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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 15, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
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And she done gymnastics rings as well, not just stuff like Corde Lisse..She was a real deal
She was amazing, but there is no evidence she could do stunts like crosses or planches, routine for male gymnasts. If you have pictures of her doing these please post them, as my old friend will have won his wager and I must eat my hat.
;>)
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Aug 15, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
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That was good for a laugh considering the women I climb with do v11/13d.
Doing even a single pull up is a highly over rated exercise.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Aug 15, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
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Social intimidation, eh?
Not going to say it wasn't a struggle to develop a self identity that combined femininity and strength...but the fact that intimidation exists doesn't have to be a limiting factor.
By that logic, every woman who has found a confidence in her own self identity as a feminine athlete is WAY STRONGER than any guy, mentally at least, because of the social intimidation they've had to overcome...
So yeah, maybe statistically more men can do a one armed pull up than women...in general....but I KNOW you guys are intimidated by a hot halter top and Lycra.
Not to mention a pair of knee high, high heeled boots and a short skirt....
Or a really nice rack, rope, and rubber....shoes.
Sexism is....relevant in general as it still is remarkably prevalent..but personally I'm lucky to be in an environment where life is driven by what needs to get done, not by the gender of who did it...so the issue speaks to me, but I admit, the activism has faded from when I was younger.
Except for sex... Then gender really matters to me....;)
Cheers
LS
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Aug 20, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
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every woman who has found a confidence in her own self identity as a feminine athlete is WAY STRONGER than any guy
Wanna wrestle?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 21, 2013 - 01:05am PT
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I've learned that sometimes, when women climb, they don't think that they are 'women climbing.' They are Climbers - we are climbers. Sex exists, men and women are different, and it's always going to be tricky to dance around some sensitivities. When in doubt elevate the sport and your appreciation for those who accomplish bad ass sh#t.
Pamela, Ines and Mayan. Bad ass climbers.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 21, 2013 - 01:10am PT
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Wanna wrestle?
One thing that I really like about climbing is it has more to do about how hard you work, versus what gifts you were born with. All my childhood growing up I wanted to play basketball and volleyball, just like my 6'3" dad. I'm short, and those doors closed quickly.
I ran cross country and did a bit of wrestling. My high school mile time would have put me in the top 10 for women's state, yet didn't get me a varsity letter. Rolling in Jiu Jitsu off the couch with talented female purple belts, I could base out and power through armbars, triangles... yeah. Sometimes it helps to be built like a chimp - and be a dude.
I learned years ago that Race doesn't define people - neither does sex. Relax, people... go Emcee and event once. It's OK to bomb, sh#t happens.
edit -
every woman who has found a confidence in her own self identity as a feminine athlete is WAY STRONGER than any guy I was 7 seconds off the Women's California championship in the Mile when I was 15 years old - maybe the field had an identity crisis?
http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/California/
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 21, 2013 - 01:39am PT
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Another thing about any sport is how LONG you'll stay
La Dura Dura, 15C 2013
Chablanke, V11 in 2010
I'd say the results are mixed.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Aug 21, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
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ahhh...I forget with all the strong people here...its all about physical manifestations of strength, and if that physical manifestation isn't the highest or best among All The People, it must mean there is no strength.
Listening to everyone helps me realize that I really have crafted in my immediate life, a world where gender is less pertinent than what is actually happening (except for sex! ;). One of the many reasons that competitions, etc don't really call to me.
Tioga, hope you get it all figured out. I still haven't, but I can live with that...part of being a weak person - my self identity aside.
Sexism is out there and very present, and for me, I battle against it in the only way I can...my own.
And I'll NEVER hesitate to use the point that my 'girlie hands' are perfect for the 'tight hands' leads. After all, a girl's gotta go for what she wants...so let a girl go get what she wants...sheesh!
As far a standing the test of time, don't statistics show that on a whole, women tend to outlive men?
Mwahahaha...
Cheers
LS
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 21, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
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I think climber women are hot... Jus sayin'
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 21, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
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Here's a modern lady who performs one-armed giant swings!
Nice video. I enjoyed it. I suspect she might be able to do a few one arm pull-ups from the way she climbed the rope. She also did a back lever, unusual for a female. Those are not "giant swings" in the formal gymnastics sense; one of the hardest part of the OAGS is simply hanging on when you reach the bottom of the swing. (Notice she rotates from the shoulder and not the extended arm.) That is not an issue with the wrist straps she wore. Depending on one's weight and height even a simple giant swing on the high bar generates hundreds of pounds of force, requiring a really strong grip. I never did the one arm variety and can't imagine the strength that takes.
Still no female front lever or cross or planche.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 22, 2013 - 11:36am PT
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Good planche! First time I've seen a female doing that. rgold may win his bet yet! Your comments about center of gravity are of course correct. Women CrossFit athletes frequently do lots of muscle-ups on the rings. I hope they never try crosses. Shoulders are delicate.
I used to do giant swings on the still rings and they are a little different from those on the horizontal bar.
Have you ever heard of a Russian gymnast named Blanche Rosanna? She is mentioned in Willoughby's book, Super Athletes.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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Dingus is always better at saying it.
(Proverbial "What he said.")
edit - I know you're an MMA fan so here's a video of Ronda Rousey training with Nick Diaz (top 5 170-pounder) and his buddy (dude who gets chucked around like a medicine ball).
[Click to View YouTube Video]
skip to 4:15
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 22, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
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so these gymnastics elements aren't really strength benchmarks
Actually they are. For me at 6'2" and 180 lbs, the various levers were excellent benchmarks. Front Lever
Gymnasts now are shorter and more muscular than they were in my day, back in the 1950s. The top US male gymnast then was 6'1"
When I trained for the competitive rope climb I would start a session with ten consecutive, non-kipped muscle-ups. But my shoulders are a mess now and I don't try even one. I cringe when I see young women doing muscle-ups on the rings at CrossFit. And I wonder what sort of physical condition those circus performers who did all those shoulder swings like Leitzel are (or were) in later in life. Leitzel died early.
Edit: video above - what small children can do has little bearing on adult performances. Her straddle is too wide to count as a FL. But, impressive little tyke. Kind of like these tiny girls who boulder V10+.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
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Then, we'd have to bring in powerlifters and all other athletes and collect benchmarks from every sport.
That's actually a great benchmark, for strength. There's weight classes there, too. It's one of the most base human functions - pick something up (deadlift, squat) and lift it over your head (military press). Or all at once (olympic lifting). That, running, fighting... probably the most basic things humans have evolved to accomplish for strength, i.e. the fibers we were evolved to improve upon for survival. Or something.
Adam Ondra just recently did his first one-arm pull-up. You can swing a cat in a gym and find a high-schooler who can do it. That means he is not very 'strong' as compared to his peers - yet he obviously has fantastic technique. So a technique heavy sport, he can perform very well, much like several women climbing very near the top grades for men.
Sometimes sex can play a big role, some times it doesn't. That isn't something anybody 'owns,' it's just a fact of science. I can recruit a lot more power in my shoulders than many women, it doesn't mean I can punch harder/throw a baseball faster.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 22, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
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I haven't heard of Blanche Rosanna
Could be Rassana or something like that. I haven't been able to track this mysterious performer down, if she even exists.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 22, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
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Adam Ondra just recently did his first one-arm pull-up. You can swing a cat in a gym and find a high-schooler who can do it. That means he is not very 'strong' as compared to his peers - yet he obviously has fantastic technique. So a technique heavy sport, he can perform very well, much like several women climbing very near the top grades for men.
Ondra's inability to do a 1-arm pullup means that he is not "strong" as measured in the ability to 1-arm pullups. It doesn't mean at all that he is not "strong" as it relates in the ability to do hard rock climbs (almost entirely the ability to hang onto very small holds).
Likewise, I may guess that Ondra is not "strong" in bench pressing--that's only slightly less relevant to climbing than 1-arm pullups.
Hard climbing is not particularly technique dependent--I'd compare it to something like an 100m sprint. I suppose there's some technique involved, but if you think the difference between you and Bolt is that he has better technique--well, you're simply wrong.
Of course all hard climbers have excellent technique--they're generally people who started climbing young in life and/or have been climbing a long time. But lots of people who climb sorta hard but not world class also have excellent technique.
Some of you have a hard time understanding this, so I'll dumb it down as much as I can. Go to a rock gym. Find a really hard boulder problem. See if you can hang onto the holds, or if you can, if you can move between them. Feel free to try it as many times as you like, experimenting with whatever "technique," you'd like.
You will quickly perceive that you just can't hang the holds (or do anything other than hang on for dear life, depending on your strength).
I'm absolutely sure Sasha D'G can hang onto tiny holds. Maybe she has some special technique that allows her to do that?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
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I'm not saying he isn't strong at all - just not as much as many others. Obviously he has an incredible grip strength and strength-to-weight ratio, just like sasha etc.
Different body types, different muscles - but Ondra would look silly compared to Chris in many "strong man" tests of strength like we are describing here.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Aug 22, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
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If I were stronger...like those hawt climber women that have been posted up here...
I'd be WAY happier in my life.
Then again, I'd be WAY happier in my life if I got to climb more too.
I wonder if there's a correlation to better sex once a person can do a certain amount of one-armed pull ups or planches...
Haha, I could SO see that date.
"must be able to do x number of one armed pull ups to ride"
HAHAHAHA
Cheers
LS
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 22, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
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I think Ondra is relatively tall and has longish arms. Probably makes it harder for him to do one-arms (and benchpresses for that matter).
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