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10b4me
Ice climber
Soon 2B Flagstaff
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Sep 26, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
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Awesome!...Cant wait to see it down here in LA!
+1
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Sep 26, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
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Eeyup, looking forward to the Costa Mesa screening.
I'm not sure why piles of pink prepubsecent ponies would be pertinent; perhaps prefigurative of a pompous prefect of preethical policing of the pompier planning to primp and preen pretentiously, were I to prognosticate.
Regardless, which of these ponies are YOU?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 26, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
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The thread was so bad they made a movie, scripted verbatim from it - gawd awful.
If they had removed everyone but the FA, Grossman as as#@&%e protagonist and Gabe "I snorted the whole kilo" as Ammon's spokesperson to let us know in a less tedious way that some "rad falls" were taken on the repeat - the film could have risen to a C/C+. Nobody else had anything to add.
I really don't understand how the FA got dragged into this by a bunch of jealous and bitter trolls who had not been on the route. Go repeat the route, if you can, and get back to us - done - goodbye. I was impressed by their story, sounded badass. They came across as genuine, smart, mature and humble. I was not impressed to see them swimming around in the mud with a bunch of self important fools.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Sep 26, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
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They came across as genuine, smart, mature and humble. I was not impressed to see them swimming around in the mud with a bunch of self important fools.
Good point.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Sep 27, 2013 - 01:06am PT
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At this point, I suspect they're much happier if getting in the mud with the trolls is the major criticism they face. =)
Amazing how things change in 1/2 decade.
( And personally, I agree with your assessment of them. =D )
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Sep 27, 2013 - 02:10am PT
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Very much enjoyed but still left scratching my head about the whole controversy....but oh yeah the Gabe thing, nothing left wondering about there!
Susan
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 27, 2013 - 03:15am PT
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Stumptown please! Hollywood theater would be a perfect venue.
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The Wolf
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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Sep 30, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
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Ammon and Kait will be at the Lafayette screening for Q & A after the screening.
Tkts are selling fast. Woohoo.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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I enjoyed the movie and thought it was pretty interesting. It is primarily interviews as there was very little climbing footage. There was a strong audible reaction from the audience during the footage of Ammon trying to find hook placements that would hold.
I thought it was a bit long, but still more interesting for me than many of the other shows during the week.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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When and where is the Orange County screening?
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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Well written, Ed, and interesting. But, for me, I give them all that. Putting up the route with a disregard for the climbing community ethic and then wanting respect from same, that's just how people are. What continues to be the crux of it for me is all this over a janky, at the way outer limits of artificial, tedious and unaesthetic climb.
Climbing is for not. And has its own made up rules and ethics. But, if you want to climb for the sake of climbing they are a necessary baggage. We don't want people placing a line of bolts top to bottom on beautiful cliffs, then what? clamping tracks to the bolts?, then an elevator to the tracks? That is easy to see as too artificial (and yet some would do it and have come close). Most of us don't want to climb bare foot without any gear or ropes, only upclimbing what we can downclimb, either. That is easy to see as too natural (and yet some purists will only climb that way).
Those guys probably did that slab in the best possible style that it could be done. But, that was still about how artificial they were going to make it (which again they probably made it about the least artificial they could have). And, it was still going to be this unaesthetic tedious climb. They did get notoriety, they did get to suffer and martyr along for their climb which they tie into same for their religious beliefs. And, maybe that's really the best they could have done. I don't know. They say there is a psychological payoff for most things we continue to do or we'd stop doing them. But, I'm no psychologist. But, I wonder if they would now be happier if they had put all that energy and intelligence (because you can't deny that they are smarter than the average climber, haha) into putting up the most esthetic route on El Cap, something akin to the Salathe, only harder, let's say? Or could the answer be no? This route, their downgrading of other routes; what did they take from climbing, and what did they give?
* Anytime you alter the rock it is in fact controversial.
* They had just as much right as anyone to put up a route on El Cap or anywhere else.
* Should an unaesthetic, on the ragged edge of what the community saw as artificial, climb been discouraged no matter who was talking about putting it up? Yes.
* Should things have ever gone past an initial discouragement of the idea through brief discussions about history and ethics? No.
* Would they have finished the climbing without all the harassment? A good question.
* If they had finished without any harassment (criminal harassment I must say) and the community yawned and moved on... if the Steve Grossmans could see a glimpse of that future; wouldn't that have wished they would have gone that route? A long forgotten unaesthetic route... like so many other no star routes in the Valley and around the world. ?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Putting up the route with a disregard for the climbing community ethic and then wanting respect from same, that's just how people are.
See how easily utter crap becomes "received wisdom?"
What continues to be the crux of it for me is all this over a janky, at the way outer limits of artificial, tedious and unaesthetic climb.
LOL... if you can really believe that "all this" really IS just over a janky (blah, blah, blah), then you really are clueless about "the story," even Ed's version of it, and human nature. But, then, that would sort of TOTALLY unfit you to be a talking head anybody should bother to take seriously.
All this talk about martyrdom and religion and so forth. Are you serious? Do you really believe the garbage you write, just because you write it?
Seriously, dude, you have NO idea what you are talking about, which just makes you into another "talking head" with exactly ZERO firsthand knowledge about which to talk. If you want to know what I think or what motivates me, just ask. I'll be honest, and that's about the best evidence you'll get upon which to form opinions about me. By contrast, if you think that your speculations make you look all "in the know" or perceptive, I'm here to tell you that you just look foolish because you're OBVIOUSLY speculating, and you are literally incorrect.
And if you don't care enough to ask, then you shouldn't care enough to post. If it doesn't matter, then why are you here? And if it does matter, then you should care enough to be accurate in what you say. Any way you cut it, your post was just another in a long chain of posts by "talking heads" that can't be bothered enough with the truth to be taken seriously (even by themselves). Yet, amazingly, they just keep talking....
I guess THAT's "just how people are."
Ahh, the delicious irony contained just within your post. It's the one pleasure that can be derived from such nonsense.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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My God, Richy and his proverbial synthesis skill are back!
I just want to know if the movie will be included in Reel Rock Tour 2014 or if you plan to come to Europe. If so, Richy should be included in the trip, at least we could teach him how to use a wood wedge + a piton and a leadhead. And of course, the difference between bathooks/batheads and natural feautes of the rock and A5 and A3+... I hope all these things are explained on the film, which would make it more interesting than the book!
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MisterE
climber
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I thought the movie was very well done, and it was great to meet Richard and his family at Upper Pines!
Erik
Edited for context
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Interesting how different people can watch the same event and see something totally different. This bit of Yosemite climbing history has fascinated me for years. I was totally psyched to see the movie and meet Richard in person. I walked out of that screening thinking "finally!... they put that one to rest". I was evidently naive.
I kinda agree with Richard on this.. when he says it's a "big pile of objective facts, and...that Jeff tried very, very hard to simply assemble the objective facts in some coherent order, and that without some "plot"..."
So why did they climb it? Simple answer seemed to be .. because it was there. Were they seeking validation? Seemed like the answer was "no".
That's what I got. Jeff presents all sides. If anything the film came across heavily focused on Ammon.. his bio, history, and his second ascent. If it needed editing, it was on that end IMO, (although the generous/superfluous(?)clips of Gabe added some eye-candy-for the ladies and the mustache worked for some comic relief.) It obviously was important to explain Ammon's history.
What I got from Ammon was that no one who was "incompetent" could possibly climb this route and, in the end, it is clear from his report that they didn't lie... which is the only validation they seem to ask for.
Both sides state that WOS is neither aesthetic nor appealing. Will it see a third ascent? Who knows? Probably not.
My (worthless) critiques of the film.. 1) Yikes.. the lighting and editing on Steve. That side of the controversy certainly needed a voice, but I wish he could have been presented in a less evil light (both figuratively and literally). and 2) I hated the title. It seems biased and isn't that memorable.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Posts dropping off this thread like the morning bizzness.
Petty moves, that ensure the proper context is never found.
Here we go again.
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WBraun
climber
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Why delete the human condition?
You both should have left everything up.
It was good ....
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jstan
climber
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This is more likely to mark a beginning than it is an end. Ammon himself suggested it might be done in a day. The question poses itself however; how much hooking will it take before the route is effectively erased? After that one wonders how many bolts on rappel will it take to make it a "free" route?
The film mentions that the FA people kept a complete log or diary. This is rather different from normal FA where "turn left at the big rock" is a typical instruction. Was that new level of data incorporated in the topo provided by the authors? If so, perhaps this new level of data caused many to expect the route was wholly artificial; the root of much later controversy.
I thought the film was interesting and well done. Whatever else follows, one can only hope it will also be interesting.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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To the tedious dude that put up the tedious route (what a surprise that a tedious and anal dude would put up a tedious and anal route and then go on and on about it tediously for decades, haha):
Seriously, dude, you have NO idea what you are talking about
All right. :)
To just the maid:
I kinda agree with Richard on this.. when he says it's a "big pile of objective facts
I liked your post. I do not think your review of the movie worthless at all. I think the reason public forums are in place are for people to post. Not for them to be told not to post, or to delete their post. But anyway, isn't the only objective thing you could say about anything related to climbing the fact that it is subjective? ;)
Both sides state that WOS is neither aesthetic nor appealing.
Well, I guess I was at least right about something in their eyes. haha
That side of the controversy certainly needed a voice, but I wish he could have been presented in a less evil light
I haven't seen the interview yet. But, I've read all the posts from Steve and Richard through the years. Both take this very personally, so neither is the right person to ask for an objective opinion or the truth, obviously. :)
I have a saying I use a lot. What would John Wayne do? :) When cops shot the 70 year old lady to death for waving around a standard kitchen butter knife... I asked myself if that's how John Wayne would have handled it? Would he be whining about my GFs cats, lol, etc. etc. Great for us in climbing that we have our own John Wayne... and his name is John, too. :) John Long is beloved for his self deprecation and playing down of his exploits. Calling Pisano Overhang "nothing more than a grunt", about the first NIAD "well, I had a lot of energy and endurance back then." When asked why he had a toprope on a 5.10 he said, "out of laziness and cowardess, not necessarily in that order." lol I love that guy, who doesn't? :) Oh yeah, Richard doesn't want to be loved. You know what, though? Everyone who has ever said that was lying. Again, obviously. This from the guy who says he just doesn't want to be called a liar and if asked we'd get the truth from him. All of us can say that the person that knows us the least is ourself. When you allow yourself to take something so personally and latch onto it so hard... you will not say or do the right things. You will not improve your situation or come off right. You cannot be objective or honest, obviously. But, you can be controversial. Which has its own psychological rewards. ;)
I'm just saying... :)
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