to the underused muscle/stiff vertebrae situation.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 17, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
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Ahhh backs... I may know a thing or two about that issue.. Lol
Even before i broke mine, i've had several spasm attacks over the years. Usually they happen when i abuse my body too much, and don't stretch enough.
I find the key for me is usually a good soak in the hot tub, followed by some swimming, then another long soak, with a stretching session to fiinish the gig. Chiro, massage and accupuncture are also great tools. Usually if i did some maintenance it would start to return to normal after 2-3 days.
I also find that when my core is strong, my back mellows out. I've been meaning to try ghosts green machine out too, but haven't got my hands on one yet.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
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"Severe?" Try calling 911 and being picked up from the floor with the "clam shell" scooper twice and sitting in the ER with an IV until it settles down and someone can drive me home and carry me back inside. My back spasms and seizes after about 30 minutes following what feels like someone is tickling my lower back with a feather. On the Richter Scale, if it's a 7, figure 3.5 days to return to work and drive myself. I get tremors all the time and carry on. The sit-at-home remedy is vicodyn and valliam. The cause is usually a slip, stress, or overexertion from a downhill hike (compression). I pray it never happens on a trip far from home.
Severe to me means its a bedpan situation for few days.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Nov 17, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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Allow your body the time needed to thoroughly heal from this latest event before attempting any advanced stretching exercises.
I experienced the spasms you describe a dozen times or so over the last 30 years. The crippling effect of these events would last 2 weeks to 2 months.
I have not had serious back pain or spasms since 2004 when I learned to stretch properly and daily.
Iliopsoas muscle health is vital to back strength and health, and often completely ignored.
This is the stretch I feel was most effective in eliminating back pain and spasms from my life.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Nov 17, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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Where do you live? It's probable that you need some help from a professional who really knows structural mechanics of the body. If you live in the norcal bay area, I have THE BEST physical therapist ever. He can tell you exactly where you are off in your body mechanics that causes the problem. Icy heat and soaking, etc. are just band-aids. You gotta find out what the root of the problem is.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 17, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
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I have "A CURE" that worked for me, after years of Severe back spasms.
(it may not find favor, since it is pretty simple.)
MY SPASM-HISTORY!
I started having severe back spasms, in my mid-40's, usually after I had done "improper lifting”, after I was “out-of -shape."
After trying physicians, I ended up at a chiropractor, who said:
I can help you! But first reduce the swelling with ice and relaxation. After that, I was better, until it happened again.
I re-injured my back again, about 6 months later------and went to another chiropractor. After x-rays, I learned that I had chronic spinal-damage and I would be hopelessly crippled by my 60's without regular visits to that particular chiropractor. (I Have not been back since).
(I’m 64 now and my back feels great at the moment)
To her credit, the chiropractor recommended doing exercises to strengthen my back muscles.
Since then----15 years or so------I do try to avoid improper lifting and I do a monthly (that’s all it takes) series of 40-50 leg-lifts & set-ups.
I also try to do all my hiking/walking with trekking poles, which help with upper body muscles.
Back-spasms are gone --------if I do the above.
Back-spasms are back if I don’t.
Give it a try?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
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soma good
theracane good
walks good
hot baths good
PT good
Consulting a with a Physician good.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 18, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
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Sleep on the floor, with a thin foam mat.
Works wonders.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 18, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
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It started for when I was 21 - too much football. My subsequent lifestyle has not helped,
especially those bone-crushing packs. Being almost crushed by a backhoe didn't hep, either.
To wit, chiros haven't done a thing for me, nor has anything else. When an episode occurs I
just ride it out on the couch or bed. If the pain allows walking does seem to help. It went out
half way into a 64 mile death march in Sept. it took three hours almost until I was able to get
a greatly lightened pack on. After a few hours of hiking it felt a lot better but stopping and sitting
didn't help. This went on with decreasing severity for two more days.
I gotta go finish setting my concrete forms now and start hand-mixing 20 bags - penance is a bitch.
Ps
Re: Mucci's sleeping on the floor - when mine has been really bad I've tried that. Lying feels ok
but I've not been able to get up without phenomenal pain so I don't try it any more.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 18, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
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I have only had back spasms a few times, but man oh man - the first time I thought I was going to die!
I was in my garage, bending over sorting gear on bins on the ground. My knees were straight, not bent, and I was supporting all of my upper body weight with my back.
Suddenly I was lying on the concrete in so much pain I was unable to move!! I hadn't even *done* anything, except for leaning over incorrectly. This was very disturbing to me, because I was going to be on the wall in less than two weeks. However it worked out ok.
In Canada, you can buy methocarbamol 400mg tablets without a prescription. I took those for a few weeks, and was fine.
Another time, I was standing on Chickenhead Ledge, having just climbed Flight of the Albatross. I was bending over my pigs in the same body position, and the same thing happened, although I felt it coming on and managed to lie down and straighten my back out. I didn't have any of the methocarbamol with me, and had to rely on ibuprofen. It would have been a grim situation indeed 2500' up El Cap, if what had happened in my garage happened up there!
The third time was after doing a wall, and doing a road trip in a car. I stopped at a pharmacy to ask for the pills, and learned that I can only get them without a prescription in Canada. Accordingly, I bring those things with me everywhere now, but fortunately rarely need them. The time on the road trip was really painful, I had to get to a motel and fill the bathtub with water as hot as I could stand. The hot water always seems to help.
For me, it's pretty simple - when I am bending over sorting gear in the garage - or even on the wall! - I either need to kneel on the ground, or else bend down with my knees bent, and put my elbow on one of my knees to fully support my upper body weight so my back isn't doing it. In other words, avoid the body position that sets it off.
I have the pills with me most of the time, but rarely need them. However if I feel any discomfort coming on, I may take one or half of one as "preventative maintenance".
Another thing I have is a little chiropractic pillow that I bought at a health aids store, the kind of place where they sell wheelchairs and Depenz. It is a cylindrical pillow about 5" in diameter that is quite solid, and when I drive, I put it behind my lower back. The pillow initially feels "too thick" until you've sat with it there for a while, and I find with that support when I'm driving, my back doesn't bother me.
By the way, I'm more than twice your age. ;) And still gettin' 'er done up on the wall.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 18, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
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Well, Pete, have pity on us weak Merricans and try not to let the Republicans know that we're just doin' this act to elicit pity and Obamacare.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Nov 18, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
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Visit the Lavender Lounge Massage Parlor on Pearl Street in Boulder and ask for "Miss Kiki". She has a powerful right arm over-developed like tennis pro and she will provide immediate relief for anything that ails you. Just make sure you get "Miss Kiki". Accept no substitutes! One visit to an AMP (Asian massage parlor) is always worth twenty trips to a chiro-quack and, in the long run, much, much cheaper.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Nov 19, 2013 - 12:11am PT
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I've had lots of experience with this. Most unpleasant.
You have the inversion table. Use it.
Learn to relax those spasmy muscles. Light massage is great.
Drugs are ok for short periods but loose their effectiveness.
Glass of milk a day for calcium helps relax muscles if you can drink it.
Don't stretch the muscles when a spasm is happening. It just makes it worse.
I've noticed my back goes bad when I don't go climbing enough.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 19, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
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Nice Weston. Next time you hit the tub, when you're warmed up do that stretch in the video that pud linked! It's awesome. Then when you're done, jump in a pool or a cold tub. Allow your body to regulate it's temperature before you get out. At least 5 minutes in the cold. This will cool your muscles before they have a chance to contract and they will stay elongated.
I did this last night and it was awesome. My back is a little sore still, but nothing like the aching that was happening yesterday.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 19, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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hey there say, WML... hope it gets better soon,
:)
lots of neat advice here, for all kinds of things...
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JonA
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 19, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
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Well I wrote a novel on the subject. I usually write these things and never post them.....instead I use them to codify my thoughts on certain topics. But today I figured that if even one person benefits from my ramblings then it's probably worth the bandwidth or bytes or whatever. BTW I'm not associated with any of the products or companies I reference.
For those of us with episodic backpain after an initial accident there are really two main phases of recovery. The first phase is eliminating the acute muscle spasms. There has been a lot of great advice so far how to manage this. Heat, prolonged stretching, traction, muscle relaxants, chiropractic adjustment, dry needling are all good options. I also find that a natural ca-mg supplement called Floradix helps a lot of people and won't induce drowsiness.
But the more important phase by far is reducing and hopefully eliminating the episodes altogether and here we have to look at the work of Julie Hides about the importance of retraining the lumbar multifidus.
http://www.spine.org/Documents/Long_term_effects_stabilizing_exercises_1st_episode_LBP.pdf
First published in 1994 (and verified by dozens of subsequent publications) she found that the mudtifidus becomes weakened and inhibited after a single episode of acute back pain. More importantly, she found that patients who specifically trained the multifidus and transverse abdominus in rehab were 12.5 times less likely to have a reoccurence of pain in a years time and 9 times less likely to have a reoccurence in 2-3 years follow up. Since we highly suspect that each reoccurence of episodic back pain is accompanied by additional damage to the disc (which has minimal ability to heal) then it becomes even more imperative to avoid reoccurence.
The specific exercises referenced in the Hides paper are very similar to the superman and floor roll exercises recommended by tioga. I would personally recommend a single visit to a PT or pilates instructor to learn some of these exercises...the ability to isolate the multifidus and TA is not natural for most of us and if these muscles are inhibited and not firing then one must consciously contract them initially (they reflexively fire in healthy individuals with no history of back pain).
After a couple months of religiously performing these 'core' exercises then I agree that dead lifts are a great exercise to keep the multifidus and TA strong. The problem that I have with only performing pilates type core exercises is that they are not functional. Just the other day at the gym I watched a guy perform a 20 minute core strengthening routine on the mats. Once done he promptly walked over to the dumbell rack, bent over with a severely rounded back and picked up a pair of 35 lbers.
The beauty of the deadlift is that it teaches you how to lift. It teaches you how to differentiate hip flexion (aka hip hinge) from lumbar spine flexion. It's well accepted that shear stress is what causes most of us to damage our backs, and if one examines the deadlift it is apparent that a lot of extrinsic shear stress is placed on the spine in a deadlift. However, when performed with a neutral spine, the spinal erectors are perfectly oriented to counteract this shear and the multifidus are perfectly oriented to stiffen the motion segment (vertebra). However when performed with a rounded back, the spinal erectors are no longer oriented to counteract shear and the multifidus is in a weakened, lengthened position. The only structures capable of resisting shear in this position are the inert structures of the spine including the disc.
http://www.sfu.ca/~leyland/Kin201%20Files/Deadlift%20Mechanics.pdf
So the moral of the story: learn to deadlift but approach it like how most people approach learning the golf swing.....become a student of the sport. Watch youtube videos (here's a great one:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2cwGRCnmgag&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D2cwGRCnmgag);, hire a personal trainer for a session (again I like the FMS group: http://www.functionalmovement.com/experts ), post videos of yourself on knowledgeable forums. And start with a light weight kettlebell from an elevated position. Have realistic expectations of how heavy you should ever go. For someone with a history of back pain I would personally only recommend using kettlebells or a hex bar and always pulling from an elevated start position. And wait a looong time before increasing weight, as in a year or more to work up to body weight if this is your goal. Most will laugh at this notion because this is a relatively light weight but I would argue that for those of us who do not want to pack on muscle then there is no need to go much heavier.
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JonA
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 19, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
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It is thought that some people respond favorably to traction because it provides a very gentle, slow stretch to hypertonic muscles. For other people it is thought that the decompression of the disc is what provides the pain relief. The latter group can often benefit from taking several rest breaks throughout the day (lying on your side, pillow between knees for 15 min). Also, don't forget about DIY traction like floating in a pool with a noodle under your arms and with ankle weight for added benefit. Probably ony useful if you live somewhere with a pool.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Nov 19, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
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No drugs, no chiropractor.
Acupuncture. Simple.
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Johnny K.
climber
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Nov 19, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
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So much can be said about back problems. Great advice already mentioned above. My 2 cents,take your time in understanding what damage is really done to your back,do not rush into anything(coming from someone who has received 3 lumbar epidurals and regrets it)
Get an MRI done,research what is causing the pain. Find what works best for your specific situation,try to avoid using pain medications,unless its beyond emergency. Focus on staying active even when it hurts like heck to sit down or walk. Healthy eating,positive mental outlook,breathing exercises,stretching,heat,water,inversion and deep tissue massage therapy have helped tremendously.
Also for myself I take Turmeric,lysine and Echinacea instead of 800mg Ibuprofens for regular daily inflammation.
More info along the same lines
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/143689/Lumbar-Disk-Rupture-L5-S1
Hope you keep feeling better Weston,cheers!
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Nov 20, 2013 - 12:54am PT
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I usually pay about $60-80 with two sessions about one week apart. I have two herniated disks (L-5/S-1) and went through both treatment with medication (pain relievers and muscle relaxers) and chiropractors, neither of which gave me relief as quickly and as thoroughly as acupuncture. I now ride a horse (Andalusian stallion) about 3-4 days per week, and coach and ref youth soccer, which involves a lot of running and quick movements, and am fairly pain free. When it does flare up, I go in to see my guy (Chinese) and he fixes me up.
I do agree that some sort of stretching and moderate strength training help prevent injuries, as does refraining from basketball, volleyball, and bailing from high-ball boulders.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 20, 2013 - 01:17am PT
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Almost became a plegic after a chiropractic adjustment last year, seeking relief from a suspected back spasm. It resulted in a 50% occlusion of my spinal canal from a posteriorly herniated C6-7 disc. Although a prior proponent of chiropractic therapy, I, for obvious reasons, can't recommend them now.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 20, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
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tioga...
Mine came on next to the spine and shoulder blade, a typical sore spot, after waking up one morning. I mean, who hasn't had one of those one time in there life, attributing it to "just slept wrong"? It lingered over almost two months, to the point where sitting exacerbated it too much, and standing with my right arm over my head was the best POC. I FINALLY, through the advice of my RN wife, saw my PCP, wherewhich his PA rx'd me flexeril, Tramadol and PT. I started all of the above, but the PT was making it worse, so with my "stinkin' thinkin'" and chiro right next door, I made an appt. to begin treatment...pain control was a serious issue at this point.
The female chiro assessed me and wanted xrays and a CT before proceeding. So, I hopped over to the imaging center for an xray, but the CT required an appt a few days out. I brought the film back and the chiro, who didn't see anything obvious, but still preferred the CT results. She then renigged on her decision and offered an adjustment. I was all over it.
To make a long story longer, the next day I experienced a sudden onset of numbness that started near my right armpit and radiated around my chest, then down my right arm, putting lots of pressure in my elbow, then down to my finger tips, after pulling into a parking lot to get a coffee. I'm an ex Paramedic, and this freaked me out... I knew something was wrong. I was in a neurosurgeons office the next day with the CT results up on a laptop, and it didn't take rocket science to figure out what I was looking at. I had an anterior approach discectomy a week later. That week wait was brutal. I hope to never relive that. My neurosurgeon said after the surgery, "You could have been paralyzed young man. But, you're out of danger now." When he turned to leave my bedside, I dropped my face into my hands and cried, at (50) years old. Praise God.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Nov 20, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
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I think a lot of positive results from these 'therapies' come from mild form of hypnosis/mind conditioning, which is a very powerful healing force, but not from any kind of mechanical action on body.
I believe this "mild form of hypnosis/mind conditioning" is known as the "placebo response" or the "placebo cure". Can actually be quite effective (if only temporary).
Your bucks are better spent on a "Happy Ending" from Miss Kiki at the Lavender Lounge AAMP.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Nov 20, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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I couldn't find Miss KiKi on Nancy's list or the AARP Signature Approved web.site ?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Nov 20, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
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A good chiropractor will do X-rays on you before they ever do an adjustment. If they don't do X-rays - run!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Nov 20, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
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+1 on gentle walks. Fricking back pain sucks; sciatica even more. walking got rid of them for me.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Nov 20, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
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Some very excellent research bears out the orthopedic PT mantra-"motion is lotion!"
A well applied Theracane is worth the price of admission too.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 22, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
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I'm a chiropractor. A "sports chiropractor" if you will! There are good ones and bad ones, just like there are good and bad dentists, lawyers, medical doctors, etc. X-rays are not absolutely necessary in all cases. I'm strongly on the "evidence based" side of the coin, so think about that, scientific evidence related to chiropractic! Yep, it's a thing! Chiropractic is a definite art and science, so it does not require the patient to "believe" in order for it to work. It ain't placebo... that is all! If anyone has any questions, please please hit me up, I'm here for you, friends of SuperTopo.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 22, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
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back spasms
Go to physical therapy and get electronic stimulation
Fries the back muscles into submission. Works wonders. Electrical stimulation causes tonic contraction of back muscles, causing them to relax, and stop going into spasms after the treatment is complete. Is it truly an amazing treatment - if you are truly treating muscle spasms and not anything else.
Avoid quack-ro-practors, seek real care.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 22, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
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Structural meaning.....?
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 22, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
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Avoid all healthcare advice from internet forums made up of laypeople. Seek advice from the healthcare professional of your choice.
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JonA
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 22, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
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Chirogeek is a good website full of evidence based research.
http://www.chirogeek.com/
I'd suggest starting with the page on internal disc distruption. This has been found to be the cause of at least 40% of chronic back pain and up to three quarters of all severely acute non-specific back pain so statistically it's the most likely scenario. Plus all back pain is 'stuctural'...your symptoms might be muscle spasms but these spasms are in response to structural damage in your spine. A lot of doctors don't like to say this because it freaks patients out (and poor outcomes have been correlated with certain fear avoidance behaviors adopted by some patients) but if you're an educated person then I believe that the more you know the better.
As good as that website is it doesn't address conservative care very well. I'm still a big believer in addressing the acute spasm and then strengthening like crazy to avoid exacerbations. If the heat and stretching and traction aren't cutting it then try dry needling (or acupuncture if you live in CA). Lots of evidence supports dry needling as a very effective method to address muscle spasms.
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Johnny K.
climber
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Nov 22, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
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Everyone on the internet seems to be a professional physician. If you have decent medical coverage or cash,try to get an MRI/CT done, forget your normal doctor,they arent back specialists. Forget the internet quacks. Get recommendations from your DR or local DR's,if you will. An MRI or CT scan can help you understand whats happening to the structure of your spine and inside your back,to make sure its not anything to do with any nerves.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 22, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
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Ok, some comments from a physician who has treated thousands of people with back pain:
-first, back pain is not a diagnosis, it is a symptom.
-if a problem is caused by trauma, it probably deserves immediate ER evaluation (not the situation described)
-the only worrisome problem that falls into the emergency category is an actual neurological abnormality. That has not been described in this case.
-all methods of imaging have limitations. You have had plain x-rays, which should generally rule out broken bones or eroded bones by tumors. You can spend thousands on imaging studies and learn little or nothing.
The most common value of an MRI is in evaluating a pressed nerve...I already know that you don't have that, because you have not described that problem. That'll be $3,000, please. :) Point is, imaging is not always needed.
-What you are describing is classic positional muscle spasm....very common.
It responds well to rest, heat, traction, meds. I always liked having people sleep on the floor.
-I found Chiropractic to be very useful in this syndrome. Getting a recommendation from your doctor will often separate the good ones from the poor. Hopefully you have access to a good doctor.
-recurrences, particularly in the recovery phase, is very common.
-I generally recommend very simple, conservative, and low cost measures for this problem, as you described it. I'm not sure that I saw you describe it, but I've found stretching to be very important. Give it time to heal.
-episodes of this often indicate poor back mechanics. A program that works to strengthen the core muscles, particularly the deep abdomen, seems to be very preventative going forward.
-I've had it, and it is miserable when you have it. Hope you get better quickly!
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Nov 23, 2013 - 09:50am PT
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The only advice I have to offer that I don't believe has been talked about on this thread is to find a good sports massage therapist. Then when you've found a good one (not an easy task) find out if they are good at trigger point therapy and active release. This is not to take anything away from chiropractic et al but my time as a climber was characterized with many episodes of back muscle spasms.
IMO most issues like this stem from muscle overuse then any structural factor.
YMMV of course
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
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I have two herniated disks (L-5/S-1
So George, you've told us about one of them. What's the other one you ruptured? L4/L5? Which one?
Arne
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 23, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
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This may not be related but a few years ago i would occasionally tweak my lower back by bending over to pick something up or some other small thing. My back would stay tweaked for a day or two and then go back to normal. Started doing sit ups and the problem went away completely.
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craig morris
Trad climber
la
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Nov 23, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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If its a muscle spasm the sooner you get it to relax the better. I read that its a small muscle tear. the blood is treated as foreign and the muscle contracts. I find a way to press out the knot if i can. Wife I need some help here.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
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Craig,
You are correct in that the sooner you can stop the spasm the better.
However, they are not muscle injuries; they're usually small disc injuries, bulges or ruptures. That brings on inflammation which applies pressure to the sciatic nerve bundle, thereby calling the para-spinal muscles to contract (spasm) and lock you up so you can't move.
Essentially your brain says, "OK, you are not insuring spinal stability, in order to protect the vital information hi-way (your spinal cord) that I need, therefore I am not going to allow that to continue and have given orders to my muscle men to contract and lock you up tight, so that you don't go and do it again. The "it" refers to the incorrect lifting, or whatever you did to cause the spinal instability. The act of instability is what created the extreme pressure on the disc.
Loading the spine can also cause instability, especially when we don't employ muscles to keep proper posture. Think of an uncooked spaghetti noodle standing straight up on a table and you put your finger at the top and press down on it.
One way to look at it.
Arne
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
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+1 Donini
Same thing. The bending and lifting applied extreme pressure on the disc. When you're bent over forward your spine open up on the back side. Add that pressure and the disc begins to bulge or rupture out the back, usually off to one side, which is why we get asymmetrical back pain. It feels like it's a muscle injury because it hurts there (those muscles are now contracting/flexing continually) and they begin to feel like they're black and blue.
Arne
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Scole
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Nov 23, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
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I treat back problems with acupuncture all the time. Most back problems due to muscle spasm can be eliminated, or greatly reduced, in one or two treatments.
The root cause of the problem may need to be addressed as well, but you can be climbing again very quickly in most cases. Do not let a physical therapist do any "Dry Needling". These guys have very limited training,like a weekend,instead of four years like an acupuncturist. Dry Needling is painful and dangerous.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Nov 23, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
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//Update:
Last night took my muscle relaxer + pain pill...slept on floor for half of the night then crawled into bed.
Woke up very stiff but improved, bought foam roller...did some rolling, feel like a million bucks.//
Great! Now, get moving.
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JonA
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 24, 2013 - 12:35am PT
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Do not let a physical therapist do any "Dry Needling". These guys have very limited training,like a weekend,instead of four years like an acupuncturist. Dry Needling is painful and dangerous.
Dry needling is neither dangerous nor painful but it IS very different from acupuncture. Dry needling was born from trigger point injections which have been performed by physicians for decades. It was found that the injectant had no effect on the trigger points, rather it was the insertion of the needle that created a reflexive neurological response that led to relaxation of taunt muscle bands. There is also some evidence that dry needling can aid in the recovery of denervated muscle. This makes it especially relevant for those suffering from severe forms of spinal pain involving radiculopathy.
I don't know the exact training required to perform the technique but I believe it's 96 hrs plus a 200 patient case study. There have been several studies that have examined adverse events such as infection and pneumothorax with an occurance rate stated as below 0.002%. I assume similar studies exist for acupuncture but they are probably written in Chinese.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Nov 24, 2013 - 05:02am PT
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had a few problems after a sneezing attack,
sneezing must put a lot of pressure on you back because i hit the carpet like a sack of dead flour and crawled on all fours after that one sneeze pinched whatever,
couldn't cook, so i drank log cabin for 3 days and smoked indica,
slept on a bed of rusty nails, then walked on hot coals with Tony,
everything was fine til i started foaming at the mouth,
then the Hep C kicked in so it was back to the JD and coke,
passed out at the movies and they swept me up with the popcorn,
woke up in a dumpster outside detroit somewhere,
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Nov 24, 2013 - 11:31am PT
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A point not yet mentioned here is a mineral deficiency exacerbated by vigorous exercise and dehydration. I had severe muscle spasms while loading my camping schitt in the trunk of the car after doing the Durrance on DT several years ago. I had some stretching on a Chiropractor's stretching apparatus that helped, but it was only a temporary solution. These days I take lots of dietary supplements, one of which is Calcium Citrate. A Calcium deficiency can cause/increase muscle spasms. Many of the other suggestions here are pretty good when coupled with some dietary assistance.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Nov 24, 2013 - 11:45am PT
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Just to keep the mystery of back spasms going....
I recently did a lot of sit ups which resulted in immediate horrible lower back spasms. Worst.Of.My.Life. Five weeks later, post-chiro, post-rolfing, post-swearing off sit-ups, and I'm still feeling it. It is much better as I can at least sit, walk and sleep again.
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weezy
climber
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Feb 13, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
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Sciatica is ranging down my leg, as I type.
DMT, are you still suffering? i'm curious what kind of remedies work for you.
my sciatica has revisited me in the last few days. no pain yet, but my leg and foot is partially numb and i can't point my foot towards my head (no dorsal flexion).
last sciatic episode i was in excruciating pain and i got a scrip for muscle relaxers (generic flexerils, f*#king hate 'em. they make me so grouchy). that was the only thing that released the spasm, after much stretching and a couple of sessions with the massage therapist. i've been doing a few stretches in the morning. feels good but it's not getting whatever muscle is spazzing to quit spazzing.
edit: dorsiflexion, not dorsal flexion. :/
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weezy
climber
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Feb 13, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
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i'm no saint, locker. i don't mind a nice pharmaceutical-induced haze every once in a while but flexerils just make me feel anxious and pissy.
you got any?
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weezy
climber
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Feb 13, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
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thanks dingus. the doc gave me a shot of morphine and larry kicked me some oxys to get through the night until the pharmacy opened next morning. neither made the pain go away but i had fun, lol. the muscle relaxers made the pain go away but i still had numbness in my big toe. hopefully, i can avoid surgery.
ran into my massage therapist buddy in the grocery store last night and told him about the dorsal flexion issue in my foot and he was like "uh, you need to go see a doctor." good news is i may actually have health insurance by this afternoon!
aging is sooooo overrated. i urge all you young'uns to avoid it at all costs.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Feb 13, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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^^^^^^ lol. I wish! I ain't 20 anymore! ;)
^^^ Thanks for the solid advice, Mike! How's your recovery coming along?
Hey Weston! I'm doing good. Thanks for asking. I had a huge day on the hill yesterday, so the back is a little sore today for sure. I'm using less opiates which is nice. I switched physio's recently and my new one has me really focusing on my core.
If i managed to make it to Vegas around the start of March would you have a couple days to climb with me? I'll shoot ya a pm.
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