Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area


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Boulder climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 09:24pm PT

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 12, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
SplitPants, yes, and it's also good to have a written-out list or table/sreadsheet of routes and locations (to complement the map, as map legend changes, also getting crowded, and one has to mouse over for info--in a list/table info would be upfront) that he had visited and ones that he might have taken that night, in some kind of approximate order of how likely he'd decide to go there (some suggestions were that he would want certain route/place) + reasons why, as additional comment... right now it's all over the place, yes.

Just an idea: a table/spreadsheet/list in a format easier to read with assumptions about his route/place he went to visit:
Location (name, coords)--Status: (visited/likely to visit/unknown, etc)--Paths from campground to this location--Reasons why this location is a likely area--Ride needed for this location?--Approx. length of trip/round trip (from Shady Rest)--Difficulty level--Terrain/does search require special skills/equipment?--Search status (searched/partially searched/not searched). And locations can be ordered/ranked in order of roughly approx. likelihood (this is the hardest part). Let's cross fingers a piece of info from Morales will shrink the area...

Social climber
Hoboken, NJ by way of Orange County, CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
SplitPants - IMHO, that's an excellent suggestion. I can understand why the boots-on-the-ground people are getting impatient with the lack of solid information. I can also understand that many, many people care deeply for Matthew, although they've never met him and want somehow to help, even if they aren't experienced climbers.

Speaking for myself, I'm wishing that I spent the years I often skied at Mammoth and June - beginning in 1975 would have given me the skills to help find Matt.

Social climber
Hoboken, NJ by way of Orange County, CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
And Cragman - deeply touched by the passion and extraordinary commitment you have for this case and hoping all these efforts will lead to finding Matt sooner rather than later.

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 12, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Tiffany said:
For what it's worth, I did talk to the Bethlehem police and I need to head into the station to sign a declaration making Matt's disappearance official in his hometown; something we've yet to do. They told me over the phone they should be able to help in obtaining some of the records we're after.

I believe that least three sources of info (maybe more) are being pursued that may help us figure out where Matt went on July 17th:
-Attempts by Detective Hornbeck (and maybe potentially by the Bethlehem police to get access to Matt's email accounts.
-Attempts by Detective Hornbeck to interview the Morales family.
-Attempts by SplitPants (and Ron or Tiffany?) to get info from the Mammoth Library network Admin person regarding what websites and pages Matt might have accessed, especially on July 16th.

I hope that at least some of these attempts will get some useful info soon, to help narrow things down so those boots have a better chance to be on the right piece of ground...

Trad climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
cragman... your such a curmudgeon. that's why we love you so...

Sep 13, 2013 - 02:49am PT
There is NO beauty in social media

Social climber
Dunwoody, GA
Sep 13, 2013 - 05:24am PT
Love the ideas about the map. I can easily change those things now that I'm using mapsengine.

Trad climber
Sep 13, 2013 - 06:32am PT
I thought this thread WAS the thread for conjecture and open discussion.

There's bound to be a lot of repeats, Its the nature of the beast as people discover this tragedy and chime in. They should not be chastised for giving their perspective. Sure, the thread has been getting long in the tooth, but it provides a historical reference of the process. For those of us that keep up with it, I pick out the relevant "facts" and forward them to those that keep a running list for reference (thanks Splitpants!). A thread to discuss just the facts would be pretty boring and read like the back end of a wiki, once its been determined as a fact it gets posted.

I don't think the ST forum provides a vehicle for setting up threads that can be kept on subject with heavy moderation. I've been on some forums where posts are moved around based on their relevance to the thread's topic. That's what would be needed and I've never seen that here, nor would anyone like it. There will always be drift.

None the less, as SplitPants suggests, I think a separate forum thread dedicated to hard target searches (like the fine work of Cragman, etal) would help to differentiate that work from the open discussion of possibilities that should be encouraged here. I can't think of another line of investigation that has generated enough information to warrant its own thread.

Just my dos centavos

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 13, 2013 - 07:57am PT
Matt's Summitpost account is showing recent activity.

I'm a web application programmer and pretty experienced in the nitty-gritty of code & web app databases. Most web software would not say that a user account has recent activity simply from admins poking around; any app that did would be pretty stupidly programmed.

Add to that, the activity was for Sept 11. Let's assume that admins did poke around in the account, and that the app was stupidly programmed to record that as "activity". Does it make sense that the admins poked around yesterday?

Stzzo, I believe the last activity date on summitpost came from admin posting a note to his account (the publicly viewable note in bold text "A few words:...")--done in response to multiple inquiries, probably. That note was likely posted via the same mechanism the user would post an introduction to their account, so it ended up updating the last activity time.

Social climber
Carson City
Sep 13, 2013 - 08:06am PT
As Cragman says, let's get back to the facts and work from there.

The summitpost activity is consistent with administrative activity. I don't see the need to pursue that issue.

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 13, 2013 - 08:11am PT
I would love to hear an opinion of a web dev (Stzzo?) though on if the server log containing requests from library IP (for the 16th)--the log that would contain http requests for specific files--would be still stored (keep in mind most of these sites also do credit card payment processing and have security set up accordingly). If you're reading this thread, what are your thoughts?

To address your other point:
A poster on mountain project (brass monkey) who's from the Philly area, is a teacher, drives a Subaru, doing a trip to CA at the same time as Matt, and talking about going to the Tetons.
A one-time poster "MG13" who appears on the day Matt disappears, on a thread which Matt previously posted on, asking about the tetons.

If a person decided to stage disappearance, they'd not be likely to use info that could be linked to them, such as post about teacher occupation (brass monkey), use the same abbreviation as real name (MG13), etc.

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Sep 13, 2013 - 08:20am PT
I logged on to Matts SuperTopo account on the 11th. The admins reset his password for me and I was checking something. ~ Ron
James Wilcox

Trad climber
Goleta/Virginia Lakes
Sep 13, 2013 - 10:05am PT
Getting three, four, five different threads going, and keep bumping to the front page will not win you friends.
Here's the reality of the situation. You have very few known facts. Matt was staying at Shady Rest, his car was getting fixed, and he bought something at Rite Aid.
The logical assumptions based on Matt's missing gear is a day hike with snow/ice on the agenda. Most likely out of Agnew since he had no transportation(that we know of).

You window of opportunity in accessing the most likely areas he may have ventured to is closing fast. And once it closes your done for the next eight months. If we get a decent winter getting 15-20 feet of snow is not uncommon. We've had two sub par winters in a row, so areas that typically hold snow are free. For now. But if we start having regular snow levels some spots, spots that may hold evidence of Matt could stay buried, even during the summer.

I'm not sure of all the pros and cons, if Cragman decides to respond to this, great. But offering a decent reward may get people who live on the Eastside willing to venture back there. Even that's a long shot. Fossett crashed a plane, started a small fire, and had a $10,000 reward and it still took a year and luck to come across him.

I'm in the process of getting our cabin ready for winter here at VGL. That'll consume the next few weeks, than I'll head in myself for a few days.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 13, 2013 - 10:10am PT
Agreed James. There is but ONE and only ONE clue thus far, and that is a conversation between Matt and the Morales person. Any info gleamed from that could be a possible help. Otherwise, there is still about 350 sq miles of turf that must be inspected three feet at a time. We are now looking for "signs" of remains, as small as can be...

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Sep 13, 2013 - 02:16pm PT
I would make the assumption that Mr. Greene was not wandering aimlessly through 350 sq. miles of wilderness (though it is a possibility, e.g. if he had a stroke - BTW what is his medical history and that of his family?).

He most likely had a destination in mind. My suggestion is that 3-4 likely ones be chosen and the trails heading there be carefully searched. At this point I'd be looking for a backpack (frame at least) or ice axe, crampons which it was indicated above he was likely carrying.


Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 13, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
^Z Brown....exactly what Cragman and other volunteers have been doing, based on their expertise of the backcountry, climbing, and asking "What would Matt do?". It's been detailed several times in this thread, but I understand why you didn't read through it.

The past several posts bring up several good points...Fossett's very deep pockets and political clout weren't enough to get results. A hiker came across the scene by random chance. The search for Randy Morgenson also used SAR experts searching high-probability areas. They were within a few hundred feet of him several times and he wasn't spotted. In both those cases, plus Larry Conn's, the "first find" was an item (gear, aircraft parts) and it sometimes took a surprising amount of additional searching to find the person. A formidable task even when the itinerary and "place last seen" are more definite than Matt's.

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Sep 13, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
This seems a little strange even to me, but if somebody is looking for metal could a longer range metal detector be of any use?

Such a beast exists, though I can't look into it right now.



Social climber
Northampton, PA
Sep 13, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
Lol...that thing is nothing more than a calculator glued to a radio. It's the biggest scam on the Internet. -Ron.

Real metal detectors will "detect" everything in the ground, except what we need in this case.

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 13, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
Rock mandala group creation at Escondido Arts Partnership Gallery outd...
Rock mandala group creation at Escondido Arts Partnership Gallery outdoors sat, sept 14, 7PM. For finding Matt Greene. Escondido CA, Grand & Juniper. Rocks from the east and west, as well as whatever you bring.
Credit: pacarockhound
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