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Fixdpin
Trad climber
Springville,CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 15, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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The Needles is in danger of being closed permanently at the road unless the F.S. decides to repair and maintain the road. I am asking anyone who is interested in helping to prevent loss of access to The Needles to email me at pkpaul@springvillewireless.com and simply state: "I want to join the SSCA." give your full name, email address, and a phone number where you can be reached. That is it. There is no membership fee. We need to have a viable membership roster in order to represent as a climbing community in future meetings and negotiations with the USDA Forest Service.
The road was closed on August 16th this year because it is getting so bad it's almost impassable by any but four-wheel drive vehicles. The F. S. chose to reopen the road after they realized that they probably couldn't do anything about the problem this year. They need to know how important this road is to the climbing community.
The forest is currently doing a road use study for the area and soliciting feedback online to determine which roads they should let go and which ones they should keep-up and maintain. You can help keep these climber access roads open by going online and taking the survey at:
[url="http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sequoia/landmanagement/planning/?cid=stelprdb5435007
Choose the feedback form, fill it out, and follow the instructions for returning to the study.
The roads in question are:
Road 21so5, The Needles Road
22s69 the Dome Rock Road
21s50 to 20s79 to 20s53a the access roads to Hermit Spire
21s50 to 20s71 to 20s81 the access roads to Trilogy (McIntyre Rock)
22s82 the access road from Johnsondale to Elephant Knob, Sentinel Peak, the K and L Wonder Bluffs, the lower Needles, Demon Dome and Merlin Dome.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 15, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
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Is this (21so5) the dirt/gravel road that leads to Needles spring trailhead and the little primitive campground just prior? , I.e. the trailhead to the Fire Tower, and the std approach to Witch/Sorcerer/Charlatan etc?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 15, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
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Definitely want to join. I have a place up there (Camp Nelson) that will be far less interesting without access to The Needles. I'll shoot you an email.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Sep 16, 2013 - 08:34am PT
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prized destination?! lmao.
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Matt's
climber
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Sep 16, 2013 - 10:17am PT
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bump
i agree with clint, this seems like something worth involving the access fund in.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 16, 2013 - 10:26am PT
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The AF is involved. We need a local organization with a member list to negotiate with the USFS.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Sep 16, 2013 - 10:51am PT
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Weird situation. After living in California and climbing there - and everywhere else, I assumed that climbers could live in cars.
Then I moved to BC. Couldn't access most mountains because the roads were so bad or ditched for runoff- I had to buy a 4wd.
The government never thought about making rules or closing the roads just because they were bad though! If they didn't have the money - well, it is still the people's land, they let us get there if we can.
Is it easier to form a political group etc. or just release the need for controlling everyone and making more laws and then trying to enforce them, etc. Why not just live and let live? Don't you live in the land of the free?
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TeleRoss
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 16, 2013 - 10:55am PT
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"land of the free" hahahahaha that's a good one!
But yes, this is a very important issue. The road should remain open for those who are able to drive up it.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 16, 2013 - 11:00am PT
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Done. Sent you the mail PkPaul.
Why the FS can't simply use a comment box on the web platform instead of the archaic, "download this form, fill it out, mail it back as an attached word file" format is beyond me. But I'll do it.
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Deekaid
climber
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Sep 16, 2013 - 11:09am PT
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Yes, this part.
We need to have a viable membership roster in order to represent as a climbing community in future meetings and negotiations with the USDA Forest Service
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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Sep 16, 2013 - 11:21am PT
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The road has some drainage issues that are causing the problem. I think a few strategically placed water bars would lessen the problem in the long run. Climbers could easily do this over a weekend.
And is the road really that bad? When I was there a few weeks ago I saw three Prius' that had made it through.
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alina
Trad climber
CA
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Sep 16, 2013 - 11:22am PT
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Do you want me to send your original post as an e-mail to some local climbing lists?
Also, as people are easily confused and lazy, maybe make the form available with the correct road information filled out, so all people have to do is fill out their names?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 16, 2013 - 11:34am PT
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Alina, and anyone else who wants to, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the form filled out by Jason Kieth at the Access Fun with a map, GPS coordinates and all relevant info. You just plug in your contact info and send it off.
And is the road really that bad? When I was there a few weeks ago I saw three Prius' that had made it through.
Some folks are still getting in with normal vehicles, but it ain't easy. Your right drainage is the problem. Another couple of big T-Storms like last fall and it will be really bad. This is a situation where the USFS is letting a lot of roads go, and the squeaky wheel will get attention. We need to be the squeaky wheel.
And FWIW they have quit cleaning the toilet facility at the trailhead, which was paid for by the AF and the SSCA. The truck which drives around the area cleaning a large number of such facilities will not use the road now. The result is that human waste is becoming a problem around the camp again as it was before the toilet was built.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 16, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
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And is the road really that bad? When I was there a few weeks ago I saw three Prius' that had made it through. I was there the second weekend of August and the road was pretty darn lousy. The worst I'd ever seen it. Those folks must have been really motivated. I guess if you've driven all that way your tendency is to go for it.
Someone who written up thread about just letting the road go and doing the approach by mt. bike. That sounds tempting initially--the notion of the place being almost a quiet, backcountry area--but you still have the human waste issue that would remain unresolved, the lack of water and accessibility issues to folks who don't have the where with all to hike a bike in. The road really needs to stay open.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 16, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
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I work as a volunteer trail crew leader on this forest.
Your concept will not work.
You cannot "negotiate" with the FS, because the FS has no money.
They have no money to fund ANY rangers or ANY trail maintenance workers, AT ALL......what you would call fundamental and basic work of the forest.
What MIGHT work is to have the county bring in their grader, which they use on other roads in the Kennedy Meadows-Blackrock area, and spend a day grading the road. I've met the fellow who runs it several times, and he is a cool dude, and knows what he is doing.
I don't know what the blacktop road condition is that is stopping the sewer truck. Perhaps someone interested might ask them? Sometimes you find easy fixes.....
The power politics of the old days......where one organized their group to overcome the groups with other priorities.......pretty much gone, on issues like this.
You cannot negotiate the expenditure of money that does not exist.
I will say, though, that the FS people have been very open to volunteer efforts of all kinds.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 16, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
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Now that you mention it, Ron, I realize that the road to Ponderosa is kept open year-round. That means the county has graders, etc on the west side for that purpose.
but I'm also aware of devices designed to be dragged behind a 4WD or even a ATV, to grade a dirt road. I know where some are located on the forest, but I'll bet they have that on the west side, as well.
And here's a thought: There are a number of active ATV clubs over there. There is a FS employee, Bob Frenes, who is in charge of such things on the forest (paid for by the ATV DMV stickers). I'll bet he could coordinate a collaboration between interested climbers and an ATV group to drag the road.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 16, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
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Unlike Yosemite Valley, Zion NP, and Joshua Tree, rock climbing is not a highly visible activity in Sequoia National Forest / Giant Sequoia National Monument. Also the District Ranger for The Monument is new in the position so it shouldn't surprise us if he is still getting up to speed re user groups.
The first two things that need doing are to beef up the SSCA member list (see Patrick Paul's OP) and for all interested parties to fill out and submit the feedback form on the Travel Analysis Process page.
If you want a copy of this form as completed by The Access Fund, complete with a map and GPS info drop me a PM and I'll send it to you. Then all you have to do is fill in your contact info and send it in.
The Access Fund is going to help with the process of getting a memorandum of understanding with the USFS which is a first step toward any future discussions.
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jsj
climber
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Sep 16, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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So... I'd like to see this road remain open and passable. Is my time better spent signing up for the SSCA or emailing the USFS directly or something else?
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Sep 16, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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Was out there this past weekend and the road could use some work. Despite this I saw a civic and corolla at the campground. The toilet could also use some love, but is more dirty than full.
I agree that a few trail days should really help fix the road. Perhaps we could get the Access Fund jeep and their tools.
I think a few pieces of irrigation pipe and some rock work would drastically reduce the impacts of storms/water run-off. There will still be a lot of bumps, but the big troughs are the problem.
It also seems smart to do some work on the road before the winter storms hit.
 Luke
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