risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 25, 2017 - 12:19am PT
Credit: Edward Snowden
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Oct 6, 2017 - 10:40am PT
Noam Chomsky on Edward Snowden - 5 minutes

kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Nov 16, 2017 - 09:50pm PT
Very interesting two part documentary by Cyril Tuschi, worth watching:

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2016/03/digital-dissidents-160323141254755.html

"Whistleblowers such as Daniel Ellsberg, Thomas Drake, William Binney, and Edward Snowden; and hackers and activists such as the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and the former British secret service agent Annie Machon, warn us about the complete surveillance of our society. "
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Nov 17, 2017 - 09:17am PT
While the surveillance per se is an invasive thing, the really insidious part is the selective enforcement of what they find. If we all are guilty of violating some law or other, then we all live in fear of being prosecuted when it strikes the fancy of those in power. It enables powerful people to have a legal shield and arms-length deniability for engaging in personal vendettas or underhanded means of preserving and consolidating their power. Itís a way of silencing adversaries and preventing the carriage of justice on larger issues, which erodes the quality of our democracy and society.

We see evidence of it now even in the private sector, where filthy rich men pay former Mossad agents to dig up dirt on their victims to keep them quiet.
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 17, 2017 - 09:23am PT
in the past far wiser legislators than we have presently always opposed any authorization of such powers because they understood what honeypots would be created and that the bad uses of such power would vastly outnumber the good ones
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 17, 2017 - 09:28am PT
So you would rather see airliners blown out of the sky rather than compromise your privacy fantasies?
You have no idea how many plots have been thwarted by our security people. I feel safer for it,
but I don't feel less private, especially as I am not plotting to do anything nefarious. I also have
a higher regard for the people doing this than you apparently.
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 17, 2017 - 09:51am PT
samuel adam's said it best...


If ye love the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Nov 17, 2017 - 09:56am PT
So you would rather see airliners blown out of the sky rather than compromise your privacy fantasies?

You have no idea to the level of which your privacy is already compromised. I'd say its a constant battle and we the people have a right to know how our own government is spying upon us. I'm a Global Entry guy so it's not like I'm unwilling to trade privacy for convenience and security. But I want to know when it's happening.

You have no idea how many plots have been thwarted by our security people.

Neither do you.

DMT
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Nov 17, 2017 - 10:36am PT
Reilly:
So you would rather see airliners blown out of the sky rather than compromise your privacy fantasies?
You have no idea how many plots have been thwarted by our security people.
Reilly, could you please provide a list of such plots?
I suspect that secret services are so shy with such disclosure because this list is really short.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 17, 2017 - 10:40am PT
Юроч, having enjoyed a moderate level security clearance at one time Iím here to tell you there is a phrase that explains why you Ďthinkí the list is short:

ĎItís on a need to know basis.í

And, FYI, you ainít on that list.
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 17, 2017 - 10:48am PT
Tacitus relates in the Annals, Book III.65, that Tiberius,
offended by the habitual sycophancy of the Senate, was reported to
have remarked in Greek on more than one occasion upon leaving the
Senate House, "Oh, men ready for slavery!" (Tacitus gives only the
Latin translation, "O homines ad servitutem paratos!") This same
sentiment appears earlier in the Annals, Book I.2, where Tacitus
himself observes that the condition of the Senatorial class following
the Civil War won by Augustus Caesar was such that, "the remaining
nobles, the readier they were to be slaves, were raised the higher by
wealth and promotion..." ("...ceteri nobilium, quanto quis servitio
promptior, opibus et honoribus extollerentur...")


Gore Vidal, interviewed by Doug Henwood
http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/VidalTranscript.html

"...Tiberius, who was a very brilliant man, and a patriot in his way.
When he became Emperor, the Senate passed a bill, assuring him that
any legislation that he sent them would be automatically accepted, and
become law. He sent back word and he said, "You're crazy. Suppose,
suppose the Emperor is mad, suppose he's ill, suppose there's a palace
coup and somebody else is sending things in his name? How can you be
so certain that what you're passing is really his, or should be
passed?" They sent it back: "Anything your Imperial Majesty sends us
is law for us." And Tiberius said, "How eager they are to be slaves.""
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Dec 5, 2017 - 07:30am PT
https://cryptome.org/A-Discussion-With-Cryptome.pdf
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:40am PT
On this, I agree with Reilly.

Why should the plots not be disclosed?

Because then still-unknown-plotters will know what things have been tried, and failed, and be searched for. We haven't had anyone try to smuggle explosives in their shoes after the fires, have we?

There is a tendency for relatively simple plotters to try the same things, thinking that they are being very original. They are not. Once those things are identified, they are generally easy to spot.

Relatively brilliant plotters are another matter, although they can fall into the same trap.

It is better that what is foiled is not disclosed.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Dec 5, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
The problem with "security through obscurity" is that you assume the folks you are trying to hide it from don't have access to the info. Like, oh say, the vulnerabilities that NSA teams were working on for hacking its targets.

Information is power, but it is too difficult to control the flow of it when humans are involved.

So, it is a very brittle model. Inexperienced software developers often try to develop proprietary security mechanisms that they think are brilliant... and the typical failure mode is that it gets little review from smarter and more experienced people, and as such there are grievous errors embedded in the solution that smarter people exploit. Far better to have more eyeballs involved, and rely on the motivation of personal desire for fame/recognition/career-promotion that causes white-hat security people to call out the errors.

Either make it secure for real by the standards of a big collection of smart experienced people, and out in the open for all to vet, or just bury an abscess that the truly bad guys know how to find and exploit. It is hubris to assume that the folks on your side are smarter than the folks on the other side.

If you just want to go for an 80/20 approach to solving the problem (i.e. make 20% effort to get 80% of the security coverage), then sure use obscurity and block the idiot criminals, but don't expect to stop the good ones too.
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