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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 13, 2013 - 01:24am PT
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But, I bet back in the 50s you guys would all have a problem with them wanting to be in the comp in the first place, right?
"Comps" , of course, didn't exist then and the thought of organizing them would have been met with considerable disdain. I don't recall any outright sexism, but there were very few female climbers at that time. I do recall hearing that Jan and Herb Conn, for example, were equal in ability.
Ask an old Gunks climber about Barbara Devine and her performances in the 1980s.
Don't cast your net so far back beyond your time.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2013 - 02:20am PT
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John, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. I think you misinterpreted that particular phrase out of context, as I was being facetious that some people on here calling this a first world problem would deny sexism now, but would probably be a part of the people that would deny it back then. That's what I really celebrate, actually, that women have had a legitimate role since the beginning, but their portrayal at this comp diminishes that.
My point with Colette was that she was part of the sexism, even most of it in the clip I analyzed, likely without knowing it. We (women) can easily fall into it - when at a loss for words, small talk is always a comment on a girl's looks. It's socially acceptable, but in this particular arena, it shouldn't be - and, again, the way to stop it is to have a conversation and see it for what it is.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Aug 13, 2013 - 08:14am PT
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.... I'm not seeing a problem. Me likely booty shortz
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Aug 13, 2013 - 09:36am PT
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Some ladies, unfortunately, choose to be a part of "sexism in climbing" by objectifying themselves and dressing certain way to climbing activities...I'm talking about "very short shorts" and very tight clothes... (This is a result of media brainwash pressuring them to look certain way.) I understand that people want to look nice when they're out and about, but some outfits just seem to serve purpose other than climbing convenience making the place (climbing gym or boulder area) look like some kind of meat market speed dating joint...
It's their choice to do that, not yours. The judgement in your post is incredibly hypocritical. Empowerment means choice,and then you belittle the choice.I know some of the girls you're refering to and all of them are good people. Just because they don't make the same choice you would, doesnt make their choice less valid.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Aug 13, 2013 - 11:34am PT
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You are complaining about the treatment of women in a climbing competition... held in Utah of all places. Ironically, the vast majority of female climbers I know from Utah are strong, confident, successful, and treated like people... while the rest of the female population is crushed under blatant sexism. But yeah, the problem is clearly how women are treated during climbing competitions... those evil men making them wear those tight shorts and skimpy tops. pfft.
What about the objectification of men in cycling?
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Deekaid
climber
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Aug 13, 2013 - 11:40am PT
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sex sells.
edit ; that is a crack up.they gotta be doing that on purpose
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2013 - 11:51am PT
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OMG, my EYES.
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OR
Trad climber
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Aug 13, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
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This thread is awful me thinks....and so was the silly comp.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 13, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
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I've mentioned this before, but I would love to see a direct competition involving both genders on the horizontal bar in gymnastics. Performances on the individual parallel bar and traditional high bar are practically identical. Men would probably be competitive on the balance beam as well.
;>)
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 13, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
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I've mentioned this before, but I would love to see a direct competition involving both genders on the horizontal bar in gymnastics. Performances on the individual parallel bar and traditional high bar are practically identical. Men would probably be competitive on the balance beam as well.
It defies common sense to think that men and women would be nearly equal in gymnastics--the men and women's bodies don't look much alike physically, so how could they perform nearly identically? That would presume that athletic performance is somehow independent of their body-types--just doesn't make sense.
In certain types of climbing women can do about as well as men or perhaps better, but if any of you think that women are approximately equal to men at a bouldering type comp that would require long reaches and dynos, ur smoking something that may get you put in jail for a long time in Utah. Trust me I've spent a lot of time at gyms with top-level climbers (I live in Boulder)--there are super women climbers, but NO WAY are the top women climbers comparable to the top men climbers.
I know the best (or even just pretty good) female climbers would kick my ass in any style of climbing, I'm not trying to personalize of this, but I see a lot of this "women should compete with men" stuff as PC run amok.
If it actually happened, it would be lame as crap because the course setters would probably set women friendly courses (small crimpers close together) that the women actually may beat the men on, but that would lead to comps that are lamer than they already are.
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Baggins
Boulder climber
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Aug 13, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
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There are many instances of women leading the field in the world of climbing. Lynn Hill on the nose - and of the 3 free ascents this has seen, 2 are from women. Beth rodden's unrepeated Meltdown I guess should be mentioned in that context too. Its a question of style - more or less, how are we going to be judging climbers?
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Aug 13, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
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That video Tioga posted is hilarious.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 13, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
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There are many instances of women leading the field in the world of climbing. Lynn Hill on the nose - and of the 3 free ascents this has seen, 2 are from women. Beth rodden's unrepeated Meltdown I guess should be mentioned in that context too. Its a question of style - more or less, how are we going to be judging climbers?
The "many instances" you refer to is actually one thing: women with tiny fingers can climb at least some thin cracks that most men cannnot. (As I recall from reading Lynn Hill's bio, John Long picked out the Nose as a worthy project for Lynn to free because he knew she'd be able to fit her tiny fingers into the crack in the "Great Roof" or whatever it is, that man can't).
Meltdown is also a thin crack where Beth (a very petite lady) could put her fingers in but almost no guys can.
In addition to tiny cracks, I can imagine that women may hold on their own on tiny holds, the sort of holds where the little Japanese girl is kicking ass (obviously that's a huge part of difficult climbing, so I'm not trying to take anything away from women).
But here is the deal: the psicobloc had a huge dyno at the end; in bouldering comps, huge dynos are kind of the name of the game. There is NO WAY women can compete equally with men at that style of climbing.
If you want to set up a bouldeing competition that just goes up tiny holds and doesn't have big moves, have fun, but I don't think it's going to get much traction.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Aug 13, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
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i kept hoping i'd be outraged so that at least i wouldn't be bored.
no such luck.
amateur hour for sure. but sexist?
you can chalk up another vote to file this in the first world problem dossier.
only thing that video reinforces is that climbing as couch potato entertainment will never hit the big time. they've got people unexpectedly dropping into water from +30' up and it's still like watching paint dry.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Aug 13, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
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. . . so how could they perform nearly identically?
There was a pro gymnastics meet on TV back a few months and the women competed on the elevated single parallel bar, while the men competed on the traditional high bar. Many if not most of the moves were practically identical. There are a few strength moves the men might better perform, like the one-arm giant, but most of the stunts are highly dynamic (and do not require a long reach, like in climbing). On the other hand, Lillian Leitzel, the world's greatest circus performer back in the 1920s, did full one-arm swings on a single ring, over and over. She was under 5 feet and weighed less than a hundred pounds.
Edit: On the other hand I speculate that women will never be able to compete with men on the still rings, where enormous bodyweight strength is required. However, a prominent and highly respected colleague on this site has assured me that they will and that he will supply us with visual proof.
As to women vs men in climbing prowess, I have no opinion.
;>)
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Deekaid
climber
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Aug 13, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
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tioga video is just more mass media making men look dumb.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Aug 13, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
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It is part of the feminazi agenda.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 14, 2013 - 02:06am PT
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The first Psicobloc competition in Bilbao Spain...anyone recall the women who competed in that?
Funny, I heard comments from several women in attendance at the Utah Olympic Park that only in Utah would both women and men be so fully clothed. Interesting that men can't climb shirtless in Momentum's gym in Utah. And, the women have to cover up as well.
The PA system was so terrible, if you were in attendance, you couldn't hear any of the commentators anyhow...but...even so, I think Colette's comment on the women competitors may have been related to the number of folks that showed up for the qualifying round.
I didn't find the comp sexist myself. Given the amount of female horsepower here I'm not sure the organizer(s) would have survived had there been at least a local perception of such. But, that's just my opinion based in no small part on how strong the "ladies club" is.
The men's route was purportedly a fair bit harder. I was a bit annoyed at how long it took to change the wall over, but, thought it was interesting how they modified the hold size and spread.
I'd have rather gone sooner than later. The water was cold. The air temp was fairly warm when the sun was up, which, was while the women competed. When the sun when down, it got chilly. I really hadn't heard there was ever a plan to cut the women's competition down, at least not at the finals. Maybe they limited the qualifiers. Dunno. Lynn competed prior to the finals. Not sure how she did, but, I think they only took a couple of men and women from the qualifying rounds into the semi's, and, then to the finals. Maybe she didn't make the cut?
There was a fair rumor that some of the competitors didn't like the long fall into the water, some hitting hard the previous day (male climber). The woman that took second (Delaney Miller), for instance, didn't need to top out the wall again, which, given how little rest they got between burns was a tactical error. She said, post comp, "The fall did get less intimidating as the comp went on, but it was definitely not something I ever was truly comfortable with." She down climbed the backside instead of jumping in the second time she topped out the wall. Sasha jumped off with no perceptible fear of the drop...
Anyhoo, fun to watch....
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Aug 14, 2013 - 03:31am PT
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All right! It's climbing related!
I bet this was all planned. The rigging of the comp of course. You should talk to sharma, he has all the answers.
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John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:24am PT
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making the place (climbing gym or boulder area) look like some kind of meat market speed dating joint...
I had a similar thought walking past a large group of young boulderers at Gate Buttress last night :-)
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