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adam d
climber
CA
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Sep 17, 2013 - 07:39pm PT
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Joined the SSCA and sent the feedback form.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 17, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
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Good post, Chief.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Sep 18, 2013 - 10:15am PT
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It reflects a different "wilderness" ethic, Riley. I'm sending in my name as soon as I get off this post.
Funny perspective. In the US, you can drive to the top of 14'ers, in Canada, you are lucky to drive to within miles of the base of a mountain. Sure - we may have a teahouse at Lake Louise, or a the Asulkan Hut, but no cell service anywhere, no roads up to 9000' like the whitney portal, or to the top like White Mountain, etc.
I'll be in Europe next month to see what they have going on in the alps....
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thirsty
climber
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Sep 18, 2013 - 11:14am PT
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I sent you the e-mail.
There are good people working in the FS and some good community outreach programs, but over the last 30 years of my climbing life it does seem like the FS is creeping towards bureaucratic stagnation, ineffectiveness and general dysfunction. It seems like they manage trail and backcountry access more like a park service from one of the more timid states every year. They close even those trails where erosion is not an issue after fires because trees might fall on people.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Fresno, CA
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Sep 18, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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Signed up and sent in comments to FS. Thank you for mentioning this issue.
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Sep 18, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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Photos to keep this on the front page!
Kris can you shoot me a PM with your email address. I'm curious about what re-bolting project you have going on.
I was just on Romantic Warrior for the first time and was kinda shocked to see all the 1/4" bolts and bunch of tat on the route. I understand that there is a lot going on in the area and wanted to offer some re-bolting help.
We came back to work on the route on our second day and pulled and patched a bunch of these old bolts. Only 1 bolt was actually replaced, since all but one anchor already had 2 3/8" bolts. We put ring and chains on the upper anchors. The anchors before the 12a traverse, and the one below the 12a thin corner not currently set up for rapping.
Would love to help out in the future. The face climb to the right, Sea of Tranquility, looks like a mega replacement project.
Thanks again for all your hard work on the guidebook, doing route maintenance and for working on the current access issue.
Cheers,
Luke
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 18, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
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Thanks Luke!
Almost fixed lines for replacement out on Sea years ago, but partner bailed...big project for sure!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Sep 18, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
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Is the USFS planning on rebuilding the fire lookout? If they do they will want to repair the road.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 18, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
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There is an effort underway to rebuild the lookout. It will take a long time, they don't do things today like they did in 1938 when the old one was built. First a geologist must examine the site to determine if the rock is sound enough. Then an engineer must go up and examine the old concrete foundations to determine if they are sound or must be replaced, etc., etc...
And of course there is the issue of funding.
It is best in the meantime to separate the maintenance of the road, and when the gate opens and closes from any needs having to do with the lookout.
You are correct though, a working lookout will guarantee the road is kept passable. There should be a Facebook page called "Needles Lookout" showing up in a week or two. That will be a source for information if that subject interests you. Personally I support the idea, but not everyone does.
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Sep 19, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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I'm a little confused on the info and form to send to the FS.
This is the info from the OP:Road 21so5, The Needles Road
22s69 the Dome Rock Road
21s50 to 20s79 to 20s53a the access roads to Hermit Spire
21s50 to 20s71 to 20s81 the access roads to Trilogy (McIntyre Rock)
22s82 the access road from Johnsondale to Elephant Knob, Sentinel Peak, the K and L Wonder Bluffs, the lower Needles, Demon Dome and Merlin Dome.
Does each road need a separate form?
The Needles road is 21so5,correct?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 19, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
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21S05 is the Needles road. This road is the main issue right now.
Patrick listed the others to bring attention to them, but if you send in the form, list road 21S05. Be sure your subject line reads "travel analysis process."
Thanks!
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Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
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Sep 22, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
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Im in! I love the needles. I will say that needle rock road and dome rock road have been navigated successfully in the past month in a Toyota corolla.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Sep 23, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
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I'm in- didn't see this in time for the Sep 20 deadline- but I sent in the form anyways
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Sagebrusher
Sport climber
Iowa
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Sep 23, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
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The FS doesn't own "The Needles" they're in Custer State Park. :)
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Fixdpin
Trad climber
Springville,CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
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Hello all,
Thank you so much for all of your responses, pro and con, negative and positive. I have been processing over 150 responses to my plea to join the SSCA and help make a difference on this access issue. I am making an SSCA contact list and will send out email updates on this and any other access issues that come up in the southern Sierra. Once again, thank you for your support and activism.
Needless to say some of the responses on this threat have been interesting and I feel compelled to try and clear up some of the muddier water that is beginning to flow into this thread. First of all, I do not own property in the mountains. I do own property in Springville, but it is not threatened at this time with any access problems. I listed all of the roads that I listed, not because they show up red, green or yellow on a forest service map, but because they are all roads, paved in some cases and not paved in others that make up the motor vehicle access to all of the climbing venues in the Giant Sequoia National Monument, Sequoia National Forest, Great Western Divide Highway area.
21s53a, is the last spur road creating access from the northwest to Hermit Spire. I got that number from the map on page 16 of "Southern Sierra Rock Climbing: The Needles" published in 1992 by Chockstone Press. It is a very short- about 1.5 miles long -- and I don't know why it is not on the FS map. Perhaps my source for this road number is in error. The road takes off a few hundred yards NE of the Golden Trout Wilderness Pack Station, and is technically in the GTW.
I would agree with the post stating that the FS has no money to maintain any roads, to a point! If the FS had "no money" then they would not be doing a study to see which roads are essential and which one are not. I believe that they do have some money and and are trying to gather data to determine how to spend it. Or they have to do a study to submit a road maintenance plan in order to get funding for such purposes. I don't honestly know, but I believe that if they are doing the survey, they want to maintain roads and they have the means to do it.
Here is my experience of the road situation for the past several years. Beginning in the mid-nineties, I had begun to notice the roads to The Needles and other areas were not being maintained as well or as often as they were when I first started climbing there in the late 70's. For example, instead of any routine grading of loose rocks branches and berms being done, only areas of severe erosion, severe berm damage, large rock fall, or full-on tree blockage were being graded or water barred, and only fallen trees and large rocks were being removed from the road.
Furthermore, these minimal maintenance steps were not being taken in early spring when the snow had fully melted and The Needles could otherwise be accessible to users, but only when the fire lookout manned at the beginning of fire season. So the road began to stay closed to the public until the FS wanted to man the lookout. In past years the road used to stay open until the first snow of the season, sometimes as late as November. But in recent years they began to close the road as soon as the tower was closed at the end of fire season.
In more recent years, the last two years, the FS has not had a tower at The Needles and the road and toilet "maintenance" has been nil. With recent heavy rain storms water runnels have formed in the road and been deepened by vehicles attempting to get in and out. The FS says that the road is a priority and that it is number 2 on their list of roads to service.
The Access Fund has contacted the district ranger and asked about the road and the issues of access and maintenance. The FS says it will be maintaining the road and that they are going to have an engineer out there to determine what has to be done. They are not sure if they will get to this road this year or next, and of course nature will have some say in this as winter approaches. It is my experience of the FS that they always take twice as long to do anything as they say they will. In the meantime the road continues to deteriorate and the cost of repairing it naturally will go up.
I believe it is important to inform the FS of how important this road is to climbers and other user groups, how important The Needles is to climbers near and far, climbing history, and to the Giant Sequoia National Monument as a natural resource of interest to all who love the out-of-doors.
All of the roads I mentioned in my previous post are significant access roads for all of the climbing in this area. I believe that If the FS in not made fully aware of how important all of these roads are to user groups, and given their continuing struggle for funding and support, they will begin to only maintain those roads that public strongly identifies as significant and let go of those roads that they hear nothing about.
If you have read this far, thanks for your time.
Patrick Paul
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 23, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
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THE most CLASSIC look out ever
In California.
Just to set the record straight This is the most classic ever... :-)
Not for those prone to sleep-walking, not that any lookout is. ;-)
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Man things change fast!
The first half of the road is looking great! It either got plowed or graded in the last two weeks!!
The end of the road, with the worst ruts and bumps is still in bad condition. I'm guessing it stayed as is since there will need to be some irrigation pipes installed.
Psyched for the progress!
 Luke
10/7/2013
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Sam E
Boulder climber
Malibu
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Jan 12, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
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Is the road open? Fixed up? Closed for the season?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 12, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Call:
Tule River Ranger District
Springville, CA
559-539-2607
They should know if the gate is open. They might not have info on the condition of the road. Of course there's always Voodoo. For info on that road (Lloyd Meadows Rd,22S82) call:
Cannell Meadow Ranger District
Kernville, CA
760-376-3781
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jan 12, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
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Fixdpin, you spelled Needles wrong;
Needless to say some of the responses on this threat have been interesting and I feel compelled to try and clear up some of the muddier water that is beginning to flow into this thread.
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