risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]


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Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 9, 2017 - 08:51pm PT
Curt, I'd go a step further: Wikileaks only seems to take actions that damages western democracies. We don't see anything from Russia, nothing from China or North Korea, all hotbeds of cyberattacks throughout the world.

Seems like an anarchist agenda to me.

Why don't they release Trumps income taxes: they don't see a benefit TO THEM to doing so.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Mar 10, 2017 - 08:00am PT
Curt, I'd go a step further: Wikileaks only seems to take actions that damages western democracies.

Its been previously stated that WikiLeaks is Julian Assange, virtually solo. Its doubtful he has a legion of moles in these western democracy governments.

When you see an objectionable billboard on the side of the road, its not the billboard's fault. Its those who paid and placed the advertisements.

The CIA Dump has to be an inside job? And aside from John Podesta's stupidity regarding passwords, that also seems like an inside job.

If the Russians got their hands on the CIA hacking toolkit would they tell anyone? Why?

Whether the CIA dump actually hurts U.S. spy capabilities is beyond our ability to know, it also seems to me. This is likely part of a long game strategy and the source might be friend, might be foe, might have US interests at heart, or not and might be friend or foe to Trump.

In other words, was it a tookkit or a foolkit?



Social climber
Southern Arizona
Mar 10, 2017 - 11:33am PT
DMT: . . . US interests at heart . . . .

And what ARE those? Is the U.S. the standard bearer for all things democratic, fair, equal, compassionate? Shall it see it as its mission to spread, maintain, protect those values to other countries? Or is it the same as many other countries (Russia included): self-preservation: creating a position to defend against different ideas, values, and loyalties; putting its citizens’ own welfare ahead of other people in the world?

It’s a bit ambiguous, isn’t it? Our math friends might want to employ game theory to tell us how we should proceed, but game theory assumes clear, somewhat unequivocal, and non-conflicting objectives.

We are a fragmented nation in so many ways. This happens to be one of democracy’s problems no matter where it shows up. In time, there develops a lack of unity, and a diminishment of intellectual and moral capabilities to deal with issues facing a democracy.

Visit Alexis de Toqueville’s, “Democracy in America” (1835). Wiki summarizes Toqueville’s treatise casually in the following manner:

According to Tocqueville, democracy had some unfavorable consequences: the tyranny of the majority over thought, a preoccupation with material goods, and isolated individuals. Democracy in America predicted the violence of party spirit and the judgment of the wise subordinated to the prejudices of the ignorant.

Of course, just who is ignorant and who is prejudiced may turn the interpretation from one side to another. (Ignorant of what?)
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Mar 10, 2017 - 12:03pm PT
DMT: . . . US interests at heart . . . .

And what ARE those?

Of course its ambiguous. Folks have been arguing about this since the days of loyalists vs rebels.

All I'm saying is - 'blame the wikileaks on Russia' or Trump... is most likely way too simpistic a view. I'd add like with most things at these high and deep government nation to nation levels and what have you, some semblance of the truth is probably decades out ie we'll never know for sure.


Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 10, 2017 - 04:25pm PT
+1 Dingus

Could be a "white hat" type person that wants the info out so all systems can be more secure to enforce a more idealistic balance of power between any government and private entities.

Could be a person that just wants to take down the biggest kid on the block.

Could be a few brave people acting with little support or safety net, and Wikileaks is a sort of rallying point for these "lone wolf" whistle-blowers.

Could be state players

Could the CIA itself as part of a trick to underplay what their capabilities really are, a sort of lulling the enemies into a false sense of security.

Who knows?

Blue Ridge Mts, Shenandoah River
Mar 11, 2017 - 05:47am PT
A bit of trhead drift: some background info on Assange via the hacktivist group Annonymous


Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2017 - 07:48am PT
Could also be just some pathetic soul with no life who sees this as his chance to be somebody.

Mountain climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 09:47pm PT
Cybersecurity for the People: How to Protect Your Privacy at a Protest


Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 22, 2017 - 07:47am PT
Thanks Kunlun, good timing for the March for Science today:



I think Neil deGrasse Tyson sums it up pretty well:
"Show me a Nation with a science-hostile government, and I'll show you a society with failing health, wealth, & security."

Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Apr 22, 2017 - 08:34am PT
Perfect timing with Cassini beginning its final act this morning....

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 22, 2017 - 10:17am PT
Very informative, interesting exchange between Gen M Hayden and Sam Harris on the waking up podcast this week. Eg, distinction between NSA and CIA, the necessity of espionage and intelligence, the constantly shifting, negotiated line bet privacy and security, and a bunch of other stuff (why Snowden should be prosecuted if he were captured or ever to return and the harm he's done).


Is government secrecy always illegitimate?

"Shame on us for giving them the opportunity..." -Hayden


PS There's this actor, Kurtwood Smith, who could play General Hayden to a t I bet.

Mountain climber
May 18, 2017 - 11:37pm PT
Risking her life, and now free.


Credit: xychelsea87
Delhi Dog

Good Question...
May 19, 2017 - 05:13am PT
whoa is that a real freckle?

speaking of people who share secrets...

and yeah I know it's cnn

hfcs, thanks for the link

away from the ground
May 19, 2017 - 10:32am PT
Is that the chick that Cosmic doesn't like?
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
May 19, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
Zero Hedge reports that Seth Rich, a DNC functionary, had been in contact with Wikileaks and is the likely source of the leaked DNC emails.


So far the MSM have been suppressing this story. It would invalidate their case that Russia was behind this. Also note, Julian Assange has said that it was not Russia.

Rich was murdered, shot in the back as he was walking home at night. This was officially attributed to robbery, but nothing was taken.


Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
May 19, 2017 - 02:43pm PT
Years ago, Bill Buckley and Gore Vidal debated the death penalty, with Buckley for, and Vidal against. Buckley made the point that if it deters even one murder, it's worth it. Of course, that is hard to prove one way on the other.

The same argument can be used for spying on Americans. If you gather lots of illegal data that pries into our personal lives, but then you happen to uncover a plot to blow up a huge bomb in Penn Station which would kill 200 people, then is it worth it?

Even ordinary surveillance footage in stores and malls has made it a lot easier to apprehend killers. So it is a two-edged sword.

Still, I think it is good that Assange exposed it.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 19, 2017 - 04:08pm PT
Yeah, what's a few Americans' lives worth when we're talking about protecting yer texts to yer mistress?

Trad climber
May 20, 2017 - 08:22am PT

Listen to this short interview of General Michael Hayden by Sam Harris. If 40 minutes is too long, skip 20, where Snowden became the subject of discussion.

Edit: oops, should have read up thread first.

Mountain climber
Jun 9, 2017 - 09:05am PT
Be careful about risking one's life by leaking to The Intercept:


Mountain climber
Sep 25, 2017 - 12:19am PT
Credit: Edward Snowden
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