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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
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I thought maybe the 5.7 flares got rerated 5.11!
That route was hard but 5.11 seems a bit much.
Is Mechrist Wes?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Seems like the consensus is that Ho Chi Min Trail is the real route to do on Middle Cathedral. The choss chimney finish of DNB doesnt seem to have a lot of appeal. Clint Cummins put that up but he's too modest to say so.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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People brought up in a gym don't want to do something 2,000ft long with "bad" climbing on it.
Bwahahhaha!
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah
Gym climbers should just stick to repelling the Nose ........ :-)
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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True, El Cap, but that semi-frequent rockfall has been happening a long time, as evidenced by the scree at the base of the northeast face. I had to dodge some baseball-sized rocks on Powell-Reed in 1972 and on Bircheff-Williams in 1973, as examples. I'm sure rocks were falling in 1983 as well, when the face was covered in climbers.
What I think changed is the reputation of the rock on the formation. Middle Cathedral remains my favorite formation -- both to look at and to climb on -- in the Valley, precisely because of all the micro (and not-so-micro) flakes and edges. More recently-minted climbers, however, seem to view its rock quality as suspect.
John
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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It's not the rock you're climbing on, it's the randomly generated rockfall from way up high. And that's with no one above! More than one person I know has sworn off the whole formation.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
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That's what mountains do, they slowly come apart and fall down.
Middle Cathedral is not the worst of the lot, but I don't want to get hit in the head either....
I've heard ancient legends of rocks falling off Trango, Fitzroy and El Cap too.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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I climbed the DNB in 1978 with a guy from Colorado (I think) called John Warren. John took quite a lot of time attempting the mantle but eventually pulled on the bolt. I followed and had a go, but not wanting to waste time also used the bolt. When I got to the belay John was rigging a rappel. I asked him what he was doing and he replied that we'd failed on the route and that we had to go down. I argued that I'd only a couple more days in the States before going back home and that I'd like to continue. The argument went on for what seemed a long time and eventually he said OK. Apart from the mantle it was the '4th class pitches' at the top that left an impression on me. We finally got to the top of the route at dusk but couldn't find the way off and so had to bivvy, as I remember under a feature aptly named Thirsty Spire. Luckily John had a box of matches and so we made a fire to keep us warm... The next day it was evident that the whole of Yosemite Valley had seen our fire...
Does anyone know John Warren, and if he's still about?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
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Don't know him, but that's a cool story!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Back in the early 'aughts, maybe 2001, Mister E almost got taken out in a rockfall that blistered the base right by the CPOF. Miraculously, nobody was killed, despite there being several parties in the zone when it came down. I'd done the route a few days earlier and almost trundled some giant boulders onto outselves on the descent and narrowly avoided getting hit with some small stuff while on route. Later that season was another ripper over there, and I believe the next spring another one. Another one last fall. Probably plenty of other instances in the time frame too.
That was about enough for me to swear off climbing on middle...or at least doing it on any kind of regular basis. Same deal with the Apron. I've done some days up there, but the last time I went was for Mr Natural and I said "after this one, no reason for me ever to come back here". And I haven't. I can get hard, bald face and slab, without the bowling alley, down here in Idyllwild.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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On our hike down from E Butt (in the dark) it sounded like someone was intentionally throwing basketball sized rocks at us... which they may have been.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I've only seen rock fall on Middle once, and I almost had my head caved in. It's more a problem of people knocking off lose stuff from above, avoid that and you're just as safe, as anywhere else in the Valley. IMHO
I'm not so sure, Coz. When we were on Bircheff-Williams, the rockfall was in the middle of the night (which shows how slothfully we were climbing), and it is unlikely that there was a party above us. When we were on Powell-Reed, the only other party on the rock was Largo and partner on Paradise Lost, and the rockfall came from high above, falling between his party and ours.
In fact, unless there's forest at the base of a cliff, it's a pretty safe assumption that addition to the talus and scree is an ongoing phenomenon.
John
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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I've always wanted to do this route, but am intimidated by it, primarily due to the purported runouts and sometimes iffy pro. Mixed reports on that stuff, but the scarier reports are the ones that stick in the mind.
Also got spooked watching and hearing this big rockfall come down in March of this year:
Seemed that parties on the the North Butt route would have had a good chance of dying that day. Not sure where it originated or if it might have come down parts of the DNB as well, but what I saw came down the west side of the buttress proper.
Always a roll of the dice with that stuff.
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Jim Pettigrew
Social climber
Crowley Lake, CA
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I think I did this route with Luke Freeman, sometime in the 70's. Eb's, nuts, and fixed pins! Don't recall any 5.11. 5.9 run outs though and iffy belays. It seemed a prize for us!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Yes, we discussed it on the linked thread.
Those photos are from 2009, so the fixed nut is probably still there.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I think the mind doesn't forget, when it's that scary!!
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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This thread is getting me psyched to go do it again ! Clint, do you have a visual topo of all of Ho Chi MIn - seems pretty useful what you just put up on the DNB
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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David,
Strangely, I didn't have a "photo overlay" of the Ho (specifically the part above where it branches right from the original aid line of the DNB).
Here's a new one:
All part of the old pursuit that Joel and I have done in the past -
"Pimping the Ho". :-)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2013 - 01:19am PT
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Ok Russ, the flaming died down.
Now where's that story?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!