risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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jghedge

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
"Today the NSA director admitted that they lied. Has anyone caught Snowden in a lie yet? "


Hahahaha - you guys got suckered into believing in the most embarrassing fake scandal in recent US history.


k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Oct 3, 2013 - 08:11am PT
What would you say is the single most shocking revelation that Snowden has leaked and why?

(GG): The general revelation that the objective of the NSA is literally the elimination of global privacy: ensuring that every form of human electronic communication - not just those of The Terrorists - is collected, stored, analyzed and monitored.

The NSA has so radically misled everyone for so long about its true purpose that revealing its actual institutional function was shocking to many, many people, and is the key context for understanding these other specific revelations.
nah000

climber
canuckistan
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2013 - 09:36am PT
regarding this "fake scandal" jhedge keeps referring to:

it's good to know that if the nsa had started a secret physical mail tracking and logging database, [making sure that every time you sent a christmas package to aunt betty, the nsa would know and indefinitely keep it on file that you had sent a package of 11" X 13" X 6"H to Mrs. Beatrice Arbuckle of Springfield, USA on Dec. 20, 1984] that this too would have its defenders. /s

'cause in case there are those who haven't put two and two together, yet, the above isn't an exaggerated metaphor. rather, it is exactly equivalent to the minimum of what has been set up. the only difference between the above example and existing reality is one is physical and the other is electronic.

a few of the people on this thread make me wonder if people are naive, confused about how technology and the internet work, just so afraid that they are now demanding big brother, or whether they are paid government shills.

'cause regarding the latter, there are a few of you, who if you aren't being paid, should really look into how you might request a paycheque from uncle sam inc.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:06am PT
Anxiety and fear are the primary motivations for surrendering liberty.

Many anxieties and fears are valid, like, for example, "I don't want to starve to death." (so I work for a living)

Many anxieties and fears lead to faulty conclusions though. "I don't want to die in a terrorist attack." (so we go along with or even support wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and unlimited surveillance of civilians in peace time)

DMT
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:24am PT
wonder what the motivation is for cheering its occurance
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 4, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Exaggerated risks

"It might be helpful to consider something called the banana equivalent dose (BED). This is a term used in physics to measure the amount of radiation emitted by a banana. It is a number popular with people who think the dangers of radiation are exaggerated, and who use it to make the point that almost everything is radioactive. A dental x-ray has a BED of 50; serious radiation poisoning takes a BED of 20m; sleeping next to someone for one night has a BED of 0.5 and living within 50 miles of a nuclear power plant for a year has a BED of 0.9.

Since 9/11, 53 people have been killed by terrorists in the UK. Every one of those deaths is tragic. So is every one of the 26,805 deaths to have occurred on Britain's roads between 2002 and 2012 inclusive, an average of 6.67 deaths a day. Let's call that the SDRD, standard daily road deaths. The terrorist toll for 12 years comes to 0.0121 SDRD. This means that 12 years of terrorism has killed as many people in the UK as eight days on our roads.

The security establishment will immediately reply that this figure leaves out deaths of terrorism victims abroad and the lives saved by its secret actions, none of which can be made known without jeopardising current and future operations.

Is that enough of a justification for the scale and extent of what is happening to our privacy? Is the current supervisory regime which involves senior judges inspecting GCHQ's actions, "within the circle of secrecy", and issuing a secret report adequate to the scale of the state's powers?

I'd repeat the point that as digital technology, and the ability to enact surveillance through technology, expands its remit, those powers are increasing almost by the day.

In the UK we have a strange sleepy indifference to questions of surveillance and privacy. "The innocent have nothing to fear," says William Hague. But who gets to define who is innocent? Who gets to say what is contradictory to the "economic wellbeing" of the UK? If the innocent have nothing to fear, why is the state reading so many of our emails, and sucking up so much metadata from our phones and computers, under the umbrella of "sigint development"?

Police state

People misunderstand what a police state is. It isn't a country where the police strut around in jackboots; it's a country where the police can do anything they like. Similarly, a security state is one in which the security establishment can do anything it likes.

We are right on the verge of being an entirely new kind of human society, one involving an unprecedented penetration by the state into areas which have always been regarded as private. Do we agree to that? If we don't, this is the last chance to stop it happening. Our rulers will say what all rulers everywhere have always said: that their intentions are good, and we can trust them. They want that to be a sufficient guarantee.

My proposals

There's no need for us to advance any further down this dark road. Here are two specific proposals. The first is that the commissioners who supervise GCHQ include, alongside the senior judges who currently do the work, at least one or two public figures who are publicly known for their advocacy of human rights and government openness. The "circle of secrecy" needs to include some people who are known for not being all that keen on the idea of secrecy.

My second proposal is for a digital bill of rights. The most important proviso on the bill would be that digital surveillance must meet the same degree of explicit targeting as that used in interception of mail and landlines. No more "one end overseas" and "sigint development" loopholes to allow the mass interception of communications. There can be no default assumption that the state is allowed access to our digital life.

As the second most senior judge in the country, Lord Hoffmann, said in 2004 about a previous version of our anti-terrorism laws: "The real threat to the life of the nation, in the sense of a people living in accordance with its traditional laws and political values, comes not from terrorism but from laws like these. That is the true measure of what terrorism may achieve.""

John Lanchester in The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/03/edward-snowden-files-john-lanchester
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Oct 4, 2013 - 11:48am PT
the kings henchmen never had it so good
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
rSin... never underestimate the American equivalence of 'being right = WINNING'

We equate an election to WINNING. We want to back the WINNER. When our gal wins, well that makes us WINNERS. Just like when our pro football team buys another superbowl makes us WINNERS. And everyone on the other team? LOSERS.

Do you want to be a LOSER? If so? You're not AMERICAN. Because AMERICANS ARE WINNERS.

And I AM A WINNER.

Ergo, I WIN. So... if you have to surrender your liberty so that I may WIN?

I might even do a Mexican hat dance to celebrate my victory and your loss (LOSER!).

Except, well, I don't really see it that way. I guess I'm a loser because winning everything all the time is really not that important to me. I don't equate countries to a person, or a personality (Russia says this, Israel is that). I don't watch politics like its a spectator sport. I don't root for my team and boo and hiss at the opposition and personally I think those who do ARE F*#KING MORONS for allowing themselves to be sucked into the theater of it all. Politics IS NOT FOOTBALL.

And in wars REAL PEOPLE DIE. Womens, kids, old men and sh#t... dead. All so some asswipes in Des Moines can feel like they are WINNERS?

F*#k that.

Anyway, when a person decides to win at any cost? That's exactly what winning costs.

Who will save your soul?

DMT
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
amazing what dress they let you hang on no morals


the way i read it
people have to lose everything before they notice and act back

have their been any exceptions to that?
WBraun

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
All US judges including the Supreme Court are under continuous NSA surveillance for blackmail.

US Federal Judge John Roll was shot dead a few days after he issued major court ruling against Obama and US govt.

Previously, federal judges have had family members attacked and been threatened, but starting the actual killing of US Federal Judges was an important message to all US judges, helping convince US Chief Justice Roberts to rule in favour of Obamacare.

Bribing, extorting, intimidating US judges is at the very centre of Americans losing all their rights, but media deflect onto the less-important Obama or Bush or Congress.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 5, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 9, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
Maybe these people aren't so smart after all.

according to the Army Corps of Engineers (ACE), which is in charge of overseeing the data center's construction. ACE disagreed with the contractor and said the meltdowns are "not yet sufficiently understood." -

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/10/08/2-Billion-NSA-Spy-Center-Going-Flames


Anyone there own a copy of the NEC?





jghedge

climber
Oct 9, 2013 - 04:02pm PT


"What would you say is the single most shocking revelation that Snowden has leaked and why?"


We'd need to ask the Russians and Chinese. Doubtful, though, they'd answer.


WBraun

climber
Oct 9, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
Putinator just called me on the telephone and gave answer.

He said; "Do not pay attention to politards on supertopo"
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Oct 13, 2013 - 09:21pm PT


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/12/edward-snowden-nsa-surveillance-wikileaks-videos

The National Security Agency whistleblower, Edward Snowden, has said that the mass surveillance programmes used by the US to tap into phone and internet connections around the world is making people less safe.

In short video clips posted by the WikiLeaks website on Friday, Snowden said that the NSA's mass surveillance, which he disclosed before fleeing to Russia, "puts us at risk of coming into conflict with our own government".
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Oct 13, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
hear robert baer commenting on this

oct 13,


ianmasters.com


Is the Whole Snowden Affair a Textbook Russian Intelligence Operation?;


New York Times story that the CIA had suspicions that Edward Snowden had tried to access classified computer files in 2009, a report that on Friday the CIA denied, but did not refute.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Oct 13, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
. Since 9/11, 53 people have been killed by terrorists in the UK. Every one of those deaths is tragic. So is every one of the 26,805 deaths to have occurred on Britain's roads between 2002 and 2012 inclusive, an average of 6.67 deaths a day. Let's call that the SDRD, standard daily road deaths. The terrorist toll for 12 years comes to 0.0121 SDRD. This means that 12 years of terrorism has killed as many people in the UK as eight days on our roads.e

I stopped reading this garbage after the first paragraph.
I'm guessing the article didn't quantity the mall that was attacked in Kenya last week?
Or the many serious attacks going on in Iraq, India and Pakistan?
Or the attempts that have been stopped all over the world?

Or what terrorists would like to do here if they got even a sliver of chance?


Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Oct 13, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
So how is our hero settling in in Russia?
Has there been any arrests over this?
Has he exploded even one law that has been broken?
How about a conspiracy to monitor anyone illegally ?
Information used in a nefarious way?

Anything ?????
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 14, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Comon Riley are you blind? Turn off the TV man! There is still hope for you...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 24, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders after US official handed over contacts

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls

As long as it was only the European people who had their calls monitored, the authorities of European nations were not overly enthusiastic to protect anyone from the spying, but now that the top leaders see that they themselves have had their calls monitored by the NSA, they are starting to get the motivation to do something, even Merkel in Germany. Thank God!

Are American products still NSA-enhanced for spying? Are we stupid to buy American technology? American mobil phones? American PCs? Are American companies still deceiving us customers?

I still want to buy Microsoft Surface Pro - should I? Will Microsoft and the Surface Pro deceive me as a customer and give the NSA access to everything I do on the pc?

I've got an Acer stationary pc at the moment. Is the NSA already there? (I guess so)
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