Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1961 - 1980 of total 2255 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
maverick01

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
Peter - should we ask for volunteers on Facebook? Do you need any gear?

1. Water purification tablets, water filter straws, micro filters, etc.
2. Compass, GPS (Inyo wilderness)
3. Trail tape, marker
4. Powerbars, MREs, Beverage pkgs, emergency food, etc.
5. Hex heater, stoves, etc.
6. Fire starters (wp matches, mag, etc.)
7. Binoculars
8. Tent, Bivy, Ponchos, etc.
9. Bear Cans
10. Water Bottles, camelbacks, etc.
11. Radios
12. Backpacks, dry sacks, etc.
13. Survival knifes
14. Medical/first aid kits


Yes, use any media you can, forums have slowed down for the season. Anyone
volunteering needs to have backpacking experience, and they should already
have a lot of those basic items, thanks for you offer.
My main concern besides getting plenty of searchers is this system moving in later
this week, not the strength of it, but it may lay enough snow for the NFS and NPS to
close roads which they would usually do not do this early, but because of the gov
shutdown there will be no one to plough the roads if needed. Without the NF and NPS
sites being up it will be hard to get an update of the road conditions unless locals
check on the roads for us.
Let's hope for a warming trend starting this coming weekend and lasting through the
following one.
maverick01

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 06:48pm PT

For those who have inquired about the search, and those who
may be considering it, please let me stress that if there is
a weather system due in before, during, or within 2 days of
our planned exit, the search will be called off. Let me strongly
emphasis again that safety here is my top priority, and I do
not intend to expose folks to any additional risks beyond the
ones already associated with this endeavor.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Oct 7, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
The areas that need to be searched are beyond just "backpacker experience."
Technical climbing experience should be there too, as the terrain is treacherous.

Maverick01, be careful with what you are doing....this kind of terrain is not for MOST people.
Supermama

Social climber
pa
Oct 7, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
Maverick01...I will post the information...Please let me know if anything changes so I can repost changes if necessary.

Tiffany...do you want his on facebook?

Please be careful!

Supermama
Supermama

Social climber
pa
Oct 7, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Maverick01 and Tiffany...I think we should make a flyer for search party volunteers. I have taken the information I have from Maverick, but need more details:

When: time of arrival

Where: Physical meeting place

Do you want to have a brief meeting with all of the volunteers first? Did you contact Dan Watson to let him know? He may have a few suggestions. I can type something up and send it to both of you to see what you think.

May I add Cragman's climbing criteria as well? People need to know what they are up against.

Please let me know if you want me to work on this.


Supermama
maverick01

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
Cragman wrote:

The areas that need to be searched are beyond just "backpacker
experience." Technical climbing experience should be there too,
as the terrain is treacherous.

Maverick01, be careful with what you are doing....this kind of
terrain is not for MOST people.

Yes, understand your concern Cragman, which is why I am requesting
for searchers to include their experience levels. If all we get is
folks in the level 2-3 range, then they will search in such areas
accordingly, and not be placed or asked to do anything above their
experience levels.

Thanks,
Mav
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Oct 7, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
Supermama....with all due respect, you're not helping by trying to round up volunteers to search.

What you are doing is inviting trouble...as I stated above, this type of terrain is NOT for most people. Just because someone has a heart for the situation, does not mean they are qualified.

I do not know who Maverick01 is, or whether he is qualified as well.

Putting out a general call to "backpackers" will have dire consequences. My advice is to stick to what you are qualified for, and please do not try to micro-manage a search from PA.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
What is the level 2-3 range? Never heard of that one unless you are referring to 2nd-3rd class terrain.

Thank you Cragman for trying to talk some sense into these folks.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
While it is true that I have never been to Mammoth Lakes, there are scenarios (that have been discussed) in which Matt had an accident in more low laying areas, before he ever reached mountain heights. It seems like a hundred volunteers covering meadows etc wouldn't be enough to cover possible areas.

Since Maverick is requiring volunteers to inform him of their experience and abilities beforehand, he can assign them to the appropriate area based on that.

That sounds safe enough to me.

I think it is admirable that Maverick is gathering volunteers, granted at different levels, and that they will conduct a last search before the winter (assuming the weather cooperates.)

It would be wonderful to get closure on the mystery of Matt's disappearance.

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
Leave your "trail tape" at home . . . the last thing the Sierra need is more human impact.
Gene

climber
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
That sounds safe enough to me.

My respectful advice is to be careful. Be very careful in the Ritter Range and even its approaches this time of year. The mountains can be unforgiving. We all know that.

Wishing all touched by Matt the best,

g
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
pacarockhound, et al....you all need to understand that the trailed areas within the search area are used ALL summer VERY heavily by hundreds, if not thousands of backpackers.

These are NOT areas that need searching.

The areas in question are technical ground. Furthermore, sending people into harm's way without experience level, communication capability, etc., is simply a fool's venture.

I'll say this again....stick to what you know...leave the rest to those that do.

Yes, EVERYONE wants closure....but keep this in mind...we are searching for a deceased subject. ANYONE going into the backcountry is putting themselves at risk. The areas that need to be searched, need QUALIFIED personnel to do that.

Just because you want to help, and are perhaps getting impatient, does not mean even one INJURY, let alone someone's life, is worth risking.

EDIT: Just because some "scenario" has been "discussed" on this thread, much of it is utter bullsh#t. If you lived in the mountains, you might know that.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Oct 7, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
I follow High Sierra Topix and it seems to me Peter, aka, Maverick, has a good handle on SAR and Ritter Range environs. His posts on the search for Matt make a lot of sense. Obviously, the #1 priority is not contributing to a situation that adds additional victims.

The fact is, there's not one solid clue as to Matt's specific destination, or whether he even reached it. Matt may have experienced an accident/incident on low/moderate terrain on the approach or descent. People with cross-country experience could be just as useful as experienced climbers.

This assumes everyone is using SAR protocol of communication, etc,.

Cragman, I understand your points. I'm only suggesting people with strong backcountry skills who are not technical climbers could search off-trail/approach/descent areas.




kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
I will butt in, huge apologies in advance but I have to speak up.

Organizing people by their self-assessed ability, compiling equipment lists, etc. is futile at best and sets the stage for grim consequences at worst. Anyone needing to answer those questions for an "organizer" or for themselves is not qualified by default. (I've done a lot of backpacking, a little climbing, and know the Sierras well. I also know that I'm completely unqualified for the task). Posting to other websites is great. Once aware of the situation, anyone with the ability and heart to volunteer (like Cragman and everyone else who's put in effort) will come forward without being asked.

Maverick and Supermama, be aware that you assume legal liability by merely organizing this activity. It sounds borderline ridiculous but sadly, it's the times we all live in. Anyone involved is exposed; well-meaning people have been sued after a "volunteer" effort ended badly. Piles of waivers won't help. Cragman's comment may be due to feeling a legal and an ethical burden would be forced on him.

A search team of climbers trusts their lives to other team members- in the most literal sense. That trust is built over months and years...and not with total strangers who self-assessed their abilities online.

There also seems to a lack of understanding of how truly rugged and unforgiving the terrain is. Totally understandable from 2500 miles away if you've never been to the Sierras, and presumably some of what appealed to Matt. Even though he's probably within 15 miles of a major ski resort, it's not like a missing hiker in a state park on the East Coast.

Everyone's doing a great job keeping the search going, through their heart and skills. But in my humble opinion, it's best to focus our energies on our individual expertise. If anyone needs manpower, ideas, or information they will surely request it.

Edit: I live in the suburban fringe of LA and go mountain biking on the local trails. Every few weeks, I come across people with high-end equipment who are totally lost. The Sierras aren't the place to send anyone lacking basic orienteering skills. Who's going to assess their abilities before sending them into the back country?

@Crankster- Good comments above...will there be a test of "SAR protocol"? I would fail the test.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Oct 7, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
kenish is wise....
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Oct 8, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
Cragman, I understand your points. I'm only suggesting people with strong backcountry skills who are not technical climbers could search off-trail/approach/descent areas.


Crankster, This was my thinking also.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Oct 8, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
off-trail/approach/descent areas.
The Minarets area is rather different than many Sierra Nevada peak groups. It's true that in the Minarets you can get into very dangerous terrain almost before you know it (voice of experience). I believe this is what happened to Matt. Most of the approaches and descents require experience and a good deal of caution.

Dean's earlier reconnaissance and excellent photos show how quickly "wandering about" could lead to trouble.

However, Steve Fossett's air crash was found in relatively easy terrain in the Minarets region (Northeast side of Volcanic Ridge) after 13 months.
There is a lot of easy to moderate ground in the Minarets / Ritter area that could be checked.
I hesitate to use the term "search" as that entails organization rather than ad hoc looking around. Much of that ground does get significant travel in the summer months, some of those areas not so much.

Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, unofficial "organized" searching is fraught with personal and legal risk and is best not done. There is nothing to be gained by anyone putting themselves in physical or legal jeopardy.
Supermama

Social climber
pa
Oct 8, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
Kenish, Cragman et al.

Point taken...I will stick to what I know best and butt out. Not trying to micromanage from Pa, just a colleague offering to help. Just to remind you, I did recommend Dan Watson and SAR be contacted. I have not posted or promoted this search in any way.

Hopefully, Matt's family will understand. This has to be difficult for them to read. My deepest sympathy goes out to them. Matt will be greatly missed by his family at NASD.

Supermama
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 8, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
I always liked the commercial with the eTrade baby saying, that's like "the odds of getting attacked by a polar bear and regular bear on the same day".

Much as I would like traces of Matt to be found, it's going to happen by chance at some completely unknown time in the future.



Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Oct 8, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
zB = wise one.
Messages 1961 - 1980 of total 2255 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews