Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
|
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
|
You're wrong Joe.
We stand up for people who are constantly attacked by dicks.
And you are always dick head toward Ron.
If you were like that towards me all time like you are to him I would have creamed your ass.
You wouldn't know WTF hit you.
We've warned you before and you are now being again.
Tone it down towards Ron.
Make your fuking points but quit being a sh!thead about it ......
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
|
Banned from Redstate.com?
Ha
That is a badge of honor
They banned my wife after two posts when she
proved them wrong with 3 credible link sources
what a joke
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
|
So where does the picking and choosing of who's eligible for constitutional rights end?
Rule of law and a fair trial is all anyone has. Especially if they're guilty.
I couldn't agree more! If we can selectively waive rights, then no one has rights? Right?
Who are we going to enable to determine if someone has rights or not?
Scary.
g
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
|
Jim, I believe that as these types of attacks become more and more the norm, new legislation will be adopted to cover this area.....we're already overdue for such.
Just so I'm clear, you are saying that giving terrorists who are U.S. citizens the rights of a U.S. citizen and punishing them isn't deterring enough terrorist attacks? And that capital punishment/harsher sentancing/waterboarding will 'make terrorists think twice' about attacking us?
Four terror attacks on US soil that are as big or larger than the Boston Marathon (Boston, 9/11, Timothy McVeigh and the '93 WTC). Of those, everyone who did it is dead or rotting in prison. I think our justice system is adequate for getting criminals off the streets.
The only way this argument would hold water as I can see is if 9/11 happened because of the lawful treatment of the '93 bombers. Or, that 9/11 might not have happened if we had waterboarded/electrocuted/roughed up the '93 terrorists.
Sounds... plausible? Sort of?
: /
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
|
citizen-turned-terrorist does that with their alleged acts
tadaaaa
:)
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
|
He does NOT have Miranda rights
got it?
there is a provision that denies him those rights and Obama ordered the justice department to DENY him any Miranda "rights"
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
|
Hmm what if somehow this guy once heard of the fifth amendment having recently become a citizen and simply shuts his piehole? No one would ever need to mirandize me if I were arrested. I know my rights. They would be stupid not to mirandize me as I would find it antagonistic and my natural predilection to assert my rights would simply go up about 5 more notches.
I really believe that it is better to let a terrorist free or suffer another bombing than put an innocent man in prison or commit torture. I believe this completely and deeply.
I am a risk-taker. Somehow I took the idea of give me liberty or give me death literally. It resonated in me the first time I heard it at an early age.
There is no chance this guy if guilty as it appears he is, will go free. With every miranda right and medical care and if the prosecutors wore pink suits and clown faces. while serving gin and tonics to the courtroom.
It really does matter that once you have captured a human being and they are at your mercy that you show the real strength of what is good by treating them as you would be treated. Give 3 squares and adequate clothing shelter and medical attention. Some physical mobility, and positive mental activity. it's not a lot but it is right and humane.
Given the best legal defense so that none will ever reasonably question the verdict.
This stuff seems so fundamental so much the core of what it means to be able to be proud of your self and your nation. It is more important for us than it is for the criminal.
Whithout these things there is no basis for pride in your country. There is nothing fundamentally good and decent about your nation. You are nothing special no better than a group of savage idiots lead by morons.
Anyways gott finsh packing.. am headed out for a few days to Lone Pine areas for some much anticipated spring climbing on the eastside.
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
|
Southside climbing in Woodfords canyon was stellar today!
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
|
I guess rights can only be waived for the guilty - before trial.
Hmmmmmm.
g
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:24pm PT
|
Norton, he does not have them presently, but he will get them. The question is, will we get the information we need before he gets those rights.
wrong
that issue has already been settled, as in the past, irreversible
The Boston Marathon bombing suspect will not be read his Miranda rights because the government is invoking a public safety exception, a U.S. Justice Department official says.
That official and a second person briefed on the investigation says Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, will be questioned by a special interrogation team for high-value suspects. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to disclose the information publicly.
The public safety exception permits law enforcement officials to engage in a limited and focused unwarned interrogation of a suspect and allows the government to introduce the statement as evidence in court.
The public safety exception is triggered when police officers have an objectively reasonable need to http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/04/20/boston-marathon-miranda-rights.html protect the police or the public from immediate danger. |
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
|
will we get the information we need before he gets those rights.
Depends on how many toenails he has left, etc.
I'm not pretending that in this day and age, regardless of legality, torture isn't going on.
But we have to 'pretend.'
So no, you shouldn't do that for information. But its going to happen anyway. So f*#k it. Tug on his 'lil piggies, just check their ID before you break out the pliers so we know which bearded brown dude is which.
edit - just after I type this see? They got him in a dark room with a special 'team.' Check the garbage bins for toes, this one'll never see the light of day.
Funny how things work out perfect sometimes.
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
|
Boston is doing this in their own way, no doubt about that. I can't recall a major city being shut down for an entire day while they look for one guy.
Kind of ironic too. You think of Lib Capital, that's about where you'd put it. But they've got their blood up, they'll shut down the city, suspend his rights, whatever. Get these animals off the streets. There's hope for America yet.
If they get something out of him, that saves other lives, simply cuz they don't read him his rights, I am all for it. The London Marathon is tomorrow. What if his terror cell has something planned?
Though the TV says he can't communicate, so it's moot.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
|
that any act of terrorism forfeits all rights. Terrorism defined as mass murder or mayhem, or attempted mass murder or mayhem.
Show me the jury's verdict FIRST!
Do you have any idea how wide you are opening the barn door on this one? Who decides if he's the perp? The prosecutor? Don't work for me.
Wanna waterboard blue jacket guy who was outed by the New York Post a few days ago?
Yeah. He did it!
Sheesh.
I have no sympathy for the 19 year old in custody. If he is responsible, may he rot in SuperMax. Then in hell.
I truly believe that we would be better served by an open trial with a jury of his peers than we would by sending him into the shadows.
My $0.02.
g
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
|
...sentence him to life reading ST.
Can't do that, Dean.
Blue Jacket Guy is a runner, not a climber.
Cruel & unusual and that sort of stuff.
Wouldn't be right.
g
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
|
Innocent until proven guilty, not tortured until the state has what they want.
Everyone is so willing to trust that the media and the Govt have this all correct. Remember the bombing during the Atlanta Olympics? Time showed that they were WAY off base there, but at the time "everyone" knew that Richard Jewell was guilty. In today's world, the government would have tortured him first and found the real perp later.
Is this guy guilty? Probably. But the last time I checked, "probably" did not mean you deserved to be tortured by the best interrogators the US has. I want the individuals who are guilty of this act punished. I just don't want start giving away more of our civil rights and due process in exchange for a possible short-term gain in public safety.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
|
^Better yet, Gene...sentence him to life reading ST.
As you know Dean I am against torture...
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
|
Locker, I am the LAST one who wants the guilty to get a f*#king mint on their pillow. I lost people on 9/11. These were people who meant something to me. Friends with numbers that were on my speed dial that will never be answered again. This isn't theoretical sh#t to me. I want the f*#kers who commit terrorism REMOVED!!
However, I do not want my kid growing up in a world where the government can selectively deny due process and civil rights. If that is the only way to be safe, it sounds to me like the cure is worse than the disease.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
|
No, Ron
the US CONGRESS, you know the ones WE all voted for?, including all the Repubs YOU vote for
those guys, NOT President Obama, voted and passed the Patriot Act
and they also voted yes to the Defense BIll
the President does not have the authority to vote on or pass laws
but you knew that
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
|
Ron, McCain, Graham...sore loser extremist, all.
Let justice run its course. Take your pills and shut up.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!